patrick.net

The_Deplorable says

Your argument is incoherent. Changing a tire is a maintenance issue. Failing to assemble the
fuselage by not bolting it down is a manufacturing issue.

Lol. They took control of the aircraft. Airlines have mechanics look it over for the 8-9 figure purchase they just made. You do know this right?

Fine, Boeing missed things, so did the airline. I don't buy pants with a 36" waist and a 48" waist arrives and not notice. Sure someone fucked up, BUT I CHECK TO MAKE SURE IT'S CORRECT. I cannot be clearer. Assume everything is defective that you buy. Especially a $120M aircraft. You have it looked over by your mechanics. I guess this isn't common knowledge???

Watch some aviation videos and read about it. As I've said, you're out of your element. I'll be on a Max in about 48 hours or so. No concerns.

WookieMan says

"Lol. They [Alaska Airlines] took control of the aircraft."

Irrelevant.

"Airlines have mechanics look it over for the 8-9 figure purchase they
just made. You do know this right?"

You seem unable to distinguish between facts from fiction. The US government requires
manufacturers to recall vehicles that have safety-related defects or do not meet Federal
safety standards. What makes you think that Boeing is an exception? No answer.

The_Deplorable says

You seem unable to distinguish between facts from fiction. The US government requires
manufacturers to recall vehicles that have safety-related defects or do not meet Federal
safety standards. What makes you think that Boeing is an exception? No answer.

This isn't a car the general public purchases. You're comparing apples to watermelons. This isn't John Doe buying a Chevy at the dealership. You're not understanding the corporate to corporate purchase. Alaska airlines is ultimately on the hook for this. They're the ones that are going to lose business from this. Boeing has a massive backlog of orders.

As a non-mechanic I look over everything on my car before purchasing. If there was something I didn't know about I'd have a mechanic look it over asap. Then take it back to the dealer and have it fixed. Airline mechanics and techs make a ton of money for a reason. There's not one product on the planet that is engineered perfectly 100% of the time. Alaskan airlines clearly didn't look over and take care of the aircraft.

I will never fly Lion Air or Ethiopian because they didn't train their pilots on a basic system for flight controls. Blame the Boeing MCAS system all you want, it was easy to override and was trained to US pilots. I won't fly Alaskan now because the mechanics missed stuff that was obvious a part of the plane that was easy to inspect in a day. This wasn't a brand new plane delivery and first flight.

The Max has a massive fleet already. This would be happening all the time. It's not. And guess what? No one died either. Totally shit engineering.... You must be the type that doesn't check your tires, brakes, oil and then goes and bitches to the manufacturer? Alaskan didn't take care of a 9 figure asset. There's not much else to this. Again this isn't a public to corporate purchase like a car. It's corporate to corporate. Totally different animal.

WookieMan says

"I will never fly Lion Air or Ethiopian because they didn't train their pilots
on a basic system for flight controls."

Nonsense because they didn't know the plane was unstable and Boeing kept it a secret!
1. Boeing did not inform the airlines that the 737 MAX was unstable.
2. Boeing did not inform the pilots that the 737 MAX was unstable.
3. Boeing did not include this information, that the 737 MAX was unstable, in the pilot manual.

Training had nothing to do with these disasters. Lion Air and the Ethiopian planes crashed
because the planes were unstable.

Evidently, the Wright Brothers in December 1903 knew more about straight and level flight
than Boeing today.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

The_Deplorable says

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/congressman-sold-boeing-stock-hours-doj-probe-was-announced

Trust me: they know exactly what dumpster they dropped his body in.

Little did I know how this would age well.

Yes, that is the Enola Gay. Also built by Boeing.

The_Deplorable says

Training had nothing to do with these disasters. Lion Air and the Ethiopian planes crashed
because the planes were unstable.

Totally false. How many Southwest pilots crashed a 737 Max? United? American? Delta? They had probably 10X more delivered and flying than either of those airlines. You are talking out your ass. Foreigners were not trained on how to override the system. And it was actually a safety system.

