patrick.net

There are still some components to be filled in.

For example: how to discourage burglars and other normal people from stepping onto the trap door. We need a test with no false positives - I and my customers are uncompromisingly moral people.

In the early phases of design, a massive display of child pornography in the entryway was planned, being something that would repel humans but attract realtor, but it has come to our attention that there is documentary evidence, of sketchy provenance, that there actually exist pedophiles who are not realtors.

Since a non-realtor pedophile, if such exists, is actually a person with some hope of redemption, I can't take the chance that my machine might commit murder, no matter how fancifully chimerical the notion of a non-realtor pedophile seems.

Bellingham Bill says

One area that scarcity can hit is food.

A report came out earlier this year (I forgot whether it was Word Bank or someone else) that claims that we waste/throw away 50% of the food produced. I don't really see food as a scarcity if this report is true.

Bellingham Bill says

Like Japan, taxes have to double here to actually fix anything, and that's simply not going to happen.

There is no other way. For a start, have to make capital gains equal to wage taxes and corporations actually have to pay taxes.

turtledove says

It's an excellent distraction and keeps people from focusing their attention on the fact that we have billionaires who don't even come close to contributing their fair share.

EXACTLY.

Most of the population has been completely distracted from the actual problems when you throw in hatred of abortion, welfare, gay marriage and a black president. It is like a ridiculous reality show/soap opera has been piped in over reality.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

At least you're honest enough to leave up a post of yourself doing the goofy. Good on you.

Ditto. Props to you :-)

Let's assume a flat tax system of 20% on any income/gains without any deductions/loopholes. Who can explain (now that the oracle is gone without profanity but with reason) why it is unfair that someone earning 50K pays 10K in taxes while somebody earning 5M pays 1M in taxes?

There were no pictures just a video.
That's the problem with this argument, those that make the loudest case. Don't really compare apples to apples. The problem isn't the business people and bankers, it's the people you assholes keep electing that give their power and monopolies. Fuck they even get millions to billions in grants and non payback loans.
Stop electing these bastards, and stop giving these companies billions of my tax dollars. Start there, then get back to me.

mell says

Let's assume a flat tax system of 20% on any income/gains without any
deductions/loopholes. Who can explain (now that the oracle is gone without
profanity but with reason) why it is unfair that someone earning 50K pays 10K in
taxes while somebody earning 5M pays 1M in taxes?

I don't care about "fair". I want a tax structure that will lead to vibrant economy. A flat tax will not do that.

Follow the Yellow Brick Road to Feudalism
http://jonathanturley.org/2013/08/09/follow-the-yellow-brick-road-to-feudalism/

Historical Development of Modern Feudalism:
http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/anonymous/truthshallprevail.htm

tatupu70 says

mell says

Let's assume a flat tax system of 20% on any income/gains without any

deductions/loopholes. Who can explain (now that the oracle is gone without

profanity but with reason) why it is unfair that someone earning 50K pays 10K in

taxes while somebody earning 5M pays 1M in taxes?

I don't care about "fair". I want a tax structure that will lead to vibrant economy. A flat tax will not do that.

Not true. I have shown examples of countries with less wealth disparity than the US who run on flat taxes. There is no correlation. Now, if you talk about a one-time measure to correct a significant imbalance that occurred due to other disastrous policies, then that may make sense as a temporary "emergency" tax on the uber-wealthy. However that would need to go hand-in-hand with abandoning the causes of wealth disparity such as Fed/govt bailouts and crony capitalism (subsidies, deductions, loopholes), money printing which gets held up mostly at the first-in-line receivers and does not trickle down, not adhering to the rule of law and clearing bad debt via bankruptcy as designed, propping up favorited sectors suchs as the FIRE sector, prosecute fraud and counterfeiting for everybody instead of selectively applying and abandoning the rule of law etc. etc. These are the real reasons for wealth inequality, flat vs. progressive tax and the tax percentages (as long as applied equally) have very little to do with it.

Which countries are those?

Bigsby says

Which countries are those?

For example Estonia, Latvia, Hungary, Belarus, Romania.

mell says

I have shown examples of countries with less wealth disparity than the US who
run on flat taxes. There is no correlation

I'm sure you know this, but just because there are one or two special cases does not invalidate a correlation.

