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All About Renting!


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2006 Apr 27, 3:53am   20,719 views  196 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Jealous bitter renters!

Folks, over the last few months we've had the "Jealous Bitter Renters" Thread (written from the P.O.V. of a rabid housing bull) and often had discussions about renting mostly in terms of how it relates to the RE market and bubble. We've had debates about renting as an alternative to buying at inflated prices, using it to as a metric to determine "fair market" housing value, Price:Rent ratios, why renters are so stupid, jealous and bitter compared to perma-bulls, etc., but so far --nothing about the finer points of the experience of renting itself.

So, this is your opportunity to share your renting insights and experiences with your fellow Patrick.net bloggers! About half of us here are homeowners, but you probably have rented at some point, and in any case should have an opinion. Tell us:

  • What qualities do YOU look for in a rental? Do you prefer high-rise apartment/condo living, townhomes, or detached SFRs? Urban/suburban/exurban/artist ghetto?
  • What things would you be willing to pay a premium for? Proximity to work/public transportation, being close to downtown, lots of open green space, square footage/storage/garage, modern amenities, Pergraniteel, pet friendliness, other?
  • HOW do you primarily shop around for rentals? Craigslist/internet listings, rental property management companies, newspapers/recycler, personal networking, other? Do you prefer renting from a private owner/landlord or from property management company? Why? Do you have any negotiating/bargaining tips to share with us?
  • Do you have any especially interesting, nice or ghastly stories to share from your renting past?
  • Discuss, enjoy...
    HARM

    #housing

    « First        Comments 147 - 186 of 196       Last »     Search these comments

    147   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 12:36pm  

    SFWoman,

    I won't wear natural diamonds. Partly because of the expense of anything really nice, and partly because of the way they're extracted and marketed. If I had real money and expertise, I'd be collecting antique jade pieces.

    148   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 12:48pm  

    PS - I just realized how standoffish I sounded in the last post :oops:

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge about vintage diamonds. They're definitely the place to look for classy and interesting pieces.

    149   anonymous   2006 Apr 27, 12:53pm  

    @ everyone
    A note to say I really enjoy reading the Patrick.net threads in the blog space and can't often comment since I have no internet at work, and am busy with chores, etc. at night, so i usually copy-paste the text into an MS word document and read them when I have an idle moment (which has been infrequent this week). Nice to see Astrid again after that Who is Patrick.net thread lured her out again (yeah, I read your stuff the first time you posted frequently) and always enjoy HARM, Randy H, Zephyr (where is he?) Owneroccupier, SFWoman, Linda and the many other frequent posters. Maybe even Surfer X.

    @SF Woman, Astrid: We got my engagement ring from a place that dealt only in vintage and antique jewelry and watches. I went to look at Birks (the equivalent of Tiffany in Canada), Tiffany and a few other big name places. Basically, I got my 1930s to 1950s ring and wedding band between 1/3 and 1/2 of what brand-new-brand-name cost. Less if I were able to bargain. The other nice thing is that most of the big jewelry houses have a paucity of design, whereas the antique jewelery dealers will often have hundreds of different styles, diamond cuts, diamond shapes to pick from. We had much fun choosing from them -- unlike Birks / Tiffany. Three years later I still get lots of compliments for how pretty the set is (best compliment was "that's the most tasteful engagement ring I've ever seen" -- blowback from all the clunky rings with bulky 1 ct+ stones?)

    Keep posting, many lurkers are reading you!

    150   anonymous   2006 Apr 27, 12:57pm  

    @SFWoman, Astrid

    Oh yeah, vintage/antique jewelery also means you give a "second" or "aftermarket" to these objects which, for obvious reasons, DeBeers would prefer to not exist. There are plenty of books about how DeBeers does a great deal of marketing to brainwash us into linking diamonds with love and how it would never do to sell your love-token (or buy it second hand, I guess). Balderdash! Also, the labour (particularly in the case of blood-diamonds) required to get a diamond is so immense, that if I were the person expending that effort, I'd want to know it remained valuable after it was purchased and left the "first market" of mall stores, brand-name jewelery houses, etc.

    151   Randy H   2006 Apr 27, 1:22pm  

    OwnerOccupier,

    I was better off in the end not going to MIT. Ohio State gave me the chance to mature and learn to survive outside of smallville. I would have been dog food at MIT. OSU had top-notch computer science facilities, a good business undergrad program, and eventually landed me in an Ivy grad program, so all's well that ends well.

    I'm hoping my son favors Cal (that's Berkeley for out of towners) or CalTech. Maybe Stanford as a backup.*

    * Not intended as a slight to the elite from "the farm".

