patrick.net

The Ukraine War ... Myth vs Reality

Myth:

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is an unprovoked war of aggression. Russia is an evil nation that is out to conquer Europe, and probably, the world. If we don't stop their unjust invasion of Ukraine, we'll eventually be fighting them in Europe and possibly even over here.

Reality:

The USA guaranteed an eventual invasion of Ukraine when, after the collapse of the USSR, the promise made to Gorbachev by George H. W. Bush & Sec. of State James Baker not to expand NATO by "one inch" was dramatically broken with NATO expanding in a manner that virtually surrounded Russia. Then, in 2013/14, a coup was orchestrated by the U. S. Government to remove from power the Ukraine Government that just so happened to be friendly with Russia.

Myth:

Ukraine is winning the war. They will not only kick the Russians out of Ukraine, but also will capture Crimea. They only need more money and armaments in order to finish what will surely be a victory for Ukraine.

Reality:

Ukraine never had a chance in defeating Russia, as in NEVER. Furthermore, Putin has waged a very limited, controlled warfare, as evidenced by the fact that had he desired to destroy Ukraine he would have, due to Russia's overwhelming fire power.

Ukraine's much vaunted spring offensive, by all accounts, is a complete, utter failure. To date, the small nation of Ukraine has lost over *400,000 soldiers and counting. That kind of loss is unsustainable, illustrated by the fact that Ukraine is so desperate for fighting men that they are forcefully capturing men off of the streets, giving them a rifle, and sending them immediately to the front lines, only to fight against seasoned, professional, well-equipped Russian forces. Ukraine soldiers are on record describing the ongoing slaughter of these poorly trained Ukraine amateur soldiers.

* To put this military death toll in perspective, all of the military deaths suffered by the USA, in both the Pacific and in Europe, amounted to an estimated 407,000. At the outbreak of World War II, the population of the USA was estimated to be about 150 million. The current population of Ukraine is approximately 29 million. Obviously, the per capita death toll for Ukraine is astronomical in comparison to the losses of the USA in all of World War II.

Interesting timing: right after Red Fleet in the Black Sea was tricemated and its commaners killled it's SUDDENLY time to surrender to the mighty USSR. The vaginisation of some self-proclaimed "conservatives" is astounding. Reagan is rolling in his grave.

If anything it's time to abandon Obamaesque limpdicking and Brandonesque foot -dragging and deliver the necessary long-range weaponry in quantity. It's obvious that all the chickenclucking about Pukin's "redlines" wrt hits at Crimea and Soviet territory proper (including Moscow) was just manifestations of weak minds and lack of cojones. Want this war to end? Give all the necessary tools to these who have the balls to fight.

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1706129638605328646?s=20

RWSGFY says

Interesting timing: right after Red Fleet in the Black Sea was tricemated and its commaners killled it's SUDDENLY time to surrender to the mighty USSR. The vaginisation of some self-proclaimed "conservatives" is astounding. Reagan is rolling in his grave.

They are not Conservatives.

Mostly a mix of 9/11 Troofers, anti-Semites, Birchers, Islamist apologists and people who have been radicalized by the treatment of Trump.

They are not agnostic claiming they just want to see the killing stopped and economic security restored. Some are gleefully cheering on Russia's invasion and celebrating Ukraine's death toll.

Same fuckers will be cheering for Communist China if/when they invade Taiwan claiming America provoked it.

Big_Johnson says

“Same fuckers will be cheering for Communist China if/when they invade Taiwan claiming America provoked it”

Lol. Exactly.

And if China commitments war crimes it will be pointed out that the US did something in Yemen or Libya.

have you ever considered focusing on the myriad of problems plaguing the US instead of countries half way around the world? just askin'

Part of the $113 Billion so far goes to pay the following:

America is paying the salaries of 57,000 Ukrainian first responders.

While Biden continues to ignore the huge shortfalls in the Social Security surplus fund, America is paying the pensions for Ukrainians.

The U. S. government continues to ignore the invasion taking place on our southern border which will eventually overwhelm our system. Yet, many Americans ignore this, while they enthusiastically support the sure to fail war efforts of Ukraine. Amazing!

komputodo says

have you ever considered focusing on the myriad of problems plaguing the US instead of countries half way around the world? just askin'

Sure. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

I am not wigging out over Ukraine thinking Russia will nuke us or worry that Europe will freeze to death like some folks here at Patnet have been confidently predicting this past year. I am perfectly fine sending excess and mothballed weapons to Ukrainians if they are willing to defend their territory and keep one our chief economic/military rivals tied up in attritional warfare.

