patrick.net

RWSGFY says

I don't understand what the fuck VAT has to do with anything. It's applied to all goods - domestic and imported. What does it have to do with us? What is the endgame here: make them drop VAT on their domestic goods or only on our impored? We don't treat domestic and imported goods differently when collecting a sales tax, do we?

VAT is a red herring.

Agreed, VAT has zero to do with tariffs since it applies to all products, domestic and foreign

RWSGFY says

I don't understand what the fuck VAT has to do with anything. It's applied to all goods - domestic and imported.

mell says

Agreed, VAT has zero to do with tariffs since it applies to all products, domestic and foreign

VAT rates are applied AFTER the tariffs and many other fees are already added into the taxable base cost. Americans can't formulate this in their minds because taxes in the US...especially income taxes but also most gas and most sales taxes are only applied additionally to the original taxable cost, not to an accumulated one.

So say a product that is imported to, say Germany, is valued at €10,000. Then imagine it gets hit with a 25% tariff. Then that forms the base for the VAT calculation of another 25% (Germany's highest and average VAT rate).

So, €10,000 + €2,500 (25% tariff) = €12,500
THEN VAT: €12,500 + €3,125 (25% VAT on €12,500) = €15,625.

Oh, and GUESS WHAT the additional local sales tax, if any, gets levied on? That's right...the new €15,625 base cost, not the €10,000 imported cost.

So if Trump can get the Eloi fucks to abolish their tariffs, THEN the lalala land of 'VATs apply to both domestic & imported' you two actually believe it is might actually come to be.

DeportLibtards says

VAT rates are applied AFTER the tariffs are.

And? It's their internal business. Whether they have VAT or not does not change how our goods compete on their market. Tariffs do.

personal

personal

HeadSet says

DeportLibtards says

Actually, cars are the UK's biggest export to the US, not just North America. Not sure how price sensitive the British cars are since they are prestige brands like Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Land Rover.

HeadSet says

DeportLibtards says

Actually, cars are the UK's biggest export to the US, not just North America. Not sure how price sensitive the British cars are since they are prestige brands like Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Land Rover.

Actually Jaguar (I’ve owned several) and Landrover are now owned by Tata Motors, based in India.

Interestingly there is no tariff on cheap whores, vodka and bears imported from the USSR. And we do have $2.5B trade deficit with them, believe it or not. Is Donnie a Soviet agent after all?

HeadSet says

British cars are since they are prestige brands like Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Land Rover.

Very few people buy those cars. Most likely is the Land Rover brand. And as another comment mentions they are piles of trash that need constant repair. Unless you're in CA or FL those types of cars are extremely expensive to get work done on anyway.

The other brands are all "status" for guys that are losers that fell into money somehow or their wives want one and they're out busting their ass to make a good 6 figure income or 7. There's no need for an expensive car ever.

I think before POTUS Trump drove himself around in an SUV that was American made. Probably a luxury model with all the bells and whistle, but likely under $100k.

From my standpoint I don't care if the prices of cars goes up. I buy one every 7-9 years, so it really doesn't influence me financially. Also it will be a big boost for the used car market for the Euro cars. More transfer of money amongst Americans instead of foreigners since that already happened.

The next problem people aren't seeing is state government. If more jobs come back and there are more local transactions, what is your state doing with that money? 5,000 more USA made cars were sold this month, what is that tax revenue doing? We all like to chat about the federal government but ultimately the rubber meets the road in your state for your personal life.

Expensive cars are fun and a great way to meet other people. Especially the classic car guys. I’m taking the grandkids to the Ocean City Cruise in this May. An almost week long yearly event where people show off cars they’ve spent ungodly amounts of money on. I’ve seen custom restomods that people have spent $2,000,000 on. Pieces of art they are.

It takes time to build a car manufacturing plant and get it going. Not sure how much, but my guess would be at least 6 months. In meantime there will be inflation similar to one caused by Covid shortages.

Why this wasn't rolled out with a proper lead time is a mystery to me. Long-term there is no difference but short-term there will be much unnecessary inflation. And the guy ran on the promise to lower prices "on the day one", for fuck's sake.

Glock-n-Load says

I’ve seen custom restomods that people have spent $2,000,000 on. Pieces of art they are.

I know you're a car guy. I don't like any art, car or otherwise. It's a limited market. I get what you are saying, I just don't think many people care. You have to spend a lot to potentially get a decent return. Shouldn't really use it except for shows or a weekend drive. So what's the point? I'd rather sit back and invest in something else.

I have a canned ham 1963 camper I got for $1k a while back. I could fix that up and sell it for $15-20k at $5k costs into it. So I do get the hobby of cars, I was more talking about people using them as daily drivers that are $100k or more. Not logical in my world. Driving isn't fun and it's all about utility for me. The less I'm in a car the better. No need for speed or style. Just a car that will destroy another car if they're driving like idiots around you.

