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Islam and Violence


 invite response                
2007 Sep 11, 1:35am   611,504 views  2,865 comments

by resistance   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Originally from http://www.faithfreedom.org/

A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

Dear friends,

The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.

What the Qur'an Teaches Us:

We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.

Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.

We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

Arabic translation الترجمة العربية

See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.

Please copy this article, and distribute it as widely as possible, both online and physically. The future of humanity depends on it.

« First        Comments 2,150 - 2,189 of 2,865       Last »     Search these comments

2150   gabbar   2023 Oct 28, 12:19pm  

Waitup says

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3463094993955625?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz

Blame it on others (specially the victims) is a standard Mohammedan play card.
2152   Bd6r   2023 Oct 28, 5:50pm  

NuttBoxer says

If there's a dichotomy here I can get behind, it's pro-war vs anti-war. That's real, and definitely worth examining.

Do we have a single person on this site with a US flag(any US flag, or even State flag) on their profile? What does that say about gabber, and the rest of us...

I have TX flags inside and outside of my house, but I don’t want to put it up here. For some reason it would feel like desecration, no offense to other Patnetters. Besides trolling under TX flag does not seem right
2153   gabbar   2023 Oct 29, 12:14am  

Patrick says


https://twitter.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1717876030168318206



This is the directive that all slaves of Allah, irrespective of where they live or their university degrees, believe in. I have Muslim friends and they take this shit seriously.
2154   AD   2023 Oct 29, 12:22am  

gabbar says

This is the directive that all slaves of Allah, irrespective of where they live or their university degrees, believe in. I have Muslim friends and they take this shit seriously.


That is why the Jews do not want a 1 state solution. If they did have a 1 state solution, the Arab Muslims will kill off first the Ashkenazi Jews. They will kill off any resistance from Sephardi Jews. Then they will force into conversion the remaining Sephardi Jews to Islam as per jihad.

Jihad has been ongoing since around 800 AD as far as forced conversion to Islam.

Sounds like its a more violent and fanatical cult version of Scientology.

If there was no Islam, then would the Arab Muslims such as in Gaza be members of the Jewish faith ?

I always wondered what would happen if Islam never proliferated starting around 800 AD.

.
2155   gabbar   2023 Oct 29, 1:18am  

People have been consuming camel piss on the Arabian Peninsula for a long, long time. It’s been used by the Bedouin people as a shampoo and medicine for centuries, and it’s part of Muslim tradition as well; the Prophet Mohammed is said to have once told some of his sick followers to drink camel milk and pee “till their bodies became healthy. https://www.vice.com/en/article/4w7gvn/drinking-camel-urine-in-yemen-fob-000300-v20n8
2156   The_Deplorable   2023 Oct 29, 11:59am  

This is a stoning to death right? Why are they stoning this person?

gabbar says
"New meaning to a stone's throw. Allah ho akbar"
2157   RWSGFY   2023 Oct 29, 3:16pm  

Video footage apparently from the scene shows an angry crowd running in the airport in Makhachkala, shouting antisemitic slogans.

Some of the crowd run onto the runway and surround aircraft there.

Rosaviatsia added that the airport would be "provisionally closed" until 6 November.

Local media reported that some demonstrators were stopping cars outside Makhachkala's airport to check the ID papers of drivers and passengers as they searched for Israeli citizens.
2159   Bd6r   2023 Oct 29, 5:33pm  

Don’t you forget that Nazis are in Ukraine!!!
RWSGFY says

Video footage apparently from the scene shows an angry crowd running in the airport in Makhachkala, shouting antisemitic slogans.

Some of the crowd run onto the runway and surround aircraft there.

Rosaviatsia added that the airport would be "provisionally closed" until 6 November.

Local media reported that some demonstrators were stopping cars outside Makhachkala's airport to check the ID papers of drivers and passengers as they searched for Israeli citizens.

2160   Bd6r   2023 Oct 29, 5:48pm  

Looks like full scale anti Jewish pogroms in Russian Islamic republics:

https://nitter.cz/wartranslated/status/1718685450439647263#m

Legacy media has interesting descriptions of what is happening:

https://nitter.cz/AGHamilton29/status/1718729619057107423#m
2161   Blue   2023 Oct 29, 6:13pm  

The_Deplorable says

This is a stoning to death right? Why are they stoning this person?