If it causes North Korea and Iran to bleed out their weapons stores by shipping them to Russia - all the better!

The military aid we have provided Ukraine is the best ROI we have gotten from our massively bloated military budget in my entire lifetime!

socal2 says

Sure. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Except we won't/can't.

So it's time to force the issue: hold Ukey Nazi support hostage in Congress until we get what we want. At the very least

Schokolade says

Those myths you are stating are what I believe to be true instead.

It’s all a BS discussion anyways. let’s just agree to disagree.

Whatever happened to that Ostrich Button?

Schokolade says

Just because you call it facts doesn’t mean it’s a fact.

Then you write this:

Schokolade says

We can be happy we are not being attacked by a madman like Putin

You're just trolling this site. Go away.

@Patrick ^^^ he's antagonizing the hell out of multiple ppl by engaging in disingenuous dialog whenever any of us call him out for his inconsistencies. A fucking troll. #UkeyNaziFluffer

Schokolade says

Richwicks, you keep mentioning the US and Libya, Yemen etc. to be honest, that doesn’t bother me one bit.

Yeah, I know there's a lot of sociopaths that don't give a shit about the US federal government bankrupting the entire fucking country to start wars that have NOTHING to do with US interests, that kill millions.

I know it doesn't bother subhuman things at all. I'm very well aware of that. I have tried for decades to believe these meat machines around me are human, but the last 3 years, that just broke me. You're cattle.

Schokolade says

Those are shithole countries and controlled by Muslim radicals. I remember what Ted Cruz said, make the sand glow.

Saudi Arabia is controlled by a criminal crime syndicate family - the Sa'ud family. They are Wahhabis. Those are Muslims radicals.

You don't have a problem with the US' close relationship with them, because you never bothered to think about it, and IF YOU DID, you made up some bullshit excuse as to why it was excusable, but it wasn't consistent. You're just a hypocrite. You have no values or principles or standards. I do. Isn't that alien and strange to you? I bet I'm like a circus freak to you, "look mommy! The ape that has some fucking moral principles!"

Saudi Arabia took Jamal Khashoggi, murdered him, cut his body up into pieces in their Turkish embassy. Oh, but look over there, or there or there.

Our government colludes with monsters, because our government is monstrous.

No conflict for you. You have no problem with this, DO YOU? I mean, what is a moral principle? YOU have no idea.

Schokolade says

Russia attacking Ukraine bothers me though. Ukraine is too close to my other home (europe).

Oh god. Read this:

https://americandissident.substack.com/p/why-i-think-the-united-states-overthrew

You have no idea what is going on, or what could have been done to prevent it. I do.

Ignorance at one point was something imposed upon people, today, it's a fucking sin. You have a responsibility to know what is going on and you're a complete failure in this.

Schokolade says

I love the US. It’s people and culture. It’s the best country in the world. I could never see myself as a Russian booster. Doesn’t make any sense to me. What’s your attraction with Russia?

God. I oppose war. That doesn't mean I love Russia, obviously.

Here's what is going to happen. Nearly every Ukrainian that was unfortunate enough to be part of the military is either going to die, or be so mauled, they can never returned to active duty.

The country is likely to be split in half, and over time, who knows, Eastern European nations might start absorbing lands.

All of this could have been prevented, if Ukraine just ended their stupid fucking civil war. That was what the Minsky Accords were about, it's what Zelenskyy, a fucking Jewish traitor who HATES Ukraine, promised to do. That's why he was elected.

When this is over, Ukrainians are going to DESPISE Jews.

Schokolade says

Our problems are peanuts compared to what Ukraine is going through. The funds we invest to help Ukraine is a drop in the bucket.

OK - fine.

Let's have a drop in the bucket for

* people in Flint Michigan
* people in Palestine Ohio
* people in Maui

People in Ukraine get more fucking money than the people Maui did - $700 per household. I'm in full favor of revolution at this point.

Our government's responsibility is to serve the public good. If they can't do that, and they refuse to do it, fire them, or kill them. I'd prefer just to fire them, but I'm not above guillotines and heads on stakes. These mother fucker sociopaths, and just asking for it.

Trollhole says

he's antagonizing the hell out of multiple ppl by engaging in disingenuous dialog whenever any of us call him out for his inconsistencies

If he's not deliberately insulting other users, why not just refuse to engage?

