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The Galindo Mystery


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2007 Mar 8, 9:14am   21,528 views  221 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Most of the posts here tend to pretty much revolve around posting housing/economic news stats, debunking REIC propaganda, ranting about the NAR/Fed, sharing stories, parodying ignorant FBs, etc. This time, I have a genuine mystery for you to help solve.

A recent San Francisco Chronicle article, "ECONOMIC DEEP FREEZE
January cold spell inflicts hardship on the state's citrus workers"
contained the following excerpt:

Ruben Galindo, 44, Castanon's neighbor and a LoBue worker for 15 years, said, "Whatever little savings that we have, we are just not spending any. We are saving our pennies and nickels just to get us through the year.''

Galindo, with a wife and three kids, also has a mortgage and thinks he can handle two months of unemployment, but no more than that. He bought his house in Lindsay in 1995 and has thought about moving to El Paso, Texas, where housing costs are lower.

"But when prices of homes here go down, I won't be able to sell,'' Galindo said. "And they're already starting to come down.''

Ok, now here are the facts:

  • Galindo bought his house in 1995, so that's 12 years of (presumably continuous) mortgage payments, at a much, much lower cost-basis than today
  • Galindo was a LoBue worker for (again, presumably continuous) 15 years
  • Yet...

  • Galindo has very little savings, in fact no more than two month's worth
  • Galindo cannot afford to sell if/when house prices here come down
  • I really need your help here, because I just can't seem to reconcile the first two statements with the last two. From 1995 to 2007, house prices throughout virtually every part of California have at least tripled. So, even assuming Mr. Galindo took out an interest-only loan back in 1995 (not likely, as they were very rare back then), he must have at least 66.67% equity in his home by now, right? And if he has been more-or-less continuously employed since 1992 (with a very, very low housing cost basis), then how could he have almost zero savings? Even with the wife + 3 kids and assuming his job is of the low-skill/low-pay fruit-picking variety, and that his wife never works, this all seems somewhat hard to understand.

    Has Mr. Galindo cash-out refinanced his house each year since 1995 and used the money to take his family on annual round-the-world luxury cruises? Has his family dined exclusively on Chateaubriand, Maine lobster, pâté de foie gras, Italian black truffles, Kobe beef and Dom Perignon for the last 12 years? Is he single-handedly putting "Kitty", "Amber" and "Bambi" at the local gentleman's club through college?

    Unfortunately, this mystery is beyond my limited amateur-sleuth abilities to solve. Please help me out here.
    Thanks,
    HARM

    #housing

    « First        Comments 111 - 150 of 221       Last »     Search these comments

    111   astrid   2007 Mar 9, 7:55am  

    Anyone here ever taken the ferry up Alaska's Inside Passage? I'm thinking about doing that for my big trip this summer (before all the Glacier melts)

    112   Peter P   2007 Mar 9, 7:57am  

    Anyone here ever taken the ferry up Alaska’s Inside Passage? I’m thinking about doing that for my big trip this summer (before all the Glacier melts)

    I haven't. But I love cruises. Choose one with good food, they may have lobsters!

    113   astrid   2007 Mar 9, 7:58am  

    PS - Anyone here (other than GOOG employees, you know who you are) played around with Google's new custom search? I would love to build a patrick.net housing bubble metasearch...if you guys are willing to help...

    114   astrid   2007 Mar 9, 8:00am  

    Peter P,

    I can't afford a good cruise (I have very little after tax money after student loans, living costs, Roth 401K and I spend most of that on clothes and books and kitchen implements) .

    I was thinking of the government runned ferries that goes between Seattle and Alaska.

    115   Peter P   2007 Mar 9, 8:13am  

    Astrid, they may have good cruise deals from time to time. Last time we took Princess to Vancouver and the food was decent (though not mindblowing) and it cost us less than $100 a person-night. An Alaskan criuse may cost more though.

    http://res.cruisecheap.com/travel/cruise/sailplan.rvlx?CruiseItineraryID=78375

    116   Peter P   2007 Mar 9, 8:14am  

    I heard good things about Crystal but they are very expensive.

    117   Peter P   2007 Mar 9, 8:18am  

    THE BAY AREA IS SPECIAL

    What is not special? ;)

    What is your philosophy on ordering daily specials in restaurants?

    118   StuckInBA   2007 Mar 9, 8:18am  

    Pretty quiet here.

    The print edition of WSJ has a nice article about the yen carry trade. (Couldn't find it online and even then it will be subscription based.)

    So the article says, currency trading is gone retail in a major way. People come back from office, sit in front of the computer and do night-trading. Mostly on margin. Common ratio is 1 to 20, but sometimes it can be 1 to 100. Talks about a trader who deposited like 15K (USD equivalent) and shorted USD 1.5M of British pound.

