patrick.net

New Renter says

Yes its is

Reality's response to that point is not there

Bigsby says

I notice you stressed the FOR part after saying I worked WITH the chamber of commerce. Very convenient.

The difference between FOR and WITH are quite obvious. I used the latter for a reason: most British subjects (companie and individuals) working abroad for decades work closely WITH the British Chamber of Commerce in the "expat" community. The British Chamber of Commerce came up with the term "expat" for those British subjects despite the fact that from a legal point of view they are not "expats" at all because they have not at all expatriated (renouncing their British citizenship)

Bigsby says

Let me spell it out for you, I don't work for a British company, and I work with and live around non-western people. Is that clear enough for you? Pretty much everything you've said has either been wrong, irrelevant or utterly obvious, so you can give your strawman comments a rest.

While I'm not infallible, the grossly over-generalizing statement at the end of the paragraph puts significant doubt into the validity of the previous sentence: while it is not uncommon for British "expats" to work with and live around non-western people even as they frequently show up at the local British Chambers of Commerce, and you may even be working FOR a non-British company now . . . both parts of the sentence may well be misleading from the more important facts:

1. You may well have started your overseas career at a British company;

2. You may well frequent events organized by the local British Chambers of Commerce, where you picked up the term "expats," a legally incorrect term describing British subjects who have not legally expatriated by renouncing their British citizenship.

These experiences and your self-admitted working with and living amongst foreigners in a foreign culture may well explain why you have not had much experience with in-depth discussions on economics, especially outside the schools that promote government sponsorship of privileged traders.

sbh says

Yo Bigs, before you fall prey to the temptation to venture further down the rabbithole with Skinhead Realty (it's dead time, to be sure), bear in mine he is utterly ham-handed when it comes to normative grammar (up pop the weasel.....oh, please). He was raised by hyenas, and English is a second language. In his wretched universe everything is self-referential. He's a functioning sociopath with Asperger's. Enjoy.

Keep projecting. You obviously know more about Swastika-worshiping Skinheads than you know about the Declaration of Independence. You consider the Swastika-worshiping skinheads as lovers of liberty, you are a fascist through and through.

Reality says

The difference between FOR and WITH are quite obvious. I used the latter for a reason: most British subjects (companie and individuals) working abroad for decades work closely WITH the British Chamber of Commerce in the "expat" community. The British Chamber of Commerce came up with the term "expat" for those British subjects despite the fact that from a legal point of view they are not "expats" at all because they have not at all expatriated (renouncing their British citizenship)

You are just bullshitting, trying to play stupid little word games. You made a direct comment about what I supposedly did without having a bloody clue about my employment, so you can give your shite a rest. And expatriate means outside the country NOT renouncing your citizenship to any normal person who isn't playing childish games.

Reality says

While I'm not infallible, the grossly over-generalizing statement at the end of the paragraph puts significant doubt into the validity of the previous sentence:

Really? I fail to see much if anything in your responses to me that was accurate.

Reality says

1. You may well have started your overseas career at a British company;

No.

Reality says

2. You may well frequent events organized by the local British Chambers of Commerce, where you picked up the term "expats," a legally incorrect term describing British subjects who have not legally expatriated by renouncing their British citizenship.

No, and again since when is that the common use of the word expat?

Reality says

These experiences and your self-admitted working with and living amongst foreigners in a foreign culture may well explain why you have not had much experience with in-depth discussions on economics, especially outside the schools that promote government sponsorship of privileged traders.

Yes, of course, because nobody ever discusses economics outside America. Are you a current college student who has read a couple of books and thinks they are an expert on everything by any chance?

The whole point of Reality's nonsense is that he wanted to start a fight about what the word expat means and its origin.

More childish antics.

Bigsby says

While I'm not infallible, the grossly over-generalizing statement at the end of the paragraph puts significant doubt into the validity of the previous sentence:

Really? I fail to see much if anything in your responses to me that was accurate.