It is pretty simple and impossible to deny really. In order to raise the same revenue under a flat tax system, the middle and lower classes would be forced to pay more taxes. That is undeniable. Do you disagree??

And if the middle and lower classes are paying more while the super rich are paying less--doesn't that guarantee wealth disparity will increase??

mell says

However that would need to go hand-in-hand with abandoning the causes of wealth
disparity such as Fed/govt bailouts and crony capitalism (subsidies, deductions,
loopholes), money printing which gets held up mostly at the first-in-line
receivers and does not trickle down, not adhering to the rule of law and
clearing bad debt via bankruptcy as designed, propping up favorited sectors
suchs as the FIRE sector, prosecute fraud and counterfeiting for everybody
instead of selectively applying and abandoning the rule of law etc. etc. These
are the real reasons for wealth inequality, flat vs. progressive tax and the tax
percentages (as long as applied equally) have very little to do with it.

The rest of your post is your usual trite garbage.

mell says

For example Estonia, Latvia, Hungary, Belarus, Romania.

You mean they aren't worse yet, right?

tatupu70 says

The rest of your post is your usual trite garbage.

You can be dismissive without arguments all you want, I am asserting that flat vs progressive tax does very little to increasing/diminishing income/wealth disparity given there are no exemptions/loopholes/deductions. So if it's not that it must be somethin else, could be what you call "trite garbage".

mell says

You can be dismissive without arguments all you want

Uh, I think my argument was directly above the part of my post that you copied and pasted.

mell says

I am asserting that flat vs progressive tax does very little to
increasing/diminishing income/wealth disparity given there are no
exemptions/loopholes/deductions.

And I showed why that assertion is undeniably incorrect.

tatupu70 says

mell says

For example Estonia, Latvia, Hungary, Belarus, Romania.

You mean they aren't worse yet, right?

Well, lets keep following the data over the years. I am still waiting on any explanation on how my outlined simplified flat tax example - given there are no Fed/govt subsidies/deductions and money printing - leads to wealth inequality. Person A pays 10K taxes on 50K income, Person B pays 1M taxes on 5M income. Let's see how Person B grabs all the wealth from Person A in a free market without any "outside" or higher power help.

Mell, I agree with the general idea... in fact my final paper for my second master's was written on this very topic. I'm too busy right now getting ready for a walkthrough of my house tomorrow to go into the details, but one thing I found necessary for it to work is that you have to have a realistic wage exemption specific to a particular county. This would remove some of the regressive nature of a garden variety flat to those most vulnerable. I wish I had more time. I love this topic. Break's over.

mell says

Well, lets keep following the data over the years. I am still waiting on any
explanation on how my outlined simplified flat tax example - given there are no
Fed/govt subsidies/deductions and money printing - leads to wealth inequality.
Person A pays 10K taxes on 50K income, Person B pays 1M taxes on 5M income.
Let's see how Person B grabs all the wealth from Person A in a free market
without any "outside" or higher power help.

I already explained it above. Did you not read it?

The flaw in your thinking is that you need to understand that a capitalist economy naturally leads to wealth inequality. You need a tax structure to slow this natural trend. A flat tax by itself doesn't lead to inequality--it just doesn't stop it. A progressive tax does.

turtledove says

Mell, I agree with the general idea... in fact my final paper for my second master's was written on this very topic. I'm too busy right now getting ready for a walkthrough of my house tomorrow to go into the details, but one thing I found necessary for it to work is that you have to have a realistic wage exemption specific to a particular county. This would remove some of the regressive nature of a garden variety flat to those most vulnerable. I wish I had more time. I love this topic. Break's over.

Looking forward for more on this later - I'm open to all models given that they are as simple as possible which IMO not only ensures fairness but also does away with most of the hassle dealing with tax attorneys, accounts etc. for those who don't want to or cannot afford to as well as for those who exploit deductions, subsidies and loopholes.

thomaswong.1986 says

That's where the problem comes in. This was an offhand amendment that was supposed to be rejected.

Exactly. The republicans keep bluffing, and the democrats keep calling their bluffs. Now Grassley owns this, warts and all. The moral of the story is, don't play political games by proposing amendments as a bluff. If Obama were smart (I mean, he's smart, but if he were smarter), he would immediately coin this fiasco "Grassleycare" or "Republicare", and use that name over and over to drive home the point that this was the republicans' doing.

