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All About Renting!


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2006 Apr 27, 3:53am   20,900 views  196 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Jealous bitter renters!

Folks, over the last few months we've had the "Jealous Bitter Renters" Thread (written from the P.O.V. of a rabid housing bull) and often had discussions about renting mostly in terms of how it relates to the RE market and bubble. We've had debates about renting as an alternative to buying at inflated prices, using it to as a metric to determine "fair market" housing value, Price:Rent ratios, why renters are so stupid, jealous and bitter compared to perma-bulls, etc., but so far --nothing about the finer points of the experience of renting itself.

So, this is your opportunity to share your renting insights and experiences with your fellow Patrick.net bloggers! About half of us here are homeowners, but you probably have rented at some point, and in any case should have an opinion. Tell us:

  • What qualities do YOU look for in a rental? Do you prefer high-rise apartment/condo living, townhomes, or detached SFRs? Urban/suburban/exurban/artist ghetto?
  • What things would you be willing to pay a premium for? Proximity to work/public transportation, being close to downtown, lots of open green space, square footage/storage/garage, modern amenities, Pergraniteel, pet friendliness, other?
  • HOW do you primarily shop around for rentals? Craigslist/internet listings, rental property management companies, newspapers/recycler, personal networking, other? Do you prefer renting from a private owner/landlord or from property management company? Why? Do you have any negotiating/bargaining tips to share with us?
  • Do you have any especially interesting, nice or ghastly stories to share from your renting past?
  • Discuss, enjoy...
    HARM

    #housing

    « First        Comments 130 - 169 of 196       Last »     Search these comments

    130   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 11:10am  

    Peter P,

    Yup, political risk. Always scares the bejesus out of me. But what can I do? I'm essentially a third party person (true Progressive) trapped in a corrupt corporatist duopoly. Hopefully, things won't go crazy so fast that I have no time to respond. That's why I'm chosing to live my next five years out light and unencumbered.

    Oh, what the hell, I'm flat broke right now (student loans = IRA), I AM the proletariat, what can the angry masses do to me?

    131   StuckInBA   2006 Apr 27, 11:11am  

    Owneroc and Peter P,

    Good points.

    BTW, I think I jumped the gun on contrarian indicator. Hardly anyone is asking people to buy Gold. There is no Time article yet on "Why Gold will shine forever".

    But it's so hard to truly eveluate real price of the Gold. What ratios to look for ? What metric to use ?

    132   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 11:12am  

    Owneroccupier,

    There's just not enough gold to fill in for fiat money. Gold is still psychologically valuable because of its past history, but it just can't work as a carrier of value in any real sense.

    133   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 11:17am  

    But it’s so hard to truly eveluate real price of the Gold. What ratios to look for ? What metric to use ?

    Finding the "real" fundamental price will do you no good because people are emotional beings. One must anticipate their next stupid move.

    134   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 11:18am  

    SFWoman,

    I always felt the brown-nosers were living the unexamined life. While I've admired that unthinking quality in some of my weaker moments, I think I'd go complete stark raving mad if I had to live like that.

    135   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 11:19am  

    BTW, if you do buy gold, you need an exit strategy because gold really has less intrinsic value than corn (you cannot eat it).

    NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE

    136   StuckInBA   2006 Apr 27, 11:19am  

    Did anyone pay attention to what Heli Ben said today ? He gave a signal, that Fed may pause increasing the rates.

    Not to parse what he is really trying to say etc, but how about the a new thread on "Let's assume Fed has paused the hikes. How will that affect economy in general and housing in particular ?"

    137   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 11:21am  

    Peter P,

    There's no doubt in my mind that energy, either fossil or nuclear, will be the ultimate holder of value, followed by IP, access to clean water, good agricultural land, minerals, etc. By that measure, California is not doing too badly (windmills and solar cell farms)...if it'd only fix up its government...

    138   OO   2006 Apr 27, 11:23am  

    To BA,

    check out the oil/gold ratio. Right now either gold is too cheap or oil is too expensive, you can judge for yourself. Google oil/gold ratio and there are plenty of historical charts.

