patrick.net

socal2 says

You should go test drive one and be sure to put it in "L" mode which give you one pedal driving. The acceleration and torque are awesome, but it is the regenerative braking which makes the Bolt such a blast to drive. I never use the friction brakes, I just take my foot off the accelerator and maybe hit the regen paddle on the steering wheel if I need to slow down more.

A friend of mine who is pretty well off just got done test driving the Tesla X and 3 and decided to go with the Bolt.

Sorry, but there is no way shape or form Bolt/Volt/Leaf or whatever other tall FWD electric econobox is more fun to drive than Tesla3. The latter handles beautifully, on par with the best RWD sports sedans out there, the former are all firmly on the scale between horrible and simply meh. Of course, there is nothing wrong in choosing an electric econobox if one doesn't care about handling and the whole "fun to drive" thing is limited by "0-40 acceleration from a stop light" for them.

The height of the car matters less if the center of gravity is low with the weight of the batteries and motors down low.

The Bolt has the equivalent of 200 HP which is a lot for a small car. My Volvo hauls ass with 250 HP but it's a heavier car.

Everyone who drives it says it's fun, and for $30,000 less money than Tesla you can spend the extra dough on having other kinds of fun.

They must be selling a lot of them in some places, I see them all over the area I'm in.

clambo says

for $30,000 less money than Tesla

What car is "$30K less than Tesla3" again?

The Bolt is about $30,000

I guess the Model 3 is close in price until you add on all the stuff which really makes it expensive. I bet most 3s actually end up being $45,000.

I can't just go buy a Model 3 rather I must pay $ then wait for months and I guess people do that too but I sure won't.

clambo says

I guess the Model 3 is close in price until you add on all the stuff which really makes it expensive.

You don't have to add anything. RWD and great handling comes standard.

socal2 says

Suggest the EV haters test drive a Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro or a Tesla if they can afford one.

Umm, I don't think you have to be able to afford a Tesla to test drive one...I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.

Comment I heard from a coworker this week upon laying eyes on a Chevy Volt...

“I’d be embarrassed to be seen in that” LOL

How is it possible after all these years that GM still makes the most hideous looking cars on the road today? It blows my mind that this is still true post federal bailout.

BayArea says

How is it possible after all these years that GM still makes the most hideous looking cars

They use a senile old Russian designer who used to design Lada's and Yugo's.

Actually, I have heard a lot of good things about the Volt from end users.

Hand_Of_Glory says

Electricity for much of the US and world is powered through coal

Or natural gas.

Civic/Corolla can't be beat. Cheaper to start, cheap on gas. EV's are expensive and unreliable toys. No one knows how long they last, Teslas I hear are junk that breaks a lot. Prius seems to last longer, but again (battery life is unknown).

Agree if EVs work for you that's great but there's no credible data that they have a better pollution footprint than modern ICEs. Best is a competition of both models as it brings out the best on both sides.

The car in the OP appears to have run over an open manhole cover or larger road hazard.

The report: https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/EVtransition_FuelingCostStudy_10-21-21.pdf

Your converting energy before using it(in almost every case), always a net loss. Also, and this is rarely thought about, electricity is fully controlled and monopolized, way more than oil could ever be. If you eliminate gas vehicles, you centralize even more authority under a single entity, always a recipe for disaster and totalitarianism.

Where will the electricity be generated to supply all these chargers? Likely from on-site gas and diesel generators.

"Sorry. Your social credit score does not allow you any electricity. We will tow your car and sell it at auction."

HunterTits says

They need to be located near the grid. The article gets into that.

Yes, they will be connected to local power. But how is that local power going to supply the extra demand of electric cars? Or is that problem going to be solved by just having a few connections per site, so very few cars can charge per day? Supplemented by on site generators when people complain about long lines.

Swappable pre-charged batteries would be a better choice, provided they really want Americans to keep their driving habits. Instead, mandated all electric cars with long charging times and a shortage of electricity will result in Americans greatly cutting back on driving. I would be more inclined to believe the exclusive electric car if the idea behind the charging stations was to co-locate the charging station with a large solar field that constantly charged swappable batteries.

