patrick.net

??? Really? Honestly? Wow, my 1.6 gal toilet flushes beautifully every time. No plunger needed.

We're on our way to a major potable water crisis in the Western United States. Here in California we're in the midst of a terrible drought that doesn't seem to be correcting itself. Soon we'll have to make some tough decisions on water rationing.

We build massive cities in areas that are prone to major droughts. We brought this on ourselves. We've over-populated the deserts and the coasts in the West. Now we face the price but no one is willing to pay it.

There is a tipping point. When the water runs out, people will either die or leave in droves. That's the reality we'll be facing in the next 30 years here in California, Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico.

Tanks alot, Adhom. You bowled us over on this one. Waiting for Mikey to give us the poop, probably after he drops the kids off a the pool. I'm flushed with excitement to get a whiff of his contribution...

The technology for desalinization is well established and in use. I don't understand the hoopla about a water shortage--yes the price of water may go up, but we'll never run out of it. And when the price goes up, people will get serious about conservation.

tatupu70 says

And when the price goes up, people will get serious about conservation.

Desalinization should be funded via Mello Roos. There's so much we could throw on property taxes, though of course this would make retirement a lot harder for most people without some sort of tax assistance or deferral.

wish i was lucky says

we should recycle our shit and use it to power our cars

It'd be cool if we could drop a deuce directly into the tank. Last year somebody announced a hydrogen cell than converted urea . . . we're halfway there!

Before Sewers black death
after sewers no black death any questions?

dunno, after an automobile accident would you rather be covered in poo or flaming gasoline?

1.6 gallon? Isn't that 3.8 gallon or something like that?

People, our government want us to do 3 small pieces instead of one big chunk. LOL.

I have a Toto Drake. It flushes perfectly every time.

I used to hate low-flow toilets, but it seems flushing performance has more to do with the mechanism.

I'm on a well w/ septic. I don't pay to use water, just a little electricity to pump it. First thing I do in every home I've ever bought/owned is cut water usage as low as possible. Toilets are first on the list.

The person who wrote that article is a jackass, and not a plumber. I also think his website pushing a book called "planned chaos" is ironic. 5 gallon toilets are not better, anymore than 10 gallons would be better than 5 gallons. I worked in restaurants for 10 years. People don't need low-flush toilets to make a mess. How about a continous flushing river, so the sound of water would make us have to pee? More than often the problem is installation of a perfectly good toilet in a house with blocked/insufficient venting. The Toto Drake is all the toilet needed for even the most talented fat-ass fiber deficient "sh#t free or die" customer.

Think about it: Conservation saves water coming out of the tap, as well as water hitting the sewer plants. People complain about taxes but don't think about this sh*t.

knewbetter says

The person who wrote that article is a jackass, and not a plumber. I also think his website pushing a book called “planned chaos” is ironic.

The OP tends to go for the fringe sites, which is why I never take him seriously. Truth is, everyone should conserve because we have many uses for our water.

Truth is, everyone should conserve because we have many uses for our water.

But there should be no regulations on conservation.

Simply put the real price on water and end all subsidies. There is no good or bad uses of water so long as it is paid for.

That said, some low-flow toilets flush MUCH better than many high-flow ones.

One more thing, in case of a clog, a high-flow toilet may cause a worse flood.

The Toto Drake is all the toilet needed for even the most talented fat-ass fiber deficient “sh#t free or die” customer.

LOL!!! And that is true!

elliemae says

which is why I never take him seriously.

The best compliment on the thread. Thanks Ellie. Think of me the next time you drop the deuce?

With liberty and plungers for all!

Tenouncetrout says

Before Sewers black death

after sewers no black death any questions?

Indoctrination manual here.

The US should do what's standard practice in Europe: use grey water or to flush. It's downright idiotic to use chlorinated, potable water for waste systems - and for lawn watering for that matter.

Re the toilets: my understanding is a lot of those 'black market toilets' are made in China (as is everything now) and get into the US not necessarily though Canada but direct shipment by falsified water consumption specifications. The Canadian connection is minor.

