patrick.net

Eman says

while the wealthy, hardworking people will invest the same amount of limited working hours building an asset that will “catch” money for them

Yup. Stocks are great for this, but it's even better if you can create your own profitable business and retain ownership of it.

Eman says

What’s the difference between a poor, hardworking person versus a wealthy, hardworking person?

The difference is in HOW they ‘catch’ money.

Yes, in Total Quality Management classes they call it "doing the right things, the right way" or "doing the right things, right"

I've seen this with a 21 year old in my neighborhood who works a service job for around $16 an hour and shares a 3 bedroom townhome with 2 others for a monthly rent of $2100 and utility costs about $300 (electricity, internet, water/sewer).

He is very smart with his money such as saving it in S&P 500, and doesn't piss it away. I think he bought Fidelity's Bitcoin ETF also.

Money can be made from money so I agree as far as time value of money and compound interest. Google stock seems to be appreciating at least 15% a year based on earnings growth about 20% a year.

Earn extra money like taking surveys on websites listed on Rat Race Rebellion or Work at Home Job Queen. Save that money in a Roth IRA.

You can earn about $8 an hour working surveys and other tasks at home watching TV. You could work 2 hours a day while watching TV.

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Eman, what was your major and where did you graduate ? I am guessing electrical engineering and San Jose State University.

So you quit your engineering job to be a full time landlord ?

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clambo says

Of all the females I have known, just a few have any idea what they are doing with money.

I'm sure it's because women still see men as an asset. Women are the spiders that spin a web to catch men.

My daughter visited us yesterday. She's 25 and turned down an opportunity in a better career field. She actually said that her boyfriend is going to make lots of money so she's not worried. He isn't going to make lots of money based on his education. Maybe by entrepreneurship but not by his college degree. I just shake my head. What can I do?

NuttBoxer says

I think you're more on the poor people deserve what they get angle though right?

The bias of economic class stasis. Yes, inflation hurts the lower earners more, always has. But in the USA, you can move up through experience, hard work, and yes, earning a practical degree. And the bite of rising prices should provide motivation to do so.

If I were to 'do it' again, I'd get a job with the State of Massachusetts, not to make a fortune but to 'make a living' capped at 40 hrs per week. In other words, unlike much of the corporate world, the standard 45-60+ hr work week isn't required for a State a/o union job.

Then, I'd use the rest of my time to do algorithmic trading and thus, build my wealth w/o needing a corporate job & its so-called retirement perks like restricted stock, etc, while killing myself 5 to 6 days per week.

GNL says

I'm sure it's because women still see men as an asset. Women are the spiders that spin a web to catch men.

They really do not have a choice, as they make the babies and human children have a long childhood. There are a few women that do not mind being a single mom, but that is the exception.

AD says

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Eman, what was your major and where did you graduate ? I am guessing electrical engineering and San Jose State University.

So you quit your engineering job to be a full time landlord ?

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I graduated from SJSU a BSCE and a MSCE. I designed high rise buildings, bridges, etc… in my previous life.

It’s not that easy to quit my job and be a full-time landlord with nose bleeding expensive real estate in the Bay Area. In fact, it’s practically impossible to many here. I analyzed data for almost a decade to make sense of it, but it never made sense until the housing crash in late 2000’s.

In 2009, I looked at the data and said this is it. This is an opportunity once in a lifetime. I told wife’s parents and siblings of my plan. They said I was crazy. I told my wife to let me try this for a few years. If I didn’t make it, I could always get another job. If I made it, we would be set. She said “I think you’ll do well. Go for it.” Now, her siblings said quitting my job was the best decision for “the family” as a few of them also benefited from the housing crash.

I didn’t have much money to start with other than a pocket full of dreams. I bought some properties using credit cards (0% interest for 12-18 months with 3% balance transfer fees), HELOC, borrowed private money and bank’s money. I also cashed out my IRA over a period of 4 years. I partnered, bought and financed 6 properties with an individual I met on Patnet due to my lack of credit and resources. He reached out, asked and I gave it a try. Patrick knows him. We had lunch with Patrick too.

I was content with what I had acquired in 2013. Then someone gave my name to a High Net Worth (HNW) individual in Palo Alto. I shared what I was doing with him. He said it was not “scalable”. He wanted something that could scale so we gave apartment building a try.

