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Evil Buyers Display Extreme Cruelty to Distressed Sellers


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2007 Apr 17, 5:43am   34,383 views  547 comments

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buyer eyeing seller

Sadistic, Greedy Buyers Toying with Sellers Like Cats with Prey*
Copyright © 2007 UnReality Times®. All Rights Reserved.
by David Lereah, Leslie Appleton-Young and John Karevoll

As the alleged real estate bear market enters its second year of hitting bottom, some buyers out there are clearly enjoying this one-time market aberration --perhaps a little too much. Is deriving sadistic glee from other peoples' suffering a nice thing to do? The Germans have a word for this: schadenfreude (and we all know what cruelty the Germans are capable of!).

According to Donald Parisi, president of the Realtor Association of the Fox Valley (IL), buyer cruelty is reaching grotesque proportions:

"Parisi said he believes ‘doom and gloom’ media coverage has hurt the market. 'We’ve seen some very ridiculous offers,' Parisi said. 'People shouldn’t be desperate … The problem is some buyers are out there just to take advantage of the marketplace.'"

This view is further clarified by Jim Fox, manager of Realty One in Canton, Ohio:

“As unrealistic, said Fox, are some would-be buyers; they expect sellers to practically give their homes away. ‘Some people, … they want us to help them steal a home,’ Fox said.”

Even more to the point than Mr. Parisi, Florida Realtorâ„¢ Becky Troutt gets right to the heart of the matter:

"I think some of the buyers are out for blood! ...There is a difference from 'getting a deal' and 'trying to get something for nothing'! Just because the market is slow right now and homes take longer to sell.....doesn't mean that sellers are going to give their homes away and it doesn't give you the right to go for the jugular vein! How insulted would you be if you were that seller and someone asked you to come down off your price $90,000? Do you think you would say...ok sure no problem. I'm not spinning my heels in mud with an unrealistic buyer who only wants to try and rip a seller off!"

A note to home buyers: If you only want to pay $200,000 for a home......don't look at homes that are $90,000 more than you want to spend or can afford just because it's a slow market, and you think you can get a seller down that much.....because....IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!!!"

Now, that's telling 'em like it is, Becky!

While the unbridled greed and glee exhibited by these sadistic buyers (and the American Dreamâ„¢-hating press) are stomach-turning awful, they are not the primary causes of this upside-down market. The real culprit for this most unnatural and unhealthy market condition, is well understood in the industry:

"What appears to be driving the increase in foreclosures is that home values are not rising, DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage said. 'Take away home-price appreciation, or ratchet it down or even make prices negative, and all of those forms of (economic) distress start to result in increased foreclosure activity,' LePage said."

Clearly what's needed here is massive government intervention to protect homeowners and rekindle the normal 20%/year appreciation. This might take the form of a distressed homeowner mortgage buy-down, or federal underwriting for all the kindhearted subprime lenders who generously enabled low-income Americans participate in the American Dreamâ„¢ (often mischaracterized by Gloom'n'Doomers as a "bailout").

To proactively tackle this looming crisis, the NAR and CAR have teamed up with the MBAA (Mortgage Bankers Association of America) to sponsor the Save the American Dreamâ„¢ Act of 2007. Says NAR Chief Economist, David Lereah, "We are urging people to sign our online petition, and write, call, email and beg their Senators and Congresspersons to support this badly needed piece of mercy legislation. Home ownership is as American as apple pie --only you (and Uncle Sam) have the power to save it! Please do your patriotic duty and support the SADA. God bless."

[*Note: while the offset quotes and links are real, this 'article' is a parody]

#housing

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503   mr beezer   2007 Apr 18, 12:32pm  

I think that smallpox still holds the record for killing humans

I like to think of myself as a professional musician
I dropped out of high school and the
Berklee School of Music Boston Mass

when I was a Steinway & Sons salesperson I thought of myself as a "professional salesperson"

And before marriage I paid dues to the Philadelphia Section of the PGA as an assistant Golf Professional

and now at 53 into my 17th month of retirement trading stocks and commodity futures options I call myself

a professional day trader
sec calls me a pattern day trader
morgan stanley calls me a client
message board longs when I short call me all sorts of things

so if people who know where bathrooms and kitchens are
located when walking clients thru a home want to call themselves professionals, its not a big deal. seriously

504   Sandibe   2007 Apr 18, 12:38pm  

I thought death holds the record for killing humans....

505   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 1:10pm  

Problem with Microsoft is they infringe on many patents from all kinds of companies. They are being sued by everyone. As result they pay billions in settlements and legal costs. They dont advertise how they hire the brigthest out of top universities. Here is just an example of one. Patent lawyers will tell about so many others.

