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What do we even need the military for? Who's gonna attack us? Mexico? Canada? Puhleeze!

RWSGFY says

What do we even need the military for? Who's gonna attack us? Mexico? Canada? Puhleeze!

The Founding Fathers put in the Constitution only a need for an active duty Navy.

The standing "army" or ground force the Founding Fathers envisioned was the Marine Corps which was attached to the US Navy, as in the Marine Corps hymn includes "the shores of Tripoli".

The Founding Fathers did not want a standing or active duty Army. They wanted the states militia to be available to defend the country against an invading army.
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AD says

They wanted the states militia to be available to defend the country against an invading army.

Yep
Every able bodied person should keep and bear arms. There are already a LOT of foreign invaders in this country waiting to attack.

AD says

.... defend the country against an invading army.

.... but only if GDP per capita is to everybody's satisfaction. 🤡

Onvacation says

Every able bodied person should keep and bear arms. There are already a LOT of foreign invaders in this country waiting to attack.

Yeah, I'd like to keep and bear an F-35, plz. All expenses paid, of course. Not sure how I'm going to combine my day job with all the time required to train and stay current on that thing though. Maybe the state would compensate me the lost income if have to quit my job in order to be 100% up to the task to blast foreign invaders at a minute notice...

Eric Holder says

Yeah, I'd like to keep and bear an F-35

Are you trolling?

Eric Holder says

Maybe the state would compensate me the lost income if have to quit my job in order to be 100% up to the task to blast foreign invaders at a minute notice...

You don't need to quit your job to arm and train yourself with a shotgun, pistol, or AR15. We had F4 jet fighters and Bell Huey Cobra attack helicopters against Viet Cong wearing pajamas and carrying AK-47's. They kicked our butts.

The most important reason for amendment 2 is to stop tyrannical governments from taking ALL of our rights. The additional benefit of having an armed populace is to dissuade an enemy from invading.

When someone asked the Swiss if they feared the Nazi army which was twice as big as the Swiss army, the answer was, "No, we'll just have to shoot twice.

Onvacation says

Are you trolling?

Dead serious. You don't plan to employ any sophisticated military equipment in the militia? How is it going to hold its own against any even semi-modern state military?

Onvacation says

You don't need to quit your job to arm and train yourself with a shotgun, pistol, or AR15. We had F4 jet fighters and Bell Huey Cobra attack helicopters against Viet Cong wearing pajamas and carrying AK-47's. They kicked our butts.

We were fighting with stupid restraints like "never cross the line into the North and go for their capital", "never hold ground but re-take it over and over", etc. And they were fighting with full support of USSR and Chyna (and 50K and 100K troops from them respectively, according to the latest batch archives opened by Vietnam govt). Also, are you 100% sure they only had ak-47 and no MiGs (-17, -19, -21), SAMs (S-75, S-125), MANPADs (Strela), artillery, etc? And what was that thing Hanoi Jane was sitting on - AK-47 or modern Soviet anti-aircraft gun? How's the weather in the alternative universe?

And have you checked the relative body counts (850K vs 58K i.e. 15 theirs to 1 ours)? Are you willing to pay this kind of price?

PS. And no, they technically never kicked our butt: we were subwerted by leftie jornos and holllyweird actors from within, demoralized and persuaded to quit.

Eric Holder says

You don't plan to employ any sophisticated military equipment in the militia?

How did the Vietnamese beat all invaders?
French, American, Chinese, all were beat by Vietnam and now they have a prosperous, independent, country.

Eric Holder says

we were subwerted by leftie jornos

We still are.

Eric Holder says

demoralized and persuaded to quit.

Never should have been there in the first place. Vietnam was a deep state grift.

Onvacation says

Eric Holder says

You don't plan to employ any sophisticated military equipment in the militia?

How did the Vietnamese beat all invaders?
French, American, Chinese, all were beat by Vietnam and now they have a prosperous, independent, country.

With Soviet and Chinese arms and shitload of bodies. MiG-21 was state of the art tech back then and this is what they deployed against F-4s, not AK-47, LOL. Your fantasy of peasant army with sticks and stones easily defeating modern armies is just that - fantasy.

Even our very own Revolutionary war was fought and won with superior, not inferior equipment and tactics (much more rifles than smoothbores, aimed fire vs volleys, etc).

RWSGFY says

Your fantasy of peasant army with sticks and stones easily defeating modern armies is just that - fantasy.

Who had that fantasy? And what are you guys trying to say? It's senseless to try to fight with small arms? Or you have to have fighter planes and tanks to win a war?RWSGFY says

Even our very own Revolutionary war was fought and won with superior, not inferior equipment and tactics (much more rifles than smoothbores, aimed fire vs volleys, etc).