Due to my limited resource, I told him we had to syndicate. He agreed. We syndicated a couple deals and ran into one difficult investor. My HNW partner said no more investors. She was difficult due to the lack of knowledge but wanted to invest in real estate. She’s been a good friend since. Always reached out whenever she needed a second opinion.

I gradually sold my earlier purchases and rolled the winnings into apartment buildings in the last decade for higher cash flow and equity gains.

Look at it this way, 3% gain on $30M assets = $900k vs $3M assets = $90k. Annual principal pay down = $300k vs $30k. If you buy assets at 70 cents on the dollar, you have $9M of built-in equity. Then you’re essentially playing with house money.

If you give a cut of the profits to the handyman, general contractor, landscaper, cleaning person and the property manager, they will handle everything. You will have a lot of free time.

Rin says

If I were to 'do it' again, I'd get a job with the State of Massachusetts, not to make a fortune but to 'make a living' capped at 40 hrs per week. In other words, unlike much of the corporate world, the standard 45-60+ hr work week isn't required for a State a/o union job.

Then, I'd use the rest of my time to do algorithmic trading and thus, build my wealth w/o needing a corporate job & its so-called retirement perks like restricted stock, etc, while killing myself 5 to 6 days per week.

@Rin,

In 2001, I was offered a job to work for the Water District. The guy told me to join him. He was going to retire in 2006 and I would be the principal. I turned it down as I knew I wanted to own my own firm. Fast forward to 2007-2008, there were moments I asked myself what would my life be like had I taken that offer? Now, no regrets.

Life is truly a box of chocolates, ……

Eman says

Rin says

If I were to 'do it' again, I'd get a job with the State of Massachusetts, not to make a fortune but to 'make a living' capped at 40 hrs per week. In other words, unlike much of the corporate world, the standard 45-60+ hr work week isn't required for a State a/o union job.

Then, I'd use the rest of my time to do algorithmic trading and thus, build my wealth w/o needing a corporate job & its so-called retirement perks like restricted stock, etc, while killing myself 5 to 6 days per week.

Rin,

In 2001, I was offered a job to work for the Water District. The guy told me to join him. He was going to retire in 2006 and I would be the principal. I turned it down as I knew I wanted to own my own firm. Fast forward to 2007-2008, there were moments I asked myself what would my life be like had I taken that offer? Now, no regrets.

Life is truly a box of chocolates, ……

Well, perhaps it's not quite that but there are cyclical themes. I'd started my hedge fund with a few friend a dozen years ago, after being a 65-80 hr per week workaholic in IT and biotech. And yeah, that move was a payoff, however, I'm in my mid-40s and don't feel so energetic as before.

Had I'd taken that job with the State of Mass, it would have been rather easy to do my trading on the side, FYI, algo trading wasn't invented in 2020, it's been around since the 90s though the average Joe didn't know about it back then, and then, I would have had an easy life, for much of my adulthood.

In other words, one can work a union/State job and have a business on the side. It's not all one or the other.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Yes, inflation hurts the lower earners more, always has. But in the USA, you can move up through experience, hard work, and yes, earning a practical degree. And the bite of rising prices should provide motivation to do so.

You assume an objective system with zero free market suppression/collusion/manipulation. Now despite those hurdles, there are still people who manage to carve out a decent living for themselves. But to ignore the inherent corruption and bias in a central banking system, is to acquiesce to your own destruction. And ignore the lower rungs getting trampled in the process.

Rising prices just remind me that I need to leave a corrupt system, and take part in it's demolition whenever possible.

HeadSet says

GNL says

I'm sure it's because women still see men as an asset. Women are the spiders that spin a web to catch men.

They really do not have a choice, as they make the babies and human children have a long childhood. There are a few women that do not mind being a single mom, but that is the exception.

Disagree on the possibilities/choice. Once the kids are old enough to behave, which used to be by age 3 at the latest before the leftoids started messing with strict and structured parenting, it is fairly easy to get a part time wfh job, or sell stuff online, which will also gives their brains some stimulatuon besides child rearing. Fact is most womyn these days are lazy and unfit, addicted to social media and are looking for men to provide for them while they do a half ass job at parenting and housework at best or refuse to have children at all. There's a reason babysitters make $25/hr minimum these days

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

NuttBoxer says

I think you're more on the poor people deserve what they get angle though right?