RWSGFY says

it's time to abandon Obamaesque limpdicking and Brandonesque foot -dragging and deliver the necessary long-range weaponry in quantity.

Why do you want thermonuclear war?

Schokolade says

Having a different opinion is not trolling. There are a few people here who are not Russian boosters. And what you quoted there is not an inconsistency. I bet if you would live close to Russia (say in Lithuania, Finnland or Poland) you would think very differently about this Russian threat. Why are you getting so personal, angry and emotional about the subject?

Stop the fucking trolling bullshit. It is sooo obvious now.

Once your trolling gets outed, it is just a waste of time on your part to continue.

Schokolade says

Richwicks, you are saying the US planted the Ukrainian government (puppets) and caused this war, right? You base this on this leaked phone call from 2014 w/ Nuland or do you have any other indications?

Yes, I am.

Victoria Nuland with Geoffrey Pyatt picked out the government of Ukraine, and that's the government Ukraine ending up getting, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!#@!$#@$%#@!$^%@!#$ This phone call was leaked on February 4th, 2014 and the Yanukovych government collapsed on February 22, 2014.

How could Victorial Nuland know that the government would have to be replaced IF she was acting as a diplomat, and not a fucking piece of shit spy? More importantly, what was Victoria Nuland doing picking out the next government to replace the current one? It's supposed to be a democratic republic, isn't it? Shouldn't the people of Ukraine be picking?

This, is by far, the most obvious coup in history, that was exposed, before the coup.

What proof do YOU need? Some document that comes out from an FOIA request 30 years from now? I have seen people deny this blatant evidence. They may as well be telling me that the red hot stove isn't warm and safe to handle. I don't believe anybody can be this stupid, but I do believe, and in fact know, there are people that will be this dishonest - to simply deny obvious reality. I'm tired of this shit.

If you deny the coup, that's just silly. It's childish. Do you think just because assholes in my government claim that this leaked phone call (that's been confirmed to be real) had no bearing on Ukraine's government, that I'll believe it? 2+2=4. It's not 3, it's not 5, I don't give a shit what the state tells me it is.

Now if you're a pathetic, cow, you can believe whatever they tell you. I'm serious when I say I don't any longer regard 90% of humanity as human. I'm not kidding. I won't kill them, I won't harm them. I was a vegetarian for 25 years, I have empathy. I used to do dog rescue, I would take incredibly broken messed up dogs, and get them to see what a wondrous nice world existed. But I'd still whack them if they showed violence, if they eliminated in my home. I didn't do this to be mean, I did this to correct them ONCE. Only once was generally necessary.

YOU can't be trained. Dogs I couldn't train NOT to be violent, I put down - I failed once out of 20 dogs and I still feel badly about it, it was a failure. But, I'll leave you alone. You're not a dog, you can't be corrected, you can't be fixed and I'm not going to rescue you, or show you a better side of existence.

I had a wolf in rescue. That's not a dog. I had a full arctic wolf. That animal couldn't be trained, but wasn't dangerous, but was NOT a dog. You're more like that but I don't know, you might be dangerous. I just got lucky this animal wasn't dangerous, but he could be. That animal could have easily killed me, he just didn't because he didn't want to kill me. Just like I didn't want to kill him. What would be the motive?

Schokolade says

Why is Zelenskyy a Jewish traitor and hates Ukraine??

He promised to implement the Minsk Accords, and end the civil war, and he didn't. Instead he escalated it, got Russia to finally attack Eastern Ukraine, and has dumped 300,000 or so Ukrainian into the meat grinder. He's destroyed Ukraine.

Schokolade says

Btw., all the personal comments and name callings don’t bother me in your case. I think it’s because I believe you just went too far down the rabbit hole.

HOW am I wrong? Maybe I am. When you think you have found an error in either my logic or knowledge, point it out. I'm human, I make errors, and I will accept it when I do, and correct. I've been doing this all my life.

I'm just disgusted with you. I know how this war will end, because it will end like EVERY American war. YOU SHOULD KNOW, and you don't. What? Can't learn the basics in 20 fucking years? This war will end with a lot of dead, and a destroyed nation, and if anybody gains, it will be US companies shipping LNG to Europe, and Russia. I almost think this war is really a war against Europe.

Russia will be fine after this, the US.... I don't know.

Trollhole says

Wow, Maui is really bad.

Oh wait, only a few million for US disasters.

