if you Californicators think for a second that these Venture Capitalist billionaires arent paying your faithful politicians (with essentially your money) to leave them alone you need to get off the psych meds!

The Original Bankster says

so let us summarize.

CA bad. AZ good. BA very bad.

tatupu70 says

CA bad. AZ good. BA very bad.

no, you just must have some magic sauce up there in the Bay Area where you can actually claim you are prosperous despite total bankruptcy and ready to ask the rest of the country (and its corrupt leadership) for a handout. Lets see what happens to paradise when you get a dose of reality.

also consider that millions of those welfare recipients aren't even American citizens!

Zlxr says

The Sad and Scary part is that whatever has happened in CA and whatever happens in the future - will most likely spread to other States

well Arizona seems to be doing something about the problem.

Zlxr says

If we cut off Welfare - yes there will be trouble - but some of those people who swarmed CA will start to swarm other States and then we shall see how really big the problem is.

if they swarmed to Arizona they will get shot. Same with Texas and just about every other interior state I can think of in the vicinity of CA except for maybe NM. There simply aren't any resources for them. AZ is not exactly on easy street and we're not about to take in a few million of CA's unwashed masses. It is a matter of fact that we won't be taking in your illegal alien population.

good points about agriculture.

Zlxr says

How are all these armed persons going to tell the difference between a swarming person and a tourist or another poor person?

I don't think you really grasp where our country is currently headed.

The Original Bankster says

I don’t think you really grasp where our country is currently headed.

The problem isn't poverty, it's distribution of wealth & opportunity.

I can agree with you that our present course is straight into the sun. I disagree with you that this course is unavoidable or great sacrifices have to be borne by anyone to change things.

The core problem is that 10% of the population owns ~80% of the wealth -- the top 1% owns ~40%. All social problems fall out from this simple fact.

We are productive enough for everyone's basic human needs to be met -- food, clothing, health, education, local transportation, housing, entertainment. The core problem is that we have become a nation of skimmers. Skimmers on the top banking economic rents in medicine, insurance, banking, financial services. Skimmers on the bottom taking advantage of the welfare state.

We also have skimmers on skimmers, like how Section 8 money ends up in real estate skimmers' pockets every month.

Since 1995, unsustainably low-cost goods from China have papered over the wealth gap. An immense flow of life-improving (albeit low-end) wealth moves through Target, Walmart, etc. every day on the micro level, and at the macro level the PRC is banking this financially-engineered trade surplusfor future uses. I'll be the first to admit that I don't like where this is going and we need to do something about it, but at the same time don't think we can or should win a race to the bottom with the Chinese.

At the end of the day, a "$1200" 3 bedroom apartment need not be rented at that price. Area rents are driven by the money in people's pockets, nothing less and nothing more. I think land values can (and I hope will) serve as a shock absorber of the new economy. Get rid of the price supports and subsidies. Let the values fall to what the market can bear. Liquidate the skimmers.

The way I see it, the bulk of the population has to do interchangeable retail and service-sector jobs. This is all thankless BS, and while the service sector doesn't create hard wealth (trade goods) it does increase everyone's standard of living, through a (rather weak) form of labor specialization. We need more McJobs and less skimmers.

there is absolutely no chance that California will vote in a fiscal conservative. Productive white people are a very small minority. This pattern will continue until you have a crisis.

The Original Bankster says

Productive white people are a very small minority

LOL. True enough. Most white people I come across are involved in real estate, banking, insurance, and other skimmer-type bullshit.

The real producers in this state economy are the minorities busting their ass for low wages in the ag, manufacturing, and service sectors, LOL.

Troy says

Since 1995, unsustainably low-cost goods from China have papered over the wealth gap. An immense flow of life-improving (albeit low-end) wealth moves through Target, Walmart, etc. every day on the micro level, and at the macro level the PRC is banking this financially-engineered trade surplusfor future uses. I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t like where this is going and we need to do something about it, but at the same time don’t think we can or should win a race to the bottom with the Chinese.

Your focus on consumer products is noted. You may also wish to add all the corporate goods, which are also made in China. Im not talking Target/Wall Market stuff here.

