patrick.net

kentm says

Are you a teabagger? I dunno, how do you respond to the following links?
TAX DAY TEA PARTY 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbyFeFhUTmI
Newt Gingrich: Tea Party Turning Into The ‘Militant’ Wing Of GOP
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/22/newt-gingrich-tea-party-t_n_548250.html
http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2009/11/11/authoritarianism-in-america/

The tea party is composed of the arch conservatives to the far right and the so-called rich (100k - 200k) business owners who have fooled themselves into thinking they are running at the same level as Goldman Sachs. For the members to be claiminig that there taxes have increased although the facts show different is a testament to their stupidity and hatred.

The Tea Party is about nothing more than the fear of a black president. Period.

4X says

When is the last time you been to a liberal rally with such racist themes?

These were not one off incidents and cannot be overlooked as if the entire party is not a group of southern rebels who are on a white power movement. Fortunately for us they hide behind the rallys and dont take this behavior to the workplace or do they…..you think anyone of these people would hire a black, Jewish or Mexican?..I doubt they would. We need to ride America of this type of hatred.

Brace your self Jr.

There's no solid proof in not one damn one of those photos that say exactly where they were taken.
I can't tell if they were taken by one Republican telling a Right winger to hold his beer while he took a pose, or if two Liberal revisionist made some nifty signs and out fits and went on a photo shoot.
They are pics taken from the internet.

As far as I know that's you in those pictures.

That's a good point. My guess is that the pictures were taken by aliens trying to pose as angry white Republicans. The ruse was well done--those aliens even misspelled some of the signs in the same way the redneck, racist, tea party activists would have. I need to find me some of those glasses that Roddy Piper wore...

And in this video of the protests in DC on tax day the librul media hired a bunch of actors to play stupid. Did you see this?!?!!?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/new-left-media-at-the-tax-day-tea-party-protests/

When questioned about their concerns the person would just rattle off a bunch of bumper sticker phrases. When the reporter mentioned that Obama has actually cut taxes for 95% of the population some would pause and then say "LIES".

You can't make some of this stuff up.

Do you think they found the most coherent ones to talk to?

You folks make GREAT subjects. You take anything you see as exactly as it's presented with out question.

While OBAMA and this administration LIES to you hourly and you don't question it once.

Tenouncetrout says

4X says

When is the last time you been to a liberal rally with such racist themes?
These were not one off incidents and cannot be overlooked as if the entire party is not a group of southern rebels who are on a white power movement. Fortunately for us they hide behind the rallys and dont take this behavior to the workplace or do they…..you think anyone of these people would hire a black, Jewish or Mexican?..I doubt they would. We need to ride America of this type of hatred.

Brace your self Jr.
There’s no solid proof in not one damn one of those photos that say exactly where they were taken.
I can’t tell if they were taken by one Republican telling a Right winger to hold his beer while he took a pose, or if two Liberal revisionist made some nifty signs and out fits and went on a photo shoot.
They are pics taken from the internet.
As far as I know that’s you in those pictures.

TOT .. excellant post .. and like most excellant posts that do not make the leftisits on PatNet feel warm and fuzzy, it will be ignored. Again, great point.

Question: Since the ILLEGAL immigration law in Az has been challenged by Mexico, are we racist conservos allowed to suggest that America's ILLEGAL immigration issue is also Mexican based?

Tenouncetrout says

Do you think they found the most coherent ones to talk to?

Do you think they had to look very hard to find these guys?

Some of my facebook friends will post things like, "they are taking away our freedoms," re: health care bill, or "insurance companies are the problem." So I take the opportunity to engage in conversation. I ask about their concerns and I ask about ideas for solutions.

You know what? I have yet to hear any concrete solutions. The closest I got was 'insurance companies need to be regulated." No details, ever. Just a lot of terms like 'socialism', 'taking away our rights'.

I'm an RN. I see healthcare in action 36hrs per week then there are my own personal experiences.

If folks think Glenn Beck et al have all the anwers then why can't they repeat them? Why can't Sarah Palin take the time to tell us how to get 'small government'? Where should we make the cuts.

Show me where I can find the answers the folks on the right think they have but aren't 'coherent' enough to elaborate.

So I'm searching Fox archives to find out what Glenn Beck offers for solutions and here is my 1st hit:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589808,00.html

I'm not sure of the references to NBC or MSNBC and I really don't get this whole rant. Anyone care to interpret?

And then I hear Beck compare health care reform to Flight 93 on 9/11, Pearl Harbor, Chamberlain meeting Hitler, and Hindenburg?!?!?