@StillsearchingforagoodName - you asked me what I based my belief on Ukraine being overthrown by a CIA coup and I told you, that the intercepted phone call between Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt was not just evidence for the coup, but absolute proof.

Do you consider this to be erroneous?

You seem to think that Victoria Nuland deciding on the government that Ukraine was going to have (and got), is just some sort of coincidence. Are you really incapable of not believing in something until some taking head asshole says it?

For the first time in history, not only did we get evidence of a coup before it happened, we had a recorded conversation that Victoria Nuland admitted was accurate and correct, and simply because our asshole propagandists won't confirm it, you don't believe it? It's amazing to me how absolutely brainwashed people can be.

I want to be clear about my position. I think the US state department is out of control by maniacs, and I mean literal maniacs. They should all be fired if not imprisoned or executed. They purpose create problems, and they use the propaganda box to offer a solution. We didn't have to go to ANY WAR since 1991. I'm tired of this shit. Ukraine was corrupt in 2013, and it's corrupt now. It's not our problem, and more importantly, the US isn't solving that problem, they are exploiting it and I'm fucking paying for it, and so is everybody.

20 fucking years of war, of state sanctioned murder, ignore the immorality of it, how has ANY of these wars advantaged our nation? We either have incompetents running the state department, or traitors running it. They are destroying this nation. Stop being a puppet to them. You are helping to destroy this nation, by being loyal. Stop being a loyal puppet. I'm tired of it. We should have revolted decades ago.

iwog2 says

Schokolade says

Just because you call it facts doesn’t mean it’s a fact.

Then you write this:

Schokolade says

We can be happy we are not being attacked by a madman like Putin

You're just trolling this site. Go away.

How is that Trolling, seems like a low bar to me. People call Putin a madman all the time in their support for Ukraine.
If you're already triggered by their first defense for supporting Ukraine, then you have already lost the debate.

I support Putin over the EU and Global Domination NGO cabal, and their G20 enablers.
I can only go by logical optics for my opinion and support. He may be a bigger asshole than I give him credit for. But however the MSM's dishonest selective reporting. And those attacking him, if critical thinking prevails, Those that are attacked the most, are probably on the side of the Truth of what's going on. That being said, I don't or can't get bent out of shape over people calling him a madman, because that's their only defense for the NWO.
Otherwise they can't tell me how Putin is doing anything worse than the rest of Western World's influence and military enforced policy.

The Russo/Ukrainian war can best be described as a civil war between adjoining and neighboring states with a history of conflict.
Which civil war in history was NOT inflamed to greater body counts and longer duration with more destruction by the addition of foreign money and arms?

There’s a reason we lock up international arms dealers. They prolong such violence and cause thousands of needless deaths by arming the belligerent forces.

This all could have been over in April 2022, but Biden and the elites wanted to “hurt Russia” with their cat’s paw Ukraine.
It’s cost half a million lives, and those weren’t Sudanese Africans nobody cares about. Those are white Christians who are dying in droves for the vanity of the “Rich Men North of Richmond.”

Shaman says

It’s cost half a million lives, and those weren’t Sudanese Africans nobody cares about. Those are white Christians who are dying in droves for the vanity of the “Rich Men North of Richmond.”

This implies that Ukrainians have no agency and are not volunteering to defend their country from a hostile invader.

Where is the evidence that the majority of Ukrainians want their government and military disbanded and to accept living under Russian occupation?

socal2 says

This implies that Ukrainians have no agency and are not volunteering to defend their country from a hostile invader.

If the Ukrainians have so many volunteers, why do they recruit by press gang?

Onvacation says

socal2 says

This implies that Ukrainians have no agency and are not volunteering to defend their country from a hostile invader.

If the Ukrainians have so many volunteers, why do they recruit by press gang?

FFS - virtually any country suffering a massive invasion from Russia like Ukraine is experiencing would have to institute Martial Law and set up a conscription system. There were loads of patriotic US volunteers after Pearl Harbor, but we still needed a draft.

Besides, if Russia is so successful in their invasion, why are they having to call up mobilizations and pathetically use criminals like Wagner to go next door and get killed?

socal2 says

FFS - virtually any country suffering a massive invasion from Russia like Ukraine is experiencing would have to institute Martial Law and set up a conscription system.

Drag them off the corner give them a rifle and send them into Russian mine fields is conscription?

Ukey Bullshit Counter-offensive Paid By You And Me.

We were promised that they would be at the Sea of Azov MONTHS ago.