The British had state of the art "man of war" ships, organized, well trained, armies, and an empire where, "The sun never set". Chinese or "Soviet" soldiers are more likely to desert and join us than defeat us.

@RWSGFY @Eric Holder Do you guys think citizens should be armed? If so for what purpose?

Why is everyone talking about Vietnam as an example of low-tech vs high-tech war when the Taliban is a more recent example.

Eric Holder says

(850K vs 58K i.e. 15 theirs to 1 ours)

In fairness, those are MBA collected stats.

The "Body Count" was the order of the day. So if two fingers, a limb, two corpses, and a blood trail was found, that's 5 KIA and 1 WIA

5 KIAs counted by Infantry, Close Air Support, Artillery, so 15 KIAs.

Just like the combined drug busts of the 80s and 90s - each agency claimed 5 tons of coke, so if four agencies were involved, the government impounded 20 tons of coke

Officers who didn't get their Body Count were passed over and mustered out. Ironically, XOs who were left back in Germany got promoted faster than those who volunteered for service in Vietnam. One of the reasons is they avoided low Body Count allegations while running a unit above their pay grade for a time - demonstrating their skill and promotability.

It was probably more like 500K to 60K. Still pretty close to 10:1

HeadSet says

Why is everyone talking about Vietnam as an example of low-tech vs high-tech war when the Taliban is a more recent example.

Both are examples of US fleeing not because it was defeated on the battlefield. In both cases we've chosen to leave, not forced to.

Not limited to Vietnam either. You should see the Pacific War claims. Far fewer Jap submarines sunk than claimed, but they never pulled any unit or individual awards. Surface ships too.

Somebody joked once that every Japanese sub was sunk 4 times, and every ship 5 times, but several survived the war.

RWSGFY says

Both are examples of US fleeing not because it was defeated on the battlefield. In both cases we've chosen to leave, not forced to.

True, but a low-tech Afghanistan did manage to chase out the USSR.

Body count instead of grabbing and holding ground and going for the heart of the enemy was a mistake flying into face of thousands of years of military thought. An MBA war indeed. This approach prolonged the war and allowed Commie moles to do their subversive work. The rest is history.

Let's not even get into dogfight claims. Everybody exaggerates those at least two times over. Sometimes 5.

And snipers, forget it. Those are exaggerated on purpose to create fear. Including your favorite sniper, I don't care if he's Finnish or Soviet or whatever.

RWSGFY says

Body count instead of grabbing and holding ground and going for the heart of the enemy was a mistake flying into face of thousands of years of military thought. An MBA war indeed. This approach prolonged the war and allowed Commie moles to do their subversive work. The rest is history.

Agreed. Ruff Puffs were the way, nobody defends land like their own. We could have made every Vietnamese landlord a millionaire to compensate for land and it would have been cheaper than a few months of that war by far.

HeadSet says

RWSGFY says

Both are examples of US fleeing not because it was defeated on the battlefield. In both cases we've chosen to leave, not forced to.

True, but a low-tech Afghanistan did manage to chase out the USSR.

Again, not because they defeated them but because oil prices have crashed (thanks to Reagan's deal with the Saudi) and Commies started to run out of dough. Back then they had to buy everything, even fucking grain, so lack of cash did bite hard and fast.

If you think losing 15K KIA over 10 years has kicked out Red Army you should be able to explain why losing 10x that in 3 didn't kick it out of Ukraine yet*. The difference now is dough: back then they didn't have Chyna and India to fall back on and now they do. And we, insted of Reagan, got ourselves a fucking potato, peeing his pants about "escalation".

*) The previous Ukie commander openly admitted that 140-150K bodycount was what he thought would bring the Commies to their senses. Alas, they don't give a fuck about their dead. Neither did NV and VC.

RWSGFY says

Again, not because they defeated them but because oil prices have crashed

Interesting, I will have to check that out.

Eric Holder says

Dead serious. You don't plan to employ any sophisticated military equipment in the militia? How is it going to hold its own against any even semi-modern state military?

Technically the Navy and Marines would. Navy would have the strategic weapons like ICBMs and nuclear armed cruise missiles, as well as the fighter / attack aircraft.

I've heard Libertarians say to streamline the Pentagon (and fully comply with the US Constitution) so its just the Navy and Marines (who fall under the Navy administratively). The Navy could have its own air force just like the Marines are its ground force.

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I see the point that if Harris wins, then expect to see during her administration the no more than the same percentage of recruits who are white male.