Following their customs, look at https://patrick.net/post/511/2007-09-11-islam-and-violence?start=2089#comment-2001853
2162   RWSGFY   2023 Oct 29, 6:50pm  

In the past day, local people have besieged a hotel in search of Jewish guests and stormed the airport after reports emerged that a flight from Tel Aviv was arriving in the city. Passengers were forced to take refuge in planes or hide in the airport for fear of being attacked. Local health authorities said that 20 people had been injured, including two who were critical, without giving further details.
Video posted to social media showed hundreds of young men, some carrying Palestinian flags or placards denouncing Israel, storming on to the tarmac of the Makhachkala international airport and climbing on to idling planes, attempting to break through the windows.
Airline employees were shown hustling passengers back inside planes as the crowds approached the aircraft. Russia closed Makhachkala airport on Sunday evening due to “intruders” at the airport.
“This is your captain,” one announcement said. “There’s an angry mob outside that doesn’t know where we’ve come from and why [we are here]. It’s possible we’ll also come under attack.”
The riots appear to have been inspired by a number of posts on the social media platform Telegram, where followers were told that a flight from Tel Aviv would be arriving that evening with refugees from Israel.
Some of the signs held by the rioters read, “We are against Jewish refugees”. Police stood by as hundreds of protesters surged into the airport’s main terminal, entering restricted areas and demanding that customs officials direct them toward the arriving passengers.
Followers of Utro Dagestan, one of the Telegram accounts that regularly carries news mixed with conspiracy theories, were told to besiege the local airport, interrogate arriving passengers and demand that they denounce the Israeli government.
The account also called on local people to follow any arriving Israelis, take pictures of their vehicles and write down the addresses where they were staying.
Other video from the airport showed people accosting airline passengers, including those who appeared to have just arrived on the flight from Israel. They said they were also locals who had travelled abroad for medical help.
2163   RWSGFY   2023 Oct 29, 7:39pm  

A mob looking for Joos in hotels and airports is a pretty Nazi thing...

Now we know how a real Nazi country looks like.
2164   Patrick   2023 Oct 29, 7:42pm  

It's an Islamic mob.
2165   RWSGFY   2023 Oct 29, 7:51pm  

Patrick says

It's an Islamic mob.


Doesn't make it any less Nazi. What they do is basically Kristallnacht re-enactment.
2166   gabbar   2023 Oct 30, 12:41am  

Posted by Naftali Bennett, PM of Israel on X. What applies to Jews applies to non-Muslims (the najis, the dirty and impure non-Muslims) too.

2167   Reality   2023 Oct 30, 6:35am  

RWSGFY says


Patrick says


It's an Islamic mob.


Doesn't make it any less Nazi. What they do is basically Kristallnacht re-enactment.



Not at all. Kristallnacht was encouraged by the government against the country's minority population, with government ordering police to stand-down, in order to achieve the political and economic goal of driving out German middle-class (Jews) to emigrate (to Palestine, i.e. in concordance with Zionists); the closest in recent affairs was the BLM riots, with government officials not only ordering police to stand-down but also knee to advocates of criminal riots. The October 7th attack, with its stand-down orders, and similarly 9-11 and Pearl Harbor, are rather similar to Krystallnacht and Reichstag Fire. Yes, there are Nazis in high offices.

As for what happened in Makhachkala airport, clearly the riot was not encouraged by the Russian government, which sent security forces to intervene and stop the rioting very quickly. It's not clear whether the riot was instigated by western intelligence (which has strong ties to Muslims in the Caucasus) or simply spontaneous actions by locals after seeing what happened to Ukraine, and didn't want the return of Khazarian Empire to the area (heck, even Jews in the middle-east in the early 20th century would have opposed Zionism if they knew what was going to happen to themselves after mass immigration of European Jews to the middle-east under Zionism). Likely a combination of both. After all, Putin is at least partly Jewish (his birth mother was Jewish, so biologically at least 50% Jewish, and by Jewish tradition 100% Jewish), whipping up anti-Jewish sentiment in Russia is another way of trying to overthrow Putin and harvest whatever is in his accounts and those of his cronies, just like whipping up anti-Jewish sentiment worldwide is a way of trying to harvest the bank accounts of Israelis by eventually killing them all (after jabbing them all haven't killed enough fast enough).
2168   RWSGFY   2023 Oct 30, 7:47am  

Please: the government there quashes every attempt of opposition to demonstrate for any cause but somehow powerless to stop pogroms going for the 3rd day already? This IS government-endorsed AF. This is the same government who smiles and shakes hands with Hamas delegation as the Kristalnacht is going on.

Stop being a Nazi apologist.
2169   Reality   2023 Oct 30, 8:13am  

RWSGFY says


Please: the government there quashes every attempt of opposition to demonstrate for any cause but somehow powerless to stop pogroms going for the 3rd day already? This IS government-endorsed AF. This is the same government who smiles and shakes hands with Hamas delegation as the Kristalnacht is going on.