Well, with over-generalization like that, you are giving up on convincing anyone of your written words.

Bigsby says

No, and again since when is that the common use of the word expat?

Ever since the concepts of governments regulating citizenships started.

Bigsby says

Yes, of course, because nobody ever discusses economics outside America. Are you a current college student who has read a couple of books and thinks they are an expert on everything by any chance?

No. However, I do have a lot of experience living in lands outside the country of my birth. In polite company with foreigners, most people do not engage in in-depth discussion on economics beyond the usual platitudes, especially if the people present might be beneficiaries of government granted privileges.

tatupu70 says

The whole point of Reality's nonsense is that he wanted to start a fight about what the word expat means and its origin.

More childish antics.

Sure, I made the thread at 7:40pm in anticipation of Bigsby using the word "expat" in the thread nearly 2hrs later. I'm clairvoyant.

Reality says

Well, with over-generalization like that, you are giving up on convincing anyone of your written words.

Over-generalization? Then list what you said to me that was accurate.

Reality says

Ever since the concepts of governments regulating citizenships started.

You seriously think that is the common usage of the word. Really? Let me guess, you trawled Wikipedia and half way down the page found a more obscure definition of the word and decided to run with it. Is that about right?

Reality says

No. However, I do have a lot of experience living in lands outside the country of my birth. In polite company with foreigners, most people do not engage in in-depth discussion on economics beyond the usual platitudes, especially if the people present might be beneficiaries of government granted privileges.

That's strange for someone who doesn't seem to be aware of what the word expat means to expats.
And 'in polite company' of all things. Hmmm, are you quite sure you've a lot of experience living abroad? You know, like everywhere in the world, you can have very in depth conversations with people you befriend when you LIVE in a country for extended periods. And seriously, what do you think you are trying to say with a comment like that last sentence. It's just laughable.

Bigsby says

Reality says

Well, with over-generalization like that, you are giving up on convincing anyone of your written words.

Over-generalization? Then list what you said to me that was accurate.

The difference between WITH and FOR;

The legal definition of "expatriation";

Hundreds of books have been published by economists of the Austrian School and the Public Choice School. BTW, apparently news to you, and you dismiss them as obscure economists written a book even after I mentioned.

Some of those authors from the Austrian School and Public Choice are Nobel Prize winners.

So in summary, you are ignorant and over-generalizing. My observation on both were also accurate.

Bigsby says

You seriously think that is the common usage of the word. Really? Let me guess, you trawled Wikipedia and half way down the page found a more obscure definition of the word and decided to run with it. Is that about right?

Stop projecting your own ignorance and reliance on the Wikipedia. Legal expatriation (as in renouncing one's citizenship) is becoming a relevant issue for many nowadays. Even the mainstream media is picking up on the rising number of Americans renouncing their US citizenship in recent years. An unfortunate turn of events.

Bigsby says

That's strange for someone who doesn't seem to be aware of what the word expat means to expats.

I'm aware of both the legal meaning of expatriation, and how the various local Chambers of Commerce overseas use the word. It may not have occurred to you that some of the big shot "expats" running the shows at those places are actually expats in the legal sense, who have already given up their US or UK citizenship and acquired a citizenship from a small 3rd party jurisdiction with low tax rate. i.e. they are neither citizens of their countries of birth nor the country where they conduct most of their businesses.

And 'in polite company' of all things. Hmmm, are you quite sure you've a lot of experience living abroad?

I have spent more than 2/3 of my life so far in places outside my country of birth.

You know, like everywhere in the world, you can have very in depth conversations with people you befriend when you LIVE in a country for extended periods. And seriously, what do you think you are trying to say with a comment like that last sentence. It's just laughable.

In-depth discussions on "political economy" is usually off-limits among polite company with potential business relationships, just like contentious topics in religion and politics.

Reality says

The difference between WITH and FOR

Childish games on your part.

