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Mortgage Backed Securities


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2006 Oct 9, 10:26am   18,831 views  253 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (61)   💰tip   ignore  

Ultimately, most of the money that financed the bubble is owed to the owners of mortgage-backed securities. What are these securities? Who owns them? Do these investors realize the risk?

It would be very interesting to see graphs of mortgage-backed bonds trading. Does anyone know the ticker symbols for these bonds and a free way to look up the graphs?

Patrick

#housing

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187   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 4:46am  

LiLLL,

That's a hoot. I'm glad you're not in your former neighbors' shoes.

188   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 4:48am  

Property tax should be assessed at the rental equivalent rate. This is consistent with the consumption-based paradigm.

189   Claire   2006 Oct 11, 4:50am  

What about taxing by sq footage?

190   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 4:53am  

"sat vacant all summer, in spite of being a "vacation property"

austingal, two words:

Hootchie girls.

That's all specuvestors need to get these "vacation properties" filled!

$1,300 a month and no "chicks" frolicking in the pool? No wonder the damn thing sat empty all summer!

191   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 4:53am  

What about taxing by sq footage?

So a uber-luxury 2000 sqft 2/2.5 condo in the city with marble baths and wolf range should be charged the same rate as a rundown 2000 sqft 4/1 crap in the Central Valley?

192   requiem   2006 Oct 11, 4:54am  

Peter P,

I'll agree with that! Tying property tax to the market prices is just asking for trouble these days. (I'm biased here, I have a parent who would be significantly affected by this.)

193   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 4:55am  

DinOR,

I think you just found a new occupation for unemployed realtors.

At least the hot ones under 35. I wonder what the overweight, over-perfumed, over 40 realtors plan to do next...

194   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 4:57am  

I’ll agree with that! Tying property tax to the market prices is just asking for trouble these days. (I’m biased here, I have a parent who would be significantly affected by this.)

Yes. Rental prices are more suitable because they are not affected by bubbles.

195   Claire   2006 Oct 11, 4:57am  

Okay sq footage tied to IRS tax returns - yes, there's holes in that one too I'm sure

196   requiem   2006 Oct 11, 4:57am  

HitB:

It's an October Surprise; Rove's getting desperate, and selling nukes to the DPRK would have been too risky.

/puts tinfoil hat back on shelf.

197   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 4:58am  

Okay sq footage tied to IRS tax returns - yes, there’s holes in that one too I’m sure

Huh?

How about the total weight of granite, marble, stones, and stainless steel on the property? :)

198   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 4:59am  

I suppose we could centralize the tax collection system and then make distributions from state and federal coffers, but that's probably not the most efficient way of going about things. That would be a double whammy for current CA homeowners - they no longer get prop 13 rates and their "good school premium" goes down if all the school districts get equal funding.

199   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 5:07am  

astrid,

I just thought LILLL and austingal's observations were so damn funny! Up here in "Drizzleville" much of Bend's "vacation property" rental pool sits empty pretty much year round! The local paper and C/L are just littered w/beach and central OR properties that rent so infrequently they can hardly be of any meaningful impact for the owners.

Every other person my wife works w/(just called to check in, hootchie girls not cool) has a "rental" and they're practically begging you to consider theirs! Pets? O.K! Parties? O.K! Hootchie girls? (As long as your wife's cool w/it, we're cool w/it!)

200   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:07am  

Anyone here comfortable with changing the Sales tax such that you are expected to pay 8.25% of what the highest price anyone has or will have paid for equivalent items?

I am quite comfortable with this "mark-to-market" scheme. It reminds me of 1256 contracts. ;)

201   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 5:11am  

LILLL,

Well I'm bringing my sub-woofer ANYWAY! My buddy runs a "pit-bull farm" out in Moreno Valley and he said he'll bring by a "playmate" so he won't be lonely. The LL did say that pit bulls in the jacuzzi was cool right?

202   skibum   2006 Oct 11, 5:17am  

Doug H,
Thanks for the rant. Well put - we as stupid Americans really lose perspective sometimes. Both examples will be people who chase the market down as prices continue to crap out.

203   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 5:18am  

DinOR,

I know! Those unattractive overweight realtors can be maid service for these empty vacation properties and McFlippin properties.

The only problem is reference - let's say I was a vacation home owner choosing between a fresh from the border Latina and a former realtor, who would I trust more? Who do I expect to have a good work ethic and have the beds made just so? Who won't steal the $100 I left on the kitchen table?

