patrick.net

As predicted, he arrived.
Heraclitusstudent says

How someone dresses, uses social media, and what people do in their private
lives is mostly irrelevant as to how they can handle a job.

Not quite - if he uses drugs (including alcohol) to the point that affects his behavior while he is on the job. It is relevant. If his appearance makes customers decide to stop coming to my store - it is relevant. As are things like the hygene, the language that is used (swear words), putting attention to the cell phone instead of the customer, not showing up for work because (fill in the blank). Yeah, there are a LOT of things that a person's appearance, behavior, and what is done in the personal life DO affect how and if they can handle the job.

Even mcdonalds would not hire someone like that when there are plenty of decent and responsible youths who would be glad to work for McDonalds.
The teens and 20's need to realize if they want a job, it's the employer who makes the rules. You either do what it takes to get a job or live in your parents basement until you grow up.

Heraclitusstudent says

If an employer looks at a Facebook page, sees someone drunk, and concludes this
person is an alcoholic, this employer is an idiot.

Maybe, maybe not - I'm offering the job. If I have reason to believe that you may not do a good job for me due to being drunk, then I have the right to not hire you. If you're stupid enough to post (for the world) to see when you're stupid - well, you've just shown me two examples of stupidity. First by getting drunk, then by posting it for the world to see. I have a business to run that I don't need to be run down or in any way made to look bad by the actions of my employees - be it on my time or not.

Heraclitusstudent says

Most jobs are not customer facing and don't require fancy attires.

I don't really care if the position is one where you meet customers or not. If you come to an interview (even for a warehouse job) in a tee shirt and torn jeans ... sorry, you made a less than good impression and I'll keep looking. You have one chance to make a good impression, so do it. If you're attitude or thoughts or whatever doesn't allow you to dress up a bit for getting my job, then you don't really want it. I work construction, BUT, I dress up for interviews. When I get hired, I KNOW not to wear my suit to the job site. Oh dang, there I go using common sense again.

Yellen just reported that the jobs picture still sucks, 6 years after QE1 was initiated...................

For those in their teens and 20's - lots of good advise here about landing a job.
When I was a teenager, I thought I knew better than the more experienced folks. I learnt the hard way just how wrong I was.

anonymous says

I retired from a very large international company and if your behavior in your private life draws unwanted or adverse attention to the company, you will do so as well. Regardless of traveling on company business etc. or just day to day living you are a representative of the company you work for

I think it was some 10 years ago but I'd heard of a story about an ex-pat, who'd lost a huge job because of his internet postings. This person was a management consultant, assigned to a big client in Seoul, S. Korea.

Well, instead of being discreet about his personal life. He went on a drinking spree & banged tons of women, night after night, and bragged about it, sending emails, posting on forums, etc. Well, not using an alias (plus a VPN service), a friend of a friend sent copies of his exploits to the employer, and the consultant was fired.

So yes, how you're perceived by employers, esp when you represent your nation's HQ office for a client, does matter.

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

For those in their teens and 20's - lots of good advise here about landing a job.

When I was a teenager, I thought I knew better than the more experienced folks. I learnt the hard way just how wrong I was.

How about the one's in their 30's here... Don't leave them out...

I would guess those in their 30's would have learnt from their mistakes.
If you're still in the basement there is no hope for you, you'll just get buried there one day.

mmmarvel says

you've just shown me two examples of stupidity. First by getting drunk, then by posting it for the world to see. I have a business to run that I don't need to be run down or in any way made to look bad by the actions of my employees - be it on my time or not.

1 - Most young people get drunk sometime. There is nothing stupid about that, unless you think most young people are stupid or having fun is stupid - which I suspect is the case and doesn't reflect well on your own view of the world.
2 - (1) not being stupid means that there is nothing stupid about posting pictures of a party where you happen to have been drunk.

mmmarvel says

u have one chance to make a good impression

So basically you are telling us, in your opinion, other people should assume you judge them on appearances, therefore they should act like you do, and so as a result you feel entitled to judge on appearances.

Do you realize how stupidly circular this logic is?

Hopefully a good candidate has other strengths, in which case he has every reason to dislike bosses who judge people on appearances.

Herac says:

Hopefully a good candidate has other strengths, in which case he has every reason to dislike bosses who judge people on appearances.

Strategist:
You are right but first impressions are the most important.
There is a saying-" First impressions are lasting impressions"

mmmarvel says

He can get a job in a circus- as a freak.