Microsoft ended another long-standing legal dispute on Monday, announcing a $440 million settlement and licensing deal with InterTrust Technologies, which markets digital rights management tools.

506   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 1:14pm  

Actually a 50% drop would be great for bay area. Recent news on Seagate earnings show that demand is high but downward pricing pressure is very high. This is true with so many employers here.

Lets look at Japan prices declined over 50% yet they are still able to maintain dominance in Consumer and Comercial products world wide. Did Toyota Sony Panasonic Toshiba etc etc go bankrupt? No.. fact is they are No1 in the world.

507   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 1:21pm  

So how would that make the Bay Area like current-day Detroit?

Lets not forget the Auto Union won every demand from Auto companies.
High costing employers killed the business model that could not compete with cheaper Japanese products. This was also true back in late 80s when Japan dumped DRAM IC and killed off all US DRAM. It was a blood bath we never recovered from. They also dominate SemiEquipment and Mainframe production. Others in Korea Taiwan and Far East has dominated HT manufacturing. Yes Internet revolution gave us a second leg up but that is past now and the question is Whats Next?

That is the Risk not factored into home prices today for the long term. It was back in the 1980s. People were very informed that it can end on a flip of the dime. They did not overspand and did save like crazy.

So the anwser is buried in the past... HIGH EMPLOYEE COST and their mortgages!

508   Randy H   2007 Apr 18, 1:26pm  

Malcolm

I guarantee not all textbooks agree with your interpretation of "how it's done in business".

http://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/whoswho/bio.cfm?ID=53

Not only did I study directly under Greenwald, but had to use one of the many books he authored.

Another textbook which disagrees with you is:

"Economics of Strategy", Besanko et. al. I studied that under Dr. Kristen Barry, a reasonably prominent IP Patent and Antitrust expert witness and professor.

I didn't say you couldn't patent software. I said, verbatim, a pile of code which serves up records from a database. That is *not* patentable. If you can show me a successfully defended collection of patented SQL statements I'll retract my assertion. You also can't patent general utility functions like sort algorithms. You can patent a particular specific application of a sort algorithm (and thus a formula) like say a mechanism that sorts logical network structures for telco telecom usage (I know because I own such a patent). But you cannot patent* the sort itself, nor the code that expresses that sort.

Code is considered idiomatic anyway by the legal system, and not a source of IP. IP is contained in the concepts expressed in code.

*You can patent, but it is an empty patent easily knocked down by procedural challenges.

Just a question, what exactly do you think I do for a living? I just wonder, given your pronouncement In business we don’t mince words, patents are a legal monopoly. You're clearly speaking to me so as to inform me of my ignorance.

509   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 1:28pm  

And remember, the Japanese economy was in a recessions for the past 20 years recessions…

What recession?

510   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 1:29pm  

LOL! Dont kid your self ... walk into Best Buy or Frys... They still make PC Autos consumer and commercial exported products we here in the US envy.

511   Malcolm   2007 Apr 18, 1:31pm  

Randy, I just cut and pasted the software patent answer from the legal link. I wasn't challenging you in any way.

512   Malcolm   2007 Apr 18, 1:32pm  

How it's done in business has many schools of thought, what are you trying to prove to me?

513   Randy H   2007 Apr 18, 1:34pm  

Malcolm

Then please accept my apology.

Delineating quoted materials is very important in a forum like this. You can do it like TOS does, just using '---'.

Regardless, I still maintain the quoted material is flawed. Whenever I hear anyone speak for a wide diverse group like "we in business" I pretty much know it's BS. It's like saying "we in California...", or even "we on this blog...".

514   Malcolm   2007 Apr 18, 1:35pm  

Randy Says:
"Just a question, what exactly do you think I do for a living? I just wonder, given your pronouncement In business we don’t mince words, patents are a legal monopoly. You’re clearly speaking to me so as to inform me of my ignorance. "

I have no idea what you do for a living and I think you carry yourself as someone confident of their point of view.

515   Malcolm   2007 Apr 18, 1:36pm  

Randy since you want to argue basic details here you go: For everyone to share in if they wish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_and_patents

516   Randy H   2007 Apr 18, 1:39pm  

Don't stop there. Get to the core of software patents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent_debate

517   Randy H   2007 Apr 18, 1:40pm  

And then we can be cynically narcissistic about using Wiki itself, relying upon Wiki as a data source to criticize using Wiki as a data source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia#Criticism_and_controversy

518   Malcolm   2007 Apr 18, 1:45pm  

And why are we going to debate software patents?

519   Randy H   2007 Apr 18, 1:46pm  

We aren't.

I apologize. I'm just grumpy it's so freakin cold here, with an extra shot of Tam Valley fog to make me dreary.