Read more aviation material and reports. You are 100% wrong. We'd have had 737's smashing into the ground everywhere if you were right. THEY WERE TRAINED. I've already posted links on this. You have an opinion, I provided facts. I'll be on one this afternoon. I have zero worries. None. Zilch. Be a fear mongerer. I'm not that weak to soak it up from someone that knows nothing about aviation and just reads headlines. When was the last time you flew? I think I know.....

WookieMan says

Boeing missed things

Bro, the aerospace company managed by dishonest Stock-Price-Focused top management that you irrationally reflexively defend has not had a profitable year since last decade.

Last week's financial news included headlines about the company's debt being downgraded to junk.

Today's headline story is about them pondering in the news media some successful military sectors of the company in an effort to raise cash. Kind of like selling their future to raise some cash.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-19/boeing-explores-defense-asset-sales-to-boost-balance-sheet

It's a company in a death spiral.

WookieMan says

"How many Southwest pilots crashed a 737 Max? United? American? Delta?"

They were lucky because they did not have an angle of attack (AOA) sensor failure that forced
the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) to engage. And back then the
pilots did not know about the MCAS system and they didn't know the plane was unstable.
Boeing kept it a secret.

You are speaking from ignorance, give it a rest.

The_Deplorable says

You are speaking from ignorance, give it a rest.

B.A.C.A.H. says

dishonest Stock-Price-Focused top management that you irrationally reflexively defend

Deplorable, he's not rational. My inner circle includes career aerospace engineers at the company who don't irrationally-reflexively defend the nefarious stuff while blaming pilots from abroad.

His posts are not rational. It's some weird twisted Southwest Airlines Air-Travel FanBoy thing.

WookieMan says

How many Southwest pilots crashed a 737 Max?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fbi-tells-alaska-airlines-passengers-101306191.html

The_Deplorable says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fbi-tells-alaska-airlines-passengers-101306191.html

Boeing is part of the MIC, nothing will happen to them. The US government will just bail them out.

richwicks says

Boeing is part of the MIC, nothing will happen to them. The US government will just bail them out.

Yes, bet every now and then the MIC members need a reminder to tow the line.

The_Deplorable says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fbi-tells-alaska-airlines-passengers-101306191.html

I was talking with some pilots I know - all of them American-trained, some ex-USAF, some not - about that MCAS covfefe back when it was fresh. All pretty much agreed that it was more about weak pilot training than the MCAS itself. Any properly trained pilot would recognize the problem and swithch the fucking thing off in mere seconds, not fly into the ground after many minutes of struggling with it like these poor schmuks did.

RWSGFY says

"I was talking with some pilots I know - all of them American-trained, some
ex-USAF, some not - about that MCAS covfefe back when it was fresh. All pretty much agreed
that it was more about weak pilot training than the MCAS itself."

This was proven wrong on flight simulators right after the Indonesian and Ethiopian crashes.
The flight simulators proved that there was not enough time for any pilot regardless of
experience to get out of this deadly trap alive. Don't forget that Boeing did not inform the
airlines and the pilots about the 737 MAX instability and the presence of MCAS. That is why
Boeing was found criminally liable.

The_Deplorable says

RWSGFY says
"I was talking with some pilots I know - all of them American-trained, some
ex-USAF, some not - about that MCAS covfefe back when it was fresh. All pretty much agreed
that it was more about weak pilot training than the MCAS itself."

This was proven wrong on flight simulators right after the Indonesian and Ethiopian crashes.
The flight simulators proved that there was not enough time for any pilot regardless of
experience to get out of this deadly trap alive. Don't forget that Boeing did not inform the
airlines and the pilots about the 737 MAX instability and the presence of MCAS. That is why
Boeing was found criminally liable.

You keep saying this. I've already posted a video in the other Boeing thread. Go find it. From a commercial pilot that investigates any aviation accident. B.A.C.A.H. says

His posts are not rational. It's some weird twisted Southwest Airlines Air-Travel FanBoy thing.

