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China's economy is showing signs of serious trouble — and the problems are still mounting.


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2023 Aug 20, 3:20pm   740 views  14 comments

by Al_Sharpton_for_President   ➕follow (5)   💰tip   ignore  

China's post-pandemic rebound hasn't materialized and it faces mounting economic obstacles.

Beijing is grappling with declining trade and foreign investment, a shaky housing market, and deflation.

Experts say most of China's issues are self-inflicted, and warn that policies must change to improve confidence.

The world's second-largest economy isn't growing, producing, or trading as much as it usually does.

The pandemic rebound that China and the rest of the world were anticipating has yet to materialize, and official data suggests there's a long road ahead before the economy is back on its feet.

China's National Bureau of Statistics announced Wednesday that consumer prices dropped annually in July for the first time in two years, dipping 0.3%, just slightly better than median estimates for a 0.4% decrease.

The People's Bank of China is now facing the opposite problem of the Federal Reserve, which has tightened policy for 18 months in a bid to tame soaring prices. Deflation — the trend of prices falling throughout the economy — presents a particularly dangerous trajectory for China, which carries a massive amount of debt.

"Deflation means the real value of debt goes up," David Dollar, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute's China center, told Insider. "High inflation we know is bad, but it does help manage debt burdens over time. Deflation does the opposite."

Bloomberg estimates total household, business, and government debt at about 282% of annual economic output.

The latest figures add to the anxiety that's already been swirling about what growth could look like for the rest of the year, and JPMorgan strategists cautioned that China risks a 1990s-style "Japanification" if policymakers don't address the housing market, financial imbalances, and aging demographics.

Officials in Beijing have urged experts not to portray data unfavorably, according to the Financial Times, asking economists to "interpret bad news from a positive light."

The numbers make this difficult:

Year-to-date, China's exports are down 5% compared to last year, while imports have dipped 7.6%
Manufacturing activity has contracted for four straight months
July exports declined at the sharpest rate in three years, at 14.5% annually
"Before the pandemic, China was growing at about 6%, and now it's struggling to recover," Dollar said. "Consumption really didn't hold up coming out of the lockdown. The main components of GDP on the demand side — consumption, investment, net exports — they all have serious problems right now."

Politicization of the economy
Increasingly, China's US-led Western trade partners have turned elsewhere. Global demand for Chinese goods has cooled, even as Russia ramps up trade with Asia amid its war in Ukraine.

The US Census Bureau reported Chinese exports to the US dropped 23.7% in June, hitting a six-month low of $42.7 billion. That reflects both the Biden Administration's "de-risking efforts," as well as a general pullback in spending as central banks around the world raise interest rates.

Near-shoring trends have also picked up since the pandemic. Mexico, for example, has emerged as America's new biggest trade partner, blowing past China with US bilateral trade totaling $263 billion through the first four months of the year.

Dexter Roberts, author of "The Myth of Chinese Capitalism" and a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, told Insider that much of Beijing's troubles stem from its politicization of its economy.

Embedding Communist Party members in corporations and prioritizing state-run firms, he said, has dragged on domestic productivity, spooked the private sector, and made the country less attractive for foreign investment.

"A lot of companies now feel China isn't the market of the future," Roberts said.

To that point, China's foreign investment gauge plummeted to a 25-year low in the second quarter.

A shaky property market
Most of China's economic troubles tie directly into its property market.

China was able to skirt deflation in 2009 and 2012 on the heels of the global financial crisis, but today's housing market complicates policymakers' current battle.

Notwithstanding recent price declines, property values have appreciated dramatically since 2009, and fiscal stimulus measures may not have the same impact as before. China's allowed developers to over-build, and now the inventory glut has crippled major developers.

Last week, Country Garden Holdings — once China's largest developer by sales — failed to make millions of dollars' worth of coupon payments on its bonds, and it anticipates reporting enormous first-half losses.

Similarly in July, Chinese developer Evergrande, which made headlines in 2021 with a massive debt default, recorded a two-year $81 billion loss.

Real estate accounts for about one-fifth of the country's economy, and the sector's headwinds include hefty debt and weak demand from homebuyers. Home transaction volumes across 330 cities in China cratered 19.2% year-over-year in June, according to a Beike Research Institute study, and values have dropped 23.4%.