The bias of economic class stasis. Yes, inflation hurts the lower earners more, always has. But in the USA, you can move up through experience, hard work, and yes, earning a practical degree. And the bite of rising prices should provide motivation to do so.

You're excusing the rapaciousness of a shitty government + fiat?

Rin says

If I were to 'do it' again, I'd get a job with the State of Massachusetts, not to make a fortune but to 'make a living' capped at 40 hrs per week. In other words, unlike much of the corporate world, the standard 45-60+ hr work week isn't required for a State a/o union job.

Then, I'd use the rest of my time to do algorithmic trading and thus, build my wealth w/o needing a corporate job & its so-called retirement perks like restricted stock, etc, while killing myself 5 to 6 days per week.

Yep, a good government job is worth it's weight in gold. A no stress, pensioned and 40 hour government job has many benefits. I cannot stand any government worker. Sorry but, imo, they are the blood sucking class.

HeadSet says

GNL says

I'm sure it's because women still see men as an asset. Women are the spiders that spin a web to catch men.

They really do not have a choice, as they make the babies and human children have a long childhood. There are a few women that do not mind being a single mom, but that is the exception.

It's just not like that any more. Women (actually the family unit) have become completely exploited. There are very few that can raise a family without 2 incomes. Not only 2 incomes but increasingly 2 GOOD incomes. At least that's what I see around me.

GNL says

Rin says

If I were to 'do it' again, I'd get a job with the State of Massachusetts, not to make a fortune but to 'make a living' capped at 40 hrs per week. In other words, unlike much of the corporate world, the standard 45-60+ hr work week isn't required for a State a/o union job.

Then, I'd use the rest of my time to do algorithmic trading and thus, build my wealth w/o needing a corporate job & its so-called retirement perks like restricted stock, etc, while killing myself 5 to 6 days per week.

Yep, a good government job is worth it's weight in gold. A no stress, pensioned and 40 hour government job has many benefits. I cannot stand any government worker. Sorry but, imo, they are the blood sucking class.

my tenants are government employees, working for school district. nice hard working people, but bad credit. average income. seem like typical everyday americans. so far never late on payments.

Eman says

I graduated from SJSU a BSCE and a MSCE. I designed high rise buildings, bridges, etc… in my previous life.

It’s not that easy to quit my job and be a full-time landlord with nose bleeding expensive real estate in the Bay Area. In fact, it’s practically impossible to many here. I analyzed data for almost a decade to make sense of it, but it never made sense until the housing crash in late 2000’s.

You kind of like me whereas I have a PE and worked facilities engineering. Before that I graduated from same university as Patrick but I think Patrick was computer engineering (with Larry Page) and I was dual major (mechanical and industrial engineering). I worked mechanical integrity mostly,

You know home building code and maintenance.

You played your cards well and earned the winnings.
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DON'T GO TO COLLEGE

Unless it's Engineering, Nursing, Accounting, etc.

At 17/18, get a trade. With a few years experience, you do side jobs until the side jobs turn into working for yourself, then you have so much work you hire people.

When most 21-22 year olds have $80k in debt and a degree that gets them an extra couple of bucks/hour doing White Collar bullshit, you'll have made $100k easy and long since paid off the $6-15k of trade school debt.

GNL says

HeadSet says

GNL says

I'm sure it's because women still see men as an asset. Women are the spiders that spin a web to catch men.

They really do not have a choice, as they make the babies and human children have a long childhood. There are a few women that do not mind being a single mom, but that is the exception.

It's just not like that any more. Women (actually the family unit) have become completely exploited. There are very few that can raise a family without 2 incomes. Not only 2 incomes but increasingly 2 GOOD incomes. At least that's what I see around me.

You are kinda making my point.

AmericanKulak says

DON'T GO TO COLLEGE

Unless it's Engineering, Nursing, Accounting, etc.

At 17/18, get a trade. With a few years experience, you do side jobs until the side jobs turn into working for yourself, then you have so much work you hire people.