Stop being a Nazi apologist.


What "3rd day" are you talking about? What pogrom are you talking about? The riot at the airport started on Sunday night (local time), and the airport resumed operation by 2pm the next day. The riot lasted only a few hours. There aren't enough Jews living in Dagestan to form a middle-class or any class to be targeted for pogrom; that's why any anti-Jewish sentiment had to be vented towards a plane allegedly landing from Israel. The riot seemed to be quite small, involving only a few hundred people rushing the plane, and only 20+ people were injured, (almost) all of whom were rioters and police.

As for being a Nazi apologist, you are a Nazi apologist for promoting Ukrainian Nazis and for promoting the agenda of Nazis in western government offices who engineered both the October 7th attack against Israeli civilians and likely this airport riot in the northern Caucasus, part of the old Khazarian homeland (same as much of Ukraine), in a plan to relocate survivors of the coming new Holocaust in Israel/Palestine to Khazaria. That's why Blackstone has been buying up land and infrastructure in Ukraine.
2170   Patrick   2023 Oct 30, 8:18am  

https://twitter.com/JoelWBerry/status/1718965723022655653


@JoelWBerry
Something never talked about: the 1,500,000 white Europeans taken into slavery by the Muslims after 1750


2171   fdhfoiehfeoi   2023 Oct 30, 8:52am  

komputodo says

For all the fear mongering about Islam terrorism, what terror attacks have occurred in the usa in the last 20 yrs?


I would expand this to ever. And then I would start with the Boston Massacre by the British, Sherman's genocide of the South, up to the 9/11 controlled demolition of the Twin Towers by the US government, and the Scamdemic.

There have been plenty of terrorist acts in America, they've just all been committed by governments.
2172   fdhfoiehfeoi   2023 Oct 30, 8:57am  

Patrick says

2013 Boston Marathon bombing – Two brothers, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, planted two bombs near the finish line of the Boston Marathon in Massachusetts...


Abbreviated the citations because these are all false flag events orchestrated by US government deep state operatives. See Operation Northwood and MK Ultra.

I do remember seeing an unsolved murder in Canada where radical Muslims killed a fellow Muslim who denounced them. So I'm sure cases like that can be found. Just like they can for Jews, Christians, etc.
2173   fdhfoiehfeoi   2023 Oct 30, 9:01am  

Patrick says

I do agree with you that the majority of human beings are not sociopaths, but the author of the Koran was absolutely a sociopath. The Koran is mostly a resentful screed against non-Muslims.


You still haven't explained the practicing Muslims who disagree with your violent take on the Koran. Have you properly contextualized the entire book, or are you just reading certain sections? In Christianity we call that hermeneutical gymnastics. As I said, if I read only the Old Testament, especially the conquest of the promised land, I get a VERY different perspective than when I read the Beatitudes.
2174   Patrick   2023 Oct 30, 10:24am  

NuttBoxer says


You still haven't explained the practicing Muslims who disagree with your violent take on the Koran.


Sure I have. The Muslims who reject violence against non-Muslims are violating the commands of Islam.

NuttBoxer says


Have you properly contextualized the entire book, or are you just reading certain sections?


The whole book is a relentless screed of hate for non-Muslims, all the way through. That is the context. Within that, there are specific commands to murder non-Muslims.

You're right that the Old Testament has a lot of varying tones. The Koran is not like that at all. It's contempt for non-Muslims from start to finish. "O ye who will not believe, you'll be sorry..." over and over. The Koran is very consistent that way.
2175   Patrick   2023 Oct 30, 11:04am  

NuttBoxer says


radical Muslims killed a fellow Muslim who denounced them. So I'm sure cases like that can be found. Just like they can for Jews, Christians, etc.


@NuttBoxer

I don't think so. I don't think there has been any case of any Jew or Christian killing one of their own who denounced them in the last few centuries.

The Catholic Church used to burn heretics, but that was in direct violation of the teachings of Jesus.

But it's common in the Islamic world for Muslims to kill a former Muslims. In fact, it's commanded by Islamic law.
2176   fdhfoiehfeoi   2023 Oct 30, 12:01pm  

Patrick says

Sure I have. The Muslims who reject violence against non-Muslims are violating the commands of Islam.


I seriously doubt you've addressed this thus far, but I may have missed it. And I'm pretty sure they would strongly disagree with you, and would likely have passages from the Koran to support their views. But you don't seem to consider that. Sounds pretty fucking arrogant to me. A non-Muslim telling Muslims how to practice their faith. And definitely not open minded at all.

