patrick.net

apples to oranges.
the bronze age did not have technology to rescue them...

Rew says

If you could ask the Bronze Age why it ended, it would tell you climate was a huge factor: causing waves of refugees, crop failures, drought, trade disruption, wars, and little by little ... crumble she goes. In short, 2-4 degrees is a stressor humanity really doesn't need or want, regardless of "survival".

Hater says

You asked the question. What does that say about you?

I asked the question to demonstrate that your OP was vague and depended on values. My answer would be that the question is vague, so there is no objective 'best for humanity.' My preference, which I stated in an earlier post, would be to avoid a catastrophic event and for population to decline for other reasons.

I also think that searching for what is 'best for humanity' is not a good way to set policy, because it devalues individual rights (Locke's basis for morality) in favor of maximizing total happiness (Mill's basis). I wrote about this in an earlier post.

Hater says

It could.

In this and other posts, you are implying that nobody knows anything about this. The only way to come to this conclusion is to reject what scientist and science tells us. Just flipping a coin is no way to set policy. Demanding absolute proof before acting is also no way to set policy. Nobody would ever do anything in such a world.

Hater says

why can't any believers tell us what the average global temp and average global co2 should be in an ideal world?

Why doesn't hater know how stupid this argument of his sounds ?

Is he saying warmer with higher Co2, hotter climate, warmer oceans, different coastlines, many species dying off (at least for upcoming millenia) might be a good thing as far as we know ?

A gambling company affiliated with financial giant Cantor Fitzgerald went all in on Monday — agreeing to pay the feds $16.5 million to avoid prosecution over scams committed with bookies known as the “Jersey Boys.”

CG Technology, formerly known as Cantor Gaming, admitted a slew of wrongdoing that could have gotten it charged with illegal gambling and money laundering.

http://nypost.com/2016/10/03/gambling-company-linked-to-cantor-fined-16-5m-in-scam-case/

Hater says

Please,no more long paragraphs

Do long and complicated thoughts hurt your head? If so, I apologize for any damage that I may have caused. You can stick to your analogies with 'fevers'. I'll save my time for someone interested in more complicated discussions.

Hater says

I seem to have missed your answer.

You seem to have missed more than that.

The myth that good students need to get into good universities to have good careers has destroyed a lot of lives. The statistics show that even at top Ivy League schools like Yale and Harvard, the middle third of each class of STEM majors has only 56% chance of graduating with a STEM degree. Consider that these are brilliant kids with stellar academic records who would be in the top 1% of students in any non Ivy League school, where they would have 90% completion rate in a STEM degree.
That's a huge damn risk you're taking with your smart and ambitious kid, reducing their chances of ever working in the area of their passion by a staggering 34% when You send them to Harvard.
For the bottom third the numbers are absolutely dismal, only 18% graduate with a STEM degree. And these would be in the top 5% at any state school with an 85% graduation rate! The reduction in chances is a world-ending 67% of you send your bright, very accomplished kid to Princeton!

And for this severe penalty in graduation rates, you pay a premium in tuition that's far and away greater than a regular state school.

We need to wake up about this. Don't send your smart kid to a "good" school where she's going to be a little fish in a very deep pond of other super smart kids. That's a way to discourage and ruin her academic career forever.

Another weak troll thread from a SOCIALIST that doesn't pay,IN FULL,for all the benefits he receives.

Hater says

Does anyone know what the ideal temp and co2 percentage is for human life.

WE will soon be finding out what temp & CO2 levels man can tolerate.

You beginner trolls do know that Trump is President.
Any other private citizen can make as much as they want.
Why do you hate Free Enterprise, JEALOUS?

Second troll lesson today.

Looks like Obama is collecting his ex-post facto bribes for Obamneycare and the least prosecution of white collar crimes since the mid-90s, when there was no financial crisis aftermath.

Did they ever fine Wells Fargo when it pretty much admitted in public filings to multiple regulation violations? I think even the CEO didn't deny it when asked?

I forget much of the details but this happened last summer I think.

marcus says

Trump has billions in highly leveraged real estate that will be affected in epic ways by inflation. meanwhile china wants to please him and he's in their markets in a big way as is his daughter. This is a first for America, having a President in these circumstances. In business for themselves and affecting his wealth in extreme ways while in office with his policies. This is what's stranger than fiction.

Trump had 100s of businesses pre presidency and had created > 20,000 jobs. Obama had no business and no jobs prior to the presidency, and now is a millionaire after holding fast on NAFTA and making wall street speaches.

Obama enriches himself only, and Trump works for no salary - already had been a businessperson prior - there is a vast difference!

"Did they ever fine Wells Fargo when it pretty much admitted in public filings to multiple regulation violations?"

