patrick.net

condohelp,

You're thinking about the cost of renting it out incorrectly. Right now you owe X per month in your mortgage HOA and taxes. If you rent out your current place and also rent out a larger home for yourself the only added expenses are the loss of the mortgage interest deduction (after some number of years) and the DIFFERENCE between what you can get on your condo and the cost of your new rental.

So the relative loss versus continuing to live in the 1 bedroom is smaller than you may be thinking. If you sacrifice on commute a bit, you may be able to rent a 2-3 bedroom townhome for close to the same amount as renting out your condo.

Or you could invest $100k in time-machine technology and not buy anything in 2006.

There MAY be hope for those who refinanced and need to walk away:

http://www.car.org/newsstand/newsreleases/1178senatevote/

Senate approves SB 1178 extending anti-deficiency protection
For release:
Thursday, June 3, 2010

Victory for consumers as California Senate approves SB 1178 extending anti-deficiency protection

Measure protecting consumers from overreaching lenders now goes to Assembly

LOS ANGELES (June 3) – The California Senate this morning approved SB 1178 (D-Corbett) by a 30 to 4 vote, extending anti-deficiency protection for consumers who have refinanced their original mortgage loans and now are facing foreclosure. The CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® (C.A.R.) is the sponsor of the consumer protection legislation.

“Currently, if a homeowner defaults on a mortgage used to purchase his or her home -- known as a 'purchase money mortgage' -- the homeowner's liability on the mortgage is limited to the property itself,” said C.A.R. President Steve Goddard. “Unfortunately, the original law did not extend the purchase money protection to loans that refinance the original purchase debt, even if the refinance only was to obtain a lower interest rate. SB 1178 corrects this inequity and extends the same protections to consumers who refinance their home loans.

“Today’s vote was a victory for homeowners in California,” he said. “SB 1178 now moves to the Assembly for approval. C.A.R. is calling on our elected representatives to swiftly pass this much-needed legislation and send it to Gov. Schwarzenegger for signature.”

Leading the way…® in California real estate for more than 100 years, the CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® (www.car.org) is one of the largest state trade organizations in the United States with nearly 160,000 members dedicated to the advancement of professionalism in real estate. C.A.R. is headquartered in Los Angeles.

strategic default ... you'll save 150k which is about 7 years of savings from career. you may miss out on security clearance jobs (worst case scenario - may not be true), but you still find other work anyway.
Keep paying HOA, but stop paying 1st, second and property taxes and keep living there until house is sold at auction. Banks / collection company may come after you for the outstanding amount after foreclosure, but that would be negotiable if it happens.

E-man,

My husband is an engineer and may want to apply for a security clearance for a government job.

Aslo, does anyone know how long a foreclosure stays on your credit report. Does it ever actually leave the report? Thanks.

Tenouncetrot,

I don't know that many places that actually check credit ratings for work anymore. My main concern is if he applies for a security clearance.

People make mistakes everyday and you need to live with the consequences. What's new here???

Your husband made a mistake buying at the wrong time. So, he paid for it.

You made a mistake committed to this relation without knowing the whole picture of your husband (financial situation, decision making skill etc). So, you paid for it.

There are 3 advices I can give you:
1. "Think before act"
2. "Don't let fear or greed drive your decision"
3. "Face the brutal reality" The reality is: You & your husband are financially screwed. Live with this fact and move on from here

condohelp,

Don't assume walking away will keep you from getting (or losing) a security clearance. Find out! Ask around! Maybe you can even hire an expert who used to do such profiling for the government for some insight on it.

Don't give up so easily.

Condohelp.

Before your hubby got confirmed in government position, he will be required to provide them some info not only his, but families on both sides. It's usual history, background and status stuff. Tideous, nothing to worry about unless it related to certain type of criminal activities, or few countries tied to terrorism or war with US.

His, sometimes your, financial, criminal or drug related record matters. They see it as irresponsibility or lack of willingness, and thus, that could be a reason getting denied in certain positions. They do check background from time to time on their employees.

