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All About Renting!


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2006 Apr 27, 3:53am   20,800 views  196 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Jealous bitter renters!

Folks, over the last few months we've had the "Jealous Bitter Renters" Thread (written from the P.O.V. of a rabid housing bull) and often had discussions about renting mostly in terms of how it relates to the RE market and bubble. We've had debates about renting as an alternative to buying at inflated prices, using it to as a metric to determine "fair market" housing value, Price:Rent ratios, why renters are so stupid, jealous and bitter compared to perma-bulls, etc., but so far --nothing about the finer points of the experience of renting itself.

So, this is your opportunity to share your renting insights and experiences with your fellow Patrick.net bloggers! About half of us here are homeowners, but you probably have rented at some point, and in any case should have an opinion. Tell us:

  • What qualities do YOU look for in a rental? Do you prefer high-rise apartment/condo living, townhomes, or detached SFRs? Urban/suburban/exurban/artist ghetto?
  • What things would you be willing to pay a premium for? Proximity to work/public transportation, being close to downtown, lots of open green space, square footage/storage/garage, modern amenities, Pergraniteel, pet friendliness, other?
  • HOW do you primarily shop around for rentals? Craigslist/internet listings, rental property management companies, newspapers/recycler, personal networking, other? Do you prefer renting from a private owner/landlord or from property management company? Why? Do you have any negotiating/bargaining tips to share with us?
  • Do you have any especially interesting, nice or ghastly stories to share from your renting past?
  • Discuss, enjoy...
    HARM

    #housing

    « First        Comments 9 - 48 of 196       Last »     Search these comments

    9   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 5:09am  

    I live in an midrange Silicon Valley complex, and the facilities are basically OK, but some of my immediate neighbors have young children whom they make no attempt to control.

    Which one?

    I prefer DINKs and gay couples as neighbors. I hate living next to college kids. They are the worst.

    10   HARM   2006 Apr 27, 5:10am  

    Should I forgive my parents for not letting me rent?

    Mr Vincent,

    Sadly, when I chose my parents and generation, I chose poorly. If I had been age 18 back in 1978 and had enough money or credit, I would have been *delighted* to buy 4 houses at those prices. I would get down on your knees every day and thank God/Allah/Jeebus/Buddha/Krishna/whomever for blessing you with such wonderful parents and for allowing you to be born into the most fortunate generation in the history of mankind.

    11   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 5:12am  

    When you are ready to buy, only buy a SFR or Townhome. Do not buy a place that has someone living above or below you.

    I do not agree. High-end condos (concrete and steel) are not bad at all. They come with a lot of amenities and they tend to be closer to everything.

    12   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 5:14am  

    Sadly, when I chose my parents and generation, I chose poorly.

    Being born in the right place at the right time is about 80-90% of success.

    13   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 5:18am  

    Being born in the right place at the right time is about 80-90% of success.

    Some may say 100% but I do think that free will does make at least some influence.

    14   DinOR   2006 Apr 27, 5:18am  

    Mr. Vincent,

    Should you forgive your parents? I don't know. In 78 I was 19, joined the service and saw the world. I was able to be a part of history as Marcos was dethroned in the P.I and so many other things it's really just a blur. My wife and I have friends that date back close to 25 years. How much is that worth? I don't know, maybe not all that much. Am I retired? My wife seems to think so. I work independently and intend to do so until they drag me out feet first. I like what I do. Did I make a killing in CA RE? No. Have owned REIT's, yes plenty of them. Unlike you I took ALL of my profit off the table. They have not revisted their former highs since. I don't regret a minute of it (let alone being a landlord). I'm not labeling you a "perma-bull" but I thought the spirit of this thing was more about the joys of renting, not our past exploits.

    15   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 5:24am  

    I’m a pessimist, so I rent to keep my options open. I would buy if it was 5-7x annual rent. Otherwise, I’d rather wait until I think the time and place are perfect. This conservative impulse seriously goes against my impulse to plant every inch of ground under my control with plants (rather expensive, fancy, and rare plants). I sublimate by sending very large presents of plants to friends.

    I don’t mind small, in fact, I like small because the upkeep is cheaper and I’m forced to get rid of junk more promptly. However, I really prefer not to compromise on convenience, safety, finish, noise, responsive management, etc.

    Speaking from my experience from helping my parents with apartment searches… Firstly, don’t rent from an inexperienced landlord, they have unrealistic expectations and are worthless when you go to them with problems. They also don’t appreciate the value of a good renter. Secondly, check sound insulation and potential noise sources, that’s one of the major downsides of apartment/condo living. Thirdly, as George mentioned, be wary when you’re renting from a specuvestor, they can pull the rug from under you at any time. Having dealt with my parents’ terrible specuvestor landlords from last year, I don’t think I want to repeat the experience any time soon.