Also, it is 2022 - where are the self-driving cars that were promised by 2019?

HunterTits says

That's Australia, right? Says Ministry of Health but the phone number is not North American. That rules out Canada.

Interesting that they have 800 numbers there.

It is New Zealand

HeadSet says

Swappable pre-charged batteries would be a better choice

I don't want someone else's used shitty battery.
Now for fleet usage, I could see swappable batteries.

HeadSet says

Also, it is 2022 - where are the self-driving cars that were promised by 2019?

I'd say Tesla is about 95% there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS5oOt8gIGU&source=patrick.net

socal2 says

HeadSet says

Also, it is 2022 - where are the self-driving cars that were promised by 2019?

I'd say Tesla is about 95% there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS5oOt8gIGU&source=patrick.net

That was impressive, but appears to be dependent on extremely detailed geo data. How did the car know where the 4 way stops were, unless such info was programmed in. Such a reliance on detailed street data would mean that each time an intersection is changed to a a 4 way stop, for example, that street data would have to be propagated to all self-driving cars in the country.

Ceffer says

"Sorry. Your social credit score does not allow you any electricity. We will tow your car and sell it at auction."

... and donate the proceeds to a cause of our choosing.

HeadSet says

That was impressive, but appears to be dependent on extremely detailed geo data.

I believe the other guys like Waymo are the ones that rely on Lidar and geo-mapped routes. They are basically a trolley service on fixed routes.

Tesla is doing it entirely differently than everyone else relying on their "vision system" which uses it's cameras to read traffic lights, signs, stripes, cars, people, obstacles along with it's AI to figure things out in real time. It uses GPS mapping for basic navigation, but it is getting to the point you can pretty much plop a Tesla in the middle of a parking lot or a field and it can figure it's way out. There are over 60,000 beta testers on the road right now feeding the neural network more data every day making the system better and better.

https://nitter.pussthecat.org/Not_the_Bee/status/1505679545965314054?source=patrick.net

Ben Bergman
@thebenbergman
Mar 20
The very rare time as a Tesla owner I wish I could pay $6/gallon for gas and be on my way. We need more super chargers

Lines at the Tesla charging station!

It's not just how much it costs, it's how long you have to wait to fill up.

Patrick says

It's not just how much it costs

Yes it is.

It's always about how much it costs to have a Status Symbol.

Here’s the cost to operate my Tesla 2017 Model S. I shared these numbers with my friends last week. The drop off in usage in 2020 was due to SIP so less driving. The drop off in usage in 2021 was due to charging for free a little more often.

For people who wait in-line to charge, they don’t value their time, and it’s definitely a loss the moment they do that. We still take our gas car for trips to SoCal. Screw free supercharging. Our time is more valuable than waiting in-line and save a few bucks.

Yeah my electric bill hasn't even budged since charging my Prius prime daily. I rarely ever burn fuel now.

Next vehicle is full electric. So much quieter and smoother than ICE cars.

joshuatrio says

Yeah my electric bill hasn't even budged since charging my Prius prime daily. I rarely ever burn fuel now.

Next vehicle is full electric. So much quieter and smoother than ICE cars.

Personally, I think hybrid makes the most sense. Otherwise, we should be able to stack batteries for longer road trips. To carry 300-mile range worth of battery while only operate 30-50 miles each day is carrying a lot of dead weight.

I’m not going back to ICE although I still look at Corvette occasionally. I still have the love for it.

However, I have a feeling I’ll likely get a Roadster in a few years to show the kids in the family that it’s possible if they dare to dream.

joshuatrio says

Yeah my electric bill hasn't even budged since charging my Prius prime daily. I rarely ever burn fuel now.

Next vehicle is full electric. So much quieter and smoother than ICE cars.

The drive of EV's is amazing. Ultimately they're not cheaper. 1,000%. It's negligible on paper, but it's not some massive savings if at all. Literally one of my top 5 friends is a Toyota engineer that I've mentioned before. He's not selling to me and doesn't care. EV's are not cheaper overall. It's math and I trust his word. EV's are not cheaper (yet).