Here's a link you want to read.

http://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/60321.htm#f

Foreclosure record usually stays 7 years on credit reports, you can start build credit and can get a loan within 2 years though.

masayako6412 says

People make mistakes everyday and you need to live with the consequences. What’s new here???
Your husband made a mistake buying at the wrong time. So, he paid for it.
You made a mistake committed to this relation without knowing the whole picture of your husband (financial situation, decision making skill etc). So, you paid for it.
There are 3 advices I can give you:

1. “Think before act”

2. “Don’t let fear or greed drive your decision”

3. “Face the brutal reality” The reality is: You & your husband are financially screwed. Live with this fact and move on from here

Post like this get old! I'm asking for advice not for someone to tell me that "I'm screwed". Also, I was 22 when I moved in with my boyfriend, now my husband, and very in love, the housing market was not a thought in my mind. He bought because he thought renting was a waist of money and he did not expect to "cash in" like others have assumed. Trying to figure out a way out of our situation is not about greed! I can't handle having no space for cooking, for putting things away, for keeping our wedding gifts, for inviting others over, and to soon have children. Is it really greedy for us to want to move on with our lives????

I think responses like this are born from disgruntled individuals who have imperfect lives!

seaside says

Condohelp.
Before your hubby got confirmed in government position, he will be required to provide them some info not only his, but families on both sides. It’s usual history, background and status stuff. Tideous, nothing to worry about unless it related to certain type of criminal activities, or few countries tied to terrorism or war with US.
His, sometimes your, financial, criminal or drug related record matters. They see it as irresponsibility or lack of willingness, and thus, that could be a reason getting denied in certain positions. They do check background from time to time on their employees.
Here’s a link you want to read.
http://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/60321.htm#f
Foreclosure record usually stays 7 years on credit reports, you can start build credit and can get a loan within 2 years though.

Thank you!

Condohelp says

masayako6412 says

People make mistakes everyday and you need to live with the consequences. What’s new here???

Your husband made a mistake buying at the wrong time. So, he paid for it.

You made a mistake committed to this relation without knowing the whole picture of your husband (financial situation, decision making skill etc). So, you paid for it.

There are 3 advices I can give you:
1. “Think before act”
2. “Don’t let fear or greed drive your decision”
3. “Face the brutal reality” The reality is: You & your husband are financially screwed. Live with this fact and move on from here

Post like this get old! I’m asking for advice not for someone to tell me that “I’m screwed”. Also, I was 22 when I moved in with my boyfriend, now my husband, and very in love, the housing market was not a thought in my mind. He bought because he thought renting was a waist of money and he did not expect to “cash in” like others have assumed. Trying to figure out a way out of our situation is not about greed! I can’t handle having no space for cooking, for putting things away, for keeping our wedding gifts, for inviting others over, and to soon have children. Is it really greedy for us to want to move on with our lives????
I think responses like this are born from disgruntled individuals who have imperfect lives!

Yet you are the one who asked for the advice. Have you considered the fact that posts like yours get old? How many people just like you do the rest of us have to hear from every day??? Oh, housing was never a thought in my mind. I was in love. I just thought it would all work out? Do you realize how you sound?? Perhaps what you need to take away from your request for help is that "you are screwed." Sorry but sympathy only goes so far. Since you don't seem all the worked up about it, why don't you just learn to live in the space you have. Love your husband. Have a child. Accept reality and live your life. The rest of us don't want to bail you and legions of automatons out. Pay your own way...figure it out...time to take action. You got a lot of great feed back. Time to do sometime condo.

hooch_raider says

Condohelp says

masayako6412 says

People make mistakes everyday and you need to live with the consequences. What’s new here???
Your husband made a mistake buying at the wrong time. So, he paid for it.
You made a mistake committed to this relation without knowing the whole picture of your husband (financial situation, decision making skill etc). So, you paid for it.
There are 3 advices I can give you:

1. “Think before act”

2. “Don’t let fear or greed drive your decision”

3. “Face the brutal reality” The reality is: You & your husband are financially screwed. Live with this fact and move on from here

Post like this get old! I’m asking for advice not for someone to tell me that “I’m screwed”. Also, I was 22 when I moved in with my boyfriend, now my husband, and very in love, the housing market was not a thought in my mind. He bought because he thought renting was a waist of money and he did not expect to “cash in” like others have assumed. Trying to figure out a way out of our situation is not about greed! I can’t handle having no space for cooking, for putting things away, for keeping our wedding gifts, for inviting others over, and to soon have children. Is it really greedy for us to want to move on with our lives????