I've quite enjoyed debating with you today, in fact. It's good to have an exchange that doesn't involve trolls or reactionaries. You are very reasonable, even if we disagree on some things.

520   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 1:48pm  

Like I said... more people today still buy more Japanese products. All because its cheaper. You asked and I gave you answer many today dont want to hear.
Yet many of us WHO HAVE worked in SV know the facts.

521   Malcolm   2007 Apr 18, 1:49pm  

Sorry to hear it. I've enjoyed our discussions. This is one of those few places that people have heated discussions and maintain their decency.

522   Malcolm   2007 Apr 18, 1:50pm  

I'm calling it a day anyway. You guys all have a good night.

523   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 1:52pm  

TOS you failing to recall how many US companies were wipped out in 1990.
Nearly 90% died out. You ask about the next thing. Chances of Next Big Thing is unknown and not factored in the housing prices. There may not be the next big thing... we are nearly 7 years out since 2000. OK where is it?

524   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 1:53pm  

TOS said "You don’t known."

Read up on the Asian Tigers... go to Wiki

525   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 1:58pm  

TOS talks about "higher educational systems"

Come on TOS who wants to be a GEEK and Nerd
A freaking Loser -- Goober who does not get laid.

Its easy to learn SW programming. Asia and Europe has
lots of educational system too. Much of atomic theory came
from Austrian schools. Today Europe dominates biotech.
Its alll about Global Competition.... You asked about Detroit
and I gave you facts.

526   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 2:01pm  

TOS, Im an accountant for the past 15 years.
I know about Mfg and SW industry.
You can forget about currency manipulation thats all meaningless.
Thats not how business is being done. It has no impact at all.
Companies dont rewrite price lists every 30 seconds because
the dollar is strong or weak. It not done that way.

527   FormerAptBroker   2007 Apr 18, 2:05pm  

Randy H Says:

> currently, the patent system is 99% broken,
> in my opinion.

I agree…

Then Different Sean Says:

> Just before Christmas Microsoft was granted
> a patent for online bill payment

And bruceb Says:

> if people who know where bathrooms and kitchens
> are located when walking clients thru a home want
> to call themselves professionals, its not a big deal.

Since the patent system has problems I might as well try and make some money off it.

Maybe I can patent “e-mailing photos of cars” or even “walking to the bathroom” (just think of the royalties)…

528   FormerAptBroker   2007 Apr 18, 2:11pm  

Randy H Says:

> Delineating quoted materials is very important in a
> forum like this. You can do it like TOS does, just using ‘—’.

It’s also nice to mention the author (or source) of the quote… I often get confused reading posts from TOS (and other confused posters) who just quote the “time” of a quote…

529   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 2:30pm  

"What is important is the next big thing… i.e. it is all about adaptation and at this game the US is the absolute leader in my humble opinion…"

No ... forget about it... we want specifics.. what is the next big thing?
Again your failing to understand what global competition is!

The next big thing may be in Asia or Montana or Switerland. There is no longer a monopoly in SV on innovation. Thats been proved time and time again. Microsoft, AOL, IBM, Redhat, DEC, Lotus were not SV companies.

Im not bashing our nation, but everyone up to CEOs of corporations are not idiot cheerleaders. Business in the valley turns on a dime.

530   OO   2007 Apr 18, 2:44pm  

Space Ace,

you cannot force the next big thing, nobody can force it. But one thing is for sure, the next big thing will only come out of a country with the following characteristics:
1) Freedom of thinking and expression
2) Solid education for the top 10% population, and acceptable quality for the rest
3) Good legal system so everyone's interest is appropriately guarded. Relatively low corruption.
4) Land with good with weather and free of pollution

You may laugh at 4), but if you are a top talent who is sought after by job opportunities rather than the other way around, you would want to live in a place conducive to a long, healthy life.

I predict the countries of choice to be USA, Japan, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, UK, France and Germany. It is extremely unlikely that any country outside the above mentioned will come up with the next big thing. None of these countries are cheap. Cost is not the main issue in innovation, creativity is. And creativity usually comes with a high cost.

531   StuckInBA   2007 Apr 18, 2:47pm  

Oh my. This is the second time in 2 days that I agree with TOS.

It's a common tendency on housing blogs to write off US. I completely disagree. US dominance may diminish, it will go through economic pain and standard of living may go down. But it will still remain the biggest economic powerhouse for the foreseeable future. Europe / Japan / Australia / Canada / China / India / Whatever will not replace it so soon.

The global economy is nothing but amazingly myriad feedback loops. It will oscillate constantly and will forever be in a changing equilibrium. (I am trying to be poetic here.)

Even declining US$ will be both good and bad.

I am betting my money on it.