    16   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 5:24am  

    About boomers:

    From 1939 to 1957, Pluto went thru Leo. It was a time when we went from the collective to the "I". It's been written that "creative" wasn't in the language til the early 50's in regard to humans. Before that, God created, but humans didn't. Leo is a creative sign and Pluto is evolution and transcendence. This period is also called the "Me generation' -but we were tapping into our selfhood and trying to figure out who we are as individuals.

    http://www.acumind.com/Pam/babyboomers.html

    17   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 5:25am  

    Yes, I regretted not qualifying my statement about living above or below someone after I wrote it.

    Not your fault. Most condos are built for cost reasons alone. Wood and vertical neighbors do not mix. :)

    18   edvard   2006 Apr 27, 5:26am  

    Robert,
    Excellent point.The best part of the US is that if things get to pricey, you can move somewhere else and start all over.

    19   DinOR   2006 Apr 27, 5:26am  

    Robert C,

    Yeah, I can go along with that with the exception being that for many younger people the only way to "transcend" through RE would be to join the circle jerk. Sorry ladies.

    20   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 5:27am  

    Your problem is equating property values with the true measures of individual success.

    I was referring to planetary alignment. One can be born into a poor family but is destined to become rich. Or one can be born to a capitalist family but is fated to become a spiritually-successful person.

    21   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 5:29am  

    In the US some of our greatest advantages are mobility and ability. Mobility to relocate and transcend class. Ability to turn liabilities into assets and opportunity.

    You are giving "free" will too much credit. The "ability to turn liabilities into assets and opportunity" may very much be innate.

    22   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 5:33am  

    A part of my problem with my parent's generation is that they always assume they know how the world works and I don't. They assume that because buying the biggest possible house worked out for them, I ought to do it too. They assume because they ended up okay with me as their kid (though they are not what you'd call kid friendly people) that I should go and pop out some ASAP.

    23   DinOR   2006 Apr 27, 5:33am  

    Mr. Vincent,

    Oh no problem. My folks owned several homes outright (over the years) and I have been an owner most of my adult life. I've made plenty of money through the ownership of RE as well. But there I do have reservations. If someone gave me the option to "own my home free and clear" or take that very same equity and either position it in a REIT (where I can at least get some diversification) and pay the rent with the income I believe I would take the latter. We're coming into a period where cash will be king. If it becomes more advantageous to pay it off then I suppose I would, but right now I AM accepting cash (with proper identification of course!)

    24   HARM   2006 Apr 27, 5:39am  

    @Mr Vincent,

    Thanks. Since I've been blogging here, my negative views about Boomers have also been tempered by the many fine insights I've read by our many 40-something regulars.

    25   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 5:43am  

    Thanks. Since I’ve been blogging here, my negative views about Boomers have also been tempered by the many fine insights I’ve read by our many 40-something regulars.

    People born after 1957 do not have Pluto in Leo...

    26   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 5:44am  

    George,

    Are there any opportunities in a down market situation? Maybe work for a RTC?

    27   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:06am  

    I think the next time we buy it will be SFH, or mod condo with concrete floors with radiant heat. All this rain made our place mildew cottage, and we’re stingy with the heat so that didn’t help.

    Townhouses are not bad either. Again, you have to look past the pergraniteel and inspect the true quality of the place.

    28   jeffolie   2006 Apr 27, 6:13am  

    I agree with Jon - its the noise. Loud music is only OK if it is my kind of music. That is selfish, but it makes a huge difference. Street noise rarely bothers me nor car alarms. Yes, it is mostly the unbelievable, blaring, loud music.

    29   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:17am  

    Loud music is only OK if it is my kind of music. That is selfish, but it makes a huge difference. Street noise rarely bothers me nor car alarms. Yes, it is mostly the unbelievable, blaring, loud music.

    Loud music is never okay.

    Street noise is fine if it is mostly white noise or pink noise. Car alarms are unacceptable.

    We need better control over loud music. If someone likes loud music, he should build himself a listening room with 30-inch walls and sound-absorbing material. If he cannot afford that, he should use a freaking headset.

    30   DinOR   2006 Apr 27, 6:18am  

    AmazedinSF,

    "the rental neighbors from hell"

    Well perhaps the fact that you don't really care for the wastelands where McMansions reside will help you find the "inner" neighbor from hell within you.

    I always hated my ex- brother-in-law (who doesn't?) as he was one of these guys where the dogs "took over" the back yard like some kind of full time kennel and parked his fishing boat on the side of the garage when there was plenty of room in the garage. My brother and I thought about dedicating a series of books to him. We thought the title could be something like "Finding your inner putz" or "The putz within you" or "Be all the putz you can be"!