I think responses like this are born from disgruntled individuals who have imperfect lives!

Yet you are the one who asked for the advice. Have you considered the fact that posts like yours get old? How many people just like you do the rest of us have to hear from every day??? Oh, housing was never a thought in my mind. I was in love. I just thought it would all work out? Do you realize how you sound?? Perhaps what you need to take away from your request for help is that “you are screwed.” Sorry but sympathy only goes so far. Since you don’t seem all the worked up about it, why don’t you just learn to live in the space you have. Love your husband. Have a child. Accept reality and live your life. The rest of us don’t want to bail you and legions of automatons out. Pay your own way…figure it out…time to take action. You got a lot of great feed back. Time to do sometime condo.

I just posted this a little over a week ago...in response to: "Time to do sometime condo." First off, learn to spell! Second, we need to consider all of our options before we make a decision! If posts like mine get tired then don't read them! I'm reading my responses so that I can find helpful suggestions. The rest of what you have written does not deserve a response.

mail the keys to the bank and go rent something-----------that was easy

E-man says

@ Condohelp,
I still owe you a response. In my opinion, you have plenty of options. It just takes some planning. First, I would talk to an attorney who knows how to remove the short-sale/foreclosure off of your credit report. I believe it would cost around $1,000. Yes, it can be done. Let me know if you need some attorney contact info. Due your due diligence first please.
Here is one of the options. I’d divorce the husband on paper. Not in real life of course. This way, his credit doesn’t impact your buying power. Have your own bank account and direct deposits on this account. Buy another place on your own salary or maybe with your or his parents/brother(s) or sister(s) as co-signers. Then you guys can decide to do whatever with this condo afterward. It is my understanding that the attorney could remove the foreclosure off of your husband’s credit report permanently. This would be a non-issue in terms of security clearance later on. However, I would consult with an attorney first to ensure that’s the case.
Good luck.

Hi E-man,

Thanks for the advice. We are finally meeting with our accountant tomorrow morning to discuss possible write offs for a loss if we make this a rental. If we do decide to go the foreclosure rout or short sale (which we don't currently qualify for), and at this point it's doubtful we'll foreclose, I will need to contact an re attorney. I'm wondering if I should contact one soon anyway to see if they could help us ask the bank for a short sale.

As far as divorce goes I'm extremely uncomfortable with that, and I know my husband would be too. Even if we did that I wouldn't qualify for a home loan on my salary anyway since I earn a beginning teachers salary. I also wouldn't want to ask anyone for help, especially since both sets of our parents have their own financial burdens to worry about.

Condohelp,

The accountant is probably not a security clearance expert. Find out from someone who knows about such matters, if strategic default will prevent you from getting your clearance. Betcha it won't. I know people who made all kinds of mistakes get and keep clearances when I worked in the defense industry.

I knew people with clearances, even high ones, who lived together out of wedlock, even had kids in such an arrangement, others with alternative lifestyles. No big deal.

But a sham divorce in order to game the system like E-man told you to do, might jeopardize your clearance more than being open and transparent about dealing with a mistake by walking away. Before you take E-man's advice on such an important matter, find out!

Hmmm... I heard something like what E-man said before, but not sure if it's possible or not since I never placed myself in that position. So, condohelp, you'd better check it out first before follow the advice. And, yes, it is shame to do that on financial purpose.

The basic rule here is,

- No one can change accurate facts in credit report.
- But it is perfectly legal to challenge something as inaccurate or incomplete.
- Your attorney will file a petition to remove inaccurate record, and will argue it is either inaccurate or resulted by change of situation.
- Resourceful attorney or an attorney who got lots of friends can set something up for you, because
- When they can't verify what happened by whom, they have to remove the record.

