patrick.net

oh, I never felt you were attacking ... lets call it "noticibly interested in the oposing view". lol. It's all ok ellie. Seriously. I want your input on any and all issues.

I have no idea as to what the interest / pmi does on your example, but I bet someone on here can answer that question. They just may not bother reading through this particular thread, but you never can tell. The topic can be lost easy on here and this one has had some fog introduced, in my opinion. lol. Since I do that to, here and there, I cant point fingers at Doc Nomo. lol

no worries Doc, it's all good.

elliemae says

I’ve never gone FHA, only conventional. FHA was never an option offered by the bank/loan officer. I don’t know why, or what the difference would have been. Seriously, what would the difference have been on my loan of $127k 4.8% 30y conventional with a $225k appraised value? Current payment is $800 piti.

Bap33 says

I have no idea as to what the interest / pmi does on your example, but I bet someone on here can answer that question.

No PMI, tons o' ltv so I didn't need it. It was a straight refi with the same lender for my 1st mtg; I called to see if I could lower my payment from $850 piti on the 1st & $224 on the 2nd (taken out when I was laid off to cover a year of COBRA); the result was less than $3k in fees and a reduction of $275/month. Which, if my figures are correct, made it a year's worth of payments until I broke even on the fees.

btw, i was told there'd be no math...

but I digress. when it it advantageous to go FHA? when the down is 3.5%, or what?

Well, I should also say that I wish Bapster the best of luck with the house.

I hope you will also grant other people the same benefits that you are receiving. It would only be fair.

Congratulations Bap33, I hope you get your home.

I aint white

What are you then? You sure seem white to me (and yes, I am white, too).

hey, forgot to mention another tid-bit from the lender ... I asked about how many of the loans they do are people buying another home and planning to walk from the one they are in now. Answer: "about 50%". It was said that they are doing it by having family members (that can qualify) buy the home in their (family member's) name but payment and occupancy are done by the folks that walk out of the other home. Lender seemed to figure it was mostly legal. I had heard about it and know one guy personally .. but when the lender said 50% of the loans they have processed where for folks doing this, I went ... "crap, that's where all of these friggin stupid buyers are coming from".

the bright side: all of those walk-aways will drive the prices down more when the bank's get them back.

Bap,

Since you plan on leveraging up and placing the risk with the banks on this one, I imagine this would leave you all set to take advantage of the walk-away trade-up program you mentioned. Let us know when you do, so we can thank you for helping to keep house prices affordable. :)

Why should we thank him in advance? When he gets the home debtor's credit, he should personally thank each & every one of us. I'll be waiting for the card in the mail. Here's my address:

Elliemae
Utah, USA

@dbdude1010,
I don't see how I can leverage up with the values headed south .... give me some idea as to how it would work.

@Ellie,
Does that tax credit come as a write-off over time as taxes are paid or as a lump of cash from some magical pile of tax money? I do not know the specifics. Either way. I'll let you folks know whatever goes down.

Bap33 I think the tax credit might be coming from China since technically the U. S. Government is flat broke and has to borrow over $2 BILLION per day to stay in business. Hopefully your tax credit will be paid in U S Dollars. As soon as you fill out the proper paper work, you'll be getting an $8,000 check from everyone's favorite uncle ... Sam. In answer to your question .... sellers probably would get higher prices for their properties if they open up to FHA buyers because the pool of qualified buyers will be that much greater. The problem still exists with the repairs, which for the typical foreclosed home could be many.

Bap33 says

@dbdude1010,

I don’t see how I can leverage up with the values headed south …. give me some idea as to how it would work.

If you're using debt to make this purchase, you are leveraging up. Simple as that.

@Ray,
Are you sure I get a check for $8,000? Is is tax free or do I pay taxes on it as income next year or when? Thanks.

bu dbdude ... if I were to sell in any short term I would net a loss (probably) or break even (doubtful) and I would not see any profit (gaurenteed).