Strategist says

As are things like the hygene

Talking of successful boomers: it's a well known fact that Steve Jobs personal hygiene was bad. He often wore no shoes and liked to stick his feet in the toilet. He smelled so foul that none of his co-workers at Atari in the seventies would work with him.

Heraclitusstudent says

1 - Most young people get drunk sometime. There is nothing stupid about that,
unless you think most young people are stupid or having fun is stupid - which I
suspect is the case and doesn't reflect well on your own view of the world.

Yes, in my youth, I too have imbibed too much - BUT - I never posted it for the world to see how stupid I was.

Heraclitusstudent says

2 - (1) not being stupid means that there is nothing stupid about posting
pictures of a party where you happen to have been drunk.

What????

Heraclitusstudent says

So basically you are telling us, in your opinion, other people should assume
you judge them on appearances, therefore they should act like you do, and so as
a result you feel entitled to judge on appearances.

No, I'm telling you that I'm the one hiring. If you want the job, impress me. Impress me with your resume which will get me to call you. Impress me over the phone, which will get you an interview. Finally, impress me in person and you might get the job. I have the job opening, I have the right to JUDGE on each of the above catagories.

Heraclitusstudent says

Talking of successful boomers: it's a well known fact that Steve Jobs
personal hygiene was bad. He often wore no shoes and liked to stick his feet in
the toilet. He smelled so foul that none of his co-workers at Atari in the
seventies would work with him.

And as soon as you're as successful as Steve Jobs, you can run the business any way you want to. As Call it Crazy said, come to work nude. Specify a totally-nude day each week, there will be certain people who won't want to work for you for just that. When you run your own business, you can hire the dude I posted with the tats on his face and the the other "accessories". Like Jobs, you might be successful, then good for you. However, if you fail ... well, then you'd better be ready to conform to what your 'new' employer is looking for rather than what YOU think is right or okay.

True, so very true. Just like believing statistics released by the National Association of Realtors, Redfin or Zillow, is like believing statistics posted by Ford on why Ford is the best car to buy. Makes no sense at first, but it makes some sense if you accept that over 90% of the population is a bunch of media fed, ignorant, dumbed down sheep that have zero practice in thinking for themselves.

Ppl, here's a perfect example of a guy, who should probably not be sharing his fantasy with the entire planet.

This guy is banging a realistic mannequin and has actually fantasized about her being a real person.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/VjJtmcJM-Rw

You see, this is the kinda stuff, where if this guy ever had to change jobs, could put him in the rejection pile, even if he's generally qualified.

Boomers are smarter on average than millenials, and less likely to be slackers who feel privileged. I don't recall the study, but generally boomers have an advantage in the brains area. They're also likely to have grown up before illegals did the menial jobs, so lots of boomers did many kinds of low paid work to save up for movies, etc.
My friend's a boomer with 2 millenial kids. They studied at UCSC and both have diplomas that you can wipe your ass with. The male has his meals prepared and his laundry done by his mother and father still, but he's in his mid 20's!
I feel a little sorry for the millenials, they've been sold a bill of goods and have to compete with foreigners for all jobs they'd be doing to learn what it's like to work somewhere.
I also feel sorry for guys who are looking for a job and get googled and something they forgot they posted gets discovered.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

T or F: Listing with a REALTOR is Exactly Like Hiring Jeffrey Dahmer to Babysit

False. Jeffrey Dahmer served a purpose in the world: population control. Realtors serve none.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

That's a disgusting thing to say.

This is not a generational issue, this is a job climate issue, and one due mostly to globalization and where the US finds itself today.

Call It Crazy, as long as our education system was geared toward teaching people to go CREATE a job, I'd agree with you. The fact is, we have an industrial era/trades education system that doesn't do that.

clambo, the point you make about how kids growing up in the digital era is very true. Parents have to know enough to teach their children that, "The internet is forever." Unfortunately the tech divide has never be as large as it is right now with the millennials and their parents.

mmmarvel says

And as soon as you're as successful as Steve Jobs

1 - Boomers, you stank and still were hired. But now you blame Millennials for their hygiene?

2 - See, success doesn't depend on hygiene.

Call it Crazy says

Boomers did all types of work and had the "just do it" mentality, no matter what

Continues to ignore the economic background and cultivate attribution bias.

clambo says

Boomers are smarter on average than millenials

Do you believe Boomers have a genetic advantage over their children, or that the pollution they generated attacked their kids brains?

Rew says

The fact is, we have an industrial era/trades education system that doesn't do that.