I guess attorny has few tricks, and in order it to work, it should be planned or at least monitored. Attorney can make differences though, beware of crooks that want your money. You need to find out yourself. Well, that's my thought.

Does anyone know how a died in lui will affect credit and again a security clearance??? Our CPA advised us to try and work something out with the bank versus simply foreclosing.

Condohelp,

http://usmilitary.about.com/bio/Rod-Powers-6341.htm

This guy has posted some info on getting clearances. As I figg'rd, honest and transparent financial dings on your record that are from honest mistakes don't look too serious. On the other hand, while a sham divorce is not explicity mentioned in his web site, the language on considerations for denying a clearance suggests that gaming the system with deliberate deception like the sham divorce that E-man advises you to do appears to be more serious.

Maybe you can track this guy down and hire him for an hour or so of consulting, ask him the "what if's".

You can read what he says about financial considerations here:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/l/blsecfinance.htm

When I worked in defense, I didn't have a clearance, but I didn't need one for that job. Lots of folks in the department had them, so they could do more work. Someone else didn't have a clearance because the application was denied. It was a big Scarlet Letter"D" for that individual. Not having a clearance was not too bad because if the opportunity came I could always have it applied for. But having a denial was career suicide for that other person.

Like E-man said you can always make more money some time again in the future, but unlike E-man says it could be harder to earn back the reputation in defense industry if you're denied a clearance going with E-man's Advice of Gaming The System with a Sham Divorce.

Check out the information about this guy on his web site:

Condohelp says

Hi Troy,
I do think that renting may be our only option at this point, I just hope that it won’t be for years. I also worry that rents may fall, as they already have.
Thanks.

I don't think I can add too much that hasn't already been said.
I'd just point out a few things:
1. If you choose to rent out your place, I would recommend renting instead of buying another place. If you rent out your current place and buy another place, you are essentially making a bullish bet on the housing market. This is a mistake that many people are doing in a similar situation to you.
If prices come down further, you're doubly screwed, on your old condo and any new place you buy. However, if you rent a new place and prices come down, while you're screwed more on the condo, at least you're insulated with your rental. Likewise, if there's some magic fairy that brings us back to 2006 and you rent, you'll lose on the house your rent but will do well with the condo you are renting out/held onto.
2. I think you need to accept you are down 150k on the place; it is just whether you pay it down now (by selling) or later (by continuing to make the payments). If a realtor says 200k is the ceiling and it will take a year, he really means 150k. Since I am guessing you have at least 50k paid off, that means you'll have to shell out 100k out of pocket. Anyways, people lose 150k all the time in bad investments...it just kind of happens.
Any area outside of midtown Manhattan where 670 sq foot condos were going for $300k sounds insanely bubbly to me. Like, -70% type bubbly. Given it's not that far down, I do think you are in an area that could go down further, so my advice is to not rent out your place and buy a new place. Any new place you move into should be a rental.

Ptipking222 says

Condohelp says

Hi Troy,
I do think that renting may be our only option at this point, I just hope that it won’t be for years. I also worry that rents may fall, as they already have.
Thanks.

I don’t think I can add too much that hasn’t already been said.
I’d just point out a few things:
1. If you choose to rent out your place, I would recommend renting instead of buying another place. If you rent out your current place and buy another place, you are essentially making a bullish bet on the housing market. This is a mistake that many people are doing in a similar situation to you.
If prices come down further, you’re doubly screwed, on your old condo and any new place you buy. However, if you rent a new place and prices come down, while you’re screwed more on the condo, at least you’re insulated with your rental. Likewise, if there’s some magic fairy that brings us back to 2006 and you rent, you’ll lose on the house your rent but will do well with the condo you are renting out/held onto.
2. I think you need to accept you are down 150k on the place; it is just whether you pay it down now (by selling) or later (by continuing to make the payments). If a realtor says 200k is the ceiling and it will take a year, he really means 150k. Since I am guessing you have at least 50k paid off, that means you’ll have to shell out 100k out of pocket. Anyways, people lose 150k all the time in bad investments…it just kind of happens.
Any area outside of midtown Manhattan where 670 sq foot condos were going for $300k sounds insanely bubbly to me. Like, -70% type bubbly. Given it’s not that far down, I do think you are in an area that could go down further, so my advice is to not rent out your place and buy a new place. Any new place you move into should be a rental.