So, with the debt being secured by the home, and without all of the free loans pumping money into the hands of landscapers named Pedro to come along and by the house from me for 150% more than I paid, I just don't see me leveraging up. As a matter of fact, I may very well be upside down just as soon as the ink is dry. Or, I do not understand your point and you nee to explain it a little bit more. Your turn.

@Bap,

You've stated that you will be using lenders' $ for the most part...not so much of your own. What you're doing is called using leverage, other people's money (OPM), placing the risk with the note holder, etc. Essentially, with a low/no down loan you are only risking the collateral, i.e. the house you are purchasing.

My point is that by leveraging this deal, you are risking little of your own capital. In essence, keeping your powder dry, so that should housing continue its slide down the slippery slope of devaluation, you are free in the future to purchase another one and walk away from this one, if necessary.

Does that clear it up?

Sorry, I'm a geek by trade and tend to live in my head most of the time. Communicating with real people doesn't come naturally :-)

Conservatives who put liberals down and Liberals who put Conservatives down are BOTH being played by the man. As long as the REAL powers that be keep small minded people thinking that the either liberal or conservative is the problem, they have us all right where they want us. When will we all wake up and understand that The Banks and Large Corporations own BOTH political parties. Fight the real power. Quit blaming the pawns in life- the democrats and republicans.

Bap33 says

@Ray,
Are you sure I get a check for $8,000? Is is tax free or do I pay taxes on it as income next year or when? Thanks.
bu dbdude … if I were to sell in any short term I would net a loss (probably) or break even (doubtful) and I would not see any profit (gaurenteed).
So, with the debt being secured by the home, and without all of the free loans pumping money into the hands of landscapers named Pedro to come along and by the house from me for 150% more than I paid, I just don’t see me leveraging up. As a matter of fact, I may very well be upside down just as soon as the ink is dry. Or, I do not understand your point and you nee to explain it a little bit more. Your turn.

You have some serious issues showing respect for people of other ethnicities. Pedro?....break away from the insensitive comments, please. How about someone make a comment about a redneck named clifford who parks his pickup on his lawn or a redneck name Palin.

These are insensitive statements, and have no place in our society.

The Little Guy Lobby says

Conservatives who put liberals down and Liberals who put Conservatives down are BOTH being played by the man. As long as the REAL powers that be keep small minded people thinking that the either liberal or conservative is the problem, they have us all right where they want us. When will we all wake up and understand that The Banks and Large Corporations own BOTH political parties. Fight the real power. Quit blaming the pawns in life- the democrats and republicans.

I am only accusing BAP of being a hypocrit, slandering liberals and our president but then accepting government handouts. His acceptance of the tax credit weakens the conservative movement....he might as well vote for Obama and stop the name calling.

Bap33 says

Ray,
I am fully qualified to go convetional. The LTV is in my favor if it does not come back within the bank’s appraisal, because the price will be reduced or the house does not sell to me but to some stupid sap willing to over-pay.
RE: FHA, I like the idea of keeping more cash in the bank (where it can be used to buy food, medical, ect) vs in a house where it will be locked for at least 10 years, in my opinion. If there were no FHA, I would not use it. If I was nt funding FHA stuff by force, it would not be here. So, I’m just useing something I paid for.
As for using the exact phrase “on crack”, that was all mine. The lender did not use those words, and you will note I did not use quotes. One thing the lender did say is “there are many unscoupulous(sp) agents still in the area, but they are getting fewer each week.” ( I am 99% sure that is a direct quote)

"Put your money where your mouth is and go conventional, you got all the bread. Uh uh, cant do that, old school trophy you done work to hard for. Record hating *****, snob gaming ******"

E40

Nomograph says

Bap33 says

lol … I fail to see how I can avoid being made to cover the exposure of FHA through forced taxation, so why would I not participate too?