Yours are far more irrational. You ask for links and info and I have 100% provided it on this topic. You guys are simply wrong. It has nothing to do with Southwest either. That's what I fly for free and is the biggest MAX customer. It's what I personally witness on pretty much a monthly basis. There are plenty of other airlines with the 737 MAX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_MAX_orders_and_deliveries.

At no point has anyone explained or linked as to why an American trained pilot didn't crash the MAX. They had far more flights here than overseas airlines at the time. You can say it wasn't told to them but that's bullshit anyway you want to spin it. The airlines saw an opportunity to get money from Boeing and took it. You are TRAINED to manually fly a plane and override systems.

An American trained pilot is simply trained better regardless of the systems. They would know to shut systems down to regain control in seconds. I'll try to find the story on it. MCAS wasn't the problem. It was pilot error regardless if they knew about the system or not. Go search the other Boeing thread and watch the video I posted. You cats have posted nothing. I have a fucking FAA license. I'm an aviation junky and read want watch probably 20-60 minutes a day on it.

Talk to an actual pilot. I do every time I get on the damn plane. Sorry I can't link to my conversations. The airlines wanted money because their MAX fleet was grounded. I guess people don't understand business anymore... Jesus fucking christ. Thought you guys were smarter.

WookieMan says

At no point has anyone explained or linked as to why an American trained pilot didn't crash the MAX.

I believe in general they had redundant angle of attack sensors. The planes have slightly different configurations. Basically, the faulty sensor detected a stall condition (falsely) and dove the nose into the ground.

richwicks says

Basically, the faulty sensor detected a stall condition (falsely) and dove the nose into the ground.

Which was correctable. That's been my point. They weren't trained to hand fly a jet properly without automation. The co-pilot on Ethiopian I believe had 200 hours TOTAL flight time. Not in that class of aircraft. I don't care how many hours the captain had. You need two pilots with at least 1,000 hours each minimum before even flying a 737.

People can blame MCAS all they want. American pilots knew how to fly. They actually bitched about it even though they didn't know. The airlines wanted to take Boeing to the cleaners cash wise because of four dip shit pilots that crashed planes. This is indisputable. News media ate it up. It was a cash grab from a mistake that shouldn't have been deadly with a trained pilot. Thousands of flights happened with the MAX before these idiots made a scene.

Do your own research. I'm not wrong. I think you know that too.

WookieMan says

Which was correctable. That's been my point.

They crashed on takeoff. They weren't 5000 feet in the air. They were 50 feet in the air.

WookieMan says

People can blame MCAS all they want. American pilots knew how to fly. They actually bitched about it even though they didn't know. The airlines wanted to take Boeing to the cleaners cash wise because of four dip shit pilots that crashed planes

Possibly - TIME WILL TELL. I don't know why people argue about this shit. If Boeing has a systemic problem, believe me, it's going to show up in the next few years. You'll know for certain then.

The ONLY reason to argue this is if you're fucking working for Boeing and want to protect their reputation, or if you're just a dumb idiot that likes to argue and I know you're not really that, however I doubt you work for Boeing. My position, is fuck Boeing, and Lockheed, and Raytheon, etc - they are the motherfuckers that have kept this country in 20 years of war for their fucking profits. They literally are turning blood into money. Fuck them all.

Who cares? Let's say the Boeing has a systemic problem that is really dangerous? So what? It's still a lot safer than driving a car. Currently. If we really do diversity hires in critical areas, it's not going to be long before that's FORCIBLY corrected. We can't do this in a complex society.

When people are like "oh, these large companies will never fall", yeah they will. You don't hear much about diversity hires at Amazon, but they're not really a high tech company, they just sell disk space and virtual machines mostly. Google is going to fucking implode, regular normal people are starting to complain about it, and there ARE alternatives already up and running, ready to go. Facebook, people just flat out refuse to use because Fuckerberg is such an asshole, I don't know how well that works, but META imploded. Remember "Meta"?