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Gallery of Unlikely Bubble Victims


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2007 Mar 29, 8:28am   16,745 views  220 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

typical media bubble 'victim'

One of the more interesting side-effects of the housing bubble's collapse is its ability to produce victims from some rather unexpected places. For example: Lennar Corporation, one of the nation's largest home builders which profited handsomely during the run-up (and has been accused by some of substandard workmanship), has just officially been granted victim status from the media:

One by one, some of the nation's largest home-builders have seen quarterly earnings get crushed by the slump in the housing market. Lennar Corp. became the latest victim Tuesday, with a 73 percent plunge in first-quarter earnings and predictions that it is going to fall short of 2007 earnings goals. Since the start of February, home-builders KB Homes, Hovanian Enterprises Inc. and Toll Brothers Inc. all reported falling profits. Stuart Miller, Lennar's president and chief executive, said a lack of demand for the winter-spring buying season, new problems with subprime lenders and higher-than-desired land costs hurt profits.

Apparently, the recent sub-prime credit crunch has also produced quite a few human victims among those who can no longer borrow beyond their means indefinitely and add to their already crushing debt loads:

“A first-time home buyer with an annual income of about $36,000 and almost no savings, Mr. Fields did not qualify for a prime loan for the $315,000 house. So his half brother arranged a 15-year mortgage from WMC Mortgage Company, a subprime division of General Electric, and another from the Option One Mortgage Company, the subprime group of H & R Block.”

“The $2,312 monthly payments were much more than he could afford, but Mr. Fields said his brother assured him that they could find tenants. They did, but then lost them. Last July, without the rental income, his brother, who was managing the property, stopped paying the lenders. Mr. Fields now owes almost $30,000 in delinquent payments and has fallen out with his half brother.”

“‘It’s just sad,’ said Mr. Fields. ‘I can’t even borrow money.’”

And the damage is not just limited to uneducated, Joe 6-pack types with limited means and bad credit. Look what just happened to a PhD with a good job:

“Unlike many borrowers who took out subprime loans, Andy Sobel had good credit, a decent job and modest savings, but he needed to stretch to buy a home in the white-hot San Diego housing market in 2004.”

“Three years later, Sobel has lost his home and his savings, and he faces a big tax bill as a consequence of a failed subprime mortgage held by Countrywide Financial Corp. he says he should never have been written.”

...“‘You never think that this could happen to you. You feel like an idiot,’ said Sobel, who has a doctorate in education. ‘You fall down and they stab you.’”

If these people can become media "victims" of the housing bubble, who's next? Some possibilities:

Alan Greenspan:
"I was forced to lower rates to 1% to moderate the tech bubble recession, and to make the economy look good, so incumbents could get reelected. Those big, mean politicians were really pressuring me! How was I supposed to know it would spawn an even bigger bubble in real estate?? I'm just a powerless (former) central bankster!"

David Lereah:
"I didn't want to keep fanning the flames with outrageous lies and baseless industry propaganda, but I had to feed my family. The NAR kept on blackmailing me with my enormous salary and benefits. What was I supposed to do --quit and become a regular working-stiff like all you low-rent schmucks out there?"

Gary Watts:
"If I didn't come right out and say '15% was in the bag' for 2006, they would have hurt my family. I practically choked on those words, but it was either say it or 'lights out' for little Billy and Janie. I had to choose between my family or my integrity --what would anyone have done in my situation?"

Casey Serin:
"How could I say 'no' to such sweet deals, when everything I learned from those R.K./Robert G. Allen books and seminars was screaming 'Yes, yes, yes!' Besides, Galina was really pressuring me to 'get a house'. How was I suppoosed to know she meant only one? Besides, all those sellers really tricked me --they used my Macaroni Grill & Jamba Juice addiction to talk me into those illegal cash-back deals. They preyed on my fears of being a Looser and took full advantage of me. I feel so... violated."

Discuss, enjoy...
HARM

#housing

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177   astrid   2007 Mar 31, 1:08pm  

I don't think the Mandarin classes ever amount to anything. Most ABC kids in the DC area gets Sunday Chinese lessons, but I've yet to meet a proficient speaker. Also, do they get the Mainland Chinese version or the Taiwan version? I always found Taiwan Mandarin to be quite rustic.