The slump helps explain China's weak second-quarter GDP, which came in lower than expected at 6.3%.

"Housing prices are going down, so people aren't making purchases," Roberts said. "So much of people's wealth is tied up in the property sector, so when they see values go down, they decide to save for the future and not spend. The Chinese government won't be able to lift the property sector without that confidence."

The long tail of China's one-child policy
Even if Beijing could somehow remedy its other issues, years of a one-child policy may have long ago crippled its economy for decades.

In 2022, the population shrank for the first time since 1961, and the consulting firm Terry Group said the country is on pace to lose nearly half its population by 2100.

But it's not just population decline that weakens China. It's the climbing proportion of elderly people.

In 1990, 5% of Chinese people were 65 or older. That's at 14% today, and could surge to 30% by 2050, per Terry Group. By their estimate, China could lose an average of 7 million working-age adults each year by the next decade.

Already, working-age couples have to support aging parents, education costs for children are climbing, and confidence in the economy is low.

For China to have a shot at improving demographic conditions, experts say Beijing will have to unwind its long-standing household registration system. The policy, which dates back to the 1950s, makes rural-to-urban migration unfavorable and difficult, as it ties social welfare benefits to where people are born.

Roughly a quarter of China's population works in agriculture — well above the 3% mark in the US — and that presents its own productivity limitations.

"I'm skeptical they'll do it, but if Beijing did away with household registration, it would mean a large portion of the Chinese population that's treated as second-class citizens would start to spend more, have more confidence in the future, and drive more productivity across the economy," Roberts said.

Rocky decade ahead
China's laundry list of issues point to a rocky decade ahead.

From an unstable, debt-ridden property market to anti-business policies and demographic issues, Beijing has plenty to tackle if it hopes to match the same growth as decades past.

Geopolitical hurdles involving the US, Russia, and other trade partners present further headaches for President Xi Jinping, but experts say the focus should be on domestic issues.

For Dollar, he expects China to eke out 5% growth this year, as Beijing forecasts, but without financial or demographic reforms, growth could hover closer to 3% for the next decade.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-economy-deflation-markets-property-real-estate-housing-beijing-2023-8?op=1



Comments 1 - 14 of 14        Search these comments

1   HeadSet   2023 Aug 20, 3:24pm  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

For Dollar, he expects China to eke out 5% growth this year, as Beijing forecasts, but without financial or demographic reforms, growth could hover closer to 3% for the next decade.

Nothing at all wrong with 3% growth. What's the problem?
2   AD   2023 Aug 20, 3:39pm  

Who owns the debt ? If it is the citizens and/or Chicom / state owned companies like banks, then it does not matter.

Its not like the China sovereign debt holders can legally petition or even protest to get paid 100% face value of the note.

When the citizens are subjects and the companies are owned by the Chinese Communist Party (Chicoms) then it does not matter.

This just means the authoritarian Chicoms can pay less or none without any real consequences; it may just mean its subjects (or citizens)
have to work harder and with a reduced quality of life.

You have a country that is essentially 95% of the same ethnicity / race, so its not going to be hard to maintain cohesion.

Western rules or standards cannot be applied to China in regards to this.
.



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3   AD   2023 Aug 20, 3:41pm  

HeadSet says

For Dollar, he expects China to eke out 5% growth this year, as Beijing forecasts, but without financial or demographic reforms, growth could hover closer to 3% for the next decade.


3% growth is actually good by Western standards. Also consider China's population growth rate has significantly decreased, so relative to this, a 3% rate is desirable.

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4   AD   2023 Aug 20, 3:42pm  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Year-to-date, China's exports are down 5% compared to last year, while imports have dipped 7.6%


This is due to the baseline effect. The baseline is 2022 when there was still a lot of retail activity at Walmart, Best Buy, etc.

Look at the trucking recession occurring right now.

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5   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2023 Aug 20, 4:06pm  

Yup. Rapid demographic collapse is a real bitch.

Peter Zeihan predicted this.
6   AD   2023 Aug 20, 6:10pm  

Trollhole says

Yup. Rapid demographic collapse is a real bitch.

Peter Zeihan predicted this.


Yes, as far as perhaps GDP growth. But how does this translate to standard of living or quality of life such as in China ?