    SFWoman,

    I completely agree with you that strict parent planning is the worse one can do for his kids. It doesn't mean that the parents shouldn't provide excellent education, just that the parents should refrain from planning out the career path for their kids just because the career path seems profitable, today. Everyone is unique, one needs to be in touch with his own talent and happiness.

    139   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 11:32am  

    The ultimate determinant in an unstable world order will be arms...

    Owneroccupier,

    Going completely OT. You know, I've always maintained that Mainland China cannot possibly invade Taiwan forcibly because of all the crazy Mainland dams built. If they ever invade Taiwan, the Taiwan government can force their hands by calling for air strikes. Since the Taiwanese air force is superior that anything the PLA has yet to put together, they really can't "forcibly reunite" China.

    140   LILLL   2006 Apr 27, 11:33am  

    Peter P and OO
    You guys may have a point with gold. I remember when it was at $600 before(I won a contest for an oz of gold and they kept waiting to pay because the price was so high)
    About 3 years ago a friend of mine got divorced. She decided to rent because apparently we were at the top of the housing market. Well, we all know what happened to the market . It grew to extremes we couldn't even imagine. I wonder if that will happen to gold? It's been here before...but not much beyond...maybe it too will break it's own barriers. Hmmmm
    I'll have to seriously consider this one......

    141   OO   2006 Apr 27, 11:41am  

    ryan,

    I am just speaking from a general conception point of view. Investors needn't be convinced, they are already in and they usually have the knowledge.

    Just from a visual point of view, something that people attach value to must stand out from the crowd. That is just how our mind works. Btw, SLV hits the market tomorrow if you are interested in silver.

    142   OO   2006 Apr 27, 11:42am  

    astrid,

    not quite getting your point. I thought China couldn't invade Taiwan because of the American military power in the Pacific (or the American consumer market that is open for trade). Can you elaborate?

    143   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 11:48am  

    Owneroccupier,

    I think at least with the American military presence, there's still bargaining room and the chance of the Chinese pulling a fait accompli before the Americans have a chance to respond. (think Poland 1939) With Taiwan holding essentially the nuclear option over most of China's most productive cities (almost all of them are located next to a major dammed river), I think the threat is much more immediate.

    144   OO   2006 Apr 27, 11:50am  

    Ladies can also hoard diamonds, which again is something that has no impact on general price level. But, here is the catch. Diamond under a carat has no hoarding value at all, because man-made colorless diamond with absolutely no difference in qualities can do a carat and below. Diamonds below 3 carats don't appreciate much either, because the rarity effect is not there, somehow the supply of diamonds above 3 carats drops off a sharp cliff.

    So now is a perfect time to convince your hubby to buy you a big stone.

    145   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 11:53am  

    No, not the raw diamond holding thing again :) I really think that one is designed for war refugees...

    Well, if you ladies are looking, definately go to the resale market to avoid the retail/de Beer mark up and pay attention to clarity, cut, and color, in addition to carat.

    146   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 12:05pm  

    Fewlesh,

    How long is your lease? You really need to be careful about making undocumented improvements on rental property, that may be the basis for them to jack up your rent when your lease comes up.

    147   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 12:36pm  

    SFWoman,

    I won't wear natural diamonds. Partly because of the expense of anything really nice, and partly because of the way they're extracted and marketed. If I had real money and expertise, I'd be collecting antique jade pieces.

    148   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 12:48pm  

    PS - I just realized how standoffish I sounded in the last post :oops:

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge about vintage diamonds. They're definitely the place to look for classy and interesting pieces.

    149   anonymous   2006 Apr 27, 12:53pm  

    @ everyone
    A note to say I really enjoy reading the Patrick.net threads in the blog space and can't often comment since I have no internet at work, and am busy with chores, etc. at night, so i usually copy-paste the text into an MS word document and read them when I have an idle moment (which has been infrequent this week). Nice to see Astrid again after that Who is Patrick.net thread lured her out again (yeah, I read your stuff the first time you posted frequently) and always enjoy HARM, Randy H, Zephyr (where is he?) Owneroccupier, SFWoman, Linda and the many other frequent posters. Maybe even Surfer X.

