patrick.net

But I can understand why Putin does not want NATO on its Ukraine border.

I can understand how he subtly said its a "new Russian" since 1991, and how it is open as far as democracy and economy compared to its pre-1991 past.

Putin just does not seem to want to emphasize the "new Russia" as much because it would alienate a lot of his very hard-core and conservative voters.

So he just says "just enough" about it being a "new Russia" to try to support his argument that there is no need for NATO to be in Ukraine, and that Russia invaded Ukraine out of a defensive posture to stop Ukraine's war against Donbas.

One thing Putin agreed is that Ukraine "nationalism" goes back as early as the 19th century.

Putin seems to want to marginalize the Ukraine language and culture as much as Stalin did.

This is like New York wanting to annex (and/or economically / politically control) Quebec and claim Quebec really has a more Brooklyn-culture and vernacular than it does a Quebec (and French) culture.

AD says

The problem is there is a Ukraine language and culture.

This is debatable. Ukrainian is essentially a dialect of Russian, with maybe 50% mutual intelligibility and the same alphabet. I visited Ukraine during my year of studying in Austria, and we were shown some famous art museum. I asked our tour guide why each painting had the same name written twice on the signs next to them. She said one was in Russian and the other in Ukrainian. I said "No, they're identical." She said, "No, look, this letter is different." Hoo boy.

AD says

This is like New York telling Quebec to become like New York or less like Quebec.

I think that overstates the difference by a lot. English and French are not mutually intelligible.

It's more like Germany and Austria, different countries with distinct forms of German, but they can certainly understand each other and have very similar cultures.

AmericanKulak says

Western 1/3 rabidly opposed to a Russian identity and We Wuz Vi-Kangz! Not Slavs! Ukrainian is the Venusian language! Everything Russian is bullshit!

I agree, it's like that.

Ukrainians have an identity problem, being essentially Russian but feeling oppressed by Russia as a provincial place on the edge, and whose upper classes accepted Polish identity for a long time.

AD says

Putin seems to not want to face what his ancestors did as far as Bolshevik terrorism

To be honest, I think the majority of the Bolshevik leadership was Jewish.

https://www.jpost.com/magazine/was-the-russian-revolution-jewish-514323

Ceffer says

But in this case, the interview got derailed by these ill-advised questions and the style of interviewing which did not promote reality and the spirit of truth on the issues covered.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/skepticism-friday-february-9-2024

On the other hand, proving that you can’t please everybody, skeptical conservatives expressed disappointment with the interview, perhaps preferring that Tucker would’ve thrown caution to the wind, opened a ‘Ukraine biolabs’ can of whoop-ass, and broached other salacious subjects. But he didn’t, and Putin was even more restrained than Tucker, tip-toeing around topics that might trigger liberals, such as LGBTQ and trans policy, which Putin is famous for criticizing and usually never misses a chance to get his digs in.

So what was going on? Why all the delicacy?

They were careful because the interview wasn’t aimed at conservatives. Conservatives are already skeptical of the war, and we already disbelieve whatever we’re being told by the Biden Administration. The interview was aimed instead at moderate democrats and independents. Democrat partisans wouldn’t watch it even if Putin had described a secret cure for cancer — although ironically he discussed cancer (denied having it) and joked about a cure.

From Wikipedia: The official language of Ukraine is Ukrainian, a Slavic language, which is spoken regularly by 88% of Ukraine's population at home in their personal life, and as high as 87% at work or study. It is followed by Russian which is spoken by 34% in their personal life.

From UkraineLessons.com: In terms of vocabulary, the Ukrainian language is the closest to Belarusian (16% of difference), and the Russian language to Bulgarian (27% of difference).

Patrick says

To be honest, I think the majority of the Bolshevik leadership was Jewish.

The article explains that many who were in the Revolution, got whacked when Stalin took over and were mostly gone by the 20s, and mostly completely 'liquidated' in the Great Purge.