Troy says

LOL. True enough. Most white people I come across are involved in real estate, banking, insurance, and other skimmer-type bullshit.

The real producers in this state economy are the minorities busting their ass for low wages in the ag, manufacturing, and service sectors, LOL.

well, if you are a non-minority, you can expect to be taxed, etc. to death.

I never realized that poor white people didn't exist any more. Wow.

whites only comprise 80% of this country. they're hardly significant.

The Original Bankster says

Leigh, people used to do those jobs and support a family. Those jobs had dignity. That was before we decided that ‘Social Media Guru’ was the world most valuable professional. Remember the nice neighborhood butcher? or the local farm stand? can we have those people back please and we can put the Social Media Gurus to work in the coal mines.
Secondly, there is something called technology that eliminates drudgery. Its amazing. You can actually profit without having slaves. Can you believe that?

You obviously never seen where an Oregon strawberry, raspberry etc grows. You'd have strawberry jam if humans didn't do the picking. I grew up de-tassling corn for hybrid in Iowa. Once again, human hands cannot be replaced.

The Original Bankster says

whites only comprise 80% of this country. they’re hardly significant.

Do you read what you post?

The Original Bankster says

Leigh, people used to do those jobs and support a family. Those jobs had dignity. That was before we decided that ‘Social Media Guru’ was the world most valuable professional. Remember the nice neighborhood butcher? or the local farm stand? can we have those people back please and we can put the Social Media Gurus to work in the coal mines.
Secondly, there is something called technology that eliminates drudgery. Its amazing. You can actually profit without having slaves. Can you believe that?

On one hand you state 'bring back the local butcher' and on the other hand you state 'technology eliminates drudgery'. You don't see the contradiction?

I'd love to get rid of big industrialized farms but who's gonna feed all of our fat arses?!?! hahaha

just going by the census.

The Original Bankster says

just going by the census.

You don't consider 80% significant?

obviously you're not good at detecting sarcasm.

I don't know Bankster, you keep stating that the banks are the victims in this fiasco. Do you know how that makes you look?

no I don't state that anywhere. Suggesting that the greedy idiots who took out huge loans should take a hit does not equate to "banks are the victims".

it doesn't matter Leigh, no one gives a shit about the poor McMansion owners, and they don't have the money to buy political clout. They are the biggest idiots of all.

Zlxr says

get the other States to chip in and pay

this seems to be the best solution CA can come up with. If they do somehow get Obama to do that, there will be massive political friction between states and federal government.

Zlxr says

Share some of our poor and illegal population with other States

LOL. I wonder how quickly they will pass laws to prevent that from happening. In AZ they are likely to get shot if they start bumming around here. I hear Hawaii is nice.

Zlxr says

ship them to countries that have jobs

ok now were just getting stupid. No California, I tend to think there are lots of riots and gang violence in your future and the plummeting property values that come with it.

Zlxr says

It’s not like we don’t have alot of reverse discrimination going on either

There is alot, unchecked by anti-discrimination entities, and by some powers to be totally ignored!

The Original Bankster says

ok now were just getting stupid. No California, I tend to think there are lots of riots and gang violence in your future and the plummeting property values that come with it.

Great! Plummeting property values, only means we will have more hirings and keep jobs locally.

Zlxr says

ship them to countries that have jobs, have more lotteries or find something that works. The “What will Work” is the question

Let nature take its course, as was the case they came here to seek their fortune, they move out and seek it elsewhere.

Wong,

My red-state relatives "hate California" too. And what grates on them more than anything, though they'll never admit to it, is that their red state is below the radar of Californians, which does not mean that we think they're below contempt, even though they may think so.

They hate California, but they come here to spend their red state wages for touristic experiences. Say one thing, but vote differently with their discretionary fun money.

thomas.wong1986 says

Great! Plummeting property values, only means we will have more hirings and keep jobs locally.

ya, like riot control officer.

