patrick.net

The_Deplorable says

You cannot turn off something that you do not know it exists!

You keep going back to this. It's a moot point. Electronic systems fail at time whether you know about them or not. There's a way to control the plane. They had dozens of other gauges to check and didn't. They didn't know what to do regardless of MCAS which as mention multiple times could be overridden without knowledge of the system with basic training on the aircraft.

No mention that Boeing has a couple astronauts stuck in space?
https://x.com/shaunmmaguire/status/1805327328169673049

Meanwhile, SpaceX is successfully launching AND LANDING rockets every few days now.

Latest launch last night from Vandenberg that I can see from my house.

You cannot turn off something that you do not know it exists!

WookieMan says

"You keep going back to this."

Yes. Why don't you respond to this argument. Tell us, how do you turn off MCAS
if you do not know it exists?

"They didn't know what to do regardless of MCAS which as
mention multiple times could be overridden without knowledge of the system with
basic training on the aircraft. "

Except Boeing wanted to avoid training! But please explain to us how do you turn
off MCAS if you do not know it exists?

And keep in mind, "Boeing CEO apologizes for lives lost and acknowledges role
of company’s flight-control system in two crashes... Muilenburg recognized the role
in both crashes of MCAS... MCAS can cause pilots to lose control of an aircraft in
response to erroneous data from the plane’s external sensors."
See https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/04/04/boeing-ceo-dennis-muilenburg-apologizes-lives-lost-ethiopian-indonesian-plane-crashes/

WookieMan says

Until you know.... you don't know.

Yeah.

Like about aviation. Manufacturing. Top Management Ethics. Military Combat.

The_Deplorable says

Yes. Why don't you respond to this argument. Tell us, how do you turn off MCAS
if you do not know it exists?

"They didn't know what to do regardless of MCAS which as
mention multiple times could be overridden without knowledge of the system with
basic training on the aircraft. "

Except Boeing wanted to avoid training! But please explain to us how do you turn
off MCAS if you do not know it exists?

Deplorable, because He Knows Everything about Aviation and Top Management Ethics (also Manufacturing and Military Combat). We are stupid, He knows everything.

socal2 says

Meanwhile, SpaceX is successfully launching AND LANDING rockets every few days now.

Falcon Heavy tomorrow afternoon! We will be at the river fishing and watching.

I just boarded flight with hot blond pilot, and most flaming black flight attendant talking as gay as possible on intercom. This might be my last post.

Edit the copilot was an asian woman that sounded like a Hispanic boy, wtf I hit the dei lotto.

The_Deplorable says

Yes. Why don't you respond to this argument. Tell us, how do you turn off MCAS
if you do not know it exists?

I've linked multiple times. If you can't figure it out I'm sorry. I don't wipe my kids ass, not going to wipe yours.

GREAT Quote about the lifecycle of companies:

Back when I worked for Exxon there was a proverb about this sort of thing: that a healthy oil company had a geologist in charge, a mature one had an engineer in charge, a declining company had an accountant in charge, and a dying one had a lawyer in charge.

John Johnston III @JohnTheKnife
https://x.com/JohnTheKnife/status/1805649597164879948

https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-prosecutors-recommend-doj-criminally-charge-boeing-deadline-looms-2024-06-23/

The_Deplorable says

just_passing_through says
"My cousin fly's them... He said the crashes in other parts of the
world were due to lack of training."

That is Impossible because Boeing did not inform the airlines and the pilots that the 737 MAX
was unstable. Boeing did not even mention this in the pilot manual. So, how did you expect
the airlines to train their pilots about a problem they know nothing about?

From my cousin - I think he misunderstood 'arguing' though:

You cannot turn MCAS itself off. You can turn the power off to the elevator trim motors, so that the commands from MCAS cannot be carried out. It is just a switch on the center console that we turn off the power to the elevator trim so even though the MCAS is commanding a nose down trim there's no power to actually execute that. The video doesn't actually show that though. I wouldn't get an arguments like that with idiots anyways. I'm a rated and qualified line captain on the 737 for the largest airline in the world. I think I know the system and anyone that doubts that is an idiot of themselves.

I am familiar with how the system works. That is one of the systems that there is no real training to be done and the pilot has no interaction with it and has no switches to control it. But I do know the system was designed to lower the pitch attitude of the aircraft if the aircraft senses an impending stall. Lowering the pitch attitude is the normal manner in which you use to break a stall and it's just assisting you in that job function. We are trained on it.