But, I would be extremely cautious of Jews from the Pale, since I've noticed an awful great many of them are Brooklyn Bolsheviks.

Raskin's dad was a Prog Rat, for one.

It doesn't matter if Putin is 100% right, 50% right or 25% right. He made some good points and reiterated he wants to negotiate, why is nobody inviting him to the table and instead let this stupid war continue? Because bojo the clown said so? Or senile xiden? He was absolutely right about portraying most of modern Europe as vasall states with weak and corrupt govt. Hope Germany will kick the corrupt leftoid govt out next election and start aiming for peace in the Ukraine and solid business relations with Russia again. Nordstream FTW!

mell says

He made some good points and reiterated he wants to negotiate, why is nobody inviting him to the table and instead let this stupid war continue?

He did mention a good point about the "Russian experts" industry within the USA ranging from federal civil servants at CIA and State Department to academia and think tanks. It seems these "experts" are dictating the USA policy.

.

Patrick says

She said one was in Russian and the other in Ukrainian. I said "No, they're identical." She said, "No, look, this letter is different." Hoo boy.

Yep, it's like "Kyiv" vs. "Kiev"

It's a bit of color vs. colour, plus some "offen" vs. "of-Ten" or "Al U Min eeee Um" vs. "Alu-min-um".

Maybe like Neopolitan Italian vs. Roman Italian, or a Scots Brogue vs. Received English Pronounciation. But it's deliberately spelled different.

I heard somewhere that written Ukranian was formalized only in the 19th, ironically by Pan-Slavs from Lvov!

AD says

" On January 7, 1919 the Bolsheviks invaded Ukraine in full force with an army led by Vladimir Antonov-Ovseyenko, Joseph Stalin, and Volodymyr Zatonsky. "

Much of Ukraine was part of Imperial Russia long before 1919 and Stalin.



Russia was actually born in Konugard/Kiev, but the culture and center of Russian civ moved further North into the Forests with the coming of the Horde.

AmericanKulak says

Much of Ukraine was part of Imperial Russia long before 1919 and Stalin.

Much of Ukraine was also part of Poland, as late as 1945.

HeadSet says

Much of Ukraine was also part of Poland, as late as 1945.

Or Austria.

The Donbas area in dispute has been Russian for centuries. Crimea also.

Ceffer says

LOL at McCainshaw and the Gay Dog-Cosplaying Officer

Be, as kinky as you can be,
Get a cock in your BDSM Ass
Fight to liberate Donbas
Find you Future... In the Army! (Reserves!)

Classic US Army Recruitment Jingle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms9pxvEbILs



https://www.rebelnews.com/u_s_army_investigates_military_officers_who_posed_in_bdsm_fetish_gear

Be all that you be!
Transwomen Officers give birth!
Disobey Lt. Xir? Then Leavenworth!
Get an edge on life, in the Army!

Be all that you can be!
Forced to take an experimental jab,
Discharged so VA won't pay that tab,
Stringy blood clots, from the Army!

Ukrainian is hillbilly Russian. Everybody knows that.

AmericanKulak says

Much of Ukraine was part of Imperial Russia long before 1919 and Stalin.

Much of the US Southwest was also part of Mexico not that long ago too.

Where do these arguments end?

Ceffer says

Ukrainian is hillbilly Russian. Everybody knows that.

Ukraine culture is as much different to Russia as is rednecks of Alabama are from Democrats in the white liberal enclaves on New England.

That is what Putin is trying to marginalize as far as his narrative of Ukraine essentially being the same as Russia.

And again, Ukraine language is about 30% different than the Russian language.

What is interesting is that the old Soviet Union use to emphasize the different cultures during its Victory Day parades. You'd have parade participants who would dress in their local culture clothing and display their cultural symbols in that parade.
.