When most 21-22 year olds have $80k in debt and a degree that gets them an extra couple of bucks/hour doing White Collar bullshit, you'll have made $100k easy and long since paid off the $6-15k of trade school debt.

I previously told my son this (he's 15) a few years ago. I think it worked like reverse psychology - now he's busting his ass to get good enough grades for college. Go figure.

I should have done trades. I had a near-photographic memory. I could have memorized the entire electrical or plumbing code and just stand around quoting regs to the guys. That probably wouldn't have ended well.

College used to be a two-fer for guys - get a marketable degree, and wallow in "high quality" coed pussy until you got it out of your system. Nowadays, no pussy, bullshit majors. Yeah, with trades you just get the occasional MILF or random cold approach, unless family business dynamics can elevate your SMV status (e.g. courting the boss's daughter with his permission).

GNL says

Rin says

If I were to 'do it' again, I'd get a job with the State of Massachusetts, not to make a fortune but to 'make a living' capped at 40 hrs per week. In other words, unlike much of the corporate world, the standard 45-60+ hr work week isn't required for a State a/o union job.

Then, I'd use the rest of my time to do algorithmic trading and thus, build my wealth w/o needing a corporate job & its so-called retirement perks like restricted stock, etc, while killing myself 5 to 6 days per week.

Yep, a good government job is worth it's weight in gold. A no stress, pensioned and 40 hour government job has many benefits. I cannot stand any government worker. Sorry but, imo, they are the blood sucking class.

It’s huge. For anyone who is not a go getter, getting a government job is a fantastic deal. Wife’s brothers will retire in 5 and 7 years at the age of 50. They’ll be making over $200k then. 27 years at 3% PERS = 81% of the salary for the rest of their lives with annual COLA. That’s over $5M pension package assuming they’ll live till 80.

As mentioned above, there were times I thought about my previous job offer from the Water District during the darkest moments. Fortunately, it has worked out with real estate so there are no regrets.

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its tough to make it in Biden's America ... it use to be a 15% poverty rate ... Canada's rate is 11.6% .... Brazil and Bulgaria are each at about 26.5% ..

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Someone is using the same trick I used during the housing crash. I had 4 CC at $20-$27k limit each.

Deposited $40k in the joint account. Bought the condo for $150k with 25% down and financed 75% with wife’s credit. I didn’t have a job. Borrowing was extremely difficult for self-employed people back then too.

After 6 months of seasoning, cash-out refinance, payoff the first loan and payoff the CC with the excess proceeds. Rinse and repeat a couple deals each year. Then a Patnet member came into my life, and I was able to do 4-5 deals each year. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

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Yeah Eman, I remember being able to buy I series savings bonds with credit cards. Use the credit card that had 1.5% cash back to buy the bonds online.

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Eman says

Someone is using the same trick I used during the housing crash. I had 4 CC at $20-$27k limit each.

Deposited $40k in the joint account. Bought the condo for $150k with 25% down and financed 75% with wife’s credit. I didn’t have a job. Borrowing was extremely difficult for self-employed people back then too.

After 6 months of seasoning, cash-out refinance, payoff the first loan and payoff the CC with the excess proceeds. Rinse and repeat a couple deals each year. Then a Patnet member came into my life, and I was able to do 4-5 deals each year. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

that was a good time to buy. in retrospect once in a lifetime opportunity.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

that was a good time to buy. in retrospect once in a lifetime opportunity.

It definitely was. Looks like the big real estate crash this time is the office building sector and potentially retail buildings. Multifamily will also be in trouble if rent drops significantly IMO. I’m not familiar with the warehouse and industrial sectors.

The whole economy seems fragile…to me. It’s like a house of cards that is waiting for the first crack to collapse. I told my biz partner to hunker down for the next couple years. No reason to make any big moves. He agreed. 😰

What is the name of this credit card and is this deal still offered?

Haven't seen anything below 4% for months now. Many are 5%. The last 3%er supercheck I cashed in mid last year. During the zirp years there were even a few 0%ers. I doubt you can get an offer with less than 4% fee these days

Patrick says

What is the name of this credit card and is this deal still offered?

Someone mentioned MBNA. I haven’t gotten a promotion like this for a while. Got it all the time during ZIRP years.