Reality says

The legal definition of "expatriation"

We were talking about the use of the word expat/expatriate, NOT the legal definition of expatriation.

Reality says

Hundreds of books have been published by economists of the Austrian School and the Public Choice School. BTW, apparently news to you, and you dismiss them as obscure economists written a book even after I mentioned.

Talk about strawman arguments. Please point me to where I said anything of the sort.

Reality says

Some of those authors from the Austrian School and Public Choice are Nobel Prize winners.

Amazing.

So let me get this straight, your response to me saying that most of what you said to me was wrong, irrelevant or utterly obvious is to show you mentioned some of the economists were Nobel prize winners, to totally misrepresent what I said about your love for a particular school of economics, to suddenly switch to an obscure legal definition of expatriation when we were talking about the meaning of EXPAT/EXPATRIATE, and last but not least your bollocks about the use of one preposition over another to try and cover yourself for the nonsense you were spouting. You must be chuffed, but thanks for supporting my point.

Reality says

In-depth discussions on "political economy" is usually off-limits among polite company with potential business relationships, just like contentious topics in religion and politics.

You sound like you're reading from a script. People live a life outside of work as well. You do understand that, don't you? Most expats aren't hidden away in little ghettos with their only interaction with the outside world being business cocktail parties or whatever it is you seem to be referring to here. You really have some strange perspectives for someone who is claiming to have spent 2/3rds of their life working abroad. Where was that out of interest?

Bigsby says

So let me get this straight, your response to me saying that most of what you said to me was inaccurate is to show you mentioned some of the economists were Nobel prize winners,

In order to ridicule what I wrote, you claimed you had never heard of anyone making the points that I did. I referred you to the hundreds of books on the subject making the points that I did. You claimed they were just "a bunch of economists writing some books," to which my reply was that that "bunch of economists" included quite a few Nobel Prize winners in Economics.

to totally misrepresent what I said about your love for a particular school of economics, to suddenly switch to an obscure legal definition of expatriation when we were talking about the meaning of EXPAT/EXPATRIATE,

There was no sudden switch. After being shown how ignorant you are regarding various thoughts in Economics, you insisted that what you meant earlier was only limited to the personal contacts in your life (i.e. not including books), so we took a look at what your likely personal contacts are. You tried to brag that you were an "expat," a specfic use of the term that is popular among the various local Chambers of Commerce overseas where the organizers wish to commingle both the western citizenship holders and the ones who actually have legally expatriated.

Bigsby says

and last but not least your bollocks about the use of one preposition over another to try and hide behind the nonsense you were spouting.

I used the preposition very precisely. You chose to substitute it with something else and then launch into strawman tactic.

Bigsby says

You sound like you're reading from a script. People live a life outside of work as well. You do understand that, don't you? Most expats aren't hidden away in little ghettos with their only interaction with the outside world being business cocktail parties or whatever it is you seem to be referring to here.

Do you engage in in-depth discussion on political economy with real life friends? I don't; that's why I reserve that to online discussions and essays/books I write. In real life, making a living, taking care of family, maintaining friendships and intimate relationships preclude heated discussions on religion, politics and most economics.

You really have some strange perspectives for someone who is claiming to have spent 2/3rds of their life working abroad. Where was that out of interest?

hmm, for most people who are not political operatives or academic economists. For people living and/or working abroad, networking for friendship (avoiding contention) takes even higher priority.

Reality says

In order to ridicule what I wrote, you claimed you had never heard of anyone making the points that I did. I referred you to the hundreds of books on the subject making the points that I did. You claimed they were just "a bunch of economists writing some books," to which my reply was that that "bunch of economists" included quite a few Nobel Prize winners in Economics.

Good grief. I said no-one I'd ever met had spouted the sort of economic viewpoints you favour on here. Of what relevance is a bunch of economists' books to that comment?