Those who are multi-millionaires/billionaires (the obscenely rich) should bear a progressively heavier tax burden than those making minimum wage. Otherwise, wealth disparity becomes worse and "stays in the family". The fact that a CEO can make a hundred times more money than the average-paid worker in the same company seems ridiculous. Additionally, the super rich (not someone making $250K/yr) are able to sway the rules of the game in their favor whether it be investing in stocks (or moving stock prices in their favor), buying up small companies, or buying real estate...with all that money comes power, and it no longer makes the rules of the game fair. Unfortunately, that's a downside to capitalism that needs to be regulated to some degree through a progressive tax structure.

bgamall4 says

government shutdown in September

There was a government shutdown?

Mish has been firmly in the deflationist camp since 2008.

More and more people are starting to realize that, in the medium to long time, Keynesianism is highly deflationary as capital destruction would leave less productove asset available to be borrowed against for credit money creation.

I think you have to take a long term view on gold. The investment banks and possibly the Fed are engaged in gold price manipulation. Disclosure: I have no gold position.

Health is wealth.

This fellow claims that the banks are manipulating the price of gold: http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/

Lots of buzz about JP Morgan manipulating the silver market. I really don't know, of course, and frankly I can only be along for a ride created by very large and opaque forces.

Homeboy says

thomaswong.1986 says

That's where the problem comes in. This was an offhand amendment that was supposed to be rejected.

Exactly. The republicans keep bluffing, and the democrats keep calling their bluffs. Now Grassley owns this, warts and all. The moral of the story is, don't play political games by proposing amendments as a bluff. If Obama were smart (I mean, he's smart, but if he were smarter), he would immediately coin this fiasco "Grassleycare" or "Republicare", and use that name over and over to drive home the point that this was the republicans' doing.

And what would be the message conveyed by such renaming?
What's plenty good enough for us, proles is not good enough for Inner Party and Grassley is to blame for forcing the inferior product on them? Are you sure that would play out as you think it would? ;)

Blurtman says

Health is wealth.

This fellow claims that the banks are manipulating the price of gold: http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/

Lots of buzz about JP Morgan manipulating the silver market. I really don't know, of course, and frankly I can only be along for a ride created by very large and opaque forces.

All markets are manipulated and the Fed has a fund specifically for that purpose.
Gold and silver impact currency exchange rates so of course they hit those markets from time to time
From the Fed's own web site
http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed14.html

"A herd of idiotic Austrians"

Unlike Keynesians Austrians don't travel in herds.

It's all in the movie, 'Executive Action', starring Burt Lancaster, the head of the black ops ...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/BbF5him-EF8

The Martians have landed on earth.

Call it Crazy says

If they react abruptly to falling sales by building less, the housing market may be “on the verge of a significant correction”, argues Ian Shepherdson of Pantheon Macroeconomics.

Are you sure they don't mean a correction upward? This is The Economist after all who believe higher home prices are a good thing.

Or actual train wrecks. Our nations infrastructure is still pretty crappy.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

Can anyone name one American who would not delight at dismembering a bankster and eating its face?

John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford & J.P. Morgan.

Also Gordon Gekko... And also me.

I would delight at eating American peasants' faces and dismembering their children's heads afterwards.

I'm scum...

I financed George Zimmerman because I want all niggers dead.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

And you like genocidal psychopaths to fuck you in the ass while you shout, "MOMMEEEEEEE!"

Why don't you accept my financial bribes and join my side in the genocidal agenda?

You won't have to nurse from your mother's breasts anymore. You'll have enough food...

Why can't we all just love one another without the ass fucking?

As a Democrat, I hate personal responsibility, self-reliance, and America.

Is there anything I can do to protect these black criminals from this great American?

Ceffer says

Why can't we all just love one another without the ass fucking?

What are you talking about? Are you some kind of communist?

Nobody in the United States has had vaginal intercourse since The Columbian Exposition of 1893.

In retrospect, wasn't it obvious that the whole affair was all Trayvon Martin's fault? Yep, the Zimmerman apologists were all right. He's a model citizen and gun owner.

By rural Georgia standards, Mr. Zimmerman would be nearly unarmed.

"I bet you can squeal like a pig. Weeeeeeee! "