So to me it's sort of like automatic cruise control for your car as an analogy except it just turns on. I'm trained to drive a car and if I see a dangerous situation unfolding, like traffic stopping ahead I turn the cruise control off (perhaps by braking)...

just_passing_through says

So to me it's sort of like automatic cruise control for your car as an analogy except it just turns on. I'm trained to drive a car and if I see a dangerous situation unfolding, like traffic stopping ahead I turn the cruise control off (perhaps by braking)...

Bingo. Better than I've tried explaining it. The crashes were avoidable.

Boeing will be held liable only because of insurance reasons. The Alaska Air door incident was bad timing and likely bad manufacturing. Oh, and no one was hurt. Pilots control planes and don't crash them. Except when they're poorly trained or inept at the job. Rarely is it equipment or software. It's 2024, not 1970 when most pilots were drunk.

Well, personally I'm trying to convince him to retire early. I don't trust Boeing anymore. In fact, that is going into my calculus as to when or whether or not I sell my Maui condo soon. I don't want to crash and DEI in the middle of the Pacific.

just_passing_through says

"So to me it's sort of like automatic cruise control for your car as an analogy except it just turns on."

How do you turn off cruise control if you do not know it exists?

How do you turn off cruise control if you do not know the definition of cruise control?

Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft - with two astronauts onboard - are currently stuck in space.

"It remains unclear when exactly the astronauts will be able to make their return to Earth."

It makes you wonder if the Starliner is missing any bolts...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/26/boeing-starliner-astronauts

The_Deplorable says

Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft - with two astronauts onboard - are currently stuck in space.

"It remains unclear when exactly the astronauts will be able to make their return to Earth."

It makes you wonder if the Starliner is missing any bolts...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/26/boeing-starliner-astronauts

They are not 'stuck' in space. SpaceX can send up a Dragon, if necessary.

It would be humiliating for both NASA and Boeing.

Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft - with two astronauts onboard - are currently stuck in space.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

"They are not 'stuck' in space. SpaceX can send up a Dragon, if necessary."

In other words they are currently stuck in space.

The_Deplorable says

just_passing_through says

"So to me it's sort of like automatic cruise control for your car as an analogy except it just turns on."

How do you turn off cruise control if you do not know it exists?

How do you turn off cruise control if you do not know the definition of cruise control?

He literally said it in his comment you selectively quoted. You tap the brake. Never used cruise control? There's a button for that on the plane that I've linked multiple times.

"Oh shit this car is going out of control" tap the brake. It was an extremely good analogy. Pilots "should" know how to override the electronics and tap the brakes so to speak. They were trained on this regardless of ANY electronic system. Take complete control of the plane.

Again for the 10th teen time, this is an insurance issue where billions will be paid out. Pilot error and culpability will never happen with ANY airline. Insurers and attorneys found software that wasn't in the manual. Very smart to be honest. It does NOT mean the pilots couldn't have fixed the situation. This isn't an online argument or debate. This is fact. They were poorly trained pilots.

Fact is Sully putting the plane with no thrust in the Hudson, urban environment proves what training and decision making does. The pilots of Lion Air and Ethiopia Air failed. They had functioning engines and the ability to override a system they didn't know about. There was a procedure for that for all 737's. They weren't trained well or freaked out. This thread should just be deleted at this point. I've posted plenty of links.

The pilots knew the procedure 100%. They forgot how to do it or what to do in time. Pilot error. This is the consensus with almost every pilot that flies the 737. Boeing made the right decision to just take a bath on this. The door incident didn't help, but this was pilot error. Yet to see a link from someone that's not flown a fixed wing aircraft that is a military grifter #tammy.

The_Deplorable says

Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft - with two astronauts onboard - are currently stuck in space.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

"They are not 'stuck' in space. SpaceX can send up a Dragon, if necessary."

In other words they are currently stuck in space.

Would you go to space? I have no sympathy for them. Be it Boeing's fault, they took a risk in boarding a risky endeavor. Space X legit lets their rockets blowup for testing. I would NOT get a Boeing spacecraft. They are commercial aviation and military.

They likely spread themselves too thin in a market they'll never dominate. So proof I'm not a Boeing fan boy in my comments.