Reality says

There was no sudden switch. After being shown how ignorant you are regarding various thoughts in Economics, you insisted that what you meant earlier was only limited to the personal contacts in your life (i.e. not including books), so we took a look at what your likely personal contacts are. You tried to brag that you were an "expat," a specfic use of the term that is popular among the various local Chambers of Commerce overseas where the organizers wish to commingle both the western citizenship holders and the ones who actually have legally expatriated.

I wasn't shown anything by you. You were and are the one trying to misrepresent what I said. I know no-one who espouses your views. That's just a statement of fact on my part. What has that got to do with what I know or don't know about a school of economics that you believe in? And where exactly did I try to 'brag' about being an expat? And expat is common terminology around the world for people working abroad. Your nonsense about Chambers of Commerce has little to no relevance to the day-to-day usage of the word.

Reality says

I used the preposition very precisely. You chose to substitute it with something else and then launch into strawman tactic.

No, you responded to a post where I said I neither worked with or for the chamber of commerce by playing a very obvious and childish game of saying 'oh but I didn't say FOR, did I? I said you worked WITH it.' Your stupid little gotcha game doesn't wash.

And out of interest, you aren't Homeboy, are you? You seem to have a very similar approach.

Reality says

In real life, making a living, taking care of family, maintaining friendships and intimate relationships preclude heated discussions on religion, politics and most economics.

You don't discuss those topics with friends? I can relate to avoiding discussion of religion, but people talk constantly about politics over here. As for in depth conversations about economics, well I guess that entirely depends on what you are referring to.
Reality says

For people living and/or working abroad, networking for friendship (avoiding contention) takes even higher priority.

Really? Maybe for new arrivals or people staying for a short time. Once you make actual friends rather than mere business acquaintances, you discuss what you find important to you, do you not? The locals here don't sit around diwaniyas for hours on end avoiding contention. They bloody love it.

Reality says

ou tried to brag that you were an "expat," a specfic use of the term that is popular among the various local Chambers of Commerce overseas where the organizers wish to commingle both the western citizenship holders and the ones who actually have legally expatriated.

Now I know you have been taking lessons from the captain in creating incoherent posts.

The term expat is used around the world to describe people who have retired abroad or professionals working abroad (as opposed to laborers who are referred to as immigrant workers). It's got nothing to do with giving up citizenship (although expats can obviously do that if they have another citizenship) and it certainly has zero to do with chamber of commerce. Everyone understands the term and usage except you for some reason. That's really odd as you are trying to claim you've worked abroad, I don't think so.

komputodo says

Because you can carry enough of it in a small bag that will feed your family
for a year.

Your family eats gold?

Reality says

Of course it did:

Oil going from $10/bbl (2001) to $140(2007), to $40(2009), to $100 (now) meant:

dollar going from 1/10bbl to 1/140bbl to 1/40bbl, to 1/100bbl at those time points.

Simple arithmetics.

I'm curious what relevance that has to a comment about gold not being a stable store of value.

Bigsby says

Good grief. I said no-one I'd ever met had spouted the sort of economic viewpoints you favour on here. Of what relevance is a bunch of economists' books to that comment?

You have not met me in person either. What do the people you have met in person have any relevance anyway?

Bigsby says

I wasn't shown anything by you. You were and are the one trying to misrepresent what I said. I know no-one who espouses your views. That's just a statement of fact on my part. What has that got to do with what I know or don't know about a school of economics that you believe in? And where exactly did I try to 'brag' about being an expat? And expat is common terminology around the world for people working abroad. Your nonsense about Chambers of Commerce has little to no relevance to the day-to-day usage of the word.

If you really know no-one sharing my views, then you are just proving your own ignorance regarding various economic thoughts. While I don't agree with Keynesianism, it would certainly be proof of ignorance if someone claims to have never heard of the basic tenets of Keynesiansim.

You bragged about yourself being "expat" for 20 years. "Expat" in your so-called "day-to-day usage" signifies a privileged position in the local economy promoted by the local "expat" Chambers of Commerce around the world.