Thanks for te Advice! No we won't be buying for at least 5 years 1) because I am pretty sure we are going to do a deed in lieu of foreclosure which will negatively impact our credit score. 2) We also think home prices will decrease in that time. 3) We might be planning to move out of state and don't want to be tied down to a home. 4) We need to let the gross feeling of owning a home wash off before we ever do this again.

We don't have 50 grand paid off because we had an interest only loan until last year. We will lose over 150k if we wait a year to sell. Keeping the property and renting will cost us $18k a month according to our financial advisor and we can't write off a dime due to our income level. That's a lot of cash to lose for a god knows how long period of time!!

sybrib says

Condohelp,
http://usmilitary.about.com/bio/Rod-Powers-6341.htm
This guy has posted some info on getting clearances. As I figg’rd, honest and transparent financial dings on your record that are from honest mistakes don’t look too serious. On the other hand, while a sham divorce is not explicity mentioned in his web site, the language on considerations for denying a clearance suggests that gaming the system with deliberate deception like the sham divorce that E-man advises you to do appears to be more serious.
Maybe you can track this guy down and hire him for an hour or so of consulting, ask him the “what if’s”.
You can read what he says about financial considerations here:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/l/blsecfinance.htm
When I worked in defense, I didn’t have a clearance, but I didn’t need one for that job. Lots of folks in the department had them, so they could do more work. Someone else didn’t have a clearance because the application was denied. It was a big Scarlet Letter”D” for that individual. Not having a clearance was not too bad because if the opportunity came I could always have it applied for. But having a denial was career suicide for that other person.
Like E-man said you can always make more money some time again in the future, but unlike E-man says it could be harder to earn back the reputation in defense industry if you’re denied a clearance going with E-man’s Advice of Gaming The System with a Sham Divorce.
Check out the information about this guy on his web site:

Hi E-man,

No we won't divorce!!! That's kind of silly. We plan to be upfront with the bank and let them know we are walking if they don't negotiate. My husband does not want to work in the military rather for the defense department at some point in the future. Anyway he hasn't decided on this firmly yet and is still happily working at his current job.

We will probably need an RE attorney though.

Also, does anyone know if "you walk away" is a good service to go with or are we better off getting an attorney or doing it on our own? As far as the deed in lieu goes. However, if we can't get the bank to work with us we will foreclose.

Just keep in mind that if you refinance, you will not be able to simply walk away - ever.

You know that I am in a similar situation and we are walking away in 3-4 months (prices will likely be down then and we plan to buy a home, then foreclose)

Condohelp says

Ptipking222 says

Condohelp says

Hi Troy,

I do think that renting may be our only option at this point, I just hope that it won’t be for years. I also worry that rents may fall, as they already have.

Thanks.

I don’t think I can add too much that hasn’t already been said.

I’d just point out a few things:

1. If you choose to rent out your place, I would recommend renting instead of buying another place. If you rent out your current place and buy another place, you are essentially making a bullish bet on the housing market. This is a mistake that many people are doing in a similar situation to you.

If prices come down further, you’re doubly screwed, on your old condo and any new place you buy. However, if you rent a new place and prices come down, while you’re screwed more on the condo, at least you’re insulated with your rental. Likewise, if there’s some magic fairy that brings us back to 2006 and you rent, you’ll lose on the house your rent but will do well with the condo you are renting out/held onto.

2. I think you need to accept you are down 150k on the place; it is just whether you pay it down now (by selling) or later (by continuing to make the payments). If a realtor says 200k is the ceiling and it will take a year, he really means 150k. Since I am guessing you have at least 50k paid off, that means you’ll have to shell out 100k out of pocket. Anyways, people lose 150k all the time in bad investments…it just kind of happens.

Any area outside of midtown Manhattan where 670 sq foot condos were going for $300k sounds insanely bubbly to me. Like, -70% type bubbly. Given it’s not that far down, I do think you are in an area that could go down further, so my advice is to not rent out your place and buy a new place. Any new place you move into should be a rental.