178   astrid   2007 Mar 31, 1:13pm  

"> Not to subvert the thread, but whatever
> happened to forced labor for prisoners?"

That sort of thinking goes away when the concept of natural rights gets carried too far. We can blame the Sixties for going from equal rights to egalitarianism. The inflated expectations lead to everybody wanting more pie and no one thinking about how to pay for it.

Of course, it really doesn't help to have a Reagan era harsh drug policy in place. Most people in prison are the there for drug offenses.

179   Allah   2007 Mar 31, 1:33pm  

HARM,

Can you please take my post out of moderation. I don't know why it didn't go through, there is only one link.

180   OO   2007 Mar 31, 1:57pm  

GC,

you need to see the second generation of the ruling class from China. The second and third generation of the ruling class from China are generally educated overseas and take pride in speaking fluent English to each other. Take Bo Gua Gua, the grandson of Bo Yi Bo for example, he went to a UK boarding school and now is attending Oxford.

I went to a few parties thrown by investment bankers for the grandsons and grand-daughters of the Chinese ruling class, they all speak English to each other.

Cultural colonization only takes one or two generations to complete.

181   DaBoss   2007 Mar 31, 2:50pm  

Bab33,
Drug abuse is wide spread in the Bay Area, not just the street people you see. Even in more desirable areas like Palo Altos and Los Gatos, drugs by kids of rich folks is common. Cocaine was in wide spead use in my hometown of Los Gatos in the 1980s particular with very rich.

182   astrid   2007 Mar 31, 4:04pm  

GC,

Lots have changed in the mean time, lots of kids in Shanghai are now very comfortable with English, particularly those educated with an English curriculum (even in China). In work settings, everybody seems to refer to each other by their English names. Those who are confident with their English skill seems to flaunt it.

183   astrid   2007 Mar 31, 4:08pm  

Bap33,

Hmmm, if they decriminalized drugs (like Europe) and make dealing less lucrative, there wouldn't be so many violent drug dealers and gang wars.

I'm not morally justifying using hard drugs, but I don't think the government should intrude in people's self destructiveness. Government intrusions have just made the matter worse.

184   astrid   2007 Mar 31, 4:14pm  

It's not clear how many grandchildren of the old ruling elite (and children of the new ruling elite) will lead China. I think the vast majority are simply packed off with a lot of money (embezzled from the state) to live abroad. They might visit from time to time, but I'm not sure many would stick around. Lots of laid off factory workers would certainly like to tear into a piece of these little spoilt brats.

185   Jimbo   2007 Mar 31, 4:43pm  

The Micheal Savage kook/troll is back.

186   Peter P   2007 Mar 31, 5:03pm  

I’m not morally justifying using hard drugs, but I don’t think the government should intrude in people’s self destructiveness. Government intrusions have just made the matter worse.

Yep. So long as they are not affecting others I am fine with that.

We should focus on removing violent criminals from the streets. I am a firm believer of capital punishment, although I think they need to make things a little more speedy. Having convicts on death row for decades is a pure waste of tax money.

187   Peter P   2007 Mar 31, 5:09pm  

One more thing, it is perfectly fine to decriminalize things that are not morally justified. The goal is to make the world a better place. People should be educated to do the right thing. The law should function to prevent wrongdoings from affecting the society as a whole.

I do think public school should teach religious studies. Young people do need some moral guidance.

188   Allah   2007 Mar 31, 11:42pm  

HARM,

I asked you to take my post out of moderation, not delete it.

189   Michael Holliday   2007 Apr 1, 1:52am  

Jon Says:

Costco - fat asses, fat-assed SUVs in the parking lot, people who have nothing to live for save their next skid of twinkies and a re-run of Big Momma’s House.

No thank you.
_____

Here in Phoenix, an overweight Sam's Club (kissing cousin of Costco) shopper suffered a massive heart attack and keeled right over and died on the floor.

Despite the dramatic inconvenience of the situation, the soulless consumers went busily about their vacuous business, and hardly broke pace in their mad dash to stuff their fat faces with free egg roll samples...

I sh-t you not.