Nomograph says

Since AH feels .

NOMO, I don't have a problem with "socialized" water. As long as someone in Alabama or Alaska is not forced to fund California's water, or vice versa. Local socialism is often good, national socialism is not.

Since NOMO likes the low flow toilets I am happy for him. I don't feel the need to classify, or label him, other than calling it as I see it. As I see it he is a frustrated individual, doesn't like to hear ideas that challenge his koolade laden world view. Enjoys picking on people, makes him feel like a real man or something. Enjoys the hoots from the other koolade drinkers after he trashes another freedom lover. The nomo is a real humanitarian, probably gives like 5 percent of his money to charity like save the whales, owls and feral cats type thing. Doesn't flush his toilet except on number 2 (also to save the whales).

Enough fun though. If we all behaved like the nomo this is what we get.

AdHominem says

The best compliment on the thread. Thanks Ellie. Think of me the next time you drop the deuce?

Yea - I name them all after you.

It’s downright idiotic to use chlorinated, potable water for waste systems - and for lawn watering for that matter.
California is moving forward with 'greywater reform'.
This past August, the state’s Department of Housing and Community Development rewrote the gray­water code. Not only are permits now cheaper and more accessible, but you don’t even need one to install the simplest system, called single-fixture, which reuses the water from just one shower or washing machine... Considering that outdoor irrigation accounts for about 12 percent of the typical home’s water usage in San Francisco (and 50 to 60 percent statewide), a host of new users could make a real dent in our water problem.

EBGuy says

It’s downright idiotic to use chlorinated, potable water for waste systems - and for lawn watering for that matter.

California is moving forward with ‘greywater reform’.

Hey I didn't know about that, thanks for passing it on EB Guy. That's an excellent change.

Here's the text of the new law. Not exactly friendly to someone who just wants to water their lawn (which, supposedly, you're not supposed to do). WIWL, double plumbing sounds like an added expense and, given some of the critiques I've seen (see this FAQ, particularly "Use of government agencies, trade organizations, engineering firms or salespeople for design of residential grey water systems"), perhaps not worth the mandated effort.

I remember seeing something about Denver penalizing people who caught rainwater, here's a link:
http://www.nomoredirtywater.com/Rain_Catching_Illegal.pdf
hmmmm...

Here's one of my favorite quotes from the Oasis Design web site, which hews to the simple (and appropriate) is better ethos:
Third, toilets can be flushed with grey water by simply bucketing it from the bathtub/shower directly into the toilet bowl (not the tank, where it will fester). An added plus of reusing bathtub water in this way is that due to flush volume always being under direct intelligent control it is always less. Also, in cold climates you get a primitive but highly effective sort of grey water heat recovery as the bath water sits there and cools.
Once again, the Mexican housewife's system soundly outperforms the US engineer's system! If none of these preferred options appeal to you, you're probably better off just forgetting about flushing your toilets with grey water.
My own situation: small backyard (less than 20ft. x 20ft. of lawn for the kids to play on) and the front is landscaped with natives. The water requirements are low for the front, but a weekly regime helps freshen up the natives to delay summer dormancy/browning. My choices, as I see them (all technically illegal?).
Install a three way valve on the second floor tub drain. Divert to hose outside when needed.
Install a three way valve on the first floor washing machine. Divert to hose outside when needed.
Use a sump pump on second floor tub as needed and divert to hose outside. Plausible deniability when The Man comes a calling (no permanent fixtures, but there is that hose hanging from the second floor window).
Shower/tub 5 gallon bucket. Weight training. Will quickly grow tiresome.
Maintain the status quo; inertia is hard to over come.

Again, stop water subsidies and Free Market will manifest the right reality.

I was channel surfing last night and came across this "drop-in" installation of a grey water tank used for filtering, storing and reusing grey water to flush toilets. Its just that easy; now about the ROI... Looks liked they used a BRAC Greywater System which can be found here and goes for around $2,000 (plus installation). Certainly could reduce the burden on a septic system.