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7   Misc   2023 Aug 20, 10:35pm  

Last time China was in this position, it simply devalued its currency by about 33%.

Made manufacturing in China much better than the alternatives.

Why do you think that every right minded Chinese person wants to get their capital out of China?

Sure San Francisco real estate is over valued, but compared to Chinese assets....well...
8   richwicks   2023 Aug 21, 12:25am  

Misc says


Sure San Francisco real estate is over valued, but compared to Chinese assets....well...


The problem here, is that what do we produce that you want at this point? Jobs here... Why do we need people here for tech?

Need a faster computer? No you don't. I don't. I'm an engineer. You might need a better operating system, Microsoft intentionally slows down the system to make your laptop or desktop "slow". This is easily fixed by a re-install, but after that, it happens more quickly due to updates. I just moved to Linux, 30 years ago. They've been doing this for ages.

Need help trying out Linux? Ping me. You can run it off a USB drive, you do NOT need to install, but you can experience it. 99% of people use their computer just to browse the web anyhow. If you don't install, everything you do is temporary, after a reboot, you're right back to square one. All you need to do is boot off from USB, and that very often requires you to fuck around with BIOS to select boot order. My own machine won't reboot unless I stop the bootup sequence, and select the right device. I'm been amazingly lazy in fixing that when I come to think of it..

Anybody can use Linux at this point. It's a mature operating system, it just has a reputation for nerds and engineers (i.e. professional nerds). You have a disgusting amount of power, but it's all protected by root. You don't need to understand or use this power. You can do bizarre things with this OS. I have a network mount to New Hampshire, and I'm in California - this means I can read the files from that system, like they are local - conditional on the speed of course of the internet connection. You might be like "why would I want to do this??", well, I can copy a file from my local machine to that one, and it's just copying a file and it's accessible 2000 miles away, instantly.
9   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2023 Aug 21, 1:39am  

ad says

Yes, as far as perhaps GDP growth. But how does this translate to standard of living or quality of life such as in China ?


Youth unemployment is in the double digits. Which is really bad given China's demographic crisis.The brats don't want to work in factories like their parents did.

And despite all the ghost cities built, housing is unaffordable too.

But the main damage for now is that China is set up to operate in a continuous, high GDP growth boom. Has been for 40 years. Now it is coming to a crashing stop.
10   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2023 Aug 21, 3:47am  

China halts release of youth unemployment data

China has decided to halt the release of youth unemployment figures, a month after data showed they reached a record high.

“The economy and society are constantly developing and changing. Statistical work needs continuous improvement”, Fu Linghui, a National Bureau of Statistics spokesman, told a news conference in Beijing, according to the BBC.

The unemployment rate in urban areas reached a record 21.3% for 16-to-24-year-olds in June.

“Chinese statistics often disappear or are revamped when they show undesirable outcomes,” said Chris Low, chief economist at FHN Financial.

For the country as a whole, the unemployment rate in July was 5.3%, up by a tenth, data that was released alongside figures showing a slowdown in retail sales and industrial production growth.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-halts-release-of-youth-unemployment-data-d836a298
11   Misc   2023 Aug 21, 3:53am  

I'm sure glad our government doesn't stop reporting un-flattering statistics.
12   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2023 Aug 21, 4:01am  

ad says

You have a country that is essentially 95% of the same ethnicity / race, so its not going to be hard to maintain cohesion.









13   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2023 Aug 21, 5:06am  

ad says

You have a country that is essentially 95% of the same ethnicity / race, so its not going to be hard to maintain cohesion.


They have a low trust society, unlike the Japanese.
14   clambo   2023 Aug 21, 6:45am  

China has a lot of issues, and potential demographic problems, but after visiting it I don't worry too much about it.
They'll keep struggling with some getting ahead, some getting by, and others will die trying (figuratively speaking).

A blessing or a curse in China is the government doesn't spend for a huge welfare state; if your parents are broke you either help them or they go hungry, your parents, your decision.

Imagine how the USA would be without 1. huge welfare state 2. huge military 3. huge government goldbrick employment
We'd all be laughing all the way to the bank with the taxes we would not be paying.

I feel sorry for the Chinese; it's going to be tough to get ahead there for many people outside of the cities.
Oh well.

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