Patrick says

The whole book is a relentless screed of hate for non-Muslims, all the way through.

So I'm guessing you mean the whole book except the first 70 some verses? That's how far I read, and I saw a lot of parallels with the Old and New Testament, NT specifically thinking of Christ's words. Didn't see your screed though. I certainly could have picked the only section where you assertion is wrong, but throws a lot of doubt on your argument. What I did see is a passage that said whether a man is Jew, Christian, or Sabean, if they're a true believer, they would enter heaven. Also saw a shit ton of references to the Old Testament, Israel and Moses. That tells me they share a history with the Jews, confirmed by the Old Testament account of Abraham's descendants. Almost like a brother tribe.
2177   fdhfoiehfeoi   2023 Oct 30, 12:17pm  

Patrick says

I don't think there has been any case of any Jew or Christian killing one of their own who denounced them in the last few centuries.

The Catholic Church used to burn heretics, but that was in direct violation of the teachings of Jesus.

But it's common in the Islamic world for Muslims to kill a former Muslims. In fact, it's commanded by Islamic law.


Not a former Muslim, just someone who didn't agree with their radicalized teachings. Another assumption by you.

On the Catholic thing, not even close to the only instance. Let me start with the most famous Jew first, Jesus Christ, murdered by His own people. Only reason Rome had to carry out sentencing was because they were under Rome and didn't haven't authority. Stephen followed pretty quickly, A Jew stoned by Jews. And if you want something more recent, I'd refer you to the King David hotel bombings, carried out by Jews, who killed Jews.

On to Christianity. Let's just stay in the US where examples are fucking rife. Salem witch trials saw a number of Christians hanged for refusing to go along with a witch hunt. Puritans attempted genocide during the War Between the States against a mostly Christian South. And I'm fairly certain England professed to be Christian during the Revolution. And as I've mentioned today, Neo-Cons are often Christian, and have little regard for the Christian communities in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Iran, or Gaza. We fucking do it all the time.

See, I didn't preface the act of murder by a religion against their own with whether it followed teachings or not, because it didn't, in any of the religions. And I would never be so foolish as to assume any follower of any religion strictly adheres to every principle. As I Christian I am well aware our testimony is the number one turn off for none believers.

See, you can find people of any religious persuasion who are willing to commit murder, or condone it. Whether it's a religious reason or not is irrelevant. It only matters if it was done in self-defense.
2178   fdhfoiehfeoi   2023 Oct 30, 12:24pm  

So I went to a Christian college, and took a class on World Religions. We covered the main ones, including Islam. What I remember is that it's the same as Catholicism or any works based religion. As long as you do your sacraments, or whatever they're called, you go to heaven. Doesn't matter how much bad shit you do, as long as you do the sacraments. That was the professor's take.

No Jihad, no kill all infidels. And I am painfully aware of the numerous acts of violence carried out by the church in the name of God. Just like I'm sure Muslim's are aware of the same carried out in the name of Allah. I denounce it when I heard it in my church(I emailed them about their call to pray for only Israel), and I'm sure Muslims do the same in their temples. At least the ones I've personally known and read about. And according to the first 70 verses of the Koran, seems spot on to me...
2179   Patrick   2023 Oct 30, 12:30pm  

NuttBoxer says


And I'm pretty sure they would strongly disagree with you, and would likely have passages from the Koran to support their views. But you don't seem to consider that.


Please read the original post. It documents the essence of the Koran, over and over.

Note that the "peaceful verses" were written before Islam got political power, and the verses after that time are not at all peaceful.

In fact, Muslims are explicitly instructed that the peaceful verses are obsolete and are to be ignored when Islam has power. This has been documented in this very thread:

https://patrick.net/post/511/2007-09-11-islam-and-violence?start=2059#comment-2000850

NuttBoxer says


Salem witch trials


Yes, you have to reach centuries into the past to find examples of Christians violating Christian teaching like that.

But Muslims murder non-Muslims continuously across the globe, as well as Muslims who try to leave Islam, and this does not violate Islam at all, but in fact is explicitly commanded by Islam. Again, see original post.

No other religion creates such a stream of mayhem and death as a result of its followers literally following the teaching of that religion:

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

NuttBoxer says


Sounds pretty fucking arrogant to me.


That's sounds pretty personal to me, not about the topic.
2180   Patrick   2023 Oct 30, 12:45pm  

NuttBoxer says

So I went to a Christian college, and took a class on World Religions. We covered the main ones, including Islam. What I remember is that it's the same as Catholicism or any works based religion. As long as you do your sacraments, or whatever they're called, you go to heaven.


