patrick.net

Maybe this is the reason for those over-asking sales that ConfusedRenter likes to trot out:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2006/10/27/carollloyd.DTL

Speaking of the shill, has anyone with the authority (Patrick? HARM?) decided to ban him from this site yet?

I find it interesting that in both San Francisco and Berkeley, where a majority of people consider themselves progressives, the one thing that seems to scare people more than anything else is change.

I thought I was one of the few social conservatives here. :)

But somehow I embrace changes. Only change is permanent.

If I have the money, I would probably build a Victorian house with a glass dome and a partial copper/titanium facade. :)

SFWoman (or anyone else with knowledge of this),

Speaking of architectural intransigence in SF, I've heard that any low-rise housing structure in the city needs to have some kind of oriel (bay window that doesn't reach the ground) on its facade. Hence, the ridiculous and downright weird uniformity of buildings - from new loft in SOMA (like the ones on Mission near the Metreon, I think??) to the "Richmond Specials", they almost all have some variation of an oriel. What idiot came up with that rule?

No true social conservative would allow that unless cream tea is served inside.

(-) loft
(+) lofts

Perhaps I am a progressive conservative. :)

Is anybody else getting loads of calls from political robot machines today?

Jukubots?

Only in the BA. Protesting a Trader Joe’s in downtown Berkeley because it will “ruin the neighborhood.” It turns out it’s not the TJ’s they care about - it’s the 170+ housing units they plan to build above the TJ’s!

Would you like to live next door to a 5 story monstronsity that cloaks your house in shadows? For some idea of how this project started out see:
http://www.planberkeley.org/1885ua_files/1885ProjHmPage.html

The neighbors have managed to get concessions from the developers which will utlitmately make it a much better project, both for the neighborhood and the city.
Also, Berkeley calculates housing density per region (several blocks) instead of per parcel, so you end up with extremely high dense developments of "student ghetto" housing (as opposed to less dense, but more desirable family housing).

Would you like to live next door to a 5 story monstronsity that cloaks your house in shadows?

That is not the point. I do not like many things but that does not make it right for me to stop everything.

If you do not like what is going on in the neighborhood, you can always leave.

Would you like to live next door to a 5 story monstronsity that cloaks your house in shadows?

Yes, if the alternative is that Kragen's with it's ugly parking lot. Again, where's that University and MLK "charm" people are trying to preserve?

(-) it's
(+) its

RE: student ghetto

You mean the entire city?

Somehow Palo Alto is not a student ghetto. Instead, I call it Bumsville.

Would you like to live next door to a 5 story monstronsity that cloaks your house in shadows?

Meanwhile, these "liberal progressives" would rather drive the extra 2-3 miles each way to go to the Emeryville TJ's instead, despite the extra gas consumption.

For the record, I am the one who wanted to buy a house in the first place, but after doing the math in early 2005 and deciding that buying did not make sense for us, I am now the one who reminds my husband why we are renting rather than buying right now when he starts talking about what/where we could buy. . . .

Meanwhile, these “liberal progressives” would rather drive the extra 2-3 miles each way to go to the Emeryville TJ’s instead, despite the extra gas consumption.

I am under the impression that most vegetarians/vegans are urban white females. So there is a good chance that many of these pro-life (animal lives) activists are actually pro-choice (regarding abortion of human lives).

Which is more hypocritical: anti-growth progressive liberals or pro-choice pro-lifers?

Which is more hypocritical: anti-growth progressive liberals or pro-choice pro-lifers?

Then there's the old-school religious conservative pro-life (anti-abortion) pro-death penalty hypocrites. Or environmentalist SUV drivers (with the "Keep Tahoe Blue" stickers on the back of their Chevy Tahoes...

Wow, touchy crowd.

RE: student ghetto
You mean the entire city?
No, I would say the student ghetto extends about a mile west and south of the campus -- much less so to the north and east. Interesting tidbit, one of the most homogenous areas (read: whitest) in the BA is in Berkeley around Claremont.

That is not the point. I do not like many things but that does not make it right for me to stop everything.
If you do not like what is going on in the neighborhood, you can always leave.
Well, I don't think the people in the neighborhood want to leave as they were there first, and although they did move into a commercial district, they had reason to believe (ie - University Avenue Strategic Plan) that something this large would not be built. Personally, I think the project will go forward, but it will be much better than the original proposal.
Yes, if the alternative is that Kragen’s with it’s ugly parking lot.
Kind sir, Kragen's is a cultural resource (every neighborhood needs an auto parts store, so I will be sad to see it go). That said, the corner does take ugly strip mall to new heights.