Bigsby says

No, you responded to a post where I said I neither worked with or for the chamber of commerce by playing a very obvious and childish game of saying 'oh but I didn't say FOR, did I? I said you worked WITH it.' Your stupid little gotcha game doesn't wash.

There was no game involved. I used the correct preposition, and you insisted on misinterpreting it and accuse me of something that I never said.

Out of interest, you aren't Homeboy, are you? You seem to have a very similar approach.

No. Homeboy and I had several debates on his favorite subject on healthcare.

Bigsby says

You don't discuss those topics with friends? I can relate to avoiding discussion of religion, but people talk constantly about politics over here. As for in depth conversations about economics, well I guess that entirely depends on what you are referring to.

Politics are only touched in polite company when both parties know they already share the same view . . . hence my earlier reference to "echo chamber." If you think your shared view is the only one out there, you'd be sadly mistaken. Friends do get into heated debates on politics from different views don't stay friends for long.

Bigsby says

Really? Maybe for new arrivals or people staying for a short time. Once you make actual friends rather than mere business acquaintances, you discuss what you find important to you, do you not? The locals here don't sit around diwaniyas for hours on end avoiding contention. They bloody love it.

So why don't they have fights on religion? See comment above.

Call it Crazy says

upisdown
says

I never implied anything, I just posted the exact same article link that you
did,

Sorry loser, but you TRIED to post links (but they are all dead links) from
January news releases instead of February.... There is a difference...

LOL, I did a search with 'Businessweek homebuilder confidence' and those(obviously many others too) came up and all I did was copy and paste them here in my post. There's one from 1/2013, one from 1/2014, and one from 2/2014. I posted them to annoy you, and it did, mainly because you read numerous things into it, and all I said was that they all used the same source(NAHB homebuilder confidence poll), which they did. Idiot.

So, if they're dead links, how the heck did you click on them then to start off on (another)your insinuating rant? Do you even BOTHER to think before you type?

Call it Crazy says

Hmmm, you also need spell check, but that's even above your pay grade...

You're right, and it's because I don't know how to type, so if there was a way that I knew about to do spell check, I surely would do it because it's annoying to even me. Thanks for stating the obvious, dipshit.

LOL, I post the exact same article link that YOU did, and NOW it's useless. This is after you claim the drastic weather this year has had no impact on anything, then you go and post the OP that it confirms that it has, and then today you contradict yourself AGAIN, and try and claim that it hasn't. Idiot.

DO you even have the slightest clue as to WHY home building shuts down in the winter/freezing temps other than it's just cold to work in and employee production drops?
I doubt it, but give it a shot anyway, I need some Friday entertainment.

Reality says

You have not met me in person either. What do the people you have met in person have any relevance anyway?

Do you have a point? And they obviously have relevance to my comment about never having MET anyone who holds your views...

Reality says

If you really know no-one sharing my views, then you are just proving your own ignorance regarding various economic thoughts.

It's doing no such thing. I've never met a Roman before, but I know quite a lot about the history of that time. I've also never met a nazi, but I've read a great deal on that particular period in history as well, and on and on I could go. You appear to be conflating 'never met' with 'never heard.' They aren't the same thing, are they?

Reality says

There was no game involved. I used the correct preposition, and you insisted on misinterpreting it and accuse me of something that I never said.

Err, I didn't misrepresent it at all. I made a point of remarking about exactly what you were doing by capitalizing the FOR.

Reality says

Politics are only touched in polite company when both parties know they already share the same view . . . hence my earlier reference to "echo chamber." If you think your shared view is the only one out there, you'd be sadly mistaken. Friends do get into heated debates on politics from different views don't stay friends for long.

You must live a very sheltered life.

Reality says

So why don't they have fights on religion? See comment above.

Why do you think I don't discuss religion? I live in the Middle East. Are you seriously that naive?

Reality says

You bragged about yourself being "expat" for 20 years. "Expat" in your so-called "day-to-day usage" signifies a privileged position in the local economy promoted by the local "expat" Chambers of Commerce around the world.