The Original Bankster says

at this point the ‘Venture Capital’ world is nothing but a bunch of rich kids looking to impress other rich kids

Venture Capitalists are salepeople, many today not very bright and unexperienced when it comes to financial issues matters. They cant even read a balance sheet or profit loss statement. At the end VCs hold no money and feed off the cash they get from investors which has all but dried up. I dont see any difference between the likes of John Doer or Bernie Madoff. Thier own greed have inflicted geat financial pain on the rest of our local industries. Pimping companies that could never taken public like MYSQL for $1B to Sun latter having Sun take a massive $500M write down (50%) because they overpaid... Tall it toxic M&A like toxic ARM loans.. but much worst.

or the soon to be biggest goof up investment in history: FACEBOOK.

have your excess go to other states? are you kidding? why not just do away with them in a gas chamber? They are Californians too, they're not just some vermin you can exterminate when they become a financial problem. California is their home. You made your bed, now lie in it.

most of the conservative states will be cutting their welfare programs, so I guess they can wander in if they want but they will soon be picked up by the cops. More than likely they will want to take their anger out on middle class white people.

I don’t believe in guns so I don’t have one, but my neighbor has one and says they’ll stick up for us.

You don't believe in guns.. is that sort of like not believing in the tooth fairy? Yet you believe that your neighbor should do what you're unwilling to do.. that is, take responsibility including reasonable self-defense precautions in order to protect yourself, your family and your neighbors.

CA is in worse shape than most states, but it's not just CA, it's our country that's in bad shape. Is the US really much better than the PIIGS? http://ur.lc/jip

Otherwise - too many people with weapons just makes everything worse.

Does it really? Do you think it would be a bad thing if more law abiding people armed themselves? I fail to see the logic.

ZippyDDoodah says

You don’t believe in guns.. is that sort of like not believing in the tooth fairy?

its a convenient philosophy that keeps the Californian sense of moral superiority intact. If my neighbor shoots him then I'm still good with the peeps down at the yoga studio.

my basic feeling is that most people who have guns don’t know how to use them, can’t shoot straight etc. etc.

Just wondering if you might be willing to substantiate this position with something more than what you "feel" might be true.

seems to me your problem was dealing with someone on drugs and not having your own gun. Must be perspective. On one hand a group wants everyone smoking dope and nobody having guns, on the other hand is me and the other normal Americans.

People killed people long before there were guns or even tools. Many times there have been human vs human battles to the death for very good reasons - like survival from attack, or for a special prize (like the only non-related woman left in the tribe). And sometimes the bloodline from the Vandals and/or Huns shows itself and a person is murdered for sport. That is why murder is wrong, but killing is not.

I have a gun, and I have many weapons. I may still be murdered, but, maybe -- just maybe -- I'll be able to save you from being murdered.

If you can make a fist, and have done so, then you have carried a deadly weapon - the bare naked human hand has taken millions of lives. A weapon is a tool. If you want to use your fist to drive a nail, you can. Or, you can use a hammer. If you want to use a ball-bat to keep the attacking invaders from taking your 10 year old daughter, you can. Or, you can use a shotgun. Sure, they may still rape both of you, but there will be fewer of them. Or, you will have the choice to use the last two shells on you and her to save her from what the invaders have in mind. Bad people make good people make tuff choices.

seems to me your problem was dealing with someone on drugs and not having your own gun. Must be perspective. On one hand a group wants everyone smoking dope and nobody having guns, on the other hand is me and the other normal Americans.

There's also the recreational dope smoker who still needs to defend his family and possessions against criminal invaders using his handgun, rifle or shotgun. I agree 100% with your basic point Bap33

personal accountablity is a most important requirement for a free society to work. With that in place, dope smoking would lose it's wonder lust in a hurry. And if not, it would still be ok, because anyone the smoked dope and did anything wrong would not be able to use the dope smoking as a way to avoid personal accountablity. Non-sober actions resulting in a death would be treated as 1st degree murder with a hanging for the responsible party at noon the next Saturday. Get things leaning that way, and I'll ease up on my anti-drug view.

Bap33 says

seems to me your problem was dealing with someone on drugs and not having your own gun.

haha. I don't think I would even read these forums if Bap wasn't here. :)