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Ideological differences in the expanse of the moral circle


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2025 Jul 9, 5:19pm   194 views  9 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   ignore (2)  

Finally saw an explanation for that heatmap graph which was so popular a while ago:



I don't understand why it's circular though. What does up and to the right mean here?

The the original article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0

Found that link here:

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/the-most-important-idea-in-current

Comments 1 - 9 of 9        Search these comments

1   Ceffer   2025 Jul 9, 5:24pm  

LOL! It goes all the way from one degree of separation to animism for ethical and moral boundaries.

I think they show that conservatives feel more ethical and moral obligation to those who are closest to them in degree of separation, while the libby fantasists treat those closest them with low ethics while demanding that fantasist degrees of separation should have higher ethics than they even provide for their own families and acquaintances. It seems to fit.

I remember a woman from Boston talking about Californians: "They kick their dog on the way out the door to the animal rights demonstration." For them, the 'ideology' is more important than the proximate behavior and reality. Ideology is a form of social control without true conscience or ethics.
2   DeficitHawk   2025 Jul 10, 7:37am  

Individualism vs collectivism is a core difference in the belief system between conservatives and liberals.

I don't know anything about this study, and haven't read it... but the graph sort of seems like it is just visualizing this difference.
3   rocketjoe79   2025 Jul 10, 9:29am  

Why can't we all just get along?!?
4   DeficitHawk   2025 Jul 10, 1:44pm  

rocketjoe79 says


Why can't we all just get along?!?


Hah... while I dont think it helps everyone get along, I DO think it helps people understand where others are coming from...

For example... Why do democrats support more invasive regulation, while republicans usually want less regulation? Simple... Collectivists/universalists place higher value on the common interests of society and want rules enforced to protect them, so they accept regulations even if they are burdensome to their own personal interests. Individualists/parochialists don't put as much value on common interests and want less interference in pursuing their own interests.

Its one of, (and maybe the most) fundamental theme in why democrats and republicans want different policies.
5   HeadSet   2025 Jul 10, 2:16pm  

DeficitHawk says

Why do democrats support more invasive regulation, while republicans usually want less regulation?

One group wants to control everyone; the other group wants to be left alone.
6   DeficitHawk   2025 Jul 10, 2:22pm  

HeadSet says


One group wants to control everyone; the other group wants to be left alone.

That's a parochialist viewpoint on it, yes.

The universalist would say "One group wants the freedom to dump toxic waste in my drinking water and everyone else has to live with it".

Its the classic problem of tragedy of the commons. You can have protect common interests at the cost of inhibiting personal freedom. People don't agree which is most important.
7   HeadSet   2025 Jul 10, 2:30pm  

DeficitHawk says

That's a parochialist viewpoint on it, yes.

Yes, as a response to this blatant parochial view: "Collectivists/universalists place higher value on the common interests of society and want rules enforced to protect them, so they accept regulations even if they are burdensome to their own personal interests." Oh, how noble! The reality is they want power for its own sake.
8   DeficitHawk   2025 Jul 10, 3:21pm  

HeadSet says

The reality is they want power for its own sake.

I think you have missed the whole point of the paper Patrick linked.
9   DeficitHawk   2025 Jul 10, 4:36pm  

Patrick says


I don't understand why it's circular though. What does up and to the right mean here?

I read the article to see if I could figure this out... but I also didn't see any explanation or meaning for the angle/circle.

My best guess is that the heat map was created as a 1d function/histogram, which was random blurred into a 2d heat map (causing the apparent negative values in the fringes), scaled to match color distribution, and then superimposed onto the rings for visualization. Maybe the authors wanted to continue with the 'moral circles/proximity' analogy for visualization, but the angle has no particular meaning.

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