532   OO   2007 Apr 18, 2:54pm  

One thing that makes me feel good about America when watching shows like Property Ladder is, people are willing to get their hands dirty to make things happen.

I know it sounds almost comical, how can I feel good about idiot amateur flippers who have absolutely no idea of what they are doing? I do feel awful about that. But whenever I see some flipper trying very hard to learn to do certain things to make the schedule, I feel good.

This is a quality quite unique to Americans, or people groomed under western education system that fosters DIY. In eastern Asian culture, for example, people are divided into several camps fairly early, the scholars (those who score As throughout their schools and become well-paid professional), the mass, and the laborers. Except for the laborers, nobody in the society is willing to get his hands dirty. None of my classmates or friends in China or Hong Kong know anything about items displayed in hardware stores, because they believe this is beneath them. You are taught from childhood that such task is reserved for the laborers and maids, your time is too precious to be spent on fixing your own home or your own car.

You see much less of such an attitude here. Regardless of their income, class or background, when something needs to get done, you just do it. This makes me more hopeful about the country.

533   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 2:56pm  

SP got it right ... also the local business will be happy with pressure off spending and focus investing into important R&D projects...
Folks money doesnt grow on trees for business. Money sucked out for high employee costs could be better spent on future needs.

OO-

1) Freedom of thinking and expression --- see Sputnick
2) Solid education for the top 10% population, and acceptable quality for the rest --- Steve Jobs and the Woz were C city students.
3) Good legal system so everyone’s interest is appropriately guarded. Relatively low corruption.... Lets get back to Microsoft monoply and shady business practice to drive out competition.
4) Land with good with weather and free of pollution
Excuse me... what good is that when you dont have funding.

You should always bear in mind .. .never underestimate the next guy...
and we did lots of that and lost many markets. Thats bad...

I personally know of few VCs .. and will say what they tell me ...
"What can be done has been done".... we are passing into mature phase of markets.. Competition and Low cost structures are the future if you wish future growth.

534   StuckInBA   2007 Apr 18, 2:59pm  

Anyone watching Asian markets ?
http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=asia

These things turn on a dime. One day up to sky, another day a sea of red. Fun stuff.

535   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 3:02pm  

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EHSI&t=2y

never underestimate the next guy...

536   OO   2007 Apr 18, 3:03pm  

Space Ace,

VCs don't spur the next innovation, people do. I happen to know one of the "next guy", China, inside out. I was an expat there and have lots of connections in China. Most of the highly connected insiders vote by feet by acquiring American passports for the entire family, or sending their kids overseas, and make sure they don't return until they become foreign citizens.

When the worldwide recession hits, a lot of the glamor of these developing countries will just fade away. In the last one and half century, only ONE country in the world made it from the developing camp to the developed camp, Japan. There is a reason why many developing countries remained developing for the last one and half century, and likely will remain so for the next one and half century.

US is not perfect, it is just closer to being perfect than a lot of other countries on earth. For every single criticism you come up about the US, I can cite the same and much more for Japan, China, Australia, etc., places that I know about, but I am just too lazy to elaborate.

537   OO   2007 Apr 18, 3:07pm  

Space Ace,

I feel that you should take a job in one of the "next guys" and try it out for yourself before extolling them to the sky. They are not what they seem.

538   astrid   2007 Apr 18, 3:07pm  

Ugh, somebody put up a new thread please.

539   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 3:09pm  

“next guys”

Since 1991 I been in startups.. 2 IPOs 1 in registration and moving on to my 4th I hope next month.

:)

540   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 3:12pm  

Here is something to ponder on...Goodnite...

Silicon Valley leaders to lobby lawmakers
Survey says housing prices, red tape threaten economy

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/04/22/BUG41CCUCL1.DTL

541   DaBoss   2007 Apr 18, 3:15pm  

The Silicon Valley Leadership Group will warn legislators that high home prices and government red tape top the list of threats to the region's high- tech economy. Members of the organization, formerly called the Silicon Valley Manufacturers Group, include 190 firms that collectively employ 250,000 people in the region.

A recent survey of its members ranked the top five business challenges facing Silicon Valley firms as home prices, business regulations, workers' compensation costs, health care expenses and the cost of worker retention. The results will be discussed at a summit Monday at Adobe Systems in San Jose.

At a time when the high cost of housing, labor and just about everything else are being blamed for driving jobs out of Silicon Valley, the survey said one-third of the companies in the sample exported local jobs in 2004. No figures were put on the losses, nor did the survey specify where those jobs went.

Based on anecdotal reports from members, however, Leadership Group President Carl Guardino said most of them were lost to other states, not other nations. "That means we can compete for them if we make the right public policy choices,'' he said.

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