And then I hear the Rush Limbaugh threat, and I paraphrase, "I'll move to Costa Rica if this bill passes" where he will partake in their socialized medicine? Maybe the oxy is easier to get on the black market?

This is painful.

Yes Glen Beck is a super huge Douche only over shadowed by the news Commentary staff of NPR. Then a close third comes Rush.

Just so we're straight, on the hierarchy of Jibber Jab talking heads, of who, and who should not, be taken seriously.

When questioned about their concerns the person would just rattle off a bunch of bumper sticker phrases. When the reporter mentioned that Obama has actually cut taxes for 95% of the population some would pause and then say “LIES”.

Obama hasn't raised marginal taxes yet, but his campaign promise was that he wouldn't raise any taxes on those earning under $250k per year and he has. In fact, he promised a middle class tax CUT, didn't he? He also promised a "pay as we go" economic policy during his campaign. More lies. Shortly after taking office Obama raised cigarette taxes 150%, and the recently passed Obamacare bill raises numerous different taxes on people making under $250k. This short youtube video names them specifically http://ur.lc/irr . So it appears that the Tea Party folks are better informed than their detractors. The youtube video guy and Leigh's criticisms being typical case-in-point examples of this.

More importantly, the current deficit spending is too massive http://ur.lc/fkx to continue without tax increases. Tea Partiers instinctively know these deficits will lead to tax increases whereas their ill-informed detractors keep parrotting talking points about how Obama promised not to raise taxes... as if those promises mean anything given the realities of the deficit spending.

The Tea Party is about nothing more than the fear of a black president. Period.

Tiny, tiny little minds

Did you see this trailer for I.O.U.S.A?

http://www.iousathemovie.com/

Yes, we are screwed. And I think that documentary underestimates costs of war, VA/TriCare costs. It will take an increase in taxes AND massive budget cuts to get where we need to go.

So the tax increases in the middle class in the hc bill, are you speaking of the tanning bed tax?!?

"...and the recently passed Obamacare bill raises numerous different taxes on people making under $250k..."

Which taxes do you speak of?

When you speak of "Commentary on NPR" which shows do you speak of? News Hour with Jim Lehrer? Frontline?

Amazing that the middle class is paying less taxes than ever, yet some of them PERCEIVE that they have been raised? This is just sorting out those who cannot comprehend simple math. I got a bigger refund than ever before this year.

Vicente says

Amazing that the middle class is paying less taxes than ever, yet some of them PERCEIVE that they have been raised? This is just sorting out those who cannot comprehend simple math. I got a bigger refund than ever before this year.

When I had my interest on mortgage and property tax deduction on top of my child credit and child care deduction my federal income tax rate was 2.9% per Turbo Tax! And I ain't poor. Who the heck is paying for these wars, etc...oh, that's right, the federal credit card in action.

And in 2009 47% paid ZERO in Federal income tax!!! oh, but we are being taxed to death!

And this year, no federal tax on inheritance...let's see how that plays out in December!

ZippyDDoodah says

So it appears that the Tea Party folks are better informed than their detractors.

No, not so much. If you have to resort to tanning bed and cigarette taxes, then you don't have much to complain about. What I don't understand is where these Tea Party activists were during the Bush tenure? He inherited a balanced budget and then proceeded to put the country so far in debt that it will be almost impossible to dig out. Why the sudden anger?

Obama has managed to avert a depression and gotten the economy seemingly on the right path in ~ 1 year. He tried to get a commission formed to address the deficit but it was the Republicans that said no. What were they afraid of?

Which taxes do you speak of?

I named them in my post and referred you to others in the video. Can you read? Which "tax cuts" were you referring to, unless you're twisting "one time rebate" for some into something called tax cuts.

You come on here posting as if the Tea Partiers are a bunch of easily led dupes whereas you and others are so enlightened by lecturing them on the 'realities' of tax cuts, yet when it's pointed out to you that the Tea Partiers know very well the situation with regards to their concern over deficit spending and the taxes that will inevitably lead to (not including taxes already raised which were pointed out to you), you agree that the Tea Party has a legitimate gripe in their #1 concern - extreme deficit spending. So if you agree that the Tea Parties have it right on their single most important issue of concern, then on what basis are you claiming that they are wrong and misled as you have written upthread?

What I don’t understand is where these Tea Party activists were during the Bush tenure?