    152   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 1:38pm  

    TOLurker,

    Thank you for your kind words and for sharing your experience. Though, LOL, you can't be a lurker if you've delurked :P

    153   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 1:48pm  

    Randy H,

    I hope your son will consider other tech schools (cough Harvey Mudd cough MIT cough cough) and liberal arts schools. I've definitely meet happy alumni from HMC and MIT, so it just depends on the sort of person your son is at 18 (if he's an extremely messy and interested in screwing other people, Claremont McKenna College may be just the ticket; if he likes hemp products, Pitzer College and St. Johns College in Annapolis may be good choices).

    As for Stanford, yawn. What can be so great about a school that let's its students drop classes right til the end of the semester?

    154   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 1:53pm  

    o.t.,

    I've been lucky to avoid courts thus far, so I can't comment based on direct experiement. But as I understand it, it's always worthwhile to dispute a speeding ticket while you're in California.

    155   OO   2006 Apr 27, 2:47pm  

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/04/27/CALBUDGET.TMP

    SACRAMENTO
    California coffers fill with $1.5 billion in extra income tax

    Where do you think the extra income tax come from? Solid income gains? Flipper capital gains? Anyway that I can find data on the breakdown?

    156   surfer-x   2006 Apr 27, 2:51pm  

    As for Stanford, yawn. What can be so great about a school that let’s its students drop classes right til the end of the semester?

    If I'm not mistaken, you can drop after the final at Stanford.

    157   FormerAptBroker   2006 Apr 27, 2:54pm  

    Randy H Says:

    "I was better off in the end not going to MIT. I’m hoping my son favors Cal (that’s Berkeley for out of towners) or CalTech. Maybe Stanford as a backup. (Not intended as a slight to the elite from “the farm”)."

    As a person who has sat on both sides of the field for the big game the one piece of advice I give kids thinking about going to college is to "graduate from the best school near where you plan to spend the rest of your life" (notice I say "graduate from" since no one ever asks if you graduated from Cal "after 2 years at UCR"). If you plan to work and raise your kids in Austin a degree from UT will open a lot more doors than a degree from "that school in CA with all the left wing protestors" or "the Junior University south of San Francisco started by the railroad guy"...

    One of my childhood best friends ended up going to CalTech and I spent a lot of time visiting him down there at the Blacker Hovse (the "v" is not a typo and you can find out more with a Google search). I was only back at MIT once (when I was older and in Grad School), but as a whole CalTech kids seem to have a lot more fun than the kids at MIT. As a clean cut fraternity guy coming down to visit, the CalTech guys did not welcome me with open arms at first but after they found out that I was a closet geek and liked to blow stuff up I became an honorary Blacker Hovse member...

    P.S. More advice to parents don't ever tell your kids where you want them to go to school try and get some younger person that they respect to tell them...

    158   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:00pm  

    With Taiwan holding essentially the nuclear option over most of China’s most productive cities (almost all of them are located next to a major dammed river), I think the threat is much more immediate.

    China would not have built that giant dam if it did not think there is sufficient deterrence. On the other hand, both China and US knows no country can beat the American conventionally. Also, both countries know that any naval conflict in the Taiwan Strait *will* involve tactical nuclear weapons. The only discusion is: does anyone think that victory can be had without escalating to a full scale nuclear war with no winners.

    159   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:01pm  

    But as I understand it, it’s always worthwhile to dispute a speeding ticket while you’re in California.

    It is worthwhile to avoid speeding altogether.

    160   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:03pm  

    He’s got the hutzpa to think he can avoid the next great depression. My hat’s off to him.

    So far, his has my respect.

    Most of my friends think that it is right to avert recessions. They looked surprised when I said that recessions are necessary to liquidate malinvestments and that pain is unavoidable.

    161   FormerAptBroker   2006 Apr 27, 3:09pm  

    astrid Says:

    "As for Stanford, yawn. What can be so great about a school that let’s its students drop classes right til the end of the semester?"

    My favorite Stanford comment comes from a grad school classmate who said (after looking around at all the girls walking by that got 4.4 GPAs in High School and grad school girls with 780 GMAT scores) "my mom was the last good looking girl that went to Stanford"...

    P.S. You can drop classes at other schools just as late as Stanford if you play the game... (I had more than one call from Cal when I was an East Bay property manager when I had to say "yes as a condition of his continued employment (my fraternity brother's name) must now be here at work from 10:00 to 11:00 on Tuesdays and Thursdays)...