How do you turn off cruise control if you do not know it exists?
How do you turn off cruise control if you do not know the definition of cruise control?

WookieMan says

"He literally said it in his comment you selectively quoted. You tap
the brake."

Except if you do not know that a cruise controller exists and if you do not know the
definition of a cruise control, you are not going to tap the break.

Give it a rest. Have a nice day.

The_Deplorable says

Except if you do not know that a cruise controller exists and if you do not know the
definition of a cruise control, you are not going to tap the break.

Give it a rest. Have a nice day.

Nope. You tap the brake. Not giving this a rest. No company is flawless. Neither are pilots. There was an operation to stop any auto pilot, etc. These pilots didn't know what to do. Read articles on it, not Tammy Duckworth who knows nothing about fixed wing aircraft. People are dumping on DEI hires SHE was one of the first in the 90's. Someone that got a military job being hispanic looking and woman? They didn't let women fly planes during that time. She got to the choppa. Learn a bit about what you quote. She knows nothing about Boeing aircraft.

You don't know IL and you don't know our politicians. Tammy is a dip shit know nothing. Let me know when you meet with her.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-blames-missing-paperwork-alaska-111838576.html

The_Deplorable says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-blames-missing-paperwork-alaska-111838576.html

I wonder what the whistleblowers have to say about this.

...oh, wait.

The_Deplorable says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-blames-missing-paperwork-alaska-111838576.html

If this is directed at me I haven't disputed the door incident.

That said I also check my air pressure on my tires weekly either electronically or manually. Simple maintenance is guess what? Simple. The aircraft should have been inspected to make sure it met spec. I'd call it a 50/50 liability issue. Boeing and Alaska. It was a custom order as well for the door. Your mechanics should double check that on delivery.

It appears no one has worked in manufacturing here on the labor side. Everyone on this forum has seen a sign I've made or assisted with. There will always be errors in manufacturing. I made errors at that age and even injured myself. For a product that goes 550mph I'd give them a passing grade. A few incidents doesn't make a bad company. No different than Trump grabbing them by the pussy, yet he was the best POTUS in most of our lifetimes, covid aside.

WookieMan says

The_Deplorable says

Except if you do not know that a cruise controller exists and if you do not know the
definition of a cruise control, you are not going to tap the break.

Give it a rest. Have a nice day.

Nope. You tap the brake. Not giving this a rest. No company is flawless. Neither are pilots. There was an operation to stop any auto pilot, etc. These pilots didn't know what to do. Read articles on it, not Tammy Duckworth who knows nothing about fixed wing aircraft.

Come on, Deplorable: don't you know by now?

He is an Expert on Aviation, Manufacturing, Top Management Corporate Ethics, and Military Combat.

You and me are clueless dumb-shits. Give it a rest.

B.A.C.A.H. says

You and me are clueless dumb-shits. Give it a rest.

Counter anything I've said besides whining. Quote something. Link something. Anything. I'll wait. In the meantime you can have a popsicle from the freezer. I won't tell mom.

https://babylonbee.com/cleanArticle/assange-plea-deal-includes-free-flight-home-on-a-boeing

WookieMan says

Quote something

Here's some quotes for you, Mr. Aviation / Manufacturing / Corporate Ethics / Military Combat Expert:

She's a fucking idiot

She's a 10th level dip shit

She lost her leg because she sucked at her job

You're The Expert!

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-on-edge-as-it-awaits-fateful-decision-from-doj-150442687.html

B.A.C.A.H. says

WookieMan says

Quote something

Here's some quotes for you, Mr. Aviation / Manufacturing / Corporate Ethics / Military Combat Expert:

She's a fucking idiot

She's a 10th level dip shit

She lost her leg because she sucked at her job

You're The Expert!

You know Tammy? Talk to her? Nope. I'll have a chat with my house rep tomorrow. Federal, not state.

How many combat veterans would you call friends. I have two really really good friends. Golfing with one on Friday that did two tours in Afghanistan and just saw another that did two tours. I see him almost weekly.

I've been the labor for manufacturing. Not some tech geek. I could build a house with my own hands if I wanted to.

I know corporate ethics well. Not doxing myself. My dad was and sister are prominent attorneys.

I know it looks like I talk a big game, but it's not bull shit dude. You've given me shit about travel and airport lingo. You've said you've flown planes. Maybe believe someone and don't act like they're shit talkers. I'm not.

