patrick.net

tatupu70 says

My lord–you’re that surprised that politicos try to spin a story to support their agenda? Are you kidding me? This is the lead story on th 10 O’Clock news in your world?
Now–can we try to get somewhere?

I take it that your way of "elevating the discussion away from partisan BS" is to simply ignore/refuse to address the question while similtaneously exagerating its personal importance to the person asking it, and downplaying the actual behavior being questioned?

The Democrats are making the insurance companies out to be the central villian in the health care debate. If they in fact are, then present the facts. If they need to "spin a story" by misrepresenting facts, then they deserved to be called upon it. I will take your response above as an indirect, though possibly unintentional acknowledgement of one of the reasons *why* many people may be skeptical of the Democrats' plans: because the core leaders are "spin[ing] a story to support their agenda.

Paralithodes says

I take it that your way of “elevating the discussion away from partisan BS” is to simply ignore/refuse to address the question while similtaneously exagerating its personal importance to the person asking it, and downplaying the actual behavior being questioned?

No--my way was to try to rise above the Democrat/Republican or liberal/conservative nonsense. That's why I ignored your obviously partisan question. We can argue about whether insurance companies make lots of money or lots and lots and lots of money, but what's the point? I don't think I'm downplaying anything--I think I'm playing it about right. Spinning foreign intelligence to show that Iraq has WMDs-now that's a story. Highlighting an insurance companies profit statement without pointing out the fine print? That doesn't make my blood boil.
Paralithodes says

The Democrats are making the insurance companies out to be the central villian in the health care debate. If they in fact are, then present the facts. If they need to “spin a story” by misrepresenting facts, then they deserved to be called upon it. I will take your response above as an indirect, though possibly unintentional acknowledgement of one of the reasons *why* many people may be skeptical of the Democrats’ plans: because the core leaders are “spin[ing] a story to support their agenda.

I don't accept your premise. And don't take my statement as an acknoledgement of any such thing, please. IMO, if people are skeptical of the Democrats' plans, it's because of the misinformation being broadcast by the various groups that are so happy with the status quo. (Now why do you think that might be?)
Finally--are you going to respond to my questions? I've answered yours. If not--you shouldn't post here anymore. You're just a shill.

There were some posts a week ago about "medical vacations" where U.S. citizens go to Costa Rica for low cost, good quality medical procedures and surgeries. It turns out there is socialized health care there. The head honcho, chief medical director of the country was asked why the costs were so much lower in Costa Rica compared to America and his response was two things: "Lower salaries and virtually no medical malpractice lawsuits".

Honest Abe says

There were some posts a week ago about “medical vacations” where U.S. citizens go to Costa Rica for low cost, good quality medical procedures and surgeries. It turns out there is socialized health care there. The head honcho, chief medical director of the country was asked why the costs were so much lower in Costa Rica compared to America and his response was two things: “Lower salaries and virtually no medical malpractice lawsuits”.

Do you have a link to that?

if people are skeptical of the Democrats’ plans, it’s because of the misinformation being broadcast by the various groups that are so happy with the status quo.

Roger that! The misinformation is all from those against the Democrats plans.... Misrepresenting a specific insurance company's profits to make them out to look like they are fleecing the people and further anger people about the insurance companies is not really "misinformation." It was simply not pointing out the "fine print" though that "fine print" completely invalidates the point of using a specific company as a specific example. Therefore, doing such things as this should not give anyone any valid skepticism of the Democrats' claims about the problems and the roots of the problems: You deny my premise and point simply because it is politically expedient for you to do so, and I am the shill?...... LOL!!!!!!!!

1. Do you agree that the US outspends every other country in the world in health care costs/person?

Yes.

2. Do you agree that the US is somewhere in the middle of health care rankings? Based on outcomes?

I can neither agree nor disagree because I have not done enough research. I can only go by general articles and headlines stating as such. But without understanding how these specific rankings were created - how the individual components were measured to ensure reliability across countries, and how the actual weightings were developed, I cannot answer. The former is more technical, the latter can be very subjective and easily manipulated whether intentionally or not. I have read conflicting information regarding these rankings from various sources and of course the political leanings of each source come to different conclusions. But more importantly, I have some background in research methods and statistics and generally do not trust the competence of anyone in the media - on either side - to report on the validity of such rankings. So again, I neither agree nor disagree simply because I have not researched it enough and will not rely on headlines or "talking points." There are likely areas where we excel and areas where we fail in comparison.

3. Do you think that there is some reason why the US couldn’t adopt the best of other countries’ plans?

No. Now the argument is... which components are the best of other countries plans, and how do we get such components to play nicely together without further blowing up the system? As you have already said, you don't believe the current plans really address the fundamental problems.

Paralithodes says

No. Now the argument is… which components are the best of other countries plans, and how do we get such components to play nicely together without further blowing up the system? As you have already said, you don’t believe the current plans really address the fundamental problems.

Yes, I agree. I like the idea that someone else posted here--a commission. Similar to the way we determine which military bases to close. Has to be above politics to allow everyone to pass the buck when the results are announced.

Tatu - I'll try to find the link. It was an out of context post about Rush Limbaugh saying he would "leave the country" if health care passed in America. What he really said was he would leave the country to seek major medical care elsewhere, (Costa Rica), if HC passed in America. I'll do what I can to find it. Abe

Nomograph says

You suddenly became strangely silent on the issue.

Weird, do you even read three posts back in the threads you post in????? You're pretty sloppy, even for someone who seems to have to resort to name calling....

Nomograph says

Not sure what you’re talking about, but Wellpoint’s profits are not relevant.

So then why did the Administration use Wellpoint as a specific example in the first place? Not sure what I'm talking about? Maybe you should read the threads in which you post....