WookieMan says

There's a reason Putin hasn't been interviewed by others.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6840134/

GreaterNYCDude says

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Not it isn't. Our media is complete propaganda, from either the left or the right. There's no truth in Western media at all. If you want actual information, you have to go to sources that source original information. Who in our media will point out that Ukraine was overthrown in 2014, explain that it was without doubt overthrown? Nobody will. Putin mentioned it in the interview with Carlson, but Carlson didn't press on it.

GNL says

WookieMan says

There's a reason Putin hasn't been interviewed by others.

What are you talking about?

Look at those babies. That's cute. Putin has been in power damn near 25 years. He's a dictator and ex KGB. Sure, go ahead and believe a thing that comes out of that guys mouth. No interest in war with Russia on my comment and he "says" he doesn't with us, but I don't buy a thing the dude says.

Just because Tucker interviewed him now makes him a valid leader? He's a fucking dictator. Dictators are awful for society outside of the Middle East where even then it's a shit hole.

There was no reason to invade Ukraine. It was poorly thought out. He fucked up and now he's trying to clean up the mess and the throw the US some biscuits. Clearly some people don't know what a dictatorship is. Half your life under the same "ruler" is normal? Fuck no. Putin is a piece of shit and Tucker is giving him air time to boost his brand since fire from Fox. It was a double whammy.

I'm not against Tucker. But he's not invincible to criticism. This was a move to build a brand. Putin knew the questions 100%. A former spy and politician in Putin, lol. You don't think that shit goes down in other countries like it does here?

richwicks says

GreaterNYCDude says

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

I agree as Putin lied by omission in some respects as far as Ukraine being independent culture and people. He left out how the Bolsheviks were sent to Ukraine to get them in line, but Putin did admit going back to 19th century that Ukraine "nationalism" has existed.

Let alone he seemed to forget about the Holomodor which caused a lot of Ukraine "nationalists" to become the "Nazis" of World War 2.

But Putin is right about NATO being on the +800 mile border with Russia. However, he is a trapped man despite what his espoused in his +1 hour long narrative.

He briefly said Russia since 1991 is a "new country" in regards to being more Western as far as economy and democracy. But he seems to only say that as some Trump card or get-out-of-jail-free-card.

Putin does not seem verbose, sincere or genuine (as he is with his +90 minute history lessons) and that is because he does not want to alienate his base (about 80% of Russians) who are as conservative as him.

Maybe Putin figures 20 years from now it will be a much different Russian demographic and less conservative.
.

https://jameshowardkunstler.substack.com/p/eventful-events

Historians of the future, gathered round their campfires poaching armadillo tail-flaps in their own shells, will harken back to the wondrous day in 2024 when they could watch and compare two heads of great nations present themselves to the world for assessment. There was Mr. Putin of the land called Russia, calmly discoursing in fine detail on a thousand years of his country’s history. And there was Mr. Biden of the USA, facing the White House press pool, angrily refuting a special prosecutor’s glum conclusion that the President was not mentally competent to be tried in court on the finding that he’d indeed mishandled classified documents.

The contrast between the two figures might even alert the mandarins of our Ivy League that something has gone very wrong in this country for a decade or more, and could arouse suspicions among the faculties that they had been gulled into a false view of our recent history.

Patrick says

the mandarins of our Ivy League that something has gone very wrong in this country for a decade or more

Look at the Democrat arguments as far as before the Supreme Court. They were out of their element as far as trying to give a comprehensive and logical argument.

Why ? Because they been coddled in a justice system that is pro-Democrat and pro-left wing authoritarian. So they are not use to being outside their kangaroo court environment and their legal arguments being scrutinized.

Yes, another example of how "diversity" undermines competence.

UkraineIsFucked says

Yep. And here come the memes:

AD says

Patrick says

the mandarins of our Ivy League that something has gone very wrong in this country for a decade or more

Look at the Democrat arguments as far as before the Supreme Court. They were out of their element as far as trying to give a comprehensive and logical argument.

Why ? Because they been coddled in a justice system that is pro-Democrat and pro-left wing authoritarian. So they are not use to being outside their kangaroo court environment and their legal arguments being scrutinized.