RWSGFY says

Why this wasn't rolled out with a proper lead time is a mystery to me. Long-term there is no difference but short-term there will be much unnecessary inflation. And the guy ran on the promise to lower prices "on the day one", for fuck's sake.

Not wrong at all. But we all knew or at least I did, this was going to be a shit storm with tariffs. Trump is ripping the bandaid off. Yes it will hurt for 10 seconds (10 months in real time) but it needed to happen.

He talked tariffs for a while while campaigning. This isn't new. It's April and the election was Nov. 2024. We also just ended Q1 2025. Investors make adjustments. I know reports aren't out, but it's future looking.

Who knows what shorts, puts, covered calls and other investing lingo is happening. I don't know it. I don't buy German cars and don't care about Germans. People are going to lose jobs. A reset needs to happen.

We can't protect other nations and then get butt fucked with tariffs on our exports. We're really the worlds bitch right now. We'll ultimately have to save the day again at some point and the world knows that. They have no leverage. We don't need imports from anyone outside of this hemisphere and we generally get along with most nations here. Does anyone actually "need" a Mercedes? Nope. Walk around your house for 10 minutes. Most the shit is trash anyway.

Nobody builds factories on just talk. Businesses need to know the specifics, which were not provided until yesterday. The bandaid analogy is stupid. Absolutely unnecessary unforced error IMO. But hey, enjoy your inflation. Apparently it's a good thing now. 🤡

RWSGFY says

Nobody builds factories on just talk. Businesses need to know the specifics, which were not provided until yesterday. The bandaid analogy is stupid. Absolutely unnecessary unforced error IMO. But hey, enjoy your inflation. Apparently it's a good thing now. 🤡

I'm biased. Inflation doesn't hurt me. I'm pissed my beer is up $4 a case over the last 5 years. But that's $4 two to three times a month. Oh my god I'm poor now. I don't buy cars. Groceries my wife is amazing at getting deals. We have a stand up freezer and grab expiration date sale meat and freeze it.

Poor people are going to have to suffer for a bit. Hell most of them are on food stamps so it doesn't matter. If you're middle class this is a big nothing burger. Housing will go down. Cars might go up. All of this is not a big deal if you have a job. The problem is everyone bitching about it doesn't have one. Sorry?

Ford seizes the day by offering Employee discount to all consumers

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ford-motor-company-offer-employee-pricing-all-u-s-shoppers-handshake-deal-every-american

Volvo (now owned by CHYna) announces expansion of US Domestic Car Production
https://insiderpaper.com/carmaker-volvo-to-step-up-us-production-after-tariffs/

The Founding Father's very first Congress imposed the All-American Tariff, signed into law by President George Washington!

Tariffs far higher than Trump's turned America into an industrial powerhouse, while no/low tariff South America languished undeveloped for 150 years as they imported finished goods from Europe. Every Latin American train engine was made overseas, almost from day one the USA was making it's own.

Broaden the tax base not by taxing the working poor and middle class, but foreign imports! Why tax ourselves? Charge the foreign vendors to enter the City's Market Fair!

We love our BBTs!

RWSGFY says

And? It's their internal business. Whether they have VAT or not does not change how our goods compete on their market. Tariffs do.

I just demonstrated that is not the case. Are you just trolling to avoid not admitting you are wrong or is it because you can't follow the math?

They've been using the Robotics excuse for 30 years. It's all about lowest wages.

If Robotics was the reason, the huge supply of skilled engineers and some of the cheapest electric IN THE WORLD $/kwh (esp. vs. China, Mexico, Vietnam as well as the EU) would mean MOAR, not less, US Factories.

SharkyP says

Actually Jaguar (I’ve owned several) and Landrover are now owned by Tata Motors, based in India.

Yes, and Rolls Royce is owned by BMW. But both are still built in Britain and exported to the US. Ownership of the companies does not affect the cars as prestige brands that are less sensitive to increased prices.

I love Jaguars, especially the XJS. I had one friend restore a 63 XKE and another friend restore a 67 XKE. A guy where I used to work had a later model Jaguar non-convertible with a Ford engine.

HeadSet says

I love Jaguars, especially the XJS. I had one friend restore a 63 XKE and another friend restore a 67 XKE. A guy where I used to work had a later model Jaguar non-convertible with a Ford engine.

Those were beautiful looking cars. Inevitably, an engine swap would be necessary. That XKE hood was a mile long to accommodate the 12- cylinder engine.

AmericanKulak says

They've been using the Robotics excuse for 30 years. It's all about lowest wages.

If Robotics was the reason, the huge supply of skilled engineers and some of the cheapest electric IN THE WORLD $/kwh (esp. vs. China, Mexico, Vietnam as well as the EU) would mean MOAR, not less, US Factories.

Yup.

Oh, it's going to happen. Is happening. But this whole globalization thing was about fucking over American workers for cheaper foreign workers, not robots.