190   Michael Holliday   2007 Apr 1, 2:25am  

justme Says:

Michael Holliday,

Come on, now. You didn’t have anything to say about all the republican/conservative business owners that love the cheap illegal labor, but then somehow are able to talk out the other side of their mouth about the “damn illegals”, and complaining that the “liberals” are doing nothing about it.

The solution to the whole problem is to apply the law and punish anyone that employs illegal immigrants. Will you sign up for that?
_____

I didn't mention it because of brevity. But remember, it's both Repub and Dem fat cats. It's unethical power/money whores in both camps. When Clinton was taking heat from New Gingrich for screwing around with Monica Lewinsky while married to Hillary, Gingrich (or is it Gingrinch?) was cheating on his own (dying of cancer?) wife and having an affair.

There's too many people on the take now. It's becoming like ancient Rome, only worse. Our downfall won't take four centuries. It will be a lot faster because of the rapid pace and intensity of our own moral implosion, coupled with high technology (which is able to close distance and knowlege gaps quicker) and the power of financial leverage.

This country is quickly losing its soul, and not many people even care. I think California, except for certain enclaves whose population still maintains a modicum of moral/ethical wherewithal, is a key player in the misery game called The Death of Western Civilization, where there are no winners and only losers.

191   Brand165   2007 Apr 1, 2:28am  

Most drugs are very addictive. If you allowed drug use to the public, a good chunk of those people would eventually fall into social disrepair and depend on welfare. How many hardcore stoners do you know who actually hold a high-paying job? Comparatively, how many hardcore stoners do you think are on welfare?

If you cut out the social safety net of welfare, and then legalized an addiction that drove people to poverty, the crime rates in this country would soar. You would have an underclass of addicted people with no means of survival, save for violence and especially theft.

192   danville woman   2007 Apr 1, 2:57am  

Just finished reading the local Sunday paper (Alamo, Danville). It looks as if asking prices on homes are increasing. Zillow does not corroborate the higher prices at this point. Many more listings are available this week, so maybe the prices are unrealistic.

193   sfbubblebuyer   2007 Apr 1, 3:54am  

Well....

Guess what... I finally buckled. My wife finally talked me into bidding on this house and she really wanted it, so we bid 10% over. Just found our offer was accepted. New home, here we come!

194   FormerAptBroker   2007 Apr 1, 4:06am  

Brand Says:

> Most drugs are very addictive.

Most (but all) dugs are not very addictive. Growing up on the SF Peninsula in the 70’s (where we were second in the nation to Marin for teen drug use) and going to college in the East Bay in the 80’s (where we were probably #1 in college student drug use) dam near everyone used LOTS of drugs. With the exception of a few people that probably belong to more wine clubs than they should and who will drink more than they should a party with an open bottle of (17 yr +) single malt I don’t know anyone addicted to drugs…

> If you allowed drug use to the public, a good chunk
> of those people would eventually fall into social
> disrepair and depend on welfare.

Time for a reality check…”Does anyone really think that there are lots of potential drug addicts out there who would be smoking crack or using meth if only it was legal?”

> How many hardcore stoners do you know who
> actually hold a high-paying job?

None, since there is not a single person with a high-paying job working his ass off and waiting for the day that he can buy legal Humboldt green bud…

Then Jon Says:

> I also note that the vast majority of people who
> advocate the legalization/taxation of hard drugs
> don’t use them.

I’ve noticed just the opposite, and would say that I’ve met very few people who don’t use drugs that are pushing to make them legal (mention that you have a bong in the car at a Libertarian Party or NORML event and you will clear the room…

195   Jimbo   2007 Apr 1, 4:13am  

Yeah, I agree with FAB here (is this a first?). I lived in the student Co-Ops when I was a student at Berkeley and I think every single person that went through there tried some sort of "hard" drug at one point or another.

The vast majority of us have gone on to be successful doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, city planners, teachers and non-profit activists. I only know of one guy who had any serious problems with drugs and his drug of choice is alchohol.

The rave scene is full of people who use ecstasy, mushrooms and acid and advocate for the legalization of drugs. Many of them are successful in their chosen career. Some of them are burnouts, sure, but show me a sector of society that does not have some kind of problem with people abusing drugs.

I think Oakland's main problem is the crime associated with drugs being illegal, not the drug use itself. If it weren't for drug prohibition, the prices would come down to the same level as a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 and people could "spare change" to get their high, instead of committing burglary. In Amsterdam, they give heroin addicts free drugs and their crime rate has come down because of it.