Yes.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/execs-hot-seat-wells-fargo-gets-ok-bankruptcy-214924739.html

Hater says

Help me then. Should the world be a little hotter or a little cooler than it is now?

The science is settled after all.

Seems you have lost all integrity in this thread, unless you really are ignorant enough to think an anonymous internet forum is a good source to increase your grasp of Climate Science. One can only conclude you are being grossly disingenuous. You aren't looking for "Help" or to form any understanding at all. If you were, you would have read more carefully above. People have answered you thoughtfully. That appears far more than you deserve.

"and now is a millionaire after holding fast on NAFTA and making wall street speaches."

He's a millionaire because he wrote 2 best selling books. Did you forget that part?

Hater says

No one has answered my question.

You are wrong. You aren't reading.

I'll bump this now and then before the meetup.

I doubt it's over. Look for an executive action imposing a tariff on a type of goods from Mexico with money's debt toward wall construction. Plenty of ways left to skin this particular kitty.

Hater says

Just want to hear about the "settled" science that cannot even tell us what temp and CO2 SHOULD be.

Again, you want me, whom you have no clue what my scientific credibility/literacy may be, to provide you a ppm target for CO2? Do you not think there are target atmospheric CO2 levels proposed from the majority of the scientific community?

Hater says

No. Just making you alarmist look foolish.

Are you sure that's what you just did?

Had to listen to Floyd's,Wall.

Hater says

No. I was hoping for someone credible.

And on Pnet that would be?

Ironman says

Come on Rew, give us your best guess at the temp and CO2 levels. Is this too hard of a question?

Not hard at all. You can widely find the PPM target for CO2 in copious current writings and papers today.

Draw a line on your graph where Humans first show up.

Edit: I'll wait.

Edit 2: Have you found it yet? Need help?

This is called an economic recovery. Not the phony recovery that went on for years under Obama.
Trump did in less than a 100 days, what Obama could not do in 8 years.
Thank You President Trump. America loves you.

Hater says

Rew says

People have answered you thoughtfully.

No one has answered my question.

I'd attempt to answer it, but you'll need to be more specific, otherwise it's impossible to give an answer. You do understand that The Earth is a big place, and different regions, have different climates. Depending on the time of year, each hemisphere gets different exposure to the sun. Also, as The Earth spins and rotates around The Sun, certain parts experience night which means it's dark. This lack of Sun exposure usually mean that it is less hot at night, and more hot when the globe rotates and then they face the sun, and the temperature warms. You seem ignorant to many of these simple facts, when you ask a question like "what is the ideal temperature for human life on Earth".

When I'm on holiday nearer the Equator, I prefer a different ideal temperature, then when vacationing in the north.

Ironman, did you find the line on your historical CO2 and temp graph where Humanity first shows up?

Happy to help draw it for you if you like. :)

I suspect those "climate scientists" are hedge-fund rejects. I doubt they can even survive in the sell-side.

We should stop listening to people with no skin in the game.

Ironman says

Go ahead, lets' see if it's better than your comics!

Peter P says

We should stop listening to people with no skin in the game.

Everyone's skin is in this game.

How many were arrested?

Rew says

Everyone's skin is in this game.

Of course not! What do they have to lose if they end up being wrong?

Don't say reputation and legacy. These things ain't worth nothing.

Ironman says

So, thanks for proving our point, AGAIN. So, you marked that humans entered the picture roughly 2 million years ago, right?

-



-

So what caused the increased heat and CO2 before then??

Ironman says

Dinosaurs riding around in SUV's??

There are non-man made sources of CO2, right?
Would you like to claim that those conditions circled are ideal for human life?

Ironman says

Dinosaurs riding around in SUV's??

Goddamned Flintstone people!

Ironman says

So, you marked that humans entered the picture roughly 2 million years ago, right?

What have the temps and CO2 levels been like for those 2 million years? What is CO2 and temp trending at now? What ARE the scientific desired targets for CO2 in ppm?

(hint: If it was me, call me crazy, I'd try and make the purple bar be flat down at the level it was throughout most of human history ... as THAT is the ideal CO2 level.)

Ironman says

Hater, is that you???

It's 350 ppm. That gets us the "optimistic" line on the XKCD graphic.

Ironman says

Are you done yet promoting that FAKE narrative?

2nd to last refuge of the defeated. Name calling is next.

Ironman says

have been historically much higher without humans even being around

Right. But could those Earth conditions even support human life?

Ironman says

Want to try again?

You are talking about levels of CO2 that hinder respiration. (laughing my ass off) You have no idea the meaning of what you are posting.

Are you arguing that CO2 levels are completely devoid from a correlation in temperature rise because of the historical previous graphic? :) LOL

Ironman says

MASSIVE BRAWL

They're just acting the way they do in the 'hood.