If ONLY - but sadly NO. No, the educational system is college bound. Try to teach a kid about laying mud for putting up a brick wall. Try to teach a kid to measure plywood and figure the extra needed for what the blade will take off. Try to teach a kid how to figure the length of pipe accounting for 30 degree, 45 degree and 90 degree fittings ... almost impossible. Add to that the lack of work ethic, kids who whine (yes, whine aloud) about working more than 8 hours. About working more than 5 days a week, in some cases complaining about working more than 3 days in a row. No, the trades and industrial programs have gone by the wayside. About the only place that you find them anymore is at the community college by kids who are tired of crappy jobs in IT (and yes, I know that lots of IT jobs pay very well) where they either can't cut it or are tired of fighting against waves of foreign students who are competing for those jobs. There has been a HUGE prejudice against teaching a kid a trade. A huge expectation (in kids) that they will earn big bucks programming, making games, etc. etc. No Rew - we/I only WISH that trades/industrial programs were still around. We only WISH that kids learned a decent work ethic as they grow up.

mmmarvel says

No, I'm telling you that I'm the one hiring. If you want the job, impress me. Impress me with your resume which will get me to call you. Impress me over the phone, which will get you an interview. Finally, impress me in person and you might get the job. I have the job opening, I have the right to JUDGE on each of the above catagories.

That's exactly what I said: You're the boss, so you feel it's ok to select on appearance whenever it suits you, because you can, and if they don't acknowledge it, then screw them.
That's still stupid, but whatever.

I'll go along. If you wanted to sell you house, how would you go about it with out a Realtor? The reason I ask is, I going to sell my house and I hate paying $30K to agents. thank you

Heraclitusstudent says

1 - Boomers, you stank and still were hired. But now you blame Millennials for their hygiene?

2 - See, success doesn't depend on hygiene.

You seem to really admire Jobs. Are your eyes as open to his flaws?

Jobs did while at Apple that were deeply disturbing. Rude, dismissive, hostile, spiteful: Apple employees—the ones not bound by confidentiality agreements—have had a different story to tell over the years about Jobs and the bullying, manipulation and fear that followed him around Apple. Jobs contributed to global problems, too. Apple's success has been built literally on the backs of Chinese workers, many of them children and all of them enduring long shifts and the specter of brutal penalties for mistakes. And, for all his talk of enabling individual expression, Jobs imposed paranoid rules that centralized control of who could say what on his devices and in his company. In the name of protecting children from the evils of erotica — "freedom from porn" — and adults from one another, Jobs has banned from being installed on his devices gay art, gay travel guides, political cartoons, sexy pictures, Congressional candidate pamphlets, political caricature, Vogue fashion spreads, systems invented by the opposition, and other things considered morally suspect.

Jobs was human. He was successful and if you're lucky, you can be too. I recognize Jobs on both fronts, the things he produced which has been of a benefit to this world (although I don't own a single Apple device) and his flaws. If he had not been successful, he would have had a difficult time in the corporate world; which indeed was one of the reasons that he set out on his own. View all the sides of Jobs. And do something about BO and bad breath.

Really, with the tools we have today, as long as you have a lawyer and a title company, and MLS listings can be viewed by sellers and utilized by buyers, why bother paying a real estate agent more than most people make in a year to do practically nothing?

Sellers can use: http://www.homeownersrealty.com/system/login.aspx?redir=&msg=You+must+have+paid+access+to+use+this+feature.
There are other sites like this.

Buyers can simply use Zillow. Things come up there just as quickly as they do on my cousin's (who is a real estate agent) automated listing program.

A lawyer usually costs about $300 to do the contract and the title company is usually pretty reasonable also. If you need financing, it's always best to go with a reputable mortgage company that is not recommended by a realtor. Ask Logan here on patrick.net for more info on that.

mmmarvel says

You seem to really admire Jobs. Are your eyes as open to his flaws?

Jobs did while at Apple that were deeply disturbing. Rude, dismissive, hostile, spiteful:

All I said right there was Jobs was a boomer, had bad hygiene, and was successful.

Heraclitusstudent says

1 - Boomers, you stank and still were hired. But now you blame Millennials for their hygiene?

2 - See, success doesn't depend on hygiene.

Actually, no we didn't stink (at least the majority of us and certainly those who got hired didn't stink). We were told by parents, by friends, by girlfriends, heck sometimes even by strangers that we stunk and needed to do something about it. When I raised my kids, if they stunk (and it only happened once), I refused to go where we were suppose to go (an important event) until they showered and put on deodorant. It was a basic lesson that was drill home to me and I drilled home to my kids. Yes, hygiene is VERY important, both to getting a job and to having a society that you don't mind being around without gagging.

driscoll63 says

I'll go along. If you wanted to sell you house, how would you go about it with out a Realtor? The reason I ask is, I going to sell my house and I hate paying $30K to agents. thank you

One more thing, make sure to take fantastic photos for the MLS listing, 25 is a good number. Also, set up open houses at least every two weeks once you purchase a spot on the MLS. Make sure Zillow and other sites accurately list your contact info. A secondary email is best for this that you check often.