Electric costs money and the car costs more. Higher interest rate with higher purchase price. Ultimately everyone knows their margins as a business. I can promise you a Nissan Versa is substantially more efficient than a Tesla (I like them). This really is indisputable.

I'm a point A to B guy. Move me to where I need to go. I don't need status or the feel good of an EV. It's not cheaper. I don't hate people that get them. As with everything in life it's a decision. Unless you harm my family you're generally good by me.

It costs me about $8.00 to fill up my Model Y when I charge at home during off peak.

If you compare my Tesla to a comparable high-end sedan or SUV (BWM, Mercedes, Volvo etc.) I am pretty sure it costs me less to own and operate.

If you compare my Tesla to a mid-range car like a Honda or Toyota, it is probably about even considering the price of gas in California.

I picked up my new boss from the airport yesterday and the Tesla blew him away. He drives a Porsche Boxster and placed an order for a Model 3 last night.

WookieMan says

I'm a point A to B guy. Move me to where I need to go. I don't need status or the feel good of an EV. It's not cheaper. I don't hate people that get them. As with everything in life it's a decision. Unless you harm my family you're generally good by me.

It's because you're not trying to prove something to others, about how much smarter you are than them, or how much more you can afford to drive a Status Symbol than they can.

Some folks are a bit disingenuous about how cheap it is to charge their EV, at least those who buy their electricity from PG&E (Bay Area). I own a plug-in hybrid so I was keenly interested in saving money by charging it at home. It's true, some folks have boasted on Patrick's blog, those kwatt-hrs are (relatively) cheaper than kwhr for appliances and lighting. But in order to get that rate, I would have to agree to pay HIGHER rates for non-EV charging electrons. Much higher. They leave that part out of their discussion.

RWSGFY says

- Cost of commercial electricity

Lets be clear, the report is mainly about the high cost of commercial charging. Many folks with EVs use them for local trips and charge at home. As the saying goes, YMMV...
While the ChargePoint network allows the property owner where the charger is situated to set rates, Blink charges between $0.04-$0.06 per minute or from $0.39 to $0.79 per kWh, in states where that’s permitted.
Chevrolet says its Bolt EV will get back an average 25 miles of operating range per hour of Level 2 charging. That’s a cost of between $2.40 and $3.60 at the above rates, compared to the EPA’s estimate of $2.15 to drive a gas-powered Chevrolet Cruze for 25 miles.
From https://www.myev.com/research/ev-101/what-it-costs-to-charge-an-electric-vehicle?source=patrick.net

Driving a plug in hybrid with a large 40-50 mile battery is probably the cheapest option if you have a short commute. But not many of those exist anymore.

BoomAndBustCycle says

Driving a plug in hybrid with a large 40-50 mile battery is probably the cheapest option if you have a short commute. But not many of those exist anymore.

Short commutes? Yeah, most of commutes - both short and long - have turned into non-existent commutes, bwahahahaha.

Not sure why some people keep referring to Tesla as a status symbol. Would this make driving a Porsche, MBZ, BMW, Audi, Lexus, Infinity, Cadillac, etc….a status symbol?

It’s simply a car for enjoyment, or to get one from point A to point B. Is making $500k/year a status symbol compared to someone making $100k/year? Is living in a $3M vs a $1M home a status symbol?

Each person enjoys different thing. If one can afford it without breaking the bank, why not? Can’t take anything with us when we’re gone so why not buy something we like, eat what we like, and live in a home we like if we can afford them?

Eman says

I’m not going back to ICE although I still look at Corvette occasionally. I still have the love for it.

Meh, a sprotscar w/o manual trasmission is ghey.

B.A.C.A.H. says

But in order to get that rate, I would have to agree to pay HIGHER rates for non-EV charging electronics. Much higher.

I usually have a seizure whenever I look into the alternative rate schedules. Just playing around with my "heat pump in box" this winter I got bumped up into the next tier above baseline on my vanilla E1 schedule.
So here's the EV2A rate schedule from PG&E (to show that BACAH ain't kidding)...