So much for the high and mighty “conservative principles” you espouse. You have probably been on Section 8 welfare this whole time too. It sounds like you have no problem with government handouts as long as the go to the ‘right kind’ of people (i.e. white).
FHA = Section 8 = government handouts = forced redistribution of wealth = Bap33

If you havent figured it out, BAP stands for "Black American Princess"...he is a a she, and she is African American.

BAP is a black woman Nomo....all the conservative talk is simply talk with no action.

The Little Guy Lobby says

Conservatives who put liberals down and Liberals who put Conservatives down are BOTH being played by the man. As long as the REAL powers that be keep small minded people thinking that the either liberal or conservative is the problem, they have us all right where they want us. When will we all wake up and understand that The Banks and Large Corporations own BOTH political parties. Fight the real power. Quit blaming the pawns in life- the democrats and republicans.

Voters who think conservatives and liberals will ever vote differently are called dreamers. I say this not to be sarcastic, but to add perspective to the issue....I am slowly seeing that voters are the most fickle of groups. Especially seeing that Mrs. ultra conservative BAP is willing to accept government handouts, err, I meant money.

4x,
you may need to seek professional help.

Nomo,
I hope you give feed back as this unfolds and ignor the negativity.

dbdude,
I understand what you mean, and I agree. I am trying tohold onto my cash as much as possible because I want to do some improvements and I doubt I can do it with a loan against the house due to no real equity, and I do not want to go into any other type of debt to do the improvements. So, I'm hoping to hold some cash and pay as I go. I am pretty sure that even the improvements will not result in increased worth or home value, but they are things I (wife) want to do before we move in.
The only value adder on tap is floor coverings and a shop. The shop's price is stout, but the floor coverings are not too bad.

BAP....are you a sister?

I get it - this is 20 questions! I always sucked at that game

Brad Paisley's "On line" sure fits about now. lol

Congrats if you get it. $170K seems a sensible price I suppose. I'm astounded looking at the 95388 chart that the average house price is $68K now according to Zillow FWTIW. Of course I'm always surprised when I find houses here in the Central Valley listing for over 1 million, it's still just crazy some places.

Yep ... the $68 average is about right. THe mixture is mostly 50 year old crap rental homes for $30K and 5 year old or newer stucco wrapped POS's for $100K. Houses with incomes average about $25K. The unemployment rate is 20% with 75% or so of the population on some type of assistance. Also, 80% hispanic and 50% non-Amereican hispanic. And last but not least, a national leader in meth production and teen mothers. But, I choose to stay. Call me crazy. lol

For those that feel my connecting the housing mess with hispanics was rude, please understand that RE is local. And in my local the people making the fraud-filled loans that created the expolsion in forclosures are well over 95% hispanic .... if you are willing to go be names of defaulting borrowers as an indiactor of nationality.
I just checked the last three years of legal notices in a scan fashion. Here, you try: http://www.legalnotice.org/pl/mercedsun-star/ShowNotice.aspx

Bap33 says

Yep … the $68 average is about right. THe mixture is mostly 50 year old crap rental homes for $30K and 5 year old or newer stucco wrapped POS’s for $100K. Houses with incomes average about $25K. The unemployment rate is 20% with 75% or so of the population on some type of assistance. Also, 80% hispanic and 50% non-Amereican hispanic. And last but not least, a national leader in meth production and teen mothers. But, I choose to stay. Call me crazy. lol
For those that feel my connecting the housing mess with hispanics was rude, please understand that RE is local. And in my local the people making the fraud-filled loans that created the expolsion in forclosures are well over 95% hispanic …. if you are willing to go be names of defaulting borrowers as an indiactor of nationality.
I just checked the last three years of legal notices in a scan fashion. Here, you try: http://www.legalnotice.org/pl/mercedsun-star/ShowNotice.aspx

I am having a hard time understanding what skin color has to do with why the markets are down?

Tenouncetrout says

Bap33 says

Do you think the offer is too high? I am not in a hurry. Trust me.