    The striking fact was the retail trades total the same amount as the hedge fund trades. Astounding. The people are desperate to earn some investment income as interest rates are almost zero.

    The "globalness" of the economy was the most illuminating aspect I learned after I started researching the housing bubble. Not good or bad. I am simply awed.

    119   tsusiat   2007 Mar 9, 8:36am  

    Astrid,

    scenery on the Washington to Alaska ferry is the same as on a cruise - you can get a stateroom and if you dig the back-packer in Europe travel style, you'll probably like it, for a fraction of the cost.

    No pool, though.

    120   astrid   2007 Mar 9, 8:47am  

    tsusiat,

    That sounds very good. I've done a decent amount of *budget* travelling in China including the long hellish boat ride from Shanghai to Port Arthur (The cabins were hot and suffocating and really disgusting, everybody was sea sick, and the company wasn't all that great either.)

    I can barely swim anyways and I would be way too tempted to pig out at a cruise buffet.

    Can I camp on the ferry?

    121   sfvulture   2007 Mar 9, 8:51am  

    D Says:

    March 9th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
    Hello PEOPLE THE BAY AREA IS SPECIAL JUST READ THE SJ MERCURY to know better …Propaganda perhaps
    http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5387915

    Not only is the Bay Area special...."experts advise" on what to do. I feel better already.

    Q What would we do without those handy-dandy experts?

    A Basic economics and common sense.

    122   SFWoman   2007 Mar 9, 8:57am  

    I heard today that the market was flat because people are waiting to see who has loaned money to the people who are now bailing out of the subprime loan industry. Apparently there was a lot of money lent to those folk from unexpected places.

    GC,
    San Francisco has several good museums. The Legion of Honor has good European art, Monets, etc. The De Young is in a really amazing new Herzog and DeMeuron building and has some very interesting new collections, including an amazing Papua New Guinea collection. The Asian Museum and the Museum of Modern Art are also quite good.

    We will soon have an absolutely astounding natural history museum. The new California Academy of Sciences will open spring 2008 in an amazing Renzo Piano building.

    The British Museum is wonderful. It is one of those amazing, enormous museums with something for everyone. They have enclosed the courtyard and opened the reading room up to be part of the museum (it was private to scholars when I was in grad school). It is worth a trip to see.

    If you don't like the Met or Louvre type museums the British might be overwhelming for you, though.

    124   StuckInBA   2007 Mar 9, 9:35am  

    I am still not buying the argument that has often been made here that BA housing prices are strong and will remain strong. Statistics never tells the complete story.

    I am not the only one. Here is a supporting view.

    Here is Realty Times
    http://realtytimes.com/rtcpages/20070309_lowervalues.htm

    Calhoun says the month-to-month price jump likely doesn't signal the flat and falling prices trend is changing.

    "You have to be careful. The data is monthly and when you look at it on a weekly basis, that $50,000 occurred all in the last three days of February when a lot of high-end home values closed. There was a disproportionate increase in high-end closings," said Calhoun.

    Indeed, a substantial number of individual cities and smaller communities reveal January-to-February 2007 or year-to-year price declines, or both.

    "There's a huge geographical diversity in how fast properties are selling. The expensive geographic areas are making up a large percentage of sales and they are selling with multiple offers. Other areas are having price depreciations. It shows you the market is not in equilibrium," Calhoun added.

    125   HARM   2007 Mar 9, 9:40am  

    It is physically impossible for Bay Aryan house prices to go down. Just look at the typical BA first-time buyer:

    126   StuckInBA   2007 Mar 9, 9:49am  

    Countrywide Financial ends no down-payment lending

    I can see some anal-ist pulling this out ...

    "We are encouraged by the steps taken by CFC to reduce risks in the face of rising uncertainties. Our model indicates that this move will lend a good support to the bottom line on a going forward basis. We reiterate our buy rating. CFC continues to be our top pick in the mortgage industry."

    (Then turns around and whispers ... "Mr. Mozilo, you can now proceed to place your sell order with us.")

    127   EBGuy   2007 Mar 9, 10:08am  

    EBguy, sorry ’bout that. I was referring to the irrationally exuberant graph…
    A copy of which I carry around in my wallet...

    128   Zephyr   2007 Mar 9, 12:48pm  

    Very interesting.

    Debt is like using drugs – useful and constructive if used properly. But destructive if abused. Addictive and pleasurable while using - and painful or deadly in withdrawal or overdose.

    129   Brand165   2007 Mar 9, 12:49pm  

    ROFLMAO!!! The current banner ad is:

    Mortgages at Countrywide
    Fast Home Refi, Good Credit or Not.
    Countrywide 4 out of 5 approved!