About 30% of Army enlisted have been black since the 1980s, whereas black people are 12.5% of the USA population.

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AD says

Technically the Navy and Marines would. Navy would have the strategic weapons like ICBMs and nuclear armed cruise missiles, as well as the fighter / attack aircraft.

Right. But these again require advanced skills only obtainable via full-time engagement, not some "weekend warrior minutemen" types. Basically proves my point that you can't get away with having a bunch of beer-bellied guys who kinda know how to shoot an AR-15 and not much more as a replacement for real military.

Eric Holder says

Right. But these again require advanced skills only obtainable via full-time engagement, not some "weekend warrior minutemen" types. Basically proves my point that you can't get away with having a bunch of beer-bellied guys who kinda know how to shoot an AR-15 and not much more as a replacement for real military.

Yes, as you need an active duty force of US Marines and Navy personnel. So yes, they would have to be adequately trained (i.e., A and C schools, etc.) and equipped (i.e., Virginia class submarine with hypersonic missiles, Aegis - equipped destroyers, F-35 fighters, etc).

The national guard militia like Tim Walz are to augment the US Marines in case the USA was invaded.

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Diversity:

RWSGFY says

Alas, they don't give a fuck about their dead. Neither did NV and VC.

Or Stalin (Putin's and Kamila's role model)

Eric Holder says

my point that you can't get away with having a bunch of beer-bellied guys who kinda know how to shoot an AR-15 and not much more as a replacement for real military.

One well placed sniper can take out the leaders and demoralize a large armed force.

https://x.com/GrahamAllen_1/status/1829247441209545042

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/baby-drivers-tuesday-september-3

The notion that the U.S. could possibly help Ukraine directly fight the Russians is a dead letter. Vox ran a long-form, well-sourced story Sunday headlined, “America isn’t ready for another war — because it doesn’t have the troops.” The sub-headline bleakly added, “The US military’s recruiting crisis, explained.”

Of course, the story explained nothing that actually exists in this matrix of reality. To give away the article’s punchline, recruitment figures across all branches of the U.S. military are so bad that Vox floated what it called the “D-word,” meaning the draft.

Vox described what it called “a political horseshoe effect,” meaning that both right-leaning and left-leaning citizens are equally eschewing military service, and “refusing to fight what they call unnecessary, unwinnable wars.” Imagine that.

The article then noted, almost in passing, the “especially sharp decline in enlistments by white men and women.” So weird.

You’ll be disappointed if you go looking in this article for any mention of diversity policies, the effect of vaccine mandates, or the military’s new obsession with promoting atypical sexual preferences in the ranks. Too late:




The article described a ‘recruiting doom loop.’ With force levels at post-WWII lows, service members are being assigned to more and more frequent overseas missions in combat zones, making life in the military generally miserable, resulting in lower recruitment levels, therefore more onerous combat assignments for active-duty soldiers, and so on, and so forth.

It’s become a race to the bottom.

Vox grudgingly admitted that a well-needed draft would be difficult. Not just politically. Americans of prime draft age are fatter and sicker than ever. Fewer than three out of ten American young adults can pass basic health and physical fitness requirements for military service.

But you know what could stop the doom loop? Fewer combat assignments. You know what could reduce combat assignments? Fewer proxy wars. If only we had a presidential candidate whose platform included fewer proxy wars and healthier Americans.

If you know of such a candidate, tell me in the comments.

https://mustreadalaska.com/army-recruiters-now-boldly-advertising-that-no-covid-vaccination-is-required-to-join-military/

Of the over 8,000 service members who were discharged for refusing the Covid-19 vaccine, only 43 have rejoined the military in the eight months following the repeal. A breakdown of the reenlistment numbers reveals that 19 rejoined the Army, 12 returned to the Marines, while the Navy saw two and Air Force saw one reenlistment. Pilots have been especially reluctant to take the shot because of reports of heart problems that arise as a result of the vaccine, problems that may disqualify them from commanding an aircraft.

https://x.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1702377630845042690

Biden hired this drag queen to HELP U.S. military recruitment.

The only way the US military can even begin to recover the trust which was absolutely obliterated by mandating the very dangerous and worse-than-ineffective toxxine is the public hanging of everyone who issued the mandates.

The only exception to hanging should be a commutation to life imprisonment for those who help to get the next higher level hanged, and so on up until we have hanged everyone at the top who issued those satanic orders for the benefit of Pfizer.

In addition, we need a Constitutional amendment to clarify that no one is ever to be compelled to inject anything under any circumstances. Absolute control over your own bloodstream is the most fundamental freedom and must be protected above all else.