They were screaming over his spending policies. Do you have any evidence we/they weren't? It is simply a lie to assert that these same people were not pissed off over Bush's spending. However, Obama has taken a bad situation and made it 10x WORSE http://ur.lc/fkx , and that's after Obama campaigned promising a "pay as we go" "net spending cut" economic policy. That Obama took such sweeping big spending actions just 3 or 4 months after making those promises makes it clear that Obama never intended to keep those promises. Obama is simply not an honest man and cannot be trusted. His proponents defend and excuse his lies. Are you one of them?

tatupu70 says

tenure

Ah, So that's how. Spell checker never finds that word for me.
Thank the Liberal elite or the rest of us would ever know what in the hell we are talking about.

Well what I don't get, is how is the "Health care bill" supposed to cost so much damn money, if every one is supposed to be on the hook to pay premiums. If this scheme wasn't a huge money maker for the Already greedy insurance system we have, then there wouldn't be insurance companies being the number one driver of medical bills.

Why is so much tax dollars going to this sham?

And I'll tell ya when I start getting 1,200 every month deducted from my paycheck, along with the rest of the taxes I'm already paying. That will definitely be worst tax hit I've ever had.
I'll need a shower every pay day.

"Obama hasn’t raised marginal taxes yet, but his campaign promise was that he wouldn’t raise any taxes on those earning under $250k per year and he has. In fact, he promised a middle class tax CUT, didn’t he? He also promised a “pay as we go” economic policy during his campaign. More lies. Shortly after taking office Obama raised cigarette taxes 150%, and the recently passed Obamacare bill raises numerous different taxes on people making under $250k. This short youtube video names them specifically http://ur.lc/irr . So it appears that the Tea Party folks are better informed than their detractors. The youtube video guy and Leigh’s criticisms being typical case-in-point examples of this.

More importantly, the current deficit spending is too massive http://ur.lc/fkx to continue without tax increases. Tea Partiers instinctively know these deficits will lead to tax increases whereas their ill-informed detractors keep parrotting talking points about how Obama promised not to raise taxes… as if those promises mean anything given the realities of the deficit spending."

ZDD, is there another post you are referring to or where in this post do you elaborate on the tax hikes in the hc bill on those making less than $250K?

"Well what I don’t get, is how is the “Health care bill” supposed to cost so much damn money, if every one is supposed to be on the hook to pay premiums. If this scheme wasn’t a huge money maker for the Already greedy insurance system we have, then there wouldn’t be insurance companies being the number one driver of medical bills. "

Excellent point, TOT! That's why single payer AKA KILL THE HC INSURANCE INDUSTRY is the only solution I see.

ZippyDDoodah says

They were screaming over his spending policies. Do you have any evidence we/they weren’t

lol--were they screaming in a soundproof room? Because I don't remember seeing any tea partiers making any noise about Federal spending until Obama took office.

ZippyDDoodah says

However, Obama has taken a bad situation and made it 10x WORSE

How do you figure. He inherited an economy in free fall, at the brink of implosion and managed to stabilize it, then get it seemingly on the recovery track in 1 year. How exactly is that making things worse?

Nomograph says

ZippyDDoodah says

They were screaming over his spending policies. Do you have any evidence we/they weren’t? It is simply a lie to assert that these same people were not pissed off over Bush’s spending.

If they were upset, the sure kept it too themselves. Furthermore, anyone who questioned Bush’s radical spending was labeled a terrorist-coddling traitor. Them’s was good times, so shoo fly don’t bother me now.

You'd think the librul media would have given the Tea Party all the air and print time they wanted if they were critical of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Ashcroft.

Hmmmm, maybe the media ain't so librul?

Tenouncetrout says

Ah, So that’s how. Spell checker never finds that word for me.
Thank the Liberal elite or the rest of us would ever know what in the hell we are talking about.
Well what I don’t get, is how is the “Health care bill” supposed to cost so much damn money, if every one is supposed to be on the hook to pay premiums. If this scheme wasn’t a huge money maker for the Already greedy insurance system we have, then there wouldn’t be insurance companies being the number one driver of medical bills.
Why is so much tax dollars going to this sham?
And I’ll tell ya when I start getting 1,200 every month deducted from my paycheck, along with the rest of the taxes I’m already paying. That will definitely be worst tax hit I’ve ever had.
I’ll need a shower every pay day.

I'd respond to your posts more often if I could ever tell what the heck you are talking about...

10 oz trout, what solutions do you think of when pondering the health care crisis?

