patrick.net

Are you actually reading what you are writing.

SVN controlled the urban area's. My point exactly, that's pretty much the coastal area's around Da Nang/Hue, Saigon, and Cam Ranh Bay/Nah Trang. The so called hinterlands is the other 90% of the country.

You keep saying all we had to do was set up a blocking force in Laos then keep pointing out that it would be almost impossible to do. It would actually be totally impossible and if tried would be bypassed one way or another.

You keep saying the ARVN had things under control, but without the US troops they couldn't hold. That's not under control.

Did you actually read Mcnamara's interview:

"We were fighting -- and we didn't realize it -- a civil war. Now, true, obviously there were Soviet and Chinese influence and support and no question that the communists were trying to control South Vietnam, but it was basically a civil war.
And one of the things we should learn is you can't fight and win a civil war with outside troops, and particularly not when the political structure in a country is dissolved. So it wasn't the press that was the problem. The problem was that we were in the wrong place with the wrong tactics.''

I don't see any nuance at all to the phrase "you can't fight and win a civil war with outside troops", at least the way I understand the meaning of the word can't.

If you believe the war could have been "won" then good for you, lots of people disagree, Especially since no one was able to define what "won" was. Just curious, what would be your definition of "won"? At what point and under what circumstances could the south stand on it's own without billions of dollars and thousands of lives in Us military involvement every year?

bob2356 says

SVN controlled the urban area's. My point exactly, that's pretty much the coastal area's around Da Nang/Hue, Saigon, and Cam Ranh Bay/Nah Trang. The so called hinterlands is the other 90% of the country.

No, GVN also had the delta secure. The splits were more like 50-50 in the N half of the country, GVN controlled closer to 80% of MR 3 and nearly all of MR 4. Basically PAVN strength diminished by distance to the DMZ.

You keep saying all we had to do was set up a blocking force in Laos then keep pointing out that it would be almost impossible to do. I

Yes, that is the common criticism against Summers and Sorley. It would not have been impossible, but it would have required a commitment about half of what we threw into the South by 1967-68. Westmoreland didn't want to divert half his strength into Laos, he wanted to secure the S.

I don't see any nuance at all to the phrase "you can't fight and win a civil war with outside troops", at least the way I understand the meaning of the word can't.

Yes, Westmorelands tactics were wrong. We pushed aside ARVN and started fighting the war for them. The Marines had a better approach:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Action_Program

with an emphasis on permanent hamlet security presence rather than WW2 in the jungle.

Especially since no one was able to define what "won" was. Just curious, what would be your definition of "won"?

Anything resembling the situation in ROK. "Better Korea" still wants to take over the S, but they are incapable of doing so and the South has buried them economically.

The same thing could have happened in SVN, but it was harder because a) the VC had tons more legitimacy than the Kims, and b) VN is not a peninsula.

But if you ask any southern VC now I don't think many are that happy at how their revolution turned out.

At what point and under what circumstances could the south stand on it's own without billions of dollars and thousands of lives in Us military involvement every year?

Hopefully the S and ARVN would redevelop into self-sufficient power, just like ROK and ROC did. In 1970 both of them were basket cases too, but they had more open ocean protecting them than GVN.

Tude,

There is a difference between posting a simple opinion and posting something that borders on the moronic. Re-read your post and I think you will see how it comes across saying those that have money shouldn't be on the Internet.

Here are a few of your gems:

"Whatever. WTF are you doing on here? WTF are you even on the internet for? 1 million in cash to drop on a house and you ever lay eyes on a f'ing computer let alone post on a internet forum?"

Abraham Lincoln - "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

Good luck.

bubblesburst says

"Whatever. WTF are you doing on here? WTF are you even on the internet for? 1 million in cash to drop on a house and you ever lay eyes on a f'ing computer let alone post on a internet forum?"

Sure I re-read it. I missed a word, I meant "posting on the internet", as in sitting around on a computer talking about how rich and smart you are. Sorry, I think you are sad. I think people like you are what is wrong in the world. Self righteous, condescending. I've read your posts. "I knew there was a problem when my housekeeper could buy a 300k house" lol.

No shit, "investors" aren't buying 1 million dollar homes with cash! What a f'ing revelation, thanks for adding your insight to the conversation...

No, they are too busy buying up the affordable housing in the working class neighborhoods so they can rent it out or sell it for more money to those who have to finance it. Want to brag about how you are doing that too?

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

Good one. I know you are a bit logically deficient, but someone saying proof exists is different than actually providing said proof.

Yeah, let's just keep blaming parties.

This is a good ramble I heard before.