196   Jimbo   2007 Apr 1, 4:21am  

I guess congratulations are in order SFBubbleBuyer. Looks like you got a relatively large place in a good school district for what passes for a good price in the Silly Valley land of real estate.

I doubt it will appreciate much in price over the next decade, but you already know that. Sometimes the intangables are worth it.

197   Jimbo   2007 Apr 1, 4:50am  

I think it would be a good exercise for the libertarians to build a ‘utopia’ community where all drugs are legal and freely available. I’d love to watch that lesson learned.

Isn't that pretty close to what The Netherlands is today? They seem to be doing fine, quite a bit better in many ways than the US, in fact.

198   Allah   2007 Apr 1, 4:51am  

Well….

Guess what… I finally buckled. My wife finally talked me into bidding on this house and she really wanted it, so we bid 10% over. Just found our offer was accepted. New home, here we come!

April fools!!!!!!! :roll:

199   sfbubblebuyer   2007 Apr 1, 4:58am  

Allah, you are quick on the uptake. :D

200   Michael Holliday   2007 Apr 1, 5:00am  

SFBubbleBuyer Says:

Well….

Guess what… I finally buckled. My wife finally talked me into bidding on this house and she really wanted it, so we bid 10% over. Just found our offer was accepted. New home, here we come!
_____

Good luck!

_____

Jimbo Says:

...I lived in the student Co-Ops when I was a student at Berkeley and I think every single person that went through there tried some sort of “hard” drug at one point or another.

The vast majority of us have gone on to be successful doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, city planners, teachers and NON-PROFIT ACTIVISTS.
_____

WTF?

You mean some liberal "legalize Marijuana now," so-called-peace-activist social anarchist now has the moral and intellectual equivalence of an honorable doctor, lawyer and engineer?

M. Holliday: "Pardon me, sir. What is it that you do for a living?"

Person #1: "I'm a writer..."

M. Holliday: "Yes, I see! In other words you're unemployed right now."

M. Holliday: "And what is it that you do?"

Person #2: "Oh, I'm a professional peace activist. And I don't believe in big, organized religion; I'm spiritual."

M. Holliday: "Oh, you're a professional anti-war rabble rouser, pro-abortionist with no morality. But you believe in big sister Hillary Clinton."

Go figure!

201   Jimbo   2007 Apr 1, 5:09am  

Sure, society needs its professional agitators just as much as any other function. The Right has its think tanks, the Left its non-profits and universities. People like Mission Housing do the world a lot of good. This is how a healthy democracy functions.

I am curious Mr. Holliday, what do you do for a living? You have the marks of "professional shit stirrer" written all over you.

202   Peter P   2007 Apr 1, 5:23am  

But no welfare or aide or free lunch to druggies or thier born-hooked kids.

Bap33, I think welfare itself is worse than drugs. True, there should be welfare for productive members of the society who are down pathologically unlucky, but in general welfare should be as restricted as dangerous drugs.

On second thought denying welfare to druggies is a good start nonetheless. :)

203   Peter P   2007 Apr 1, 5:36am  

Admission to a brand-name college is viewed by many parents, and their children, as holding the best promise of professional success and economic well-being in an increasingly competitive world.

Again, success is about bypassing competitors, not winning competitions.

Competitive employees are excellent corporate servants though.

1- The majority of the “good school districts worshippers” will end up in The hopeless rat race (that is based on the wrong assumption that getting into a selective college do enhance one’s future lifetime income….)

I agree.

204   Brand165   2007 Apr 1, 5:38am  

Rats, allah beat me to calling April Fool's on SFBB. :)

205   Peter P   2007 Apr 1, 5:40am  

You mean some liberal “legalize Marijuana now,” so-called-peace-activist social anarchist now has the moral and intellectual equivalence of an honorable doctor, lawyer and engineer?

Mike, I would support the decriminalization of Marijuana, although I would never go near any drug.

I am a libertarian, which is not the same as an anarchist. I gave up hope on peace already and now I see warfare as a necessarily process.

I am a crappy engineer though.

