patrick.net

"The free market worked, the houses sold for asking price and those exclusive agents were left holding their dicks."

Monopoly or not, I do not think the MLS in its current form will last long. In a rising market, the sellers did not care about the commission, as long as they got a profit on the sale. This is the same mentality as the "tax refund" imbeciles. But in a steady or declining market, when the seller sees that his house sold for what he paid for it, but he must write a check of $35,000 or more just to cover the sales commission, the miopic "gotta list with an agent" mentality will disappear. Maybe we will get fee based appointment maker/showers and new forms of independent sales databases. You could visit the database on-line (or at kiosk), make appointments, and drive yourself to the properties.

Malcolm

Now you're using straw men.

Coke's formulae are trade secrets. Any other company is allowed to do their best to replicate the results, and even to reverse engineer within limits of established common knowledge.

What is a proprietary trade secret about MLS? Am I to believe that I cannot replicate their database structure? Their screens? Their report formats?

Rather, Zillow's estimation formulae may well be a trade secret. They cannot and should not be forced to reveal that. I'll tell you what. I'll agree that MLS shouldn't have to reveal their "search algorithms". You and I both know those aren't worth squat.

Malcolm and crue-
I asked a former Ebay employee why Ebay didnt get into Real Estate as deep as they could. The answer was, many states require a certified represenative in the state to conduct business. I suspect this was put into place when interstate banking regulation was being rewritten and powers to be in each state wanted to maintain control over markets.
If we had Fed Deregulation this would assist in breaking down barriers.

Since Ebay isnt a Realtor firm they are excluded from conducting such business on mass scale in California. Actually I think they are a Delware company.

Randy you are questioning basic economic theory of excess profits. Economic theory states they are temporary so now we are discussing freshman college stuff. Anyway I won't be baited with YOUR criteria since I don't see realtors as monopolies why would I strain to fabricate a concept of transactional monopolies to make a point I don't even want to make?

In fact, the Supreme Court *just* ruled in a case which may serve to deny states wide regulatory powers over mortgage financing and more basic real estate transaction services. The Supremes seem to believe this power falls within the Federal Govt's domain.

Now whether that's good or bad in this context is yet to be seen. Depends how much control one believes the NAR has over Congress.

BTW Realtors are regulated so why does the criteria have to be unregulated transactional monopolies. Ebay btw is classic since it attempts to block transactions outside of itself but our system understands that IP is necessary for a business to fairly protect its revenue. Ebay is an auction site, not a networking site.

SFBB,

If you're like me I kind of cringed when the realtwhores basically "stormed" Craigslist. For a very brief period sellers seeking alternatives found a little haven. They were able to peddle their wares (for cheap) on C/L without having to compete with an advertising juggernaut like NAR.

Well NAR wasn't having ANY of it. They quickly flooded it with SO MANY listings finding the actual FSBO's was like finding a needle in a haystack! I s_u_p_p_o_s_e some would argue that this is just another example of "free markets" in action but to me it's the equivelant of Safeway plunking down in the middle of the "farmer's market"? Uh...? Is this what Craig intended?

Malcolm

No. I am not talking about excess profits. I am talking about dead loss. I don't know where you went to school but it must have rocked if you covered dead loss as freshman 101 econ.

Dead loss can be a permanent fixture in a non-competitive market. Thus, the terms "dead loss".

Just see SFbubble's post, I can't say it any better.

"What the NAR does is more like price fixing than anything else"

SF, they do it everyday with fake bids creating artificially high prices.
If we had an open auction where all bidders MUST be present and
a true open bidding process is conducted, then we could eliminate
any and all price fixing. This would also eliminate any sticky prices
and todays sellers would face immediate market moves. Gone would
be.. "my castle is worth a million pounds of gold." Sorry Charlie! Aint gonna happen.

No, and I wouldn't and don't take offense to the question.

SP - that could be taxable? Im not sure, my knowledge on Personal Taxes is limited. But is sure smells like ordinary income (boot).

Space, it used to be rare for bidding wars to occur. Normal markets are a buyer and seller negotiating, we don't need more laws or systems to make sure that everyone. ..............

Malcolm-
Agreed, more deregulation may be the answer.