    What poetic irony! The keywords in this thread have summoned the very sleazy demon we've been bashing for days! And here it is, touting its incredibly low lending standards for all to see...

    130   sfbubblebuyer   2007 Mar 9, 1:16pm  

    Astrid,

    I took a cruise to Alaska on the inside passage... in fact, I asked my wife to marry me on that cruise. Maybe that biases me in favor of it, but I highly recommend it. Did I mention bacon at every meal plus all you can eat lobster night? ZING!

    131   DaBoss   2007 Mar 9, 4:08pm  

    Miami-based Related, the nation's largest condo developer, has trotted out a rebranded "affordable housing division," to build condos for buyers priced out of the market.

    The firm has presold 497 of 500 loft condos in a planned downtown Miami high-rise. They're priced from $159,000, about half the median price of existing condos. That's a fraction of the price of many new condos, which often now go unsold.

    Related expects to make a return of around 15%. That's about half what its luxury units typically fetch, but the company's not complaining.

    "You make less money, but the demand for this type of housing is so great that the volume you can do justifies the concession on the returns," said Oscar Rodriguez, senior vice president of Related's affordable housing division.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/070301/realestate.html?.v=1&.pf=real-estate

    132   losstotheworld   2007 Mar 9, 4:47pm  

    Unfortunately she died of breast cancer. She was a hoot.

    Sad. We need more funding in breast cancer research

    dear peter,
    check this website out
    www.komensacramento.org.

    They are doing a fund raising for breast cancer.

    133   Bruce   2007 Mar 9, 8:24pm  

    OT, but perhaps interesting to credit market watchers...

    On Friday China's Finance Minister Jin Renqing announced the formation of an agency similar to Singapore's Temasek Holdings to invest his country's currency reserves. Last year Renqing indicated his ministry would seek to diversify its holdings which have to date been concentrated in ultra-conservative assets.

    Our print and broadcast media brushed off Renqing's 2006 comments as a move to preempt protectionist sentiment here but, while they may have been useful in that regard, yesterday's statement makes clear China's intention to take on the role of global investor.

    China is a major purchaser of US Treasury bonds and other government securities both here and abroad, and its investments have tended to hold intrerest rates down in recent years. The country's reserves comprise some $1 trillion, and are rising at an estimated $20 billion each month.

    It will be interesting to see China participate in the ownership of foreign holdings in addition to its long-held policy of extending credit to its export markets.

    134   thenuttyneutron   2007 Mar 9, 8:28pm  

    While regulation is bad in Theory, I know of other theories that work on paper, but not in practice. Communism is the best thing since sliced bread if you ever read the pamplet:) Govermnet regulation should be minimized, but they should also protect the money supply from the poison we now see. Protecting the value of our money should be the first priority for the Federal Reserve. They should be regulating the money supply.

    I am a strong proponent for making a 20% downpayment mandatory for all home loans. For the longest time you were required to have 50% of your money in the pot if you traded on margin in the equities. 20% down is not unreasonable to require if people want to play with other people's money in the home markets. Leverage is a bitch only if you have something to lose, I expect many $0 down people will simply walk away from their mistake and never pay $1 back to the bank that is forced to eat it.

    I am wondering if/when the derivatives markets that are intangled in the stock market will be the next smoldering hole in our economy. Buffet is a smart man and he is very afraid of the derivatives.

    135   Different Sean   2007 Mar 9, 8:45pm  

    Space Ace Says:
    Miami-based Related, the nation’s largest condo developer, has trotted out a rebranded “affordable housing division,” to build condos for buyers priced out of the market.

    Very interesting. How do they do that, given they have to purchase land or a building at inflated prices first? Building affordable housing isn't as easy as just building and selling for less -- unless you achieve it with smaller floorplates...

    136   Different Sean   2007 Mar 9, 9:41pm  

    astrid Says:
    PS - Anyone here (other than GOOG employees, you know who you are) played around with Google’s new custom search? I would love to build a patrick.net housing bubble metasearch…if you guys are willing to help…

    can't patrick just embed some HTML code from GOOG somewhere on the home page?

    138   Brand165   2007 Mar 10, 1:16am  

    PAR, it is tough to be an unloved troll. Without any attention they shrivel up into tiny little yapping dogs. And as we all know, most dogs less than 24" make a lot of noise, but generally don't have a point.

    I think he's actually trying to get back on board with the theme of the blog, though. We do complain a lot about over-leveraged boomers in McMansions. :)

    139   sfbubblebuyer   2007 Mar 10, 1:31am  

    Is it complaining about? Or laughing at? I think we may be switching from one to the other.

    140   Peter P   2007 Mar 10, 1:32am  

    PAR, it is tough to be an unloved troll.

    Is there a loved troll?