204   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:19am  

In the aviation industry we used to refer to helicopters as “crash debris in search of its future accident site.”

LOL Are they really that dangerous? Are turbine copters safer? How about those with counter-rotating blades?

205   skibum   2006 Oct 11, 5:20am  

LiLLL,

Thanks for the pick-me-up story. What's funny is how the neighbors are mad at YOU for selling - misdirected anger. They should be pissed at the guy who bought it from you and turned around and rented it. Isn't he the guy you mentioned before as needing to move back to the midwest?

206   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:33am  

I know I cannot possibly fly a helicopter ever. I heard it is more like riding a unicycle. Did computer-assisted artificial stability help at all?

207   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 5:34am  

Robert Cote'

Nobody liked a "hot seat" turn-around more than me. Helicopters work reasonably well (until you shut them down). Then they ooze hydraulic fluid, short out the DC Bus and become "hangar queens" in short order.

208   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:37am  

I propose an anti-gravity-based lift system with no moving parts. This should improve reliability. :)

209   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 5:40am  

Peter P,

Most modern rotary wing aircrap (I mean aircraft) have "inner loop/outer loop" inputs to AFCS (Automatic Flight Control Surfaces). The outer loop is for minor corrections to X,Y and Z axis. The inner loop is for MAJOR corrections (as in evasive man. etc.). One of the most difficult things to do w/ a chopper is to maintain a steady hover. Applying the inner/outer concept eliminated a lot of "snakes in the cockpit".

210   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 5:45am  

M. Cote,

Yeah, but planes don't have the maneveurability of helicopters and until they do, we're stuck with helicopters.

I do have one question - why are news helicopters manned? Couldn't they just get a remote control chopper/blimp into the sky and control everything remotely?

211   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:45am  

If airplanes are sushi then helicopters are McDonald’s McFugu with all that implies.

LOL particle-board blowfish?

212   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 5:46am  

Or a hot air balloon, that's slightly less flammable and considerably cheaper.

213   FRIFY   2006 Oct 11, 5:54am  

RC: Prop 13 applies equally to everyone regardless of age or denomination.

For example, say that you're a 25 year old who bought a house in 1970, you have the same tax advantages as a 65 year old.

Oh wait.

214   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 5:54am  

Any time I'm watching a movie or TV show it always amazes me when our hero exits a still whirling chopper walking tall and defiant! Helicopters (particularly rotor blades) are much more sensitive to crosswinds than fixed wing A/C. I was an "LSE" (Landing Signalman "Enlisted") in the Navy and I've seen crosswinds dip rotor blades down to about 4' off the deck. On a guy about 5' 10" that would decapitate you at the arm pits.

Anytime I entered or left the "rotor arc" I kept as low to the ground as possible! Tunnel strikes are also common (although more for rotor blades being "out of sync") than crosswinds but that can ruin your whole day too.

*Not in the NATOPS (Naval Aviation Training and Operational Proceedures) Manual but if you are near or within the rotor arc and the damn thing goes into "ground resonance" (meaning Robert's garage sale is coming apart) run TO not FROM the aircraft! Centrifugal force has a nasty tendency to throw things out, not in! Just in case you ever find yourself in that position.

215   requiem   2006 Oct 11, 5:55am  

The one thing airships had going for them was size; as I recall, the Hindenburg even had a grand piano in one of its salons for a time. (Or is this a case of simply not putting as many people on board? Anyone know the available square footage on the H versus a 747?)

What I'm waiting for is good software control and miniaturized control surfaces. A couple years ago I was sitting in a survey class on MEMS devices, and the lecturer mentioned a drone using only MEMS devices to alter the airflow (as in, no conventional moving control surfaces) and pulling insane turns. (6-12' turning radius at 60-80mph was the example given.)

216   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:01am  

The Solution:

www.moller.com/skycar/

217   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:09am  

Oh and my other favorite Hollywood myth.

Aircraft in flight build up static electricity! Lots. I've read studies where up to 10,000 volts are possible. Any time a helo is being used for "Vert-Rep" (Vertical Replenishment) a GROUNDING CABLE must be used! Just a "J-Hook" with an alligator clip attached snugly to a "pad-eye" on the steel/concrete deck will do. This discharges the static charge to "ground". Once discharged you can go on about your business unless of course you lose contact and need to re-establish ground. Especially true of "HIFR" (Helicopter In Flight Re-fueling) ya think?