There's a reason education sucks and it is the same reason that it will never ever be fixed. It is never gonna get any better; don't look to be happy with what you got, because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the big, wealthy real owners. The big wealthy business interest that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they are irrelevant. Politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice; you don't. You have no choice. You have owners, they own you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they control the corporations; have long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state, the city, they have the judges in their back pocket and they own all the big media companies. They control just about all the news and information you get. They have you by the balls and they spend billions of dollars every year lobbying the circuit. Do you know what they want? Well we know what they want, they want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but i'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed well educated citizens. It would be political upheaval. A lot of people aren't smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they getting fucked by a system for thirty fucking years or more. They want obedient workers. Obedient workers are people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shitty jobs with the lower pay, longer hours with reduced benefits. The end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect, and now their coming for your social security money. They want to fuck your retirement money, they want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on wall street. And, you know something their going to get it from you soon cuz they own this fucking place. It's a big fucking club and you ain't in it. Honest, hard-working people continue... the people of modest means continue to elect these rich cock suckers who don't give a fuck about you.

Not completely word for word, but a great rant that has a lot of truths.

shrekgrinch says

tatupu70 says

Good one. I know you are a bit logically deficient, but someone saying proof exists is different than actually providing said proof.

You just admitted that you are full of shit, then.

Way to go, tat!

lol--Again. I know logic isn't your forte, but you're really screwing the pooch on this one.

I'm still waiting for you to provide any evidence.

(here's a clue for you: someone saying evidence exists isn't actually evidence)

shrekgrinch says

Google them yourself. I have long given up wasting my time to provide proof that you will absolutely refuse to acknowledge or will throw out useless (and inaccurate) red herrings or flat out ignore my response.

Ah, yes. The last resort of a troll. When asked to back up any of their claims with actual facts, they pull the "I don't have time", or "I'm not your google bitch" excuse. Shrek clearly has time enough to post 1891 comments here and has no trouble coming up with links when he wants to...

75 minute Debt ceiling meetings.

Bang up job guys, no don't put your self out, on a Sunday. I'm sure the ride to the meeting took longer than the meeting its self.

Now Obama promises meeting every day, between now and August 2 that's like a whopping 12 hours of talk.

"Obama reiterated his warning against either party taking a "maximalist position" in the ongoing negotiations, and insisted he is willing to take "significant heat" from his own party in order to get a deal done.

Republican leaders should as well, he said, referencing GOP opposition to any tax hikes."

In udder woids

Obama is willing to make the poor even poorer, if we could just tax the slippery rich.

Uh I don't want to be the voice of reason here(why start now) but, if Obama is willing to cut the valid social services the poor, elderly and infirmed, then why do we need to raise taxes.

To fund his Libya sorties?

Are you sure you guys aren't Republicans? It sure smells like it.

This is the era of "Microwaved Legislation"

sniff sniff can you smell it, Obama care took less time to craft, than it takes to microwave Popcorn.

But the bill would actually take longer to read through than War and Peace.

"Well I guess we just gotta pass it to see what's in it..." - Nancy Paleeze

Tenouncetrout says

"Don't let Obama drive us to disaster, change direction."

He can't change direction. He got no traction.

HousingWatcher says

How did TARP hurt small businesses?

By
a. debasing $
b. transferring wealth to banksters

Gold is clearly in a bubble. Unfortunately, as we have learned from real estate, it's impossible to tell how long a bubble will last. As John Maynard Keynes said, "Markets can remain irrational longer than you or I can remain solvent."

When gold falls, it probably will fall quickly because it is much more liquid and much smaller of a market than real estate. But timing that event is very risky.

I plan to stay away from the gold bubble just like I stayed away from the real estate bubble and the .com bubble. I figure, there are so many sharks in that pool that have insider info and watch the market 24/7. Those of us with day jobs can't afford the time needed to compete with the sharks.

Yes, Obama's polices stink. But any Republican who may beat Obama is going to be no better and will get voted out in 2016 when the economy still stinks.

The Republicans have controlled the House for 6 months and have yet to pass a single jobs bill. Not one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ixNPplo-SU

I was just marveling at this chart yesterday:

Certainly a nice channel it's got there.

Italy will be the next catalyst, most likely.

Greece is already defaulted in my book. 31% for a 2 yr bond is just ridiculous.

Dan8267 says

Gold is clearly in a bubble.

Where is the irrational exuberance? Without showing this irrationality, just because you "feel" it is like a bubble doesn't make it so.

Many could clearly see housing was in a bubble when sub-prime loans started originating all over the place. That was the saturation point.

The saturation point for gold is so far away that I can't see it. Most people don't even know how to value it as a part of their portfolio.

All factors point an upward momentum for gold.

^ I agree with this.

Competitive devaluation just pushes up oil, gold, and all other commodities.

Sugar's up almost 100% in two years, too.

Here's a recent interview by Andrew Maguire, the whistleblower who exposed the naked shorts on precious metals markets by the big banks.

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/7/11_Andrew_Maguire.html

He talks about the impact of a new 'Pan Asian Gold Exchange' on the price discovery of the physical gold/silver.

michaelsch says

HousingWatcher says

How did TARP hurt small businesses?

By
a. debasing $
b. transferring wealth to banksters

Why does that specifically target small businesses?

