patrick.net

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1112106_heres-how-mazdas-hcci-engine-works

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rpanic01 says

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1112106_heres-how-mazdas-hcci-engine-works

Dead on arrival.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/08/19/economist-announces-death-ice-finally/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29
The Economist Announces The Death Of The ICE (Finally)

" For example, when the car is cruising at a consistent speed on the highway or during low-load situations around town"

Good luck! Remember the Cadillac V-8-6-4?

The ice bans are merely political and do not root in any understanding of the matter. Easily reversible. As to the actual performance of this engine, we will see.

Where I live in N. California, the electricity comes from burning natural gas. The best idea was a natural gas Honda Civic but they aren't sold any more, too bad.

The electric car I like is the Chevy Bolt; it's $30,000 and has a 238 mile range. Charging it with 11cent/kilowatt hour electricity will give you a "fuel cost" of 4 cents/mile, which is a lot less than my car buring $4/gallon gasoline in expensive California.

If I lived in S. Florida again I would consider the Bolt because electricity is about 1/3 the price as in N. California, and I don't drive far when I am down there; I don't want to visit Miami Beach or Disney World, etc.

The govt. subsidy is disappearing from the cars pretty soon.

clambo says

Where I live in N. California, the electricity comes from burning natural gas.

Your area sounds like the exception. When I looked at energy figures for California a few years ago, the majority still came from coal/oil.

NuttBoxer says

Your area sounds like the exception. When I looked at energy figures for California a few years ago, the majority still came from coal/oil.

Huh? Coal is about 1%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California

- Natural gas - 50%
- Hydroelectric - 16%
- Nuclear - 15%
- Geothermal - 6%
- Wind/Solar/Biomass/Other - 12%
- Coal - 1%

Nice rant by OP.

Suggest the EV haters test drive a Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro or a Tesla if they can afford one.

My Chevy Bolt is simply the fastest and most fun car I have ever owned. I don't even care about the environmental benefits. I am driving a car that is faster than 95% of the cars on the road, super convenient to charge up in my garage and I am saving over $200 month in gas and maintenance.

I am giving up nothing and gaining loads in terms of performance and cost savings.

We're coming to an interesting fork in the road ahead. On one side we have EV's that have failed in virtually every promise they made back in 2009, when Obama swindled American tax payers. Then gave billions to failed start up green companies. Tesla was one of them. The incentives was supposed to be all about how they would get cheaper after 10 years. But here we are they are still need Subsidies.

Now we're seeing Gas cars getting creative with engines and are getting closer to the 50 mpg mark. They are also chocking the car full of high tech innovations and more sensors that want to communicate information back to the Mother ship. Metro PCS is selling a module you plug into a slot for ten bucks. I guess every car manufacture has provided a standard protocol and socket for it. The current generation of vehicles are starting to see the most advanced stuff in their base model cars. This in turn is making new cars un-affordable for most people. new If this trend continues. I don't see myself buying the next generation of Mazda 3 or what ever new model they may come out with.

Everything has been made a premium for buying a car.

Fuel efficient = Premium $
Economical = Premium $

They are so standard and alike. I'm seeing more Luxury car manufacturers copying Mazda and Hyundai designs.
I saw Alpha Romero Mazda CX-9 the other day at the grocery store parking lot. I parked my wife's car next to it. Got the same curves, the lines, the style the back. All the same.



Every car is a luxury car now.

socal2 says

Huh? Coal is about 1%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California

- Natural gas - 50%
- Hydroelectric - 16%
- Nuclear - 15%
- Geothermal - 6%
- Wind/Solar/Biomass/Other - 12%
- Coal - 1%

I didn't use wikipedia for my numbers, but as I mentioned, has been a while since I checked. But fact is California, the poster-child for alternative energy, still relies on oil.

Tenpoundbass says

On one side we have EV's that have failed in virtually every promise they made back in 2009, when Obama swindled American tax payers. Then gave billions to failed start up green companies. Tesla was one of them.

Huge failure!

*Tesla becomes best selling premium automaker in US, topping BMW and Lexus*
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-number-1-premium-automaker-q4-2018-us-bmw-lexus/

*Tesla = #1 in Luxury Cars in USA, #4 in Luxury Vehicles*
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/09/tesla-1-in-luxury-cars-in-usa-4-in-luxury-vehicles-possibly-5-cleantechnica-charts/

*Tesla Outsells Mercedes-Benz In America And BMW Is Next To Be Toppled*
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/10/09/tesla-outsells-mercedes-benz-in-america-and-bmw-is-next/#2d3aca997562

How much money did Obama give GM?