Er, all foreigners are second class citizens in the Arab world. And there you go again about the local Chambers of Commerce. You seem to have tunnel vision.

Reality says

You bragged about yourself being "expat" for 20 years. "Expat" in your so-called "day-to-day usage" signifies a privileged position in the local economy promoted by the local "expat" Chambers of Commerce around the world.

You have absolutely now clue what you are talking about.

Call it Crazy says

OK, I'll give it a shot....

Just as I thought, you're f-n clueless.

Try again, though without the circle-jerk theatrics.

The original Patnet forum was day by day, blow by blow, response to that moron's shenanigans.

Call it Crazy says

Did you ever hear of Copy and Paste???

Hey genius, did you read the part where I said that I copied and pasted the results of the search?

You really are dense, aren't you.

Call it Crazy says

upisdown
says

Do you even BOTHER to think before you type?

You know, I really wonder that about you????????????

I asked previously, and you just provided an excellent example of not thinking before typing. Way to go, you showed me.

bob2356 says

The term expat is used around the world to describe people who have retired abroad or professionals working abroad (as opposed to laborers who are referred to as immigrant workers).

It's got nothing to do with giving up citizenship (although expats can obviously do that if they have another citizenship) and it certainly has zero to do with chamber of commerce.

"Expats" and "expat" chambers of commerce have been in existence since long before "retirement" became a part of life for most people.

Everyone understands the term and usage except you for some reason. That's really odd as you are trying to claim you've worked abroad, I don't think so.

I understand the term quite well, both the legal meaning of it and how the chambers of commerce overseas promote it. I worked abroad, then the "abroad" became my home country, then I have worked several different "abroads" of various durations, including some to my country of birth as "abroad" because my home country changed. You can say that I actually expatriated from my country of birth in the legal sense.

Bigsby says

You have not met me in person either. What do the people you have met in person have any relevance anyway?

Do you have a point? And they obviously have relevance to my comment about never having MET anyone who holds your views...

Why did even bother to bring up what you have met in person? If your point was strictly about what you have met in person? We are not meeting in person. You were obviously trying to make the point that my points of view were strange. In that case, your lack of exposure to them only signifies your ignorance.

Call it Crazy says

Homebuilder Confidence in U.S. Slumped in February

How shocking! Builders need to counter the "Bankers/Investors" nexus.

Bigsby says

You must live a very sheltered life.

Very funny. I have been living on my own (often having to provide shelter to others) since when I was 14years old.

Bigsby says

So why don't they have fights on religion? See comment above.

Why do you think I don't discuss religion? I live in the Middle East. Are you seriously that naive?

Because you only mentioned the locals love to discuss politics when I mentioned the usual taboo on debating religion and politics in polite company. How often do you engage in civilized debates on religions with your friends? Is that an echo chambers or guns blazing, literally?

Bigsby says

Er, all foreigners are second class citizens in the Arab world. And there you go again about the local Chambers of Commerce. You seem to have tunnel vision.

"Second class citizens" is a very highly privileged position when the society has 4-5 different classes, with only the ruling class as the first class citizens. The average (non-monopolistic) local traders would be below you, the average local laborers would be lower still, then the women, then the imported laborers from 3rd world countries.

Reality says

"Second class citizens" is a very highly privileged position when the society has 4-5 different classes, with only the ruling class as the first class citizens. The average (non-monopolistic) local traders would be below you, the average local laborers would be lower still, then the women, then the imported laborers from 3rd world countries.

You don't know what you are talking about. Expats are second class citizens to ALL Kuwaitis. Obviously, you can then sub-divide the respective locals and foreigners, but that wasn't my point.

Reality says

Why did even bother to bring up what you have met in person? If your point was strictly about what you have met in person? We are not meeting in person. You were obviously trying to make the point that my points of view were strange. In that case, your lack of exposure to them only signifies your ignorance.