    I do miss MarinaPrime, aka The Troll. :)

    141   Brand165   2007 Mar 10, 1:45am  

    Sometimes trolls are witty. Perhaps those trolls are not loved, but they are not entirely hated either. Their entertaining posts offer a small redeeming quality.

    142   Brand165   2007 Mar 10, 2:33am  

    From Yahoo! Finance article "Debating Standards for Mortgage Lenders" by Ruth Simon on March 1, 2007 (http://tinyurl.com/2y8yhr):

    Some 2.51% of mortgages were delinquent in the fourth quarter, the highest level since early 2002, according to Equifax Inc. and Moody's Economy.com Inc.

    This little factoid escaped me earlier. 2.51% of mortgages were delinquent in 4Q06? How is that even possible? I would expect a much higher foreclosure rate across the nation given that number. Does the delinquent payment number not really correlate well with actual defaults and foreclosures?

    143   frank649   2007 Mar 10, 3:22am  

    Did anyone catch last week’s announcement by Freddie Mac that they would no longer buy loans where there is a “high likelihood” that borrowers cannot meet their monthly payments and which are “highly vulnerable to foreclosure.” Is'nt that tantamount to an admission that Freddie Mac formerly bought loans knowing full well that they would likely end in default?!

    http://www.freddiemac.com/news/archives/corporate/2007/20070227_subprimelending.html

    "McLean, VA – Freddie Mac (NYSE: FRE) today announced that it will cease buying subprime mortgages that have a high likelihood of excessive payment shock and possible foreclosure. First, Freddie Mac will only buy subprime adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) – and mortgage-related securities backed by these subprime loans – that qualify borrowers at the fully-indexed and fully-amortizing rate."

    144   Brand165   2007 Mar 10, 3:27am  

    Perhaps they knew full well that the loans were very risky. More likely, Freddie Mac just dispensed with the proper oversight. When so much cash is sloshing around, it's easy to get reckless within a huge organization.

    145   e   2007 Mar 10, 5:40am  

    A common meme of this board is that as housing prices keep going up, employers will seek to move to other places to get lower operating costs.

    Well, check out what facebook is doing:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/10/technology/10google.html?ei=5070&em=&en=750fa2a750111af9&ex=1173675600&pagewanted=all

    Instead of making it easier for employees to live far from work, Facebook, the social networking site, makes it easier for them to live nearby: it offers a $600 monthly housing subsidy for those who live within a mile of the company’s Palo Alto headquarters.

    Instead of trying to reduce their costs, they've recognized the importance of people living nearby. $7200 a year - pretty good perk!

    146   Different Sean   2007 Mar 10, 7:00am  

    Really? “It will be terrible” to deny you a 100% after you’ve been unemployed twice recently? Will it really be so “terrible” for your to rent for a bit, fix your f*cking credit by paying your bills, and potentially save you from foreclosure by having you save up a freaking downpayment?

    Not necessarily. If he can afford it, he can afford it. Short periods of unemployment are sometimes out of people's control. I don't see why the risk management processes of the bank, heavily loaded in their favour, should dictate whether someone can own their own home or not. Credit scores are a pretty robotic and punishing system which don't make much allowance for circumstances such as these. Of course, if he's immediately underwater on his mortgage payments and starts to fall behind, that's a different story...

    147   Different Sean   2007 Mar 10, 7:04am  

    2.51% of mortgages were delinquent in 4Q06?

    Also, they may catch up on their payments. Falling behind in even 1 payment may set the delinquency flag, possibly even due to errors such as delays in processing or submitting payments... So it could be a somewhat bloated statistic...

    148   frank649   2007 Mar 10, 7:36am  

    "Well, check out what facebook is doing..."

    I would venture a guess that that $7200 is coming out of their employee's compensation in one form or another.

    149   astrid   2007 Mar 10, 8:01am  

    They only give it to people who live within a mile of their campus. Guess who gets the call when something goes wrong at 2 in the morning?

    150   FormerAptBroker   2007 Mar 10, 8:53am  

    astrid asks:

    > Why isn’t Robert Novak in prison?

    Then SFWoman Says:

    > Must be that famous liberal media protecting him.

    The “press” (both right and left) tends to “protect it’s own”, but I don’t get why it is not a bigger deal to print a “government secret” (or confidential grand jury testimony) on the front page of a paper than it is to tell secret information to a reporter.

    > But no, the ‘liberal’ media has given us such great,
    > investigative reporting on the death of Anna Nicole
    > Smith and Brittany Spears haircuts.

    The “conservative” Examiner now has an “American Idol” section.

    > Guiliani is toast, there’s no way the Christian right
    > will back this man.

    The far left is no fan of Hillary, but most will still vote for her. I predict that Guiliani would win all 50 states in the biggest landslide in modern history if he went up against Hillary (or Obama) next month…

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