Thanks for te Advice! No we won’t be buying for at least 5 years 1) because I am pretty sure we are going to do a deed in lieu of foreclosure which will negatively impact our credit score. 2) We also think home prices will decrease in that time. 3) We might be planning to move out of state and don’t want to be tied down to a home. 4) We need to let the gross feeling of owning a home wash off before we ever do this again.
We don’t have 50 grand paid off because we had an interest only loan until last year. We will lose over 150k if we wait a year to sell. Keeping the property and renting will cost us $18k a month according to our financial advisor and we can’t write off a dime due to our income level. That’s a lot of cash to lose for a god knows how long period of time!!

To Condohelp : This is good for you to get all the financial facts and see how they play out. Your financial adviser can help you with all the math. But whatever you do, dont get a divorce "on paper". That has got to be the worst advice - California is a no fault state. Half of his gold is yours and half of his liabulities are yours - even though it is in his name. that wont help you.

Nomograph says

Misstrial says

The government cannot be having employees who could be vulnerable to bribery, blackmail or espionage.

That’s what politicians are for.

LOL - too bad we dont have a quote-of-the-day award. You got my vote

He'd also win the overall.

Well misstrial you sound authoritative and sincere in your post, you get my vote too.

As this is only a blog it might be worthwhile for someone at decision point with life-long consequences to verify what you say from someone more accountable than a pseudonym on the web.

I have a question for you about it: I have been hearing lots of stuff in the news media about active military, particularly those in reserve units and guard duty, being financially strapped. I even have personal knowledge of a few such situations.

How do you suppose such stringent financial requirements like for the Lt you know are going to square with the staffing requirements of the all volunteer military? It sounds like an unstoppable force (the deflation, the tenuous financial situation of so many people) and an immovable object (financial requirements for volunteer military).

marko says

Condohelp says

Ptipking222 says

Condohelp says

Hi Troy,
I do think that renting may be our only option at this point, I just hope that it won’t be for years. I also worry that rents may fall, as they already have.
Thanks.

I don’t think I can add too much that hasn’t already been said.
I’d just point out a few things:
1. If you choose to rent out your place, I would recommend renting instead of buying another place. If you rent out your current place and buy another place, you are essentially making a bullish bet on the housing market. This is a mistake that many people are doing in a similar situation to you.
If prices come down further, you’re doubly screwed, on your old condo and any new place you buy. However, if you rent a new place and prices come down, while you’re screwed more on the condo, at least you’re insulated with your rental. Likewise, if there’s some magic fairy that brings us back to 2006 and you rent, you’ll lose on the house your rent but will do well with the condo you are renting out/held onto.
2. I think you need to accept you are down 150k on the place; it is just whether you pay it down now (by selling) or later (by continuing to make the payments). If a realtor says 200k is the ceiling and it will take a year, he really means 150k. Since I am guessing you have at least 50k paid off, that means you’ll have to shell out 100k out of pocket. Anyways, people lose 150k all the time in bad investments…it just kind of happens.
Any area outside of midtown Manhattan where 670 sq foot condos were going for $300k sounds insanely bubbly to me. Like, -70% type bubbly. Given it’s not that far down, I do think you are in an area that could go down further, so my advice is to not rent out your place and buy a new place. Any new place you move into should be a rental.

Thanks for te Advice! No we won’t be buying for at least 5 years 1) because I am pretty sure we are going to do a deed in lieu of foreclosure which will negatively impact our credit score. 2) We also think home prices will decrease in that time. 3) We might be planning to move out of state and don’t want to be tied down to a home. 4) We need to let the gross feeling of owning a home wash off before we ever do this again.

We don’t have 50 grand paid off because we had an interest only loan until last year. We will lose over 150k if we wait a year to sell. Keeping the property and renting will cost us $18k a month according to our financial advisor and we can’t write off a dime due to our income level. That’s a lot of cash to lose for a god knows how long period of time!!