No, it doesn't. It signifies that of the people I know and have met none of them hold your particular economic views.

Reality says

Because you only mentioned the locals love to discuss politics when I mentioned the usual taboo on debating religion and politics in polite company. How often do you engage in civilized debates on religions with your friends? Is that an echo chambers or guns blazing, literally?

What are you blathering on about? I'd happily talk about religion (and have) with foreigners in other parts of the world. Here not so much for reasons that should be obvious to you.

Bigsby says

Reality says

"Second class citizens" is a very highly privileged position when the society has 4-5 different classes, with only the ruling class as the first class citizens. The average (non-monopolistic) local traders would be below you, the average local laborers would be lower still, then the women, then the imported laborers from 3rd world countries.

You don't know what you are talking about. Expats are second class citizens to ALL Kuwaitis. Obviously, you can then sub-divide the respective locals and foreigners, but that wasn't my point.

So are you required to cover your face in public? Were people like you not allowed to drive a car before 1991? (women in Kuwait). 2/3 to 3/4 of the people living in Kuwait are not Kuwaitis! Like I said, "2nd class citizen" in that society means you are above the next 3-4 different classes, second only to the ruling elite.

Bigsby says

Why did even bother to bring up what you have met in person? If your point was strictly about what you have met in person? We are not meeting in person. You were obviously trying to make the point that my points of view were strange. In that case, your lack of exposure to them only signifies your ignorance.

No, it doesn't. It signifies that of the people I know and have met none of them hold your particular economic views.

Since we are not meeting in person, why did you bother to bring that up? Except as a way of saying how strange my economic views are. They are strange to you because you are ignorant.

Bigsby says

What are you blathering on about? I'd happily talk about religion (and have) with foreigners in other parts of the world. Here not so much for reasons that should be obvious to you.

So how many religious debates have you (presumably a Christian or agonostic/atheist??) had with the local Wahabist tribesman? Zero? Why do you think that's the case?

Reality says

So are you required to cover your face in public? Were people like you not allowed to drive a car before 1991? (women in Kuwait). 2/3 to 3/4 of the people living in Kuwait are not Kuwaitis! Like I said, "2nd class citizen" in that society means you are above the next 3-4 different classes.

Let me guess, you are now going to 'educate' me about life in present day Kuwait. Don't bother. And I know how many foreigners there are. I live here. And what has driving a car before '91 got to do with anything? Oh, and obviously I'm not going to list every sub group and say this person is socially higher than that person, so don't waste your time going down that path. It was obvious what I meant. Foreigners are considered to be beneath the local citizens. Certain foreigners are obviously more 'privileged' than other foreigners but as a group we do not have the rights, influence or power that any Kuwaiti can call upon in this society. You would understand that if you lived here, but instead you google a few facts and then think you can tell me what life is like in a country that I've lived in for more than a decade. Like I said, don't waste your time.

Bigsby says

Oh, let me guess, you are now going to 'educate' me about life in present day Kuwait. Don't bother. And I know how many foreigners there are. I live here. And what has driving a car before '91 got to do with anything? I'm not going to list every sub group and say this person is socially higher than that person, so don't waste your time going down that path. It was obvious what I meant. Foreigners are considered to be beneath the local citizens. Certain foreigners are obviously more 'privileged' than other foreigners but as a group we do not have the rights, influence or power that any Kuwaiti can call upon in this society. You would understand that if you lived here, but instead you google a few facts and then think you can tell me what life is like in a country that I've lived in for more than a decade. Like I said, don't waste your time.

"Local citizens" in Kuwait means 1/4 to 1/3 of the population. Half of that small fraction are women, which makes them second class to men in that society's tradition. You are not going to bamboozle me with "all foreigners are 2nd class citizens in Kuwait" because I know that the overwhelming majority of the population in that country are "foreigners." I did a research paper on that country just before Saddam Hussein invaded it. I don't need to waste time googling.