patrick.net

Apartments might require another strategy, because they're usually a little more disconnected and realize that the cost of moving prohibits many from moving and puts an obstacle big enough that saving $X isn't worth it to move.

I'm heading towards one of these conversations, so help here would be appreciated as well :)

There are a bunch of use cases that we should be able to come up with, that could really help others out.

the best way to find out is just to ask. If other landlords are like me they probably already know what the going rents are and how much demand there is for comparable rentals.

repo4sale - "Land deals averaged 49.22% a month from 1999 to 2008!" Post that era, we are facing the inability of developers to finance the grandiose developments of that period. Maybe it will turn around after 2015 as you have said in other posts, but check out #9 of this article from last year. It usually takes 2 generations to ignore the errors of the past, so I reckon the big land boom that made you rich won't be happening again in our lifetimes.

I did something very similar a year ago however I focused on the 20 best comparables I could find rather than try to overwhelm the guy. I though that was plenty make the point without being an ass about it. Craigslist is a great source as you can cut and paste with pictures.

I talked my way into a 5% drop for a nice two bedroom house in Pasadena CA. It was less than I could be getting elsewhere but enough of a bone my direction to convince me not to move (figured that headache was worth a couple grand to avoid and I'm hoping to be shopping in 2012 anyways at the end of the mortgage reset wave).

ask the other tenants, especially new ones , what they are paying. I did this and negotiated $150 off my rent plus an extra parking stall.

That's certainly the most polite request letter I've ever seen, and it could be effective contingent on market circumstances. I think this is all contingent on where you live.

I own a few homes that I rent out in Las Vegas, which is the ultimate buyer's market and thus a landlord's market. Many of these are homes in what were nice neighborhoods in 2007, and are now declining because every other house on the block is in foreclosure and has a dead lawn.
But ex-homeowners still need shelter. A glut of foreclosed-upon properties means multiple people begging to rent my places. I can charge rent that covers the mortgage payments, however modestly, and expect perfect behavior from my tenants. You want to host a loud party and annoy the neighbors? This market isn't a prudent place to do that, when I can kick you out and find someone quiet who's willing to pay a premium for the privilege.

It is a very powerful letter especially if it is after September and before march.
A landlord will calculate that costs for repainting, carpet cleaning etc, along with one month or more of empty house may be less than the discounted rental.

Therefore, in the letter you may want to add that you will not request repainting carpet cleaning and so on, after lease expiration.

Or they may be able to call you on your bluff and then you'd have no place to live.

I also negotiated a rent reduction a few weeks ago. My letter was a little more aggressive than the one above.

Nice letter Patrick. Polite, respectful, yet very clear and direct about the hopeful outcome. The new rent suggestion is good also, instead of asking for simply a vague reduction.

Perhaps end it with adding a specified time frame in which the renter needs to hear back from the landlord: "Thank you for your consideration. I would appreciate a response by (August 31) so we may discuss this matter further". Or, "Kindly get back to me by (August 31) so I may move ahead with my planning. I look forward to hearing from you".

First I went out and actually filled out some applications so the landlord received phone calls for references. Hence the idea of reality!! After a short period I received a phone call from the landlord asking why I would look around locally for a new place. I told her that I could save 4k-5k a year with a little bit smaller place.( my current rent was 1500.00 a month) So with that said I received 100.00 a month reduction with a 1 year lease. I will simply do the same thing again until I save the 5k a year. Oh, and I am putting 100.00 a month in a moving expense coffee can.

We asked our landlord if we could have a 6% reduction in exchange for paying the rent in six-month blocks. I think the landlord accepted b/c a) it reduces risk we won't pay and b) it allowed him to pay off some debt a few months earlier.

One commenter said something about a renter finding himself with no place to live. I don't see a shortage of rentals, so I don't know what that's about. But that commenter did have one good point: when negotiating anything the most important thing is being prepared to walk away.

chinzo says

First I went out and actually filled out some applications so the landlord received phone calls for references. Hence the idea of reality!!

genious!

I am in a moderate sized apartment complex in Redwood city with about 50 units, which means roughly 1 unit a month is moved into. I'm assuming roughly 3 years per tenant, which equals about 16 move in's per year, or about a 1 per month.