    @SF Woman, Astrid: We got my engagement ring from a place that dealt only in vintage and antique jewelry and watches. I went to look at Birks (the equivalent of Tiffany in Canada), Tiffany and a few other big name places. Basically, I got my 1930s to 1950s ring and wedding band between 1/3 and 1/2 of what brand-new-brand-name cost. Less if I were able to bargain. The other nice thing is that most of the big jewelry houses have a paucity of design, whereas the antique jewelery dealers will often have hundreds of different styles, diamond cuts, diamond shapes to pick from. We had much fun choosing from them -- unlike Birks / Tiffany. Three years later I still get lots of compliments for how pretty the set is (best compliment was "that's the most tasteful engagement ring I've ever seen" -- blowback from all the clunky rings with bulky 1 ct+ stones?)

    Keep posting, many lurkers are reading you!

    150   anonymous   2006 Apr 27, 12:57pm  

    @SFWoman, Astrid

    Oh yeah, vintage/antique jewelery also means you give a "second" or "aftermarket" to these objects which, for obvious reasons, DeBeers would prefer to not exist. There are plenty of books about how DeBeers does a great deal of marketing to brainwash us into linking diamonds with love and how it would never do to sell your love-token (or buy it second hand, I guess). Balderdash! Also, the labour (particularly in the case of blood-diamonds) required to get a diamond is so immense, that if I were the person expending that effort, I'd want to know it remained valuable after it was purchased and left the "first market" of mall stores, brand-name jewelery houses, etc.

    151   Randy H   2006 Apr 27, 1:22pm  

    OwnerOccupier,

    I was better off in the end not going to MIT. Ohio State gave me the chance to mature and learn to survive outside of smallville. I would have been dog food at MIT. OSU had top-notch computer science facilities, a good business undergrad program, and eventually landed me in an Ivy grad program, so all's well that ends well.

    I'm hoping my son favors Cal (that's Berkeley for out of towners) or CalTech. Maybe Stanford as a backup.*

    * Not intended as a slight to the elite from "the farm".

    152   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 1:38pm  

    TOLurker,

    Thank you for your kind words and for sharing your experience. Though, LOL, you can't be a lurker if you've delurked :P

    153   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 1:48pm  

    Randy H,

    I hope your son will consider other tech schools (cough Harvey Mudd cough MIT cough cough) and liberal arts schools. I've definitely meet happy alumni from HMC and MIT, so it just depends on the sort of person your son is at 18 (if he's an extremely messy and interested in screwing other people, Claremont McKenna College may be just the ticket; if he likes hemp products, Pitzer College and St. Johns College in Annapolis may be good choices).

    As for Stanford, yawn. What can be so great about a school that let's its students drop classes right til the end of the semester?

    154   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 1:53pm  

    o.t.,

    I've been lucky to avoid courts thus far, so I can't comment based on direct experiement. But as I understand it, it's always worthwhile to dispute a speeding ticket while you're in California.

    155   OO   2006 Apr 27, 2:47pm  

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/04/27/CALBUDGET.TMP

    SACRAMENTO
    California coffers fill with $1.5 billion in extra income tax

    Where do you think the extra income tax come from? Solid income gains? Flipper capital gains? Anyway that I can find data on the breakdown?

    156   surfer-x   2006 Apr 27, 2:51pm  

    As for Stanford, yawn. What can be so great about a school that let’s its students drop classes right til the end of the semester?

    If I'm not mistaken, you can drop after the final at Stanford.

    157   FormerAptBroker   2006 Apr 27, 2:54pm  

    Randy H Says:

    "I was better off in the end not going to MIT. I’m hoping my son favors Cal (that’s Berkeley for out of towners) or CalTech. Maybe Stanford as a backup. (Not intended as a slight to the elite from “the farm”)."

    As a person who has sat on both sides of the field for the big game the one piece of advice I give kids thinking about going to college is to "graduate from the best school near where you plan to spend the rest of your life" (notice I say "graduate from" since no one ever asks if you graduated from Cal "after 2 years at UCR"). If you plan to work and raise your kids in Austin a degree from UT will open a lot more doors than a degree from "that school in CA with all the left wing protestors" or "the Junior University south of San Francisco started by the railroad guy"...

