patrick.net

As of October 2024, Biden-Harris have given $175 billion to 5 million Americans for student loan forgiveness.

That averages to $35,000 for each of those 5 million.

No more handouts like that. Use that ~$100 billion to build the border wall and reinforce border security.

.

I will assume that this means less traffic during my commute LOL!

AD says

As of October 2024, Biden-Harris have given $175 billion to 5 million Americans for student loan forgiveness.

That averages to $35,000 for each of those 5 million.

No more handouts like that. Use that ~$100 billion to build the border wall and reinforce border security.

.

Sure they are not reinstating this debt since they lost the election? They probably would have reinstated it anyway.

Holy shit!

Elon & Vivek just released this.

It might amount to something after all:

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/musk-and-ramaswamy-the-doge-plan-to-reform-government-supreme-court-guidance-end-executive-power-grab-fa51c020?st=DueQ9H

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

Holy shit!

Elon & Vivek just released this.

It might amount to something after all:

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/musk-and-ramaswamy-the-doge-plan-to-reform-government-supreme-court-guidance-end-executive-power-grab-fa51c020?st=DueQ9H

MAGA baby. I hope there is a massive disruption. I don't care if I lose my job, as long as I find a meaningful one.

To paraphrase James Woods in Videodrome - "Death to Globohomo, long live MAGA!"

From the article:

Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy: The DOGE Plan to Reform Government

Following the Supreme Court’s guidance, we’ll reverse a decadeslong executive power grab.

Our nation was founded on the basic idea that the people we elect run the government. That isn’t how America functions today. Most legal edicts aren’t laws enacted by Congress but “rules and regulations” promulgated by unelected bureaucrats—tens of thousands of them each year. Most government enforcement decisions and discretionary expenditures aren’t made by the democratically elected president or even his political appointees but by millions of unelected, unappointed civil servants within government agencies who view themselves as immune from firing thanks to civil-service protections.

This is antidemocratic and antithetical to the Founders’ vision. It imposes massive direct and indirect costs on taxpayers. Thankfully, we have a historic opportunity to solve the problem. On Nov. 5, voters decisively elected Donald Trump with a mandate for sweeping change, and they deserve to get it.

President Trump has asked the two of us to lead a newly formed Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, to cut the federal government down to size. The entrenched and ever-growing bureaucracy represents an existential threat to our republic, and politicians have abetted it for too long. That’s why we’re doing things differently. We are entrepreneurs, not politicians. We will serve as outside volunteers, not federal officials or employees. Unlike government commissions or advisory committees, we won’t just write reports or cut ribbons. We’ll cut costs.

We are assisting the Trump transition team to identify and hire a lean team of small-government crusaders, including some of the sharpest technical and legal minds in America. This team will work in the new administration closely with the White House Office of Management and Budget. The two of us will advise DOGE at every step to pursue three major kinds of reform: regulatory rescissions, administrative reductions and cost savings. We will focus particularly on driving change through executive action based on existing legislation rather than by passing new laws. Our North Star for reform will be the U.S. Constitution, with a focus on two critical Supreme Court rulings issued during President Biden’s tenure.

One of those opinions is on the Chevron Deference….

head count as far as full time equivalents (for civil servants) is driven by appropriation legislation approved by Congress

not sure what can be done as far as RIFs (reduction in force) given that

they could just slowly reduce the budget for "non essential" agencies and federal programs such reduce to 2% below annual inflation , so if annual inflation is 3% then the annual budget increase is no more than 1%

that would help to reduce the deficit and ultimately the debt to GDP ratio

slowly starve it

offer buyouts for early retirements

but I realize that could easily be reversed in the next administration, so I see why there is a sense of urgency with the DOGE to make more permanent reforms

AD says

No more handouts like that. Use that ~$100 billion to build the border wall and reinforce border security.

Just flew in from Cancun to Baltimore for a layover. I was a complete ass hole to the Customs agent. I said you do know you let people overstay their visa and you're the first line of defense. And they just cross the border to the south without interrogation. And once again they thought we were trafficking my nephew. Get fucked.

We got backpacks for the kids with all the national park patches they've been to sewed on. It's like the guys fucking eyes don't work. Sorry he's black. He's family. If you have a US passport just scan it at a kiosk and cut 90% of Customs. That's how I get my boarding pass for flights. Then need to take a picture of me??? Come on man I have TSA Pre, Global Entry, Passport, ID, FOID card, FAA license. I'm of zero threat.