    31   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:23am  

    I have to agree, some teenagers find one song and play it, always.

    I do not get along with young people.

    32   DinOR   2006 Apr 27, 6:24am  

    Peter P,

    I'd read recently about a group that calls themselves something like The American Society for Quiet. I realize that this sounds like the ultimate "grump" club but they make some valid points, like why do we NEED leafblowers? Are leaves really all that bad? I know I brought up loud motorcycles before but it's finally spring in Oregon and I swear these guys wait in the garage with the door up just waiting for the rain to stop so they can go on a "rumble". Great.....

    33   DinOR   2006 Apr 27, 6:28am  

    newsfreak,

    Exactly! I understand the price of progress but what is it that these things are supposed to accomplish? Ohhhh, I get it! Blow that stuff into your neighbors lawn.

    34   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:31am  

    In northern CA, the Coast Guard helicopters are always flying over.

    In San Jose, SJPD helicopters are always looking for bad guys. Why can't those bad guys just stay at home and watch some TV?

    35   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:32am  

    in Paris I lived for some time in a building in which my apartment was the only one with a toilet

    Huh?

    36   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:33am  

    Of course, they all still have day-jobs they need to get to by 6AM. There’s nothing that tears you out of your sweet dreams (of home ownership, of course) like the sound of several 2-cylinder motors ripping at top speed down the street in front of your place.

    God bless the rain.

    37   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:34am  

    HARM, can you correct the misspelling? I meant "God bless the rain."

    38   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:36am  

    Huh?

    Less bike noise in the rain.

    BTW, isn't biking too dangerous? Do bikes even have airbags?

    39   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:40am  

    My daughter lived in a dump where the toilet had a pump that made it sound like you were on a boat. too cheap or too lazy to run the right pipes.

    I like good toilets that can flush down a whole roll of toilet-paper. They should install hotel-grade toilets in homes.

    40   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:42am  

    Any bets on where rates will be at the end of the year? I’m leaning towards 7.25% or higher… 7% is the death nail for the Cali market…

    Sounds about right.

    41   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:54am  

    It’s interesting to me that the mid-life crisis crowd has taken to motorcycles the way it has. Like taking up smoking.

    I don't know. When I have the mid-life crisis, I will probably start eating more.

    Give me hot water, working lights, and a toilet that flushes well!

    Same here.

    42   LILLL   2006 Apr 27, 6:55am  

    Ray W.
    I'm hoping for 8% by end of year.

    And on topic, I am a self-admitted JBR.

    I have owned for most of my adult life, and have been a landlord for half of it. I love to build, add stlye, and rearrange my mcfloorplan.

    I don't like it when my landlady comes over a pisses in the corners.
    (No, not literally, guys!)

    I like to create an oasis in my backyard. The ultimate party area. A place you want to live. I think it would be nice to put a wave machine in the pool in the backyard. Expensive,I know...but ya only live once.

    43   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 6:57am  

    We had low flow toilets in the rooms. They were a disaster…nothing like spending your morning unplugging somebody elses..um…stuff.

    I hate low-flow anything.

    Give me that ultimate water-wasting shower head!

    Environmental protection is overrated. It is very arrogant of some people to think that by changing behavior we can "save" the planet. Earth will be here no matter what we do. Humanity will eventually decline and go out of existence no matter what we do.

    44   edvard   2006 Apr 27, 6:57am  

    Speaking of small machines... We had 14 acres, so we had a zillion little lawn mowers and weed wackers. Let's see... 3 push mowers, 2 riding mowers, and a tractor with a bush hog( large industrial mower) attachment. We just wore the hell out of everything, so I had to learn how to constantly fix the things, hence if bad times come along, at least I can fix those for a living.

    45   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 7:00am  

    The greatest possible environmental disaster is over-population. Control that and we can extend the human empire by a few eons.

    46   LILLL   2006 Apr 27, 7:05am  

    Newsfreak
    You know I make fountains, right?

    47   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 7:05am  

    we are all ultimately renters….

    Very true. Ownership is nothing but a belief.

    God owns everything.

    48   edvard   2006 Apr 27, 7:10am  

    Ray,
    I drove a forklift for 6 months at this lumber yard in TN. They are pretty fun. It was a very large yard, and at the end of the day, we had to take all of the lifts to the back to be refueled. We got some new Yale front end loaders, and they would actually go 17 MPH. Why you would need to go that fast on a forklift is a mystery to me, but we'd race them to the back. The only really bad thing I can recall was a day that one of the lifts had a phenumatic hose burst and spray oil all over the floor near lawn and garden, and this older lady slipped.Other then that, it was pretty fun.

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