WookieMan says

She's a fucking idiot

She's a 10th level dip shit

She lost her leg because she sucked at her job

Yes indeed Sir you are The Expert on so many things.

I know it's important to get in the last word, so go for it

B.A.C.A.H. says

Yes indeed Sir you are The Expert on so many things.

I know it's important to get in the last word, so go for it

Have you met her? Talked with her? Not going to name call, but come on dude. Have every right to criticize someone I've met. You have no clue.

Tampa 737 Flight has landing gear failure

https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1811182823220576527

Sheeeeeeit. Damn Old White Perfectionist Male Engineers.

AmericanKulak says

Tampa 737 Flight has landing gear failure

https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1811182823220576527

Sheeeeeeit. Damn Old White Perfectionist Male Engineers.

Hyperbolic much. Good pilot yet somehow it’s Boeings fault American didn’t maintain their tires?

We have kids wanting to be YouTube stars. There’s no talent in the trades. You can easily make $100k+ by 30. You can end up making more than a pilot just more hours.

WookieMan says

Hyperbolic much. Good pilot yet somehow it’s Boeings fault American didn’t maintain their tires?

I agree. I wonder if it was not a design and manufacturing problem, but an operation and maintenance problem.

As far as maintenance, they do not perform checks such as torque checks on bolts for doors and wheels.

And i understand what you mean as far as pilot error due lack of full competency.

.

This was an 800 model, still manufactured until a few years ago, don't know if Boeing, American, or a Contractor does the maintenance.

Reducing Federal Subsidies Airlines is a top priority; it's probably the most Corporate Socialized on all industries except Banks at this point.

Airflights are too cheap, that Ghetto Ratchets are using it. One way to fix that is remove the special socialist treatment Commercial AvGas gets.

"B-b-but, airplanes use alot of gas, so volume."

Yeah, and truck fleets don't?

The major airlines have been outsourcing maintenance to overseas or central/south American depots. The results are what you would expect. They have to do what would be routine maintenance twice - first done incompetently by the cheap foreign maintenance depots, then again once they get back to the US to correct major problems. Between the maintenance debacle, retiring/injured pilots due to the clot shot mandates, the airlines are a shitshow for anything other than the major high $$$ business routes. They are triaging pilots and maintenance to the most valuable routes.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/its-complicated-friday-august-2-2024

Boeing, Boeing. Yesterday, ArsTechnica ran an embarrassing science story headlined, “NASA says it is ‘evaluating all options’ for the safe return of Starliner crew.” The sub-headline added, “SpaceX is actively working on a plan to fly Starliner's crew home.”

It has now been eight weeks since Boeing's Starliner spacecraft launched on an eight-day mission to the International Space Station. The problems started on the way up, when they landing gear fell off and the engine caught fire. Wait, that was a different Boeing aircraft.

Actually, while en route to the space station, Boeing reported some “really small” helium leaks and “relatively minor” thruster failures. Ever since then, Boeing and NASA have offered one “minor” and “pretty small” excuse after another, and reported on one exciting test or repair that never went anywhere.

Nobody seems to know exactly what the problem is. It’s complicated! Meanwhile, astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams have literally been hanging in limbo, eating liquified tube protein, and going to the bathroom in something that looks like the business end of a vacuum cleaner.

NASA and Boeing have repeatedly denied the astronauts are “stuck” on the Space Station, or anywhere for that matter, and keep saying the astronauts are just working remotely, in space. They have described the deferred return decisions as being solely related to an abundance of caution. You can’t be too careful.

Elon has really been having a moment lately. ArsTechnica’s article yesterday reported rumors that Elon Musk’s SpaceX team in Florida is hurriedly working on a project to rescue the definitely-not-stranded astronauts in one of its own Dragon spaceships, a development that would further humiliate Boeing and smother its shuttling contract along with its new Starliner series.

NASA, taking cues on transparency from the FBI and the CDC, refused to confirm whether or not it asked SpaceX to come to the rescue, saying only that it was “evaluating all options.”

Just like the Secret Service trying to hide it's incompetence. Wait! Some on here won't accept that and soon we'll start hearing wild conspiracies as to why the astronauts are stuck up there.

Already stating for the record that my fav will be the ones involving aliens.