The complex probably houses more problem tenants than most, but the onsite manager really keeps people in check. I am of course the ideal tenant, quiet, clean, no problems (other than a minor "uh..." when I tried to fly a new micro helicopter one night in the common grounds... but she was much nicer than my wife was about me trying to fly it inside...).

I did see a unit advertised in my building for $25 less than what I'm paying now, about 4 months ago. I suspect I won't be moving either way, and I'm only going to be trying to block a rental increase. My second guess is that this outfit works on "It's too expensive for most of our tenants to move, so $50/month extra is probably easier than coming up with a new damage deposit..." They apparently have multiple buildings, so it might be just a numbers game to them.

I'm still waiting to see what will happen. I'm hoping they give me 3 months notice. I moved in last November, so within a month or two, I suspect to see something.

I just took a quick look on craigslist, and apartments seem a little more spread out right now, probably up about $100 from last year in this area? At most! I noticed 1 place listed in my complex that is $75 more than mine, but probably one of the larger models I saw last year, and based on that, the price is probably the same that was quoted me last year.

As for your friend, 2800 vs 2200 seems pretty aggressive! But that is a house, and demand seems to outstrip supply in most cases. I'm guessing the stress of not renting has probably let up and landlords are more willing to wait for a better tenant, where as last year it seemed that every LL just wanted their places rented regardless of losses, because they didn't know what was going to happen.

I simply research my neighborhood, found the lowest comparable and print the ad for my landlord. went from $2400 to $2200. I tried asking for $2000, but with him having to pay hoa, he said no.

On the one hand, it sounds like you asked for too much, but on the other hand, renters should not pay HOA fees. He's the owner, not you.

If you can find a cheaper place elsewhere, it's time to move.

Just tell him/her you're special. Or wait untill rates are so high you can't afford to buy a place, then you'll feel lucky you're paying what you're paying.

cj says

One commenter said something about a renter finding himself with no place to live. I don’t see a shortage of rentals, so I don’t know what that’s about.

I think what he is saying is that when the market is bad, there are more foreclosures, and the people whose houses have been taken away have to rent, meaning the competition for rentals is higher. I've been seeing increases in rent, and fewer good properties for rent and as a serial renter, it's very frustrating.

EVERBODY thinks of themselves as a model tennant.
(It's the neighbors that are the problem.)

Never hurts to ask - but I would be willing to bet that for a large managed complex, your chances of success are slim, unless you have a true hardship.

Has anyone else been able to get a rent reduction in the last 5 months? How did you do it?

Like any business deal you negotiate it when you are willing to walk away, just don't be insulting or condescending (which usually causes people to not want to deal with you). Simply present them a deal, if they have empty apartments and you are willing to walk away than they will reduce the rate. It is a simple business transaction.

And moving expenses are pretty low. At least in LA any U-Haul place you walk up to there are illegals standing there waiting for work. ($100 will move your entire house, you can be more generous if you like)

ChrisLA says

Like any business deal you negotiate it when you are willing to walk away, just don’t be insulting or condescending (which usually causes people to not want to deal with you). Simply present them a deal, if they have empty apartments and you are willing to walk away than they will reduce the rate. It is a simple business transaction.
And moving expenses are pretty low. At least in LA any U-Haul place you walk up to there are illegals standing there waiting for work. ($100 will move your entire house, you can be more generous if you like)

Yes moving expenses are cheap in So Cal with the illegal alien helpers. Just make sure you save all the moving supplies (boxes, tapes...etc) to be ready for the next move

chinzo says

First I went out and actually filled out some applications so the landlord received phone calls for references

this is a great way also but more work. really works for the landlord who's not paying the mortgage , work a deal on his weak position. see folks both scams aren't illegal.
I love America!

I live in a luxury townhouse community in Florida. It was quite easy to ask for a rent reduction as the exact same models were going for less in rent, and the supply was there. I simply asked if I extended my lease a year longer could I have 100 off per month, and my wish was granted! I currently rent for apx $500-700 a month less than what the owners in this community pay for mortgage & hoa (the hoa is 500mo and going up). I think the key to getting a lowered rent is #1. to have comparables in a close vicinity #2. ask in terms of dollar amount (100 less per..) #3. have a fall back plan, move to a cheaper place, and right now that isn't really hard! It's a win win situation for renters!