Why can't people in this country just say no? If the price makes it so the deal is not attractive don't do it. Don't go running around looking for someone to legislate or a court to force the deal to your terms.

We just did a whole thread devoted to pocket listings and feigned bidding wars so whatever "regulation" realtors fall under, it needs a serious going over.

(It does make for some lively debate though)

We are just saying NO!

Bubble blogs are a buyer's strike water cooler. Uh! Excuse me, some of us here are actually thirsty (elbows way to front)

OMG, nothing but love btw, but DINO you just sat there, and made all of these points about MLS being monopolistic because no one can comptete with it, and it does all of this and that, and then you bring up the subject of pocket listings, where the agent on his own chooses not to use the tool because of an economic benefit.

This blog is great, this is actually the first message board that I've actively posted to.

How do you tax a mini-valise containing $250K in currency notes that the buyer hands to the seller as partial, un-recorded consideration?

Don't currency notes have embedded GPS chips?

"Can you show me any other examples of *transactional* monopolies which have been (a) not regulated and (b) found legal? "

Again. The National Football League

Malcom,

As usual, you're missing the point. It's this ENTIRE CULTURE of entitlement where NAR sees the buyer as nothing more than a necessary evil. The culmination of which is the "ultimate realtwhore circle jerk-fest" where properties are flipped back and forth amongst various straw buyers (complete with appraise-whore/lender collusion) where it takes the D.A a year and a half to figure out who was s@cking who off.

Sea World

Missing the point? I don't even see a point in that last post.

This blog is great, this is actually the first message board that I’ve actively posted to.

Same here. Ben's blog is too informative. No one will talk about sushi.

Now the speculative bubble was some giant conspiracty of the realtors?

:) or cake.

You do realize entire culture of entitlement is a paradox.

Like saying they are all monopolies.

But it has to be from a JBR point of view, truly successful people can keep their silly opinions to themselves.

We like to inform, persuade, AND entertain.

Yep. We have sophistry and post-modernism. :) We also have excellent data and analysis from Randy.

Malcom,

Help Me, Help YOU! O.K?

NAR/MLS/REIC very quickly indoctrinates "rookies" into the "finer points" of being a realtwhore. USE the MLS when it suits your/our needs, circumvent (and SCREW the client) when double dipping is in order!

This infraction (if caught) carries some pretty stiff penalties, as much as five HUNDRED dollars! Pffft (I just got both ends for a total of 60k?) I think I can swing a $500 fine. Now you're trying to tell us these assclowns should be allowed to "self-regulate". That they should be trusted to run MLS in an ethical fashion? You're kidding, right?

Out of curiosity, which blog is the "ben's blog" y'all are referrin' to?

Yes, they will go out of business much qucker if you let them hang themselves. If you don't trust your realtor don't use him/her.

Out of curiosity, which blog is the “ben’s blog” y’all are referrin’ to?

That would be the mother of all bubble blogs, thehousingbubbleblog.com.

But patrick.net is a community, if not a family.

If you get full asking price why would you care if you agent got both sides? Their job is to sell your house, if he has a pocket buyer I'd rather have that 'exclusivity'.

If you get full asking price why would you care if you agent got both sides?

I agree. But I will only deal with good agents.

Your problem DINO is that you try to paint all realtors the same. They can be viewed as a commodity (contrary to many monopolies) but even that is not right because they are different in abilities, experiences, and networks. Some are good, some are disgusting, some are just new inompetent Johnny Come Lately types.

I suspect your model of how things should work basically ends up being a government HUD official lists your house in the national registry, then a buyer is approved by the national bank, and the deal is transacted at the government determined fair market price. Then no one can get hurt, and it will be much more efficient.

I have met some good agents. I even have friends who are agents. You just need to trust your instincts on whether they can help you.

Malcom,

Randy has tried to help you, I've tried to help you and you just keep flailing for some kind of loose thread to tug on. NAR is crooked, we all know it and their culture of corruption, collusion and entitlement is both legendary and well documented. There is no paradox. Not here.

And what's with the JBR/"successful" cheap shot? I've made (and lost) a lot money. I've never made anything secret about that. Anybody can act "classy" when they're winning.