And for those that don't think of it as a crisis think of your premiums and then go get sick and see how much out of pocket you have to pay. I just got word of my ER visit for my toddler's broken clavicle in SF. Luckily we found an in-network hospital. We owe $450.00 and that's WITH insurance.

ZDD, is there another post you are referring to or where in this post do you elaborate on the tax hikes in the hc bill on those making less than $250K?

This is the 3rd time I've pointed it to you: http://ur.lc/irr . Specific tax hikes on those making less than $250k are named starting 39 seconds into the 1:10 minute video. There are excise taxes on medical equipment, taxes on health care premiums, a tax on prescription drugs, a tax on on "cadillac" health insurance plans. But most importantly, the inevitable taxes that this extreme deficit spending is leading towards. You agree that the deficit spending is "screwing" us, but you don't want to be associated with those icky slack-jawed Tea Party supporters because you're too enlightened.

The HC bill will wildly exceed it's projected costs with countless unintended consequences just like Medicaid and Medicare, leading to even larger deficits. If you sum total the profits of the largest 10 health insurance companies in the US, that total is less than 1/2 the annual fraud which takes place under Medicare each year, because the govt. has little incentive to control waste or fraud, wasting needed resources with little accountability. This is what we have to look forward to on a massive scale with the new HC bill

Don't have access to video at this moment. You asked if I could read so I assumed it was in your post using vowels and consonants.

I have never been for this health care bill, I am a single payer fan. My problem with the Tea Party is that they don't know what they are angry about.

I have yet to have a Tea Party interaction when someone has given me details. I can't even find it on their websites. No details! No solutions!

I have never been for this health care bill, I am a single payer fan. My problem with the Tea Party is that they don’t know what they are angry about.

Either you're not listening or you're dishonest. It's clear as day to anyone paying the least amount of attention the the Tea Partiers are angry with the extreme growth in government deficit spending and the increases of govt intrusions into our lives.

And for those that don’t think of it as a crisis think of your premiums and then go get sick and see how much out of pocket you have to pay. I just got word of my ER visit for my toddler’s broken clavicle in SF. Luckily we found an in-network hospital. We owe $450.00 and that’s WITH insurance.

Regarding ER costs, this NY Times article http://ur.lc/irw points out several misconceptions:

Emergency Room Myths
By FREAKONOMICS

The overutilization of emergency rooms is often cited as a dangerous symptom of America’s broken healthcare system. But a new Slate article from Zachary Meisel and Jesse Pines offers a rosier picture of emergency room usage, and dispels several pervasive myths. They write that E.R. care represents less than 3 percent of healthcare spending, only 12 percent of E.R. visits are non-urgent, and the majority of E.R. patients are insured U.S. citizens, not uninsured, illegal immigrants. Meisel and Pines also point out that E.R. visits don’t necessarily cost more than primary care visits: “In fact, the marginal cost of treating less acute patients in the ER is lower than paying off-hours primary care doctors, as ERs are already open 24/7 to handle life-threatening emergencies.”

Devastates the pro-HC case that emergency rooms are a primary culprit of runaway healthcare costs

ZippyDDoodah says

I have never been for this health care bill, I am a single payer fan. My problem with the Tea Party is that they don’t know what they are angry about.

Either you’re not listening or you’re dishonest. It’s clear as day to anyone paying the least amount of attention the the Tea Partiers are angry with the extreme growth in government deficit spending and the increases of govt intrusions into our lives.

And when asked to give specific examples they can't pull one out of their arse.

And when asked to give specific examples they can’t pull one out of their arse.

I'll name two big ones, Tea Party types were strongly opposed to TARP and the pork laden stimulus bill. If you will recall, it was Bush, with Obama's support and teaming up with Nancy Pelosi with Dem majorities who pushed through the TARP bailout, opposed only by House Republicans. Tea Party types didn't like it a bit. Can you honestly say that you've never heard those specific examples coming from the Tea Party? I believe that you're being dishonest.

I don’t understand your point. I wasn’t supposed to take my toddler to the ED?

Any rational person can see what my "point" was. Your drama-queen antics don't help your case

ZippyDDoodah says

And when asked to give specific examples they can’t pull one out of their arse.

I’ll name two big ones, Tea Party types were strongly opposed to TARP and the pork laden stimulus bill. If you will recall, it was Bush, with Obama’s support and teaming up with Nancy Pelosi with Dem majorities who pushed through the TARP bailout, opposed only by House Republicans. Tea Party types didn’t like it a bit. Can you honestly say that you’ve never heard those specific examples coming from the Tea Party? I believe that you’re being dishonest.