Heraclitusstudent says

All I said right there was Jobs was a boomer, had bad hygiene, and was successful.

And he was one of out ???? Yup, Steve stunk and many of his early co-workers didn't like it. There are exceptions everywhere, hope you're an exception and make it big.

sbh says

If it can be shown that Boomers outnumbered all other voters then I'll fall on my sword. If the Ms and Gen-xers didn't vote then they have nothing to say. Thanks for taking my call and I'll await your answer off the air.

You don't have to take all the blame.

Just take your share of it.

Which I have yet to see one boomer do.

Heraclitusstudent says

That's exactly what I said: You're the boss, so you feel it's ok to select on appearance whenever it suits you, because you can, and if they don't acknowledge it, then screw them.

Ummm, and you choose an employee on what? First line is resume. What have you done, how long did you do it? Why aren't you doing it anymore? Then comes talking, I'm not going to hire a waiter or salesperson if they have a stutter, sorry, it just doesn't make sense. Finally I hire on appearance. I'd rather have someone who fit in, in every sense of the word, than one that everyone else had to adjust to. Again, I'm not going to hire the fellow who's picture I posted as a waiter even if his resume and phone interview went well, sorry he (in most restaurants) won't be a fit. I want the customers to feel comfortable, not have them talking about their waiter all night; and possibly not come back because he made them uncomfortable with his appearance and/or was the topic of conversation.

mmmarvel says

And he was one of out ???? Yup, Steve stunk and many of his early co-workers didn't like it. There are exceptions everywhere

Oh my, if anecdotal evidence doesn't count, I guess we'll have to dismiss the article that started this thread then.

mmmarvel says

Actually, no we didn't stink

Hey... I wasn't at SF summer of love. I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure a lot of these hippies just stank.

But now that they're old and grumpy... they're all about forms, manners and hygiene.

Go figure.

Call it Crazy says

So far, what H.S. has shown us, is that he's exceptional at whining and passing blame.... Is there a job for that???

... Says the guy who started a whining thread blaming Millennials.
Yours apparently!

Heraclitusstudent says

You don't have to take all the blame.

Just take your share of it.

Which I have yet to see one boomer do.

Huh? I'm no more or less guilty than my father was to me. Here is your world, warts and all, do your best, that is all I ask. Quit whining (which was another lesson hammered home), it is what it is, what can you do with it? Life isn't a bowl of cherries, it's mostly the pits, figure it out. You want to live in CA? Well, maybe you can't afford it. You have a choice, figure out a place that you can live on your salary or whine about the fact that your life in CA sucks. I'm no more or less guilty than you. Because I took up the challenge, got slapped back (several times) by life and got back up again - I've got nothing to apologize for. I don't owe you a thing. You don't owe me a thing. I brought my kids up but once they were grown ... I didn't own them a thing. I couldn't afford college for my kids, they both (both girls) went into the Army. They now have the GI bill and Veterans loan (when they decide to buy a house). Oh, I'm sure you have a ton of reasons why you would NEVER join the military, and that's fine - but yeah, I have no blame to take and it sounds like you'd do well to look at ALL options and follow another path.

@call it crazy, I'm in agreement but the millenials also have had a disadvantage because their professors are much more clueless than boomer's instructors.
I feel slightly sorry but not very sorry for the millenials. They better fuckin wise up.
If you are at UCSC and your instructor is Angela Davis, you may need to consider getting another major and dropping that class. If you don't know who Angela Davis is, then you are not a boomer. We also know who Bill Ayers is.
I don't know many millenials but the ones I know have been straight up pussified beyond recognition, it's amazing. I don't blame them but rather the crap they were inculcated with in schools.
Shit, there are people out there telling you to feel guilty for driving a truck for fuck's sake, how is a kid supposed to survive this abuse to grow a set of balls?

Now hiring.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/zRsxBVMwFoU

Heraclitusstudent says

Hey... I wasn't at SF summer of love. I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure a lot of these hippies just stank.

First, unless you were there (and I'm not quite that old) then you really can't talk. Second, I said mmmarvel says

and certainly those who got hired didn't stink,

Read everything, quite cherry picking.