If you feel the price is right, then ride it as far as it goes. Just don’t let the bastards stress you out over it. Chances are great that the deal will fall through for reasons beyond your control.
If the deal does fall through, just chalk it up as they saved you money.

I am not a b******* for holding him accountable for standing by conservative principles. If I agreed with the 8K tax credits then I would go buy right now, but I dont so I am holding steadfast to what I believe in. That being said, I do pick and choose which issues I vote conservatively on so I dont think he is making a bad choice in accepting the 8K tax credit. This may be one area where he is willing to accept socialist funds...it sounds like you are too willing to accept the handout.

My point is that the 2 of you were screaming bloody murder when the tax credits were proposed but are not willing to accept the funds during your transactions.

4X .. hop in your time machine, remove the forced wealth transfers that built the system I have to live under, and then there will not be a HUD or an FHA and we will not have an issue here.

I plan to take the SS payment I have coming too. Do you?

I did not get to vote for any of the welfare-for-housing garbage in place. I was never asked my opinion about lowering the loan standards, were you?

Stop being contrite, it gives you bad breath.

The reference to B******S was not about you. It's not always about you. It was refering to the selling bank team. Why would you feel your posts have any effect on my day beyond passing humor? lmao.

Did you read the forclosed people's names? And your question was what? If you see no connection, then you see no connection.

I really thought this thread would go a whole lot different. lol

Bap33 says

@Ray,

Are you sure I get a check for $8,000? Is is tax free or do I pay taxes on it as income next year or when? Thanks.

It's a tax credit. If you buy before the end of the year you can either wait and claim it on your 2009 taxes or amend your 2008 return. It's close enough to the end of the year that it's better to just wait.

If you're using an FHA loan you can have the credit applied towards your down payment or closing costs instead.

If you buy next year, at your income level, you'd probably be able to essentially not pay federal taxes for 2010. Between the interest deduction and the $8000 credit, anyone making under $80k or so won't owe anything.

Yo - Bap:

Was the offer accepted? I got bored with all the racial crap and accusations that you're horrible for complaining about free money, then willing to accept it.

You know, it would make a huge dent if you were to refuse to accept it. No on would think that you're dumb for it, not your accountant, your wife, anyone you discuss it with. Certainly none of us would fault you for taking a stand. Oh, wait, I'm totally full of shit.

I'd take money from Palin's book if she offered, even though I think it's probably ghost-written drivel designed to keep her in the spotlight as she "mulls her options."

ptiemann says

Bap33 says

Are you a realtor?
[..]
But, I may be wrong, so if you don’t mind would you please take some time and explain why the bank cares how the buyer gets their money and expressly show why the REpro is not what is behind the push away from FHA inspected sales. Please. Thanks.

hello Bap,
no, I am not a realtor.
Recent case: The property for sale appraised just fine but the FHA appraiser noticed that the furnace did not work.
I did light the pilot light and now the furnace works.
The buyer has to pay an extra $250 for the appraiser to come out a second time to verify. Then there’s an extra “Rush Appraisal” fee.
You would not have this with conventional financing. And the process is overall slower for FHA loans. Longer escrow = more risk that the buyer loses job/ changes mind etc etc
-Peter

Peter, since you are not a REpro, what was your role in the above situation you described? You are in what field? Thanks.

And, again, each of the FHA steps you cite are in the buyers favor. If a job loss happens, then it don't matter what kind of loan it is, if a buyer can get out they will ... but, if a buyer just dumped 3 years worth of savings they get to be broke and jobless, insted of just jobless.

@Kevin,
THank you very much.