    One of my childhood best friends ended up going to CalTech and I spent a lot of time visiting him down there at the Blacker Hovse (the "v" is not a typo and you can find out more with a Google search). I was only back at MIT once (when I was older and in Grad School), but as a whole CalTech kids seem to have a lot more fun than the kids at MIT. As a clean cut fraternity guy coming down to visit, the CalTech guys did not welcome me with open arms at first but after they found out that I was a closet geek and liked to blow stuff up I became an honorary Blacker Hovse member...

    P.S. More advice to parents don't ever tell your kids where you want them to go to school try and get some younger person that they respect to tell them...

    158   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:00pm  

    With Taiwan holding essentially the nuclear option over most of China’s most productive cities (almost all of them are located next to a major dammed river), I think the threat is much more immediate.

    China would not have built that giant dam if it did not think there is sufficient deterrence. On the other hand, both China and US knows no country can beat the American conventionally. Also, both countries know that any naval conflict in the Taiwan Strait *will* involve tactical nuclear weapons. The only discusion is: does anyone think that victory can be had without escalating to a full scale nuclear war with no winners.

    159   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:01pm  

    But as I understand it, it’s always worthwhile to dispute a speeding ticket while you’re in California.

    It is worthwhile to avoid speeding altogether.

    160   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:03pm  

    He’s got the hutzpa to think he can avoid the next great depression. My hat’s off to him.

    So far, his has my respect.

    Most of my friends think that it is right to avert recessions. They looked surprised when I said that recessions are necessary to liquidate malinvestments and that pain is unavoidable.

    161   FormerAptBroker   2006 Apr 27, 3:09pm  

    astrid Says:

    "As for Stanford, yawn. What can be so great about a school that let’s its students drop classes right til the end of the semester?"

    My favorite Stanford comment comes from a grad school classmate who said (after looking around at all the girls walking by that got 4.4 GPAs in High School and grad school girls with 780 GMAT scores) "my mom was the last good looking girl that went to Stanford"...

    P.S. You can drop classes at other schools just as late as Stanford if you play the game... (I had more than one call from Cal when I was an East Bay property manager when I had to say "yes as a condition of his continued employment (my fraternity brother's name) must now be here at work from 10:00 to 11:00 on Tuesdays and Thursdays)...

    162   Michael Holliday   2006 Apr 27, 3:12pm  

    Surfer-X says:

    "...Moved to Santa Barbara and lived in a haunted house for a month..."

    Bwahahahaaa!

    Oh, my!

    See any ghosts?

    163   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 3:12pm  

    Peter P,

    China built the big ole dam over the Yangtze basically on the rash decision of one man, Li Peng. It was a bad idea for numerous reasons, not the least of which is national security. This gives Taiwan the opportunity to do maximum retailiation if China should choose to invade.

    Now, I don't want Taiwan to be invaded. That just sucks for everybody. But still, the dams can give the Taiwan government a strategic edge if things get hot over the Taiwan Strait.

    The US will be extremely hesitant to go nuclear for any reason, and its forces are stretched awfully thin right now. I think if China can execute a quick invasion of Taiwan, America will be very reluctant to use nuclear weapons to force the Chinese out.

    164   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:13pm  

    Top Ten Signs of a Precious Metals Bubble

    http://news.goldseek.com/EuroCapital/1145987362.php

    165   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 3:15pm  

    Peter P,

    Oh hell, let's just create a derivative on the collective stupidity of the Baby Boomers. How many bubbles can these guys blow thru?

    166   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:22pm  

    But still, the dams can give the Taiwan government a strategic edge if things get hot over the Taiwan Strait.

    Any strategic weakness is only as vulnerable as the nuclear deterrence.

    We have more than 60 years of relative world peace. Let's hope that it continues this way. I still want to retire on a cruise ship sailing around the world with unlimited lobsters.

    167   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:23pm  

    Oh hell, let’s just create a derivative on the collective stupidity of the Baby Boomers. How many bubbles can these guys blow thru?

    Not many more. The next boom is probably in commodities and precious metals.

    NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE.

    168   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:25pm  

    I rather have bubbles than wars.

    169   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:28pm  

    “As for Stanford, yawn. What can be so great about a school that let’s its students drop classes right til the end of the semester?”

    Well, it is very difficult to fail a class. This I can say.

    It is a beautiful school and I enjoyed my time there. But MIT and Havard have access to better lobsters.

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