NuttBoxer says

I didn't use wikipedia for my numbers, but as I mentioned, has been a while since I checked. But fact is California, the poster-child for alternative energy, still relies on oil.

I thought we were just talking about electricity generation? I believe your graph includes transportation.

If the Green morons in California didn't decommission 2 of our nuke plants, we would be relying on less natural gas too. But natural gas is a good bridge energy to help reduce our emissions while improve the alternatives.

clambo says

he best idea was a natural gas Honda Civic

Nah, the range sucked and the filling stations were few and far between. If filling up at home was allowed that would be the whole 'nother story.

PS. And it's still a fucking Civic.

Now I’m interested in the Chevy Bolt!
I’m all about economics, and I understand where the energy comes from.
Electric motors are just super great for fast acceleration and reliability, as well as being far less on maintenance, and cheaper to operate.

Duke Power in Moss Landing makes the electricity where I live in N. California.

There are a several reasons I like the idea of an electric car, socal2 owns one and likes driving it.

Electric cars can be useful for most driving use of cars; most trips are well within the range of 50 miles round trip. But, the Bolt can handle an actual "road trip" somewhere also with a 238 mile range.

An electric motor driving the wheels is efficient because it means you don't need a gearbox or transmission and clutch; this is a heavy complex piece of equipment in a car.

The cost of electricity at night can drop and of course the power plants are not as busy at night so this is maybe a good use of them anyway.

But, the other is the "fuel" cost of driving the car can be as low as 4 cents/mile ($0.04). Some cars can get higher mileage than my car which gets 30 mpg on the freeway but only about 20 mpg around town.

20 mpg with $4.00 gasoline in California=20 cents ($0.20) per mile which is a lot more than 4 cents per mile.

Electric cars have smooth acceleration and torque. But, you will use your battery up if you stomp on the pedal because it costs energy to accelerate any mass.

F=MA Both the rate of acceleration and the mass of the car will affect the energy you use up in city driving.

RE: Honda Civic is a good car and the range was not so bad; unfortunately there were few places to fill up and it wasn't popular enough.

I would buy a Chevy Bolt in a heartbeat but I own a Volvo S60 T5 with an engine made in Sweden and assembled in Belgium so I may die before the car does.

I drove up to San Francisco the other day and I had to stop counting the Bolts after a while; those cars are kicking Tesla's ass with good reason.

socal2 says

If the Green morons in California didn't decommission 2 of our nuke plants, we would be relying on less natural gas too. But natural gas is a good bridge energy to help reduce our emissions while improve the alternatives.

You are right on the graph, not apples to apples, but I think it still proves my point. And yes, shutting down SanO because of some easily planned for and replaced pipping was assinine.

I've heard some bad things about fracking, do we get natural gas using non-destructive means?

NuttBoxer says

And yes, shutting down SanO because of some easily planned for and replaced pipping was assinine.

It's more about its Fukusima-like location, I believe. Building it on the beach was the original assinine act.

Hugolas_Madurez says

It's more about its Fukusima-like location, I believe. Building it on the beach was the original assinine act.

Ok, but Tsunami's are far more common on Japan, and nuclear energy is one of the safest forms of energy production in the world.

NuttBoxer says

but Tsunami's are far more common on Japan

It takes just one tsunami similar to one which devastated Crescent City in 1964 to make nuclear shit hit the fan in the middle of very densely populated area. The possible downside exceeds any imaginable upside from "carbon-free energy" by order of magnitude.

Quigley says

Now I’m interested in the Chevy Bolt!

You should go test drive one and be sure to put it in "L" mode which give you one pedal driving. The acceleration and torque are awesome, but it is the regenerative braking which makes the Bolt such a blast to drive. I never use the friction brakes, I just take my foot off the accelerator and maybe hit the regen paddle on the steering wheel if I need to slow down more.

A friend of mine who is pretty well off just got done test driving the Tesla X and 3 and decided to go with the Bolt.

Today driving into Santa Cruz I saw 4 Bolts within a few minutes of each other, those are evidently popular here.

I've seen two kinds of EV owners. Average people who just bought it because it saves them from buying gas and they got solar panels already (Prius). And young liberal kids who think they are saving a planet... completely unaware of world around them.

clambo says

Today driving into Santa Cruz I saw 4 Bolts within a few minutes of each other, those are evidently popular here.

Were they waiting in line at a charging station?

headset, the Bolts are all over the place here. They weren't charging probably because they have a 238 mile range.

In S. Florida I was averaging about 200 miles per week but I didn't have to commute anywhere. I could have driven a Bolt and charged it once or twice per week and gotten along fine.