These guys were also in basically full military gear. Bullet proof vest, the whole deal. WE ALREADY WENT THOUGH SCANNERS AND SECURITY!

Sorry, fresh because it just happened tonight. If you have a foreign passport you go to the window. If a US citizen you scan and go about your travels. You could reduce a ton of labor and bullet proof vests overnight.

Ramaswamy posted on X, “We shouldn’t let the government spend money on programs that have expired. Yet that’s exactly what happens today: half a trillion dollars of taxpayer funds ($516 B+) goes each year to programs which Congress has allowed to expire. There are 1,200+ programs that are no longer authorized but still receive appropriations. This is totally nuts. We can & should save hundreds of billions each year by defunding government programs that Congress no longer authorizes”.

https://econolog.substack.com/p/the-doge-of-washington

The Biden administration has been secretly meeting with AI companies. Their message was chilling: "Don't even bother starting AI companies. There will only be 2-3 approved companies, and we'll control them completely." This isn't speculation. These were actual closed-door conversations. They're using something called "regulatory capture." The government blesses 2-3 large companies with a monopoly. In exchange, these companies do whatever the government wants. It's how they controlled social media. Now they want to do it with AI.- Marc Andresseen (Co-founder of Netscape browser) on Joe Rogan Podcast

Ceffer says

AD says

As of October 2024, Biden-Harris have given $175 billion to 5 million Americans for student loan forgiveness.

That averages to $35,000 for each of those 5 million.

No more handouts like that. Use that ~$100 billion to build the border wall and reinforce border security.

.

Sure they are not reinstating this debt since they lost the election? They probably would have reinstated it anyway.

On the end, that money is actually bailout for BANKS. Those loans were Non-Preforming.

REpro says

On the end, that money is actually bailout for BANKS. Those loans were Non-Preforming.

This. Until you can discharge student loan debt banks will lose MORE money if one really thinks about it. Non-performing assets that sit there in limbo is money a bank cannot lend out. They'd be better off letting likely former students BK on the debt and restart. They'll then borrow again at higher interest rates. Buy houses. Build businesses.

Instead you've locked them in debt jail and you can't make money off them in the future as a bank or them as a citizen that could pay taxes. It's really a lose lose policy. The university admins are the only winners in this scenario.

Uhhhhhhh, the debt that was forgiven was issued and held by the Federal Government. It was not held by private entities.

It was a gift from YOU the taxpayers.

Misc says

Uhhhhhhh, the debt that was forgiven was issued and held by the Federal Government. It was not held by private entities.

It was a gift from YOU the taxpayers.

I've had student loans. The government backing is a guarantee that the student will pay it. So banks lend to students knowing they aren't allowed to default. The forgiveness was making the BANKS whole again as Repro mentions. The banks got their money back and any interest paid along the way.

Private banks 100% loan the money. Biden just decided to take Federal money and give it to banks as "loan forgiveness." The money never went to the former student. It went straight to the bank they borrowed from. Libs use terms like "forgiveness" for a reason. They can't say bank forgiveness. That's what it was.

Students should be able to default it and if the bank loses money so be it. This was 100% a bank bailout and a future voter buyout. It didn't work.

WookieMan says

Private banks 100% loan the money. Biden just decided to take Federal money and give it to banks as "loan forgiveness." The money never went to the former student. It went straight to the bank they borrowed from. Libs use terms like "forgiveness" for a reason. They can't say bank forgiveness. That's what it was.

You are absolutely wrong. It is the Department of Education that makes and holds Federal Student Loans. There is no bank loaning the coin.

There is only a small amount of privately issued student debt issued by banks. Usually this requires a cosigner in the form of parents with decent income. Since it is private debt, Biden cannot touch it.

Tip. Government never lends money (or DOE). Budget is negative for so many years. Government borrows money from FED (issue Bonds) to survive. Banks lends money always. Thats their business.
Private issued students' debt was not covered by "loan forgiveness". Only government guarantee loans. I know, I had private bank student loan.
Biden just make with this political circus, why not?

REpro says

Tip. Government never lends money (or DOE). Budget is negative for so many years. Government borrows money from FED (issue Bonds) to survive. Banks lends money always. Thats their business.