206   Brand165   2007 Apr 1, 5:42am  

FAB says: [My friend in favor of legalization] points out that some heroin and meth users are able to lead otherwise perfectly normal lives and that it should be sold and taxed like anything else.

There is a subset of stimulant users that are actually self-medicating for various neurochemical issues (these tend to be the same folks who are addicted to nicotene and caffeine). And I agree that there is a certain part of the population that doesn't get unbreakable addictions to drugs. But in college I knew a few people who really wanted to quit and couldn't. Legalize hardcore drugs and you will just increase the number of true addicts.

Jimbo: Have you actually been to Amsterdam? Which cities?

207   Jimbo   2007 Apr 1, 5:43am  

Good prank SFBubblebuyer. Feel for it hook, line and stinker.

208   Jimbo   2007 Apr 1, 5:45am  

Brand,

Yes, I have been to The Netherlands a number of times. I have been to Amsterdam like five times, Rotterdam, The Hague and a couple of small agricultural villages that I cannot remember the name of. I really like the Dutch and think they have a pretty neat society going there.

209   Peter P   2007 Apr 1, 5:46am  

New thread: April is the clueless month

210   Michael Holliday   2007 Apr 1, 6:23am  

theotherside Says:

Admission to a brand-name college is viewed by many parents, and their children, as holding the best promise of professional success and economic well-being in an increasingly competitive world.

Peter P. Replies:

Again, success is about bypassing competitors, not winning competitions.

COMPETETIVE EMPLOYEES ARE EXCELLENT CORPORATE SERVANTS THOUGH.
_____

Yes! Very astute observation.

They are born and bred to be servants of the globalist grand design

211   Randy H   2007 Apr 1, 6:39am  

I'm just happy to see tOs get suckered by an April Fools joke. Joke's on you.

212   FormerAptBroker   2007 Apr 1, 8:01am  

Someone Said:

> I think it would be a good exercise for the libertarians to
> build a ‘utopia’ community where all drugs are legal and
> freely available. I’d love to watch that lesson learned.

Then Jimbo Says:

> Isn’t that pretty close to what The Netherlands is today?
> They seem to be doing fine, quite a bit better in many
> ways than the US, in fact.

The Netherlands is mostly white and has lots of drugs, but not a lot of problems. Grateful Dead shows were mostly white and had a lot of drugs, but not a lot of problems.

West Oakland and Hunters Point are mostly black and have a lot of drugs and have a lot of problems. The only politically correct thing we can blame is the drugs.

String Cheese Incident and Fish fans and UHS kids in Presidio Heights use more drugs per person than the gang members in West Oakland and Hunters Point, but don’t shoot each other as much…

213   FormerAptBroker   2007 Apr 1, 8:05am  

Brand Says:

> FAB says: [My friend in favor of legalization] points out that
> some heroin and meth users are able to lead otherwise
> perfectly normal lives and that it should be sold and taxed
> like anything else.

I didn’t say this, since I have heard of functioning heroin users I have never heard of anyone who has going for a long time using meth without crashing hard. Meth is evil stuff that will melt your brain and turn an otherwise normal person in to a suicidal maniac (as a landlord and property manager I’ve had way more contact with meth users then I would have liked to have)…

214   Brand165   2007 Apr 1, 9:04am  

Oops, sorry. I checked the posts and I was quoting Jon. Sorry, FAB.

215   astrid   2007 Apr 1, 12:17pm  

Jon and Brand,

I'm not advocating drug usage, just arguing that over twenty years into a failed policy of drug criminalization has done very little good and an awful lot of harm by making narcotic distribution into a highly profitable business.

Anybody in this country who wants drugs can get it already. If seeing what drug does to a person doesn't discourage them, the vague chance of getting arrested for usage will not change their minds.

SFBB,

LOL! That's an ugly house.

216   Michael Holliday   2007 Apr 1, 3:11pm  

Jimbo Says:

I am curious Mr. Holliday, what do you do for a living? You have the marks of “professional shit stirrer” written all over you.
_____

Good observation. I'm on break from doing a conservative talk show on an AM station in Arizona, for recreation.

I'm employed at a defense contractor as a Project Analyst.

I'm not pointing my finger saying, "I'm better than you, I'm gainfully employed, etc."

I'm not like that. I'm just highlighting some left-wing stereotypes that happen to be true.

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