The banks had to pay TARP back with interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRyt4r8kxuo

I guess people quickly had forgotten that this
recession started during Bush administration.

Obama may not be doing the right thing. But
can we really blame him alone when it took 8 years
for Bush to do all the damage?

HousingWatcher says

The Republicans have controlled the House for 6 months and have yet to pass a single jobs bill. Not one.

So it's up to congress to create jobs now? Any jobs government creates are not going to be sustainable. Free market has to decide which jobs are needed at what pay grade.

The way Obama has been making promises it is up to the big government to create jobs, decide what we all should do, which houses we should live in, what healthcare we should have. But it all starts with voters who want to live off hand outs and be told what to do instead of paving their own path in life.

Nobody says

I guess people quickly had forgotten that this

recession started during Bush administration.

Obama may not be doing the right thing. But

can we really blame him alone when it took 8 years

for Bush to do all the damage?

I am pretty disappointed about how Obama has tried to fix this mess so far, but it does seem that some have very selective memories about how we got started on this down turn.

Known Criminals hired to hack phones by Newscorp
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6155b970-abe6-11e0-945a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1Rud1qtvy

Queen's Own Guards phone hacked by Newscorp
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23968944-hacking-scandal-queens-police-sold-her-details-to-now.do

Newscorp attempted hack of 9/11 survivors' phones
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/911-victims-phones-hacking/2011/07/11/id/403169

Just like the Italian, German, Irish, etc., etc.. It's a poverty thing, not a cultural issue. The only way to secure the borders is to have strict enough penalties and enforcement that no one will hire illegals. That's not gong to happen. Too many people make way too much money from the current situation. As long as there are people willing to employ illegals then they will come, even if you put the entire US military on the Mexican boarder. So nothing is going to happen, unless enough people get fed up that the politicians are more afraid of the voters than losing campaign contributions from employers exploiting illegals.

It's the victims fault for not being smart enough to change their passcode from 1234.
SO no sympathy here, for any involved.

Besides it's not like it was a facebook or tweeter hack.
that would create a rabble.

"Give us 100% AND we kill the hostage"

"But its YOUR fault, you made us do it."

"AND I happen to have this buddy over here who owns a mortuary chain that can dispose of the body"

Like I said, this is a gift for the Dems.

Assuming the reality of the situation escapes the rightwing media machine's obfuscation and enough voters grow the f- up.

Obama's alleged bargaining "sacrifices" really really pissed me off -- pushing off my medicare two years (costing me who knows how much), cutting my social security by $1000/yr.

Granted, if the Republicans walk away from this and destroy the country it will have been a master, master stroke by Obama and I will forgive him.

Republicans wanted to fight in Iraq and blow $3T on our military 2002-now, and now they don't want to pay for it, or, worse, they want ME to pay for it when I was against going in in the first place. F-ing Idiots.

Don't forget it was Republicans that wanted TARP.
Obama had no choice to keep it going. Now,
it is time to cut the budget and increase the
revenue.

What about all the unemployed inner city blacks and poor rural whites?

Farmers just don't want to pay free market wages.

Nobody says

Don't forget it was Republicans that wanted TARP.

Obama had no choice to keep it going. Now,

it is time to cut the budget and increase the

revenue.

Rofl, now TARP is 100% Republican? It was mostly the Republicans who voted it down initially. The dems were mostly behind it in full force. In the end, it was a bipartisan effort. They all loaded their special interests into the bill and voted as if this were a common everyday bill

EMan says

you and some media out there are very biased toward having a balanced budget without more taxes

LOL. Do you have functioning brain?

Since 2000:
The defense budget has nearly TRIPLED, rising from $350B to $950B.
Medicare/Medicaid has DOUBLED, from $400B to $900B.
The FICA surplus has gone from $70B to a deficit of $30B, a swing of $100B.
Welfare has DOUBLED from $200B to $500B.

Meanwhile, federal income taxes are $50B LESS than 2000:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=15B

OF COURSE WE HAVE TO RAISE TAXES TO PAY FOR ALL THIS SPENDING.

Of course, the Republican strategy is to force spending cuts, but not in defense. They want to cut social security, medicare, medicaid, welfare, education, etc.

We are so f-ed. Hello China or Mexico.

Nobody says

Don't forget it was Republicans that wanted TARP.

Obama had no choice to keep it going. Now,

it is time to cut the budget and increase the

revenue.

Yeah because it was a Republican controlled senate and congress right? And because it was Obama that promptly ran home to craft the TARP bail outs from his campaign trail, as to look rationale and doing something.

It's the Mongolians fault! It was the Penguins, we've been framed!

Oh and Bravo!!!!

Obama doesn't get to complete his Vanity mission.
He'll go down in History as a one term failure.

That is Change we can all agree on. The bipartisan summer of love, the Universal Health care, the ending of two wars, the not raising taxes on single penny for any American....

The Lies, after lies, after lies, after lies...

Thank God someone is stopping that Mad Man.

Gold's bubble will probably bust in 2-3 yrs.