I borrowed the CC money. Put it in our joint account. I took the credit hit. Wife used it for the 25% down payment and financed 75% from the bank. Rented out the condo. Seasoned it for 6 months as required by banks during the GFC. Then did a cash out refinance and paid off both loans. Rinse and repeat. I got 18 rentals in 3.5 years. 6 were with one of the Patnet members. Those were the years.

mell says

Haven't seen anything below 4% for months now. Many are 5%. The last 3%er supercheck I cashed in mid last year. During the zirp years there were even a few 0%ers. I doubt you can get am offer with less than 4% fee these days

A local Credit Union here has made an offer to convert any CDs on hand to a one year 5% with no penalty for early termination of the converted CDs. That is. if I have a 3.5% CD with them that still has months left on the term, they will close it without early termination penalty and put the proceeds into a new one year 5% CD. It would seem like this is a money losing proposition for the Credit Union, unless they see rates going up in the near future.

HeadSet says

It would seem like this is a money losing proposition for the Credit Union, unless they see rates going up in the near future.

Interesting.

Got a similar offer from my CU, but it’s only for kids and new accounts. They offered 5.5% interest for the savings. Opened new accounts for our daughter yesterday, and they gave her $50 for opening a savings and $25 for opening the checking. I hope this will encourage her to put the money she has in her savings account. Will find out.

Eman says

Got a similar offer from my CU, but it’s only for kids and new accounts. They offered 5.5% interest for the savings.

Nice Eman. Better than most major brokerages like Fidelity offering 5% for a money market account.

Yeah, teach the daughter about compound interest and time value of money versus fiat currency inflation.

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stereotomy says

College used to be a two-fer for guys - get a marketable degree, and wallow in "high quality" coed pussy until you got it out of your system. Nowadays, no pussy, bullshit majors. Yeah, with trades you just get the occasional MILF or random cold approach, unless family business dynamics can elevate your SMV status (e.g. courting the boss's daughter with his permission).

Agreed. Sad thing is that woman are like "I doan wan' no dusty man", when a 35 year old "Dusty Man" is probably making $100k or much more if he has a few years of his own business. Vehicles, Tools, etc. all write offs. In non-California money. More if CA.

stereotomy says

I previously told my son this (he's 15) a few years ago. I think it worked like reverse psychology - now he's busting his ass to get good enough grades for college. Go figure.

Mine is only 10, but once he found out a locksmith gets $60 just to show up, he now prices it out as a video game. Got him a locksmith practice kit, he's getting good with the low end masterlocks. Gonna do some door replacements and he's going to be installing the levers himself. Practice makes perfect. They have apps now for licensed locksmiths to do lockouts on the newer cars. You pay a monthly fee & a few bucks per car, and it auto unlocks the vehicle from your smartphone. Still $60 to show up and (bare minimum) $80 to unlock the car!

HeadSet says

mell says

Haven't seen anything below 4% for months now. Many are 5%. The last 3%er supercheck I cashed in mid last year. During the zirp years there were even a few 0%ers. I doubt you can get am offer with less than 4% fee these days

A local Credit Union here has made an offer to convert any CDs on hand to a one year 5% with no penalty for early termination of the converted CDs. That is. if I have a 3.5% CD with them that still has months left on the term, they will close it without early termination penalty and put the proceeds into a new one year 5% CD. It would seem like this is a money losing proposition for the Credit Union, unless they see rates going up in the near future.

Wondering what the terms of touching the money are. If they can use the money as long as it is in your CD with interest at maturity they will benefit from a higher (sweep) cash position. But no expert in this, never took a CD, I just put my money into my stock trading. Been averaging ~20-30% yearly for the past decade, so sticking with it. Requires daytrading though in addition to buy and hold and is easily a 2nd (part time) job, so there are always tradeoffs.

mell says

If they can use the money as long as it is in your CD with interest at maturity they will benefit from a higher (sweep) cash position.

The interest is paid monthly but there are penalties for withdrawing before the one year term is up.

https://x.com/darrelltalksfi/status/1765435672507384019?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

There’s a $10k cap on the savings account @ 5.5% interest.

Came across this picture on X. It definitely belongs in this thread.

Some good wisdoms in this X thread.



https://x.com/qcompounding/status/1766457382341656890?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q