@ellie,
I know huh !! .. lol .. Thanks for sticking it out. The offer situation is like this: THis home is one I put a S/S offer on last Feb (check the records and it's there somewhere). The "bank" countered at an amount more than i would pay and so the home went into forclosure. Well, it has went into forclosure once in Feb 09, again in June 09, and it finally went accross the steps in Oct 09. So, I check the house every day. A few weeks ago I seen a lock box on the door. The same old sign is on the house from the S/S lister. So, I had my agent contact the old S/S agent to see it they got the listing from the bank. The old S/S agent said no, that the sing was just still on site. By the way, the old S/S listing is not off of the MLS yet either, I guess they don't follow rules much. Anyways, with a lock box on site but no door notices that say who has the listing or who to contact about any issues, I have a bit of a hurdle. I figured it best to go get re-pre-qualed and get the offer set up with my agent. I am using an agent because it seems as though not using an agent pisses of the other agents, or whatever, and your offer gets lost in the fog, so I'm trying a new approach. So, each day, twice a day, I check for any notices or "Power Company please contact ...." type of stuff. So far, nothing. The lock box has keys in it, so that means the flake that lied and bought the home now got a few bones for handing over keys - oh well. Every few days I ask my agent to check the "pending" list to see if this one gets sold off the MLS, or by some other function.

I figure I'm just as ready as I can be .... but that does not mean the REpukes can't manipulate the system.

Meanwhile, the local market is starting to get more and more homes in my target criteria.

I will keep you up to date as anything happens. But, as it sits, my offer is loaded and aimed with noplace to fire it.

Thanks Pete.
I agree, non-FHA is a sellers best friend.

Bap33 says

4X .. hop in your time machine, remove the forced wealth transfers that built the system I have to live under, and then there will not be a HUD or an FHA and we will not have an issue here.
I plan to take the SS payment I have coming too. Do you?
I did not get to vote for any of the welfare-for-housing garbage in place. I was never asked my opinion about lowering the loan standards, were you?
Stop being contrite, it gives you bad breath.
The reference to B******S was not about you. It’s not always about you. It was refering to the selling bank team. Why would you feel your posts have any effect on my day beyond passing humor? lmao.
Did you read the forclosed people’s names? And your question was what? If you see no connection, then you see no connection.
I really thought this thread would go a whole lot different. lol

Stop calling yourself a conservative if you dont truly believe in conservative principles.

1. You claim Obama is a crook and that Americans are sheeple for falling for his articulation of the issues but then accept his tax credits.
2. You claim his economic recovery plan is not working but then accept his tax credits
3. You claim that FHA, Fannie and Freddie are broken programs that only enable to bankers to sit back while tax dollars are at play but then you use these programs to finance your purchase

I guarantee when it comes 2012 you will vote for the other guy and your hatred of Obama intellect will be back...even after his programs help your family thrive in this down economy.

Go hang with Joe the Plumber who also benefitted from the tax breaks and turned his back on Obama.

lol ..... I'd say discussions with you are like talking with a brickwall ... but, that would be offensive to brickwalls.

Did you miss me, so you headed over here to stir my poop pot? lol

The political/opinion area is someplace else. Adios.

4X says

Stop calling yourself a conservative if you dont truly believe in conservative principles.

Are there rules & guidelines? Absolutes? Can a person believe in some principles without believing in others? Does the pope shit in the woods?

No, there are not absolutes....but, when people take hard line political stances I think we should call ****it. I guarantee if you look back BAP and his buddies talk heavily about how we need to end these programs yet he/she is willing to take out a loan with these programs? However, I dont take hard line stances on conservative principles, I dont affiliate myself with any one political party and I dont talk ***t about our presidents until they have proven to be incompetent. So far, Obama's procrastination has been frustrating at most but not enough for me to say, Ok, this guy lied about what he was going to do just to get in office.

Personally, I have no issues with FHA, FANNIE, SALLIE, FREDDIE outside of the fact that they take on risky loans and insure the bankers at private institutions. I have explained that in past I have also benefitted from FHA, Sallie Mae loans which have since been paid back in full. Growing up poor I knew my only way out was through college, I took out a Sallie Mae loan to pay for my schooling. By my second year in college I found fulltime employment managing technical analysts at which point I married and bought my first house using a FHA loan. I sold that property for a profit, then bought another using a conventional loan at which point I divorced and stepped away with nothing but my freedom. Without FHA my first property would have taken longer to purchase and I most likely would have bought during the height of the bubble because I was not as knowledgeable. Now that I have the knowledge, I plan to step wisely into homeownership for a 3rd time. I am married for a second time, with 2 children...so it is important to me that their future is not financed away by Congress.