True, the amperage is low but it will still definitely wake you up! One time we had a tie-down chain and "someone" had to get it off a hovering H-46. (I guess I was cheaper to Uncle Sam than an H-46!) Not fun, and when your muscles contract it's hard to let go.

218   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 6:12am  

www.moller.com/skycar/

Yep. It is very close to UC Davis. I have heard about it before.

How do we avoid mid-air collision with thousands of them in the air? I think it can replace small GA planes though.

219   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:13am  

During "Night Ops" you'll see a small arc like a little lightening bolt jump from the helo to the deck. Normally you won't notice w/ a fighter jet b/c when the tailhook hits it leaves a trail of sparks and you're running for your life anyway.

220   Randy H   2006 Oct 11, 6:32am  

RC,

Nobody gives a flying fling at a rolling doughnut that I’m posting from a shed in Camarillo. The poor smuck that bough my 10yr futures last night at the closing price probably wants to send me a letter bomb but freakin’ CBOE or NYC had nothing to do with my coup but they’ll still take the credit for being necessary to complete my market transactions.

It will be a very long time yet until these specific types of high-value industries become physically decentralizable. Sure, the technical market mechanisms can and largely already are decentralized. But the nexus of the high finance industry is people and relationships. The paradox has been that as more communications technology has been developed, even more reliance has been placed upon physically proximate relationships.

Even this too may pass with time. But much more time than you are imagining. Perhaps, someday, everyone will jack into their "Second Life 2060" virtual reality, and conduct meaningful, binding relationships and pacts of trust without needing to actually sit at the same table in the same room of the same building.

I'm not going to hold my breath. I still have to fly to Chicago, San Antonio, and probably soon Atlanta every time I need to advance or close a deal in telecom with the corporate guys. Why do they need to see me? Well. They think they do, therefore they do, and therefore I go.

221   requiem   2006 Oct 11, 6:33am  

How do we avoid mid-air collision with thousands of them in the air?

You wait a week, then fly over the wreckage.

RC, SFGuy:
RC's comments on the Moynihan Myth notwithstanding, I don't see why the idea SFGuy has in mind wouldn't work. The only real problem you'd run into is transportation; being able to get raw materials, finished goods, people, what have you, from place to place in a reasonable time. I think it's easily doable if properly planned, and may happen anyway if unplanned, just with a great deal more growing pains.

222   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:40am  

J Galt,

Fun stuff! That's why I always cringe when H'Wood shows some macho dude grabbing a hoisting cable and connecting it an oil derrick leaving the chopper like a fly tied to a hair! Besides, the crew chief has a "guillotine" activated by a 22 cal. round that will sever that cable if he even "thinks" it's "fouled" (tangled up). Yeah, they thought of that. Sheesh.

223   requiem   2006 Oct 11, 6:40am  

I still have to fly to Chicago, San Antonio, and probably soon Atlanta every time I need to advance or close a deal in telecom with the corporate guys. Why do they need to see me? Well. They think they do, therefore they do, and therefore I go.

The generational parts of this will change. The only reason I can see for a face-to-face is when you quietly want to hammer out some details, or initially to get a feel for another person. Teams I've worked with just throw up a telecon and secure IRC server and everything's just peachy.

224   skibum   2006 Oct 11, 6:51am  

@TimeSaver,

Cupertino Address! Cupertino Schools! Lowest priced home in the entire city of Cupertino at the time of listing! 2 Bedrooms, 1 Bathroom, Single Story, Approximately 814 SF, Fireplace in Living Room. This is a "fixer upper" Needs cosmetic work. Probate sale...

Yeah baby! talk about "cosmetic work!" That's like saying Joan Rivers has had "cosmetic work."

225   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:52am  

Robert Cote'

When I was a boot camp I found $600 in an envelope that dated back to 1967 carefully hidden in a NATOPS manual!

(I've read every one ever since!)

I'd heard that some of the "virtual providers" (Island, BRUT, Archipeligo etc.) were having problems? Order flow, etc? I'd also heard BRUT got stung w/ a nasty fine. Oh and these "OATS" infractions have just gotta stop! I ALSO read the NASD Monthly Enforcement Actions the 1st of every month and this has gotten out of hand! (None of you guys are NASD Regulators are you?)

226   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:57am  

TimeSaver,

Oh for the days of the "America's Overpriced RE Blog"!

That may actually have taken the cake! Funny how the recycling containers "dwarf" the freakin house! In fact just calling their sordid little event an "Open House" is nothing short of comical. Good on ya!

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