I think what has happened is that the TP Movement has been invaded by radicals and uniformed folks egged on by the likes of Glenn Beck. Kind of like how Anarchists take over the spotlight of leftist movements.

ZippyDDoodah says

I don’t understand your point. I wasn’t supposed to take my toddler to the ED?

Any rational person can see what my “point” was. Your drama-queen antics don’t help your case

LOL, of course I'm not rational. I work full time and have a 3.5 year and 14 month old. I've been in a constant brain fog for 14 months!

So I mention my visit to the ED and you post that Freakonomics link. Was my post just an entry point?

Leigh says

ZippyDDoodah says

I don’t understand your point. I wasn’t supposed to take my toddler to the ED?

Any rational person can see what my “point” was. Your drama-queen antics don’t help your case

LOL, of course I’m not rational. I work full time and have a 3.5 year and 14 month old. I’ve been in a constant brain fog for 14 months!
So I mention my visit to the ED and you post that Freakonomics link. Was my post just an entry point?

Your point, zip, gets lost in your snarkiness. Can't see past it.

Pssss, EllieMae, help me out. What was his point?

Just got this wonderful piece in the mail..."Imagine if the Tea Party Was Black" - Tim Wise

http://ephphatha-poetry.blogspot.com/2010/04/imagine-if-tea-party-was-black-tim-wise.html

Leigh says

Pssss, EllieMae, help me out. What was his point?

I think that his point is that you should watch a video he found on youtube. His snarky "can you read?" question didn't pan out so well, considering that you said
Leigh says

Don’t have access to video at this moment.

ZippyDDoodah says

I’ll name two big ones, Tea Party types were strongly opposed to TARP and the pork laden stimulus bill. If you will recall, it was Bush, with Obama’s support and teaming up with Nancy Pelosi with Dem majorities who pushed through the TARP bailout, opposed only by House Republicans. Tea Party types didn’t like it a bit. Can you honestly say that you’ve never heard those specific examples coming from the Tea Party? I believe that you’re being dishonest.

I believe he's saying that he's mad as hell and he's not gonna take it anymore. I'm not sure what "it" is, tho.

Leigh says

10 oz trout, what solutions do you think of when pondering the health care crisis?
And for those that don’t think of it as a crisis think of your premiums and then go get sick and see how much out of pocket you have to pay. I just got word of my ER visit for my toddler’s broken clavicle in SF. Luckily we found an in-network hospital. We owe $450.00 and that’s WITH insurance.

Only $450? Not bad. I had a routine physical that somehow cost me $500. Some doctor grabbed my balls while I coughed and they ran a cholesterol test, basic liver panel, and a CBC.

At least the doctor was super hot. Her part of the cost was $200.

And I have insurance! I believe I got screwed because it got marked as 'preventative medicine.' If I had the same sort of thing done with my specialist who monitors this rare condition I have, it would have cost me far less.

At the time, my girlfriend was a PA and I had her look it over and she didn't seem to think I was being screwed. Of course, I later would find out that she was a crazy bitch so perhaps I should have had a second opinion.

I find it remarkable how people's partisan feelings distract them from realizing how much stupid shit is going on right now. I have sympathies with the tea party movement since I believe the growth of government is problematic in general (adding on overpaid beaurocrats does not an economic recovery make). However, with that, I think Bush II was a remarkable failure, and he grew government (both civilian/military) more than any president. Any Tea Partier that doesn't acknowledge this is in fact an idiot.

Furthermore, while the health care bill doesn't look helpful, the current system is a complete failure cost-wise. We don't have a 'free market' in health care by any means...it's just one screwed up mess that's an unholy alliance between government entitlements, health insurance companies, and the medical industry. Either we need reform that addresses the 'buffet-like' nature of our current health care system, where doctors will prescribe/run tests to inifinity and 90 year-olds will have hip replacements paid for even though they have terminal cancer....or we can just say fuck the whole thing and have socialized medicine and be like France....at least it costs less.

Leigh says

Excellent point, TOT! That’s why single payer AKA KILL THE HC INSURANCE INDUSTRY is the only solution I see.

The world is full of unintended consequences, If you don't see how the current system will get adsorbed into the federal mandates, that guarantees a steady profit, then you are my Jr. and I don't talk adult talk to kids.

Leigh says

10 oz trout, what solutions do you think of when pondering the health care crisis?

I'd take a full blown federal Medial system from education to facilities even at the expense of tangible tax increases, over a corporate/government screw job.

.