Yes. You clarified my point. Fact is you cannot default on student loan private debt or any student loan debt that you "think" is federal, it's government "backed" as in you have to repay it. Not paid for by the government, but a bank. Loan forgiveness is a bail out to private banks and 3rd party companies that service the loans. It's a vote buy and banker buy for votes.

Biden knew he was delusional and up shits creek and thought he could buy his way out of it with debt forgiveness. All it did was piss people off. Trump needs to make all debt dischargeable in BK. They call it government backed to fool you. It worked.

Misc says

WookieMan says

Private banks 100% loan the money. Biden just decided to take Federal money and give it to banks as "loan forgiveness." The money never went to the former student. It went straight to the bank they borrowed from. Libs use terms like "forgiveness" for a reason. They can't say bank forgiveness. That's what it was.

You are absolutely wrong. It is the Department of Education that makes and holds Federal Student Loans. There is no bank loaning the coin.

There is only a small amount of privately issued student debt issued by banks. Usually this requires a cosigner in the form of parents with decent income. Since it is private debt, Biden cannot touch it.

Yup. Ever since Obama nationalized student loans. There are a few 'non-profit' banks that still do because they were tied to some Dem big wigs he needed to pass that bill.

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

Misc says

WookieMan says

Private banks 100% loan the money. Biden just decided to take Federal money and give it to banks as "loan forgiveness." The money never went to the former student. It went straight to the bank they borrowed from. Libs use terms like "forgiveness" for a reason. They can't say bank forgiveness. That's what it was.

You are absolutely wrong. It is the Department of Education that makes and holds Federal Student Loans. There is no bank loaning the coin.

There is only a small amount of privately issued student debt issued by banks. Usually this requires a cosigner in the form of parents with decent income. Since it is private debt, Biden cannot touch it.

Yup. Ever since Obama nationalized student loans. There are a few 'non-profit' banks that still do because they were tied to some Dem big wigs he needed to pass that bill.

🤦‍♂️ Government BACKED LOANS! They cannot be discharged. Public or private can be forgiven. Basically every single loan outside of a loan taken out by a student on their own which is maybe 5% or less. It was a FED and bank bailout. BANKS. FED is not government giving money out. Not even a debate. You have to pay the loan and Biden just forgave a ton.

We need to remove the BK restrictions or massively cut college funding. That's the point.

WookieMan says

Government BACKED LOANS! They cannot be discharged. Public or private can be forgiven. Basically every single loan outside of a loan taken out by a student on their own which is maybe 5% or less. It was a FED and bank bailout. BANKS. FED is not government giving money out. Not even a debate. You have to pay the loan and Biden just forgave a ton.

You are wrong. The government made the Federal Student Loans and they are on the government's books -- not a Banks.

Read up on it.

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

Yup. Ever since Obama nationalized student loans. There are a few 'non-profit' banks that still do because they were tied to some Dem big wigs he needed to pass that bill.

@WookieMan ^^^

And:

https://www.axios.com/2022/08/27/the-impact-of-student-loan-nationalization

Repro covered it pretty clearly. Bonds. That's a loan banks buy and lend upon. Let me know the servicer of your student loan debt? I can promise you it's not the Federal government. They borrow from a BANK called the FED. That's not Federal government. It's just called that.

The US has instituted a policy that doesn't allow default. AKA FUCKING GOVERNMENT BACKED. The government won't let you default regardless. The money still comes from a bank not the government, The FED is a bank. They sell bonds to cover it and pay 3rd parties and GUARANTEE it.

Some of you cats don't understand the play on words you've been fed. 95% of all student loans HAVE to be paid regardless of source. There's no out. Government backed. They agree you don't have to pay your debt. Colleges would shut down overnight if student loans could be defaulted and not paid.

The servicer of the debt works for the Department of Education which holds the loans on its books. There is no bank involved. The debt cancellation was NOT a fucking bank bailout.

"But what exactly does “cost the government” mean? Canceled federal student loans would be immediately added to the federal deficit, which measures how much the U.S. spends minus how much it takes in."*

Why deficit? Government has to borrows money (from Federal Reserve-FED and pay interest on it) to pay off variety of banks, which borrowed money for students. D.O.E DOES NOT HAVE A PENNY TO BORROW.