So 900 Chrysler workers just lost their jobs. Why? Because nobody can built a plant missing from the supply chain in one day. You need 5-6-7. Were the tariffs implemented with a reasonable lead time these people would still be employed during the transition period. But hey, their discomfort means it's working, right? Where did I hear that?... "Your Bells palsy means vaccine is working", that's where.

RWSGFY says

So 900 Chrysler workers just lost their jobs.

In Canada, right?

HeadSet says

RWSGFY says

So 900 Chrysler workers just lost their jobs.

In Canada, right?

Yep, in Canada. It's part of their 4500 reduction in personnel throughout the Stellantis. - Mostly was going on before tariffs.

HeadSet says

RWSGFY says

So 900 Chrysler workers just lost their jobs.

In Canada, right?

Only for somebody as bad at geography as "richwicks". For the rest of us the affected plants - Warren Stamping and Sterling Stamping plants (Michigan), Indiana Transmission Plant, Kokomo Transmission Plant and Kokomo Casting Plant (Indiana) - are in the US.

And not "before the tariffs":

Stellantis has said it is temporarily laying off 900 workers across five U.S. facilities following the announcement of sweeping tariffs from President Donald Trump, Reuters reported.

OK, explain this one:

“Trump’s decision to put a 32 percent tariff on Switzerland stunned politicians and business leaders in the Alpine country. Switzerland has an open trade policy and recently abolished all industrial tariffs, including on goods from the United States, which is also its largest export market.”

What tariff should Switzerland lower to avoid this "reciprocal" tariff? They have nothing to lower anymore, it's literally 0%. Shall they pay the US importers now?

RWSGFY says

OK, explain this one:

“Trump’s decision to put a 32 percent tariff on Switzerland stunned politicians and business leaders in the Alpine country. Switzerland has an open trade policy and recently abolished all industrial tariffs, including on goods from the United States, which is also its largest export market.”

What tariff should Switzerland lower to avoid this "reciprocal" tariff? They have nothing to lower anymore, it's literally 0%. Shall they pay the US importers now?

It's the biggest friggin' currency manipulator in the entire world.

RWSGFY says

OK, explain this one:

“Trump’s decision to put a 32 percent tariff on Switzerland stunned politicians and business leaders in the Alpine country. Switzerland has an open trade policy and recently abolished all industrial tariffs, including on goods from the United States, which is also its largest export market.”

What tariff should Switzerland lower to avoid this "reciprocal" tariff? They have nothing to lower anymore, it's literally 0%. Shall they pay the US importers now?

It seemed the 10% tariff on countries like Australia were arbitrary as the USA has a trade surplus not deficit with them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c705z2e8wxzo

.

AD says

It seemed the 10% tariff on countries like Australia were arbitrary as the USA has a trade surplus not deficit with them.

Yep, the US sold the Ozzies a handful of attack submarines. They are kinda expensive, but it distorts regular trade reporting.

AmericanKulak says

They've been using the Robotics excuse for 30 years. It's all about lowest wages.

If Robotics was the reason, the huge supply of skilled engineers and some of the cheapest electric IN THE WORLD $/kwh (esp. vs. China, Mexico, Vietnam as well as the EU) would mean MOAR, not less, US Factories.

From what I've researched making basic socks is vastly an automated manufacturing process. https://www.meetsocks.com/socks-manufacturing-process.html#:~:text=4.,is%20the%202nd%20inline%2Dinspection.

There are other factors like "state owned industries" or heavily subsidized industries which is prevalent in Communist China.

Also federal-to-town government regulations like OSHA and local zoning are another factor as well as supply chain challenges.

.

AD says

Also federal-to-town government regulations like OSHA and local zoning are another factor as well as supply chain challenges.

... And the EPA has been on a warpath against American manufacturing to such an extent that a reasonable person would assume it is run by the CCP.

RWSGFY says

So 900 Chrysler workers just lost their jobs. Why?

Stellantis has been having Libertarded Girlboss management problems for years, massive unsold inventory, 70% drop in profits and this was going on since Q1 2024. They just promoted a flailing failing girlboss of underperforming divisions to CEO last December.

Cars (esp overpriced trucks) have been piling up at Dealerships for well over a year now. Also big quality control problems at several plants.

The same retards who celebrate Luigi, burning Teslas, and want a carbon tax are the same people moaning about tariffs.

How dare they put a tariff on the country of Hitler's bank (Bank of International Settlements). Just because the Swiss Octagon is the mother of all plots against the world? What soreheads.RWSGFY says

OK, explain this one:

“Trump’s decision to put a 32 percent tariff on Switzerland stunned politicians and business leaders in the Alpine country. Switzerland has an open trade policy and recently abolished all industrial tariffs, including on goods from the United States, which is also its largest export market.”

What tariff should Switzerland lower to avoid this "reciprocal" tariff? They have nothing to lower anymore, it's literally 0%. Shall they pay the US importers now?

Wish we had X back in the 90s...

The bullshit Dems are pushing now..