To Condohelp : This is good for you to get all the financial facts and see how they play out. Your financial adviser can help you with all the math. But whatever you do, dont get a divorce “on paper”. That has got to be the worst advice - California is a no fault state. Half of his gold is yours and half of his liabulities are yours - even though it is in his name. that wont help you.

No no no, we aren't getting a divorce!!!! I don't know who started that thread, but that was never ever going to happen!!!

E-man says

@ Condohelp,
Here is one of the options. I’d divorce the husband on paper. Not in real life of course. This way, his credit doesn’t impact your buying power. Have your own bank account and direct deposits on this account. Buy another place on your own salary or maybe with your or his parents/brother(s) or sister(s) as co-signers. Then you guys can decide to do whatever with this condo afterward. It is my understanding that the attorney could remove the foreclosure off of your husband’s credit report permanently. This would be a non-issue in terms of security clearance later on. However, I would consult with an attorney first to ensure that’s the case.

It was E-man's advice. He suggested that a sham divorce in order to game the system would not be an issue for getting a clearance. I remember when I worked in the biz, as misstrial wrote someone who gets in financial trouble is required to report it to the security person in his/her department. Not only that, employees were actually obliged to report knowledge of such facts about their colleagues, which kind of reminds me of stories about the East German Stazi. But E-man's sage and authoritative advice about gaming the system with a sham divorce is a deception that as misstrial said, they will find out about.

So for all those who may be just reading this and not commenting and who may have considered a strategic divorce in order to clear your records: Absolutely not

Why not? Divorce first, then foreclosure. Only the title holder will hurt.

Misstrial,

when I worked in that business I had a boss with very high clearances. His generic employee ID badge said "1" ("top secret" which is the highest clearance they put on the badges then) but he had clearances for various programs that may not even been acknowledged to exist.

He was a senior manager with regular alimony payments to two ex's, child support to the second ex, various other debts related to those divorces. He was co-habitating with an administrative assistant lady that worked in the same department, and because of all his expenses they had to live in a situation that some might describe as homeless. There was nothing hidden about his/her situation but he was able to keep all those clearances and may have got more while I worked for him.

Doesn't seem fair that someone like that can have a gravy train ride of a job at a contractor while some poor Lt who made an ill-timed decision about when to buy his house gets discharged.

It was in the 1980's.

MIsstrial,

I understand you are the messenger, not the author of the policy.

It is time to make some changes. For instance, an all time hero of defense funding, Ronald Reagan, was a divorcee.

Another thing, there's a big disconnect between the stringent financial aspect of clearances and need for boots on the ground in places like Afghanistan, a volunteer military, a shrinking middle class, an aging population, the rank and file military who are financially stressed, particularly true for folks in reserve and guard units that keep getting called up, forfeiting the pay from their civilian jobs, leaving spouses behind to cope with the bills and sudden need for (expensive) child care.

Moreover, there's no good reason in the interest of our national security highly qualified, motivated, expensively trained people should have been kicked out of the language school because of what they did in their private lives.

What is wrong with divorce?

You can have affair with a terrorist even you have a wife.

I know trustworthy divorcees, don't you?

Trustworthy gays, trustworthy people who made mistakes financial and otherwise, admitted to them, learned from them, moved on from them, don't you know someone like that? Trustworthy folks who had a string of bad luck? Trustworthy people who represent the diversity of our country.

Kick them out of the military, deny them employment in defense and energy contractors?

Didn't Robert Hansen have a "clean" background?

@Condohelp

You say you are a teacher but your spelling and grammar mistakes are frequent and obvious. Are you being straightforward with us ? Is this a genuine request for help?

Dear Danville woman, I am not a teacher. I earn a teachers sallary because I work for a school district. I am not going to post my profession to keep my identity private. I have a masters degree. Just because my grammar and spelling are poor at times does not make me stupid. I'm not reading all of this over constantly every time I post.

Slightly offended btw!

btw no spell check or grammar button on here like a word doc!

Also Danville, why would I post with such elaborate detail if I were making up such a story???

I don't know if anyone is reading anymore, but we are finally almost out of this mess. We negotiated with the bank for a short sale. We have a buyer and will hopefully be moving soon! I'm so thrilled!

What reason did you give the bank for a short sale??