"Canceling federal student loans will cost the federal government hundreds of billions of dollars— and the general public will eventually end up footing the bill."*
*Forbes advisor

REpro says

"But what exactly does “cost the government” mean? Canceled federal student loans would be immediately added to the federal deficit, which measures how much the U.S. spends minus how much it takes in."

Why deficit? Government has to borrows money (from Federal Reserve-FED and pay interest on it) to pay off variety of banks, which borrowed money for students. D.O.E DOES NOT HAVE A PENNY TO BORROW.

"Canceling federal student loans will cost the federal government hundreds of billions of dollars— and the general public will eventually end up footing the bill."
*Forbes advisor

You are so wrong about so many things. The DOE money that went to the students was already funded through the sale of US Treasuries. The loans to the students are on the books of the DOE as they directly loaned the money to the students. It is the Treasury that sells the bills, notes and bonds. These obligations are to the purchasers of that security not to the FED. The Treasury does not borrow money directly from the FED. Again no banks are part of the loan transaction to the student borrowers.

The only thing that you are correct on is that the general public will eat the cost of the loan cancellation either through taxes or inflation.

Financial world is difficult to understand.

WookieMan says

Private banks 100% loan the money. Biden just decided to take Federal money and give it to banks as "loan forgiveness." The money never went to the former student. It went straight to the bank they borrowed from.

None of that is true concerning Federal Student Loans.
Available through the US Department of Education, federal student loans are loans from the federal government that you can use to pay for higher education expenses.
These loans are FROM the federal government itself, not just backed by the federal government.

https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/how-do-student-loans-work

HeadSet says

WookieMan says

Private banks 100% loan the money. Biden just decided to take Federal money and give it to banks as "loan forgiveness." The money never went to the former student. It went straight to the bank they borrowed from.

None of that is true concerning Federal Student Loans.
Available through the US Department of Education, federal student loans are loans from the federal government that you can use to pay for higher education expenses.
These loans are FROM the federal government itself, not just backed by the federal government.

https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/how-do-student-loans-work

The FED is a bank. Our government sells bonds to cover it. It's a bank. The federal government does not loan the money itself directly from tax payers. It's all borrowed from a bank/bonds. Then backed by the federal government. If I pay $100 in taxes and let's say say $1 goes to student loans, 100% of that is paid to students by a bank, not the government. The government is the guarantor that it will be repaid. Federally backed.

Wife and I had student loans about a decade ago. Nothing was from the federal government. I'm kind of the active baby on this site. No one seems to have college aged kids or kids at all or ever had student loans. Banks loan the money, not the government. They just back that you cannot default. Not sure what's hard to understand here.

TL:DR - Federal loans are from the FED. A PRIVATE BANK. Other loans are from private banks that the government also backs. College kids are never given a dime from the federal budget besides covering the interest.

WookieMan says

Wife and I had student loans about a decade ago. Nothing was from the federal government.

Yes. And since then the business was nationalized.

Good luck, finding in Federal Government budget position, which point on portion of taxpayers money is dedicated or given to DOE specifically for students' loans.

WookieMan says

The university admins are the only winners in this scenario.

The quality of education that students get in undergraduate school is poor too.

gabbar says

WookieMan says

The university admins are the only winners in this scenario.

The quality of education that students get in undergraduate school is poor too.

It was a waste of time for me. Get the experience in the field. An engineer doesn't need to know about the civil war. Does it really make them more educated? I'd rather have a top notch engineer versus someone that can kind of engineer and knows about Gettysburg. Right?

You do that stuff on your free time. If I'm a doctor I can read history in my free time. I don't need to be taught it or take classes. You should be smart enough.

Liberals have too many problems and especially around gender and illegal immigration.. But unlike conservatives they understand danger from BRICS especially Hindu and 🇷🇺.

MAGA crowd is either naive or not loyal to 🇺🇸.

Shia Muslims + BRICs are on one side.
USA + Saudi lead Sunnis + Western Europe on other side.

https://nypost.com/2024/12/05/us-news/only-6-of-federal-workers-show-up-in-person-on-a-full-time-basis-scathing-senate-report-reveals/

Top DOGE Elon Musk, House speaker balk at Senate report showing only 6% of federal workers show up in person on full-time basis: ‘Absurd’