    162   Michael Holliday   2006 Apr 27, 3:12pm  

    Surfer-X says:

    "...Moved to Santa Barbara and lived in a haunted house for a month..."

    Bwahahahaaa!

    Oh, my!

    See any ghosts?

    163   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 3:12pm  

    Peter P,

    China built the big ole dam over the Yangtze basically on the rash decision of one man, Li Peng. It was a bad idea for numerous reasons, not the least of which is national security. This gives Taiwan the opportunity to do maximum retailiation if China should choose to invade.

    Now, I don't want Taiwan to be invaded. That just sucks for everybody. But still, the dams can give the Taiwan government a strategic edge if things get hot over the Taiwan Strait.

    The US will be extremely hesitant to go nuclear for any reason, and its forces are stretched awfully thin right now. I think if China can execute a quick invasion of Taiwan, America will be very reluctant to use nuclear weapons to force the Chinese out.

    164   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:13pm  

    Top Ten Signs of a Precious Metals Bubble

    http://news.goldseek.com/EuroCapital/1145987362.php

    165   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 3:15pm  

    Peter P,

    Oh hell, let's just create a derivative on the collective stupidity of the Baby Boomers. How many bubbles can these guys blow thru?

    166   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:22pm  

    But still, the dams can give the Taiwan government a strategic edge if things get hot over the Taiwan Strait.

    Any strategic weakness is only as vulnerable as the nuclear deterrence.

    We have more than 60 years of relative world peace. Let's hope that it continues this way. I still want to retire on a cruise ship sailing around the world with unlimited lobsters.

    167   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:23pm  

    Oh hell, let’s just create a derivative on the collective stupidity of the Baby Boomers. How many bubbles can these guys blow thru?

    Not many more. The next boom is probably in commodities and precious metals.

    NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE.

    168   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:25pm  

    I rather have bubbles than wars.

    169   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:28pm  

    “As for Stanford, yawn. What can be so great about a school that let’s its students drop classes right til the end of the semester?”

    Well, it is very difficult to fail a class. This I can say.

    It is a beautiful school and I enjoyed my time there. But MIT and Havard have access to better lobsters.

    170   OO   2006 Apr 27, 3:29pm  

    astrid,

    I really don't think there will be a breakout of war between Taiwan and China at least in our lifetime.

    The prime purpose of the Chinese gov is to stay in power, invading Taiwan doesn't help that. It has far more fish to fry internally, like sustaining employment feeding 1.3b mouths, mitigating the gap between the rich and poor and dealing with a potential environmental breakdown. Taiwan on the other hand wants a status quo, it can declare independence, but it really doesn't change the status quo, because right now it is a defacto independent country, the mainland Chinese gov has no authority or control over any of Taiwan's affairs. I don't see any side having the urge to change anything soon.

    With the regards to the dam, you don't need to be a beaver to tell it is just the stupidest thing in the world. To spread the risk of failure and to make control of water flow more flexible, they should build a series of dams along the waterway instead of concentrating all possible points of failure at one single huge project, which in itself may even be massive enough to induce earthquake. I have no idea what the heck the designer is thinking.

    The dam is the contemporary illustration of the French Maginot Line when it comes to flood control.

    171   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 3:38pm  

    Owneroccupier,

    I agree with your assessment re: Taiwan Strait right now. I don't think the current government wants to change the status quo, they bring up Taiwan mainly to burnish their Communism credentials and to seek the moral high ground in their dealing with Taiwan.

    "With the regards to the dam, you don’t need to be a beaver to tell it is just the stupidest thing in the world."

    :P The Chinese are still working through their inferiority/superiority complex. There will be one hell of a hangover when they wake up.

    172   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 3:41pm  

    Peter P,

    Shucks, you should have gone to the CIA for school.

    173   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:44pm  

    Shucks, you should have gone to the CIA for school.

    Culinary Institute of America?

    174   OO   2006 Apr 27, 3:48pm  

    Peter,

    I don't think poor students care about access to lobsters, the Legal Seafood lobsters still cost about $20, which was no chump change for us. Also, locationwise Kendall Square is not the best place on earth, and Harvard Square is kind of run down too.

    You know in Boston, the Red line was the only line on the T that doesn't smell like urine because allegedly Harvard and MIT paid tons of money to make sure that the Red line looks decent enough to visiting parents who paid through their noses for their kids' tuition.

    175   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:51pm  

    Well, I do think that Stanford has very good Feng Shui. You can feel the Chi just by walking around.

    176   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:54pm  

    I don’t think poor students care about access to lobsters, the Legal Seafood lobsters still cost about $20, which was no chump change for us.