Kind sir, Kragen’s is a cultural resource (every neighborhood needs an auto parts store, so I will be sad to see it go).

Excellent point! I'm all for progress, but I do personally hope that Everett and Jones never leaves the San Pablo + University location! mmmm...ribs.

Wow, touchy crowd.

Not touchy, just bored because there's not much discussion going on today's thread. ; )

I think this is one of those things that should have been extensively discussed before marriage. (See also kids, lifetime BMI, chore distribution, proximity to in-laws, retirement funding, openness to "new" experiences, etc.) A pre-nup may not be necessary, but jotting down some notes and agreement in principle (with terms to reopen discussion) seems like sanity to me.

If the house purchase was a horrible (eg you can't afford it) or totally illogical (eg McMansion for 2 people) move and if the other person is absolutely unwilling to compromise - then I'll cut to the chase and start calling divorce lawyers. No point wasting years of my life with an illogical person.

Even in cases where wives are allegedly pushing for houses, the husbands are often at fault because they caved on a critical issue and was not able to argue their point across. Ditto if the gender roles were reversed.

Perhaps pregnant women are different - probably best to discuss the housing issue (and maybe the naming issue) before your formerly lovely significant other insist on putting Spartacus and Bertha in a $1.2M McMansion.

SFWoman Says:

> I find it interesting that in both San Francisco and Berkeley,
> where a majority of people consider themselves progressives,
> the one thing that seems to scare people more than anything
> else is change.

Progressives like change (if things change the way the like them to change) and are open minded (to ideas that they consider good and progressive).

I’m not a “Progressive” or “Conservative” but you have to admire the Conservatives since they come right out and say that they don’t like change and that they are not “open minded”…

FAB,

More often than not, those "conservatives" are not conservative but reactionary (roll back the New Deal) or out and out revolutionary (nation building in Iraq).

astrid,

I think that true Conservatives would change your use of "conservatives" to "neocons masquerading as Conservatives". I wonder what to call the anti-change progressives?

skibum,

My architect friend says he knows of legions of laws should you decide to add a bay to an existing house, but he isn't aware that they are required.

I just went down South Van Ness near about 18th, and there are two new buildings of totally different styles, both with some form of oriel on them. Now I will have to look at new housing around town.

anti-change progressives

Reactionary Revolutionists?

anti-change progressives

Reactionary Revolutionists?

How about just Bay Area "liberals"

Bay Area “liberals”

Perfect.

Bay Area “liberals”
Your forgot the coffee drink:
BA Latte Liberals

@EBGuy,

Of course! We need to hone this a bit, maybe add it to the glossary?

Patrick wrote:

> Some men who write to me complain that they know
> that a house is a horrible deal right now, but their wives
> want a house pronto, no matter what the cost.

It is not just “wives” that want a house it is “potential wives” (since they know that unless a guy already owns a house very few will be able to buy a house in a nice neighborhood and pay off all their credit cards)…

Close to 99% of the women I meet ask questions to find out if I own a home after first meeting me (and will often blow me off to talk to some dorky VC guy who spent 10 years in engineering before going to business school when I tell them I’m a renter)…

BA Latte Liberals

You have BALLs.

FAB,

just curious, how do these highly educated women skillfully find out whether you own a home? Isn't it a bit too vulgar to make one's intention so obvious? How old are they usually?

My experience is, single women care about your pay than your ownership situation, probably I've been out of the dating market for too long.

Sheesh, in the extremely short time when I was dating, I spent first and second and third dates looking for signs of clinical psychosis. And usually, I'll find it by the third date.

Maybe it's just the sort of guys I bump into.

Where do these harpies find their rich dad...ergh, suckers...ergh, eligible bachelors?

SFWoman,

I love your use of the word "vocation".

"Purchasing a house together is probably the #1 goal for a newly wed"

What about those single people who own homes? Wouldn't marriage mean a net addition to houses on the market?

As for #1 goal for newly wed, I can think of many worthier goals to aim for. Not the least, consolidating ones' CDs (of both kinds) and returning unwanted wedding gifts.

SFWoman said:
I think of roots as communities of friends and family that you can rely upon

Oh no, no, no! This is a Confused Realtwhore you're talking about. In his twisted world, you develop "Roots" by paying stupid loads of money for overpriced property, so that the realtwhore can get his commission.

SP

Confused Realtwhore said:
*shrug* that’s just the way it is. if you have a financial stake in your community, you become more involved.

Of course - and if you have a REALLY big financial stake, then you become so involved that you try everything you can to keep people buying houses even when it isn't a good idea to do so. That is probably the first lesson in Realtwhore Skool.

SP

O.K that's about enough. DISCONNECT!