More ideas please

Great letter! Approach is everything - and the letter is respectful, while precise as to request, and not overwhelming the landlord with too much info all at once. The real negotiating can take place later. Also, the importance of committing the request to writing and mailing is essential in my personal opinion. As for the rental situation where I live - once again, there are so many empty houses and vacancy signs for apartments everywhere - certainly deals can be made to ensure that the landlord (who pays hefty property taxes here and other fees) does not lose all income to keep the property afloat.

Indeed and agreed.

I am currently trying to find a client a rental house here in FL and they are all rented before we can even see them. I know. I know. The listing agents really just want to get the whole commission so they're lying to me.

This is a very polite letter. Unfortunately this would not work where I live.

My Landlord (God I hate saying that word) is a property management company for a large billion dollar corporation named Lyon Communities.
Knowing how business works in the corporate environment; my best guess feeling is Lyon Communities puts constant non-stop pressure on these people to increase profits. I can come up with no other explanation for the high turnover other than a typical corporate master who wants more, more and more. When you are making people feel like their jobs are at stake they take risks. And where I live I feel they don't seem to care of someone is a good long term tenant. They just want to raise your rent.

I've lived here 3 years. I’m a long term tenant with a flawless history and a high income. I've never been late or missed a single payment in my entire renting history. I also have never had any problems whatsoever.

Things I've tried to show them are:

1) Using basic common sense math to prove it's not worth raising my rent $200 at the end of every lease.
2) Showing it's more expensive to replace a tenant than keep a good one.
3) Showing that since I'm single (alone) it's only one more body in the building vs. couples and families.
4) Showing them other people’s prices for comparison.
5) Showing I require little to no maintenance requests.
6) Showing I am very clean and take care of the unit to the point of being a germaphobe.
7) Pointing out seasonal declines.

I really don’t get why they always raise my rent. I make a high income. I'm quiet. I always pay my rent on time. I stay long very term. I get along with all my neighbors etc.

The only real option is to move. Which I'm considering doing at the end of my lease. I know what others are paying. They charge everyone a different rate. I will not tolerate being taken advantage of.
The only thing is, moving is a pain. It's costly, time consuming, and you have to deal with the movers all day which, let's face it, are mostly criminals and low life’s. It's a very common job for someone out of prison. Moving is a pain and they know it.

You would think common sense and basic accounting would be enough. Not to mention the benefits of having good tenants in your building. Instead my building seems content with constantly raising rents and cleaning people out. The building is on the beach in LA. There are 18 floors and 216 units. I recognize 10 people (out of 216 units) after 3 years.

Any readers got suggestions for improvements on this letter?

In the first sentence, I might replace "you keep up the property very well" with something like "people get along well." Two reasons why:
1) Unless you are a building inspector with access to all of the building systems, you don't really know how well the property is kept up. If next month your ceiling collapses on you because of a previously undetected leak, you won't want to have said that the property was kept up very well.
2) Although flattery may get you somewhere, in fact from a landlord's perspective the larger concern is people who take good care of the property and don't cause problems. Most landlords don't want their properties to appear regularly on Cops or the evening news. Neighbor disputes can become incredibly destructive, including gunfire through structural elements. So, saying that people get along well is a way of praising the building while also saying you share the landlord's interest in people getting along amicably. If you are going to flatter the landlord, saying the landlord has chosen good tenants is a way of saying the landlord is a good judge of character; everybody likes to think they are a good judge of character.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Balance of terror makes for a durable peace.

The British say, "There is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing." I say there is no such thing as bad neighborhoods, only bad construction. Brick walls, thick acrylic windows, and an underground garage with steel doors are the best way to handle today's drive-by shootings. When you hear a rain of bullets bouncing off your ceramic roof, just think of it as another hailstorm.

ordertaker says

I am currently trying to find a client a rental house here in FL and they are all rented before we can even see them.

I find that VERY hard to believe.

But I have to say that's a great line for a commercial just add an over moused hairstyle and a fake smile and BANG!