Anyone taking part in the 8K tax credit represent what is wrong with our society....a lack of character, principles and integrity. A group of opportunist looking to get rich through real estate at the cost of our future tax payers....I am sure one day I will be ready to join BAP in accepting the tax credit, however, it wont be until housing reaches the bottom.

Here is what I want:

1. Pull out of Iraq, Afghanistan...setup a DMZ around the countries
2. Rework NAFTA, WTO, & GATT labor agreements to prevent jobs from going overseas without major penalties for imports
3. Reform healthcare to prevent citizens from having to go bankrupt due to major illnesses.
4. Charge all gangmembers as one single unit, if one guy commits a crime the whole unit commits the crime.
5. Strengthen our countries immigration laws
6. Reform of social programs to ensure they run lean environments based on Toyotas lean manufacturing principles.

...and the list goes on. I have always said I am conservative on some issues and progressive on others, but I am not liberal on anything because from my perspective liberals will not take firm stances on any issues.

The parachute may have been pulled, but home prices are still falling...

ok update time:
1) The place had a for sale sign placed on Thursday, but no MLS listing and no know price at the office number, they said he was out for the day and price was not set yet.
2) Then on Friday it was listed for sale for $229K.
3) Friday noon, I went to my lender and asked if I could have the FHA appraiser do an appraisal on the home before I put an offer, they said yep, but you will need to do another one if your offer is accepted. I said fine, and ordered the appraisal by the lady that does the FHA appraisals here (as I was told by the lender)
4) Firday noon I asked my REpro to gain me access so I could make sure the home was still in good shape. Did not happen.
5) Monday, gained access and walked the home, it still looked ok, with some sheetrock craks in the ceiling from water damage, but nothing really bad. Told my REpro I will be making an offer based on the FHA appraisal I am getting done. My REpro was less than happy with my approach, even expressing how I may be trowing away my $300. I explained to her that for a $170K deal, spending $300 aint a biggie. My REpro said she intended to do a BPO on the place to see how it comes in , in her opinion.
6) Tuesday . about 2 mins ago . My REpro called to tell me she had finally spoke with the listing agent and that he told her he already had TWO full-price offers on the table. She then said I should go ahead and cancell my appraisal. I told her, "nah. the appraisal should be done, and I already paid for it, so I will have it." I told her that I did not believe the other agent, and that even if there are two offers for full price, I gaurentee they do not sell for that price. She was not happy with my distrust of the other REwhore, but I really have no care about that.

and so, I shall be getting the results of my appraisal, and I'll get back to you.
One thing that happened that I did not like, the lending office told the lady what my offer was going to be and what the house was listed at. I think it would be better if done as a blind appraisal. I was really suprized when they suggested that they even use LISTING prices to "set comps". How friggin stupid is that?

Bap33 says

One thing that happened that I did not like, the lending office told the lady what my offer was going to be and what the house was listed at. I think it would be better if done as a blind appraisal. I was really suprized when they suggested that they even use LISTING prices to “set comps”. How friggin stupid is that?

This is what happened during the bubble. They'd state the sales price and then the appraiser had to make it so. With blind appraisals these days, that's harder to make happen. However, if your appraiser is good it won't matter.

But it kinda sounds like you're getting screwed on this deal, if the listing realwhore is dictating to your realwhore. I don't know as I'd have an appraisal done for the offer - I'd offer what I felt was reasonable and make the offer contingent upon the appraisal coming in at that amount. But I'm cheap.

The REwhores seem to have gotten a second breath. Did some bailout money go directly to the REwhores?