I'm not interested in the car for environmental reasons, rather economic, practicality and esthetic reasons.

I would never own a Tesla for example; I think they're ugly and so expensive and etc.

Tim Aurora says

http://patrick.net/post/1323735/2019-04-07-evs-are-cheaper-to-operate-and-much-cleaner-than-ice

I am on my third EV, it is so fun to drive I am not going back to that 20th Century ICE

Like I said above, if you like it, good on you.

As an aside, anyone contemplating buying an EV should be aware of the full value. The cost is always come down as the industry scales.

https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-true-cost-of-powering-an-electric-car.html

The thing to consider is that solar and batteries prices are not static: they are collapsing.
And they are collapsing because there are people who buy these technologies now.
The people who buy early super expensive Teslas paid for investments that will allow one day electric vehicles to be by far cheaper than gas cars (they are simpler).
And - given that solar power prices are also collapsing - electric vehicles are going to be clearly the greenest.

So the rant above amount to conservative nay saying in the face of progress - progress from which everyone benefits.

The willing, fates guide them.
The others, they drag.

How do you store all that Solar Power after 5PM on a January in Washington or Massachusetts?

Molten Salt.

Heraclitusstudent says

The thing to consider is that solar and batteries prices are not static: they are collapsing.
And they are collapsing because there are people who buy these technologies now.
The people who buy early super expensive Teslas paid for investments that will allow one day electric vehicles to be by far cheaper than gas cars (they are simpler).
And - given that solar power prices are also collapsing - electric vehicles are going to be clearly the greenest.

So the rant above amount to conservative nay saying in the face of progress - progress from which everyone benefits.

The willing, fates guide them.
The others, they drag.

Not a conservative breh. Thanks for your opinion.

socal2 says

You should go test drive one and be sure to put it in "L" mode which give you one pedal driving. The acceleration and torque are awesome, but it is the regenerative braking which makes the Bolt such a blast to drive. I never use the friction brakes, I just take my foot off the accelerator and maybe hit the regen paddle on the steering wheel if I need to slow down more.

A friend of mine who is pretty well off just got done test driving the Tesla X and 3 and decided to go with the Bolt.

Sorry, but there is no way shape or form Bolt/Volt/Leaf or whatever other tall FWD electric econobox is more fun to drive than Tesla3. The latter handles beautifully, on par with the best RWD sports sedans out there, the former are all firmly on the scale between horrible and simply meh. Of course, there is nothing wrong in choosing an electric econobox if one doesn't care about handling and the whole "fun to drive" thing is limited by "0-40 acceleration from a stop light" for them.

The height of the car matters less if the center of gravity is low with the weight of the batteries and motors down low.

The Bolt has the equivalent of 200 HP which is a lot for a small car. My Volvo hauls ass with 250 HP but it's a heavier car.

Everyone who drives it says it's fun, and for $30,000 less money than Tesla you can spend the extra dough on having other kinds of fun.

They must be selling a lot of them in some places, I see them all over the area I'm in.

clambo says

for $30,000 less money than Tesla

What car is "$30K less than Tesla3" again?

The Bolt is about $30,000

I guess the Model 3 is close in price until you add on all the stuff which really makes it expensive. I bet most 3s actually end up being $45,000.

I can't just go buy a Model 3 rather I must pay $ then wait for months and I guess people do that too but I sure won't.

clambo says

I guess the Model 3 is close in price until you add on all the stuff which really makes it expensive.

You don't have to add anything. RWD and great handling comes standard.

socal2 says

Suggest the EV haters test drive a Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro or a Tesla if they can afford one.

Umm, I don't think you have to be able to afford a Tesla to test drive one...I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.

Comment I heard from a coworker this week upon laying eyes on a Chevy Volt...

“I’d be embarrassed to be seen in that” LOL

How is it possible after all these years that GM still makes the most hideous looking cars on the road today? It blows my mind that this is still true post federal bailout.

BayArea says

How is it possible after all these years that GM still makes the most hideous looking cars

They use a senile old Russian designer who used to design Lada's and Yugo's.

Actually, I have heard a lot of good things about the Volt from end users.

Hand_Of_Glory says

Electricity for much of the US and world is powered through coal

Or natural gas.

Civic/Corolla can't be beat. Cheaper to start, cheap on gas. EV's are expensive and unreliable toys. No one knows how long they last, Teslas I hear are junk that breaks a lot. Prius seems to last longer, but again (battery life is unknown).

Agree if EVs work for you that's great but there's no credible data that they have a better pollution footprint than modern ICEs. Best is a competition of both models as it brings out the best on both sides.

The car in the OP appears to have run over an open manhole cover or larger road hazard.