Yep.

Putin gives a perspective on Russian and Ukrainian history, with a dive into post-Cold War international politics as he sees it for 2 hours.

Meanwhile, Biden sounds like angry Grandpa denying that he left the Mr. Coffee on for days and claiming the sandwich covered in green fluff in the fridge, he made last night. He lasts a few minutes before storming off, returning to mix up the President of Egypt with Mexico, and storms off again.

"I don't need to go to the damn Assisted Living! You just want to sell my house!"

There’s a Minsk Agreement that NATO would not expand East, and Ukraine to remain neutral. NATO and Ukraine didn’t keep their promise. Ukraine allowed the US to build a military base next to Russia. Russia pleaded, but his plead felt in deaf ear so he had to act to protect his country and interests.

This reminds me of the Cuba missile crisis. How would the US feel if Canada and/or Mexico allows Russia, or China, to build a military next to the US?

I don’t like Putin and Xi. Dictators are my way or the highway. However, Putin made some good points. The US and NATO are not innocent. They have blood on their hands in this war. They blew up Nordstream and tried to blame it on Russia. It’s not entire Putin’s fault. He was pushed to invade to protect his country and interests.

Eman says

I don’t like Putin and Xi. Dictators are my way or the highway. However, Putin made some good points. The US and NATO are not innocent. They have blood on their hands in this war. They blew up Nordstream and tried to blame it on Russia. It’s not entire Putin’s fault. He was pushed to invade to protect his country and interests

Well, well, well. You and I are on agreement about something.

Whereas @socal2 on this issue is all...

Eman says

I don’t like Putin and Xi. Dictators are my way or the highway. However, Putin made some good points. The US and NATO are not innocent. They have blood on their hands in this war. They blew up Nordstream and tried to blame it on Russia. It’s not entire Putin’s fault. He was pushed to invade to protect his country and interests.

Or Putin could have just extracted the resources under his soil, paid for the Donbas and called it a day. Instead he went straight for the capital of Ukraine. Regardless of who was in charge it was a bull shit move and he failed. Russia looks like the ass in all this even though they'll get what they want. It was a massive embarrassment.

It was one of the worst executed military invasions in history. Russia was a dumb ass and announced it for months. They thought they'd just knock it out in a week. They got their asses handed to them. 2 years later.... war still goes on. For what? That region will be at war for a decade. Could have just bought it.

WookieMan says

Or Putin could have just extracted the resources under his soil, paid for the Donbas and called it a day.

You think all Russia wanted was the Donbass? Come on Wookie.

Kiev used to be the capital of Russia historically.
"The city is still considered a sacred place for all Orthodox Christians in Russia and Ukraine. It was also the first capital of the Russian State, which at that time was known as Kiev Russ. From Kiev you move to magnificent Moscow, the present capital of Russia and its business and cultural center."
https://www.studycountry.com/wiki/was-kiev-ever-the-capital-of-russia

GNL says

WookieMan says

Or Putin could have just extracted the resources under his soil, paid for the Donbas and called it a day.

You think all Russia wanted was the Donbass? Come on Wookie.

It's all they needed. That's why it was flipping stupid. I don't care if Ukraine is glassed over with a nuke. Russia and Putin look like an absolute idiot at this point. 100% failure. Not even debatable.

And yes, our own POTUS looks like a complete incompetent 99% of the time. So I'm not being a homer.

WookieMan says

GNL says

WookieMan says

Or Putin could have just extracted the resources under his soil, paid for the Donbas and called it a day.

You think all Russia wanted was the Donbass? Come on Wookie.

It's all they needed. That's why it was flipping stupid. I don't care if Ukraine is glassed over with a nuke. Russia and Putin look like an absolute idiot at this point. 100% failure. Not even debatable.

"It's all they needed."?
According to who? If you believe our own government isn't any better than Russia's, it should be clear why other countries, if they are able, to do things with a longer term view, perhaps?