    But Legal has very good Chowdah...

    177   OO   2006 Apr 27, 3:56pm  

    All Peter P can think of is 1) food, 2) bathroom, which in itself is very logical, where else would you go after good food? :-)

    178   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 3:58pm  

    where else would you go after good food?

    Or better yet, where else would you go after BAD food?

    179   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 3:59pm  

    Peter P,

    Yes, CIA = Culinary Inst't of America

    You should have gone to Claremont McKenna College and worked for the Athenaeum, they had a genius pastry chef there who was assisted by fairly hot girls.

    180   OO   2006 Apr 27, 6:15pm  

    skibum,

    no, those H-bombs were dropped left and right in Boston too, and I totally concur with your on observation of some of the H people, entirely self-absorbed just because of their association with the school.

    My wife, then girlfriend, and I used to go bar hopping when we went to school in Boston, once a guy from HBS, a school that the undergrad referred to as "on the other side of the Charles River", tried to drop a H-bomb on my wife. After he elaborated how difficult it was to get into HBS, he asked my wife where she went to school. So my wife said, Radcliffe. The poor soul didn't even know what the heck it was, thinking it must be an equivalent of Mount Holyoke or something. So my wife told him, learn about your school before you go around and drop the freaking bomb.

    181   DinOR   2006 Apr 27, 11:46pm  

    *THE NEW GOLD STANDARD*

    DL while in Miami, addressed Florida's issues with some suprising candor. I found his comments like "it's gonna hurt" refreshing. Then he followed up with his usual spin/cheerleading. He described RE as "the new gold standard". I'm not kidding, time permitting please read the link posted here. If this is the new "gold standard" I'd rather move down the chart to lead thank you.

    What's more startling is that all along we've been told that a "crash" in RE is not only unlikely it's virtually impossible b/c houses don't trade like stocks. O.K, then why are we getting this much candor (admitting the obvious) so soon? DL made several stock market analogies so he's the one that brought it up. While he acknowledges a painful correction he's quick to add that it won't be on the same scale as say the NASDAQ. Well gee David, judging by the acceleration (and tone) of your comments this thing is unravelling MORE quickly than the stock market! Remember, after the high in March 2000 we didn't get comments like this until well into the FOLLOWING year 2001 which was when the "margin selling" occured and accelerated. He also puts a date on "the recovery" which will take place in 2007. I guess that'll be when the "new gold standard" takes effect.

    182   DinOR   2006 Apr 27, 11:56pm  

    If you get a chance please read Mike Morgan's comments on Mish's web site. Mike exhibits gentlemenly restrain but you could tell DL's delivery was really trying his patience. Let's see 60,000 condos in Miami at an annual absorption rate of 2,500 per year will take how long to clean up the inventory?

    183   edvard   2006 Apr 27, 11:58pm  

    I thought I'd step in a for a second and mention something rather humerous. I got home yesterday, and sitting on the table is a piece if junk mail from one of the local RE agencies. One of the agents had sent us a card that said:" I just sold a home in your neigborhood, and now I need more inventory. If you know anyone else in your neighborhood that wants to sell, please contact me."
    This is the oddest piece if junk mail I've gotten in a while. I thought about writing him back and telling him that inventory doesn't seem to be that big of a deal in our neighborhood, and his company aught to try and sell what they have now since there is a LOT of it. Maybe he could get some more inventory in Sacremento?

    184   edvard   2006 Apr 27, 11:58pm  

    I thought I'd step in a for a second and mention something rather humerous. I got home yesterday, and sitting on the table is a piece if junk mail from one of the local RE agencies. One of the agents had sent us a card that said:" I just sold a home in your neigborhood, and now I need more inventory. If you know anyone else in your neighborhood that wants to sell, please contact me."
    This is the oddest piece if junk mail I've gotten in a while. I thought about writing him back and telling him that inventory doesn't seem to be that big of a deal in our neighborhood, and his company aught to try and sell what they have now since there is a LOT of it. Maybe he could get some more inventory in Sacremento?

    185   edvard   2006 Apr 27, 11:59pm  

    weird. double post. sorry.

    186   DinOR   2006 Apr 28, 12:02am  

    skibum,

    One day soon I'll have one of my daughters show me how to do exactly that! I wanted something like that for posterity as well. As I assembled it in a fast and loose fashion I began to realize that were getting the "lip service" from DL in rapid fire succession and much more quickly than we did from stock analysts as the equity markets imploded! Generousity from the Fed will not help Mr. Lerah with his "inventory" problem. I thought that this was a pretty telling moment.

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