With respect to rituals, sure, Islam and Catholicism are similar.

But Jesus never killed anyone, nor instructed his followers to kill anyone. Christians who kill in the name of Christianity are violating their own religion.

Mohammed killed a lot of people, and instructed his followers to do the same. Muslims who kill in the name of Islam are being good Muslims.

That part is very, very different.
2181   gabbar   2023 Oct 30, 1:01pm  

Patrick says


Muslims who kill in the name of Islam are being good Muslims.


Its a honor for Muslims, the slaves of Allah (the merciful of course, pieces be upon him ) to kill non-Muslims. Is there any other religion that has this kind of pure pig shit?
2182   gabbar   2023 Oct 30, 1:14pm  

This is how this pieceful ideology spread.

2183   Patrick   2023 Oct 30, 1:28pm  

gabbar says


This is how this pieceful ideology spread.


One thing I did not understand at first was that a lot of peasants converted to Islam because Muslims were offering lower tax rates for new Muslim converts than the Byzantine Empire was already charging for Christians. The Byzantine Empire kind of fucked itself there, by over-taxing its people and creating a motive for them to defect.

The result in the longer term was that wealthier Christians and Jews could afford to pay the jizya and remain Christian or Jewish under Muslim rule, but the poor could not afford the jizya, and so were faced with conversion or death.

And the result of that was that the remaining Christian and Jewish minorities tended to be wealthier than Muslims, so the poor Muslims resented them and were eager to kill them and take their possessions and land, which happened off and on right up into the Armenian Genocide.
2184   Patrick   2023 Oct 30, 1:47pm  

https://twitter.com/lporiginalg/status/1718870814765072684


@lporiginalg

In the UK if Muslims assault you for speaking facts the police will arrest you.

2185   Reality   2023 Oct 30, 1:58pm  

gabbar says


Patrick says


Muslims who kill in the name of Islam are being good Muslims.


Its a honor for Muslims, the slaves of Allah (the merciful of course, pieces be upon him ) to kill non-Muslims. Is there any other religion that has this kind of pure pig shit?



Didn't Netanyahu just quote the paragaphs from Jewish bible (Samuels specifically, IIRC) about the merciful Jewish God commanding the slaughtering of all men, women, children and livestock (camels, asses/donkeys, etc.)? IIRC, the fall of Jericho was similar. Saul, the predecessor of King David, was actually punished by God for having mercy and not killing everyone during conquest (IIRC, he only spared some farm animals, not even any women or children).

To be honest, IMHO, Christianity was Judaism marketed to non-Jews of Roman Empire; then Islam was Judaism marketed to sand-people when Byzantine and Sassanids locked in decades long war blocking the usual trade routes between Byzantine and the far east, so new trade routes had to be found both north (through Khazaria and the steppes instead of the usual Ferghana Valley) and south (along the red sea and Arabian sea, hence Islam teachings on commercial trust).

The institutional bloodiness of Islam and Crusades all came from Judaism. If you read carefully between the lines, you'd realize that the family of Jacob (the patriarch) were not really sheep herders but a parable for farming human, probably reference to the Egyptian Pharoahs, as there is a theory that Moses was the Pharoah Akenarten.
2186   Reality   2023 Oct 30, 2:24pm  

The irony is that, back in 8th century, allowing paying a tax instead of being killed was the state of the art on religious freedom; allowing conversion and pay lower tax was even more open-minded than usual. That's why Islam spread as quickly as it did. In comparison, Jewish priests commanded their warriors to kill all men, women, children and all live-stock in conquered area around 1300BC; Romans (Caesar) deliberately caused wars to mass kill and loot Helvetics, Gauls and Belgics around 70BC; Crusaders (both the ones sent to the Holyland, and Northern Crusade to Poland and Lithuania) in the 10th through 14th century went on murders for profit and deliberately killed entire tribes already converted to Christianity pretending victims' conversions were either incomplete or fake.

Not saying what Muslims do today (especially fundamentalists after 1960's) is admirable, but what Muslims did in the 8th century was relatively benign and open-minded by the standards of their time (allowing the conquered to live by paying tax; and lower tax if conversion). What's more: even in the first 60% of 20th century, Muslim societies were quite open, with girls dressed in short skirts all way into the 1970's. IMHO, violent post-modern Muslim fundamentalists are creations of the globalist banksters as a tool to disrupt modern western society, just like those MKUltra mass shooters.
2187   RWSGFY   2023 Oct 30, 2:44pm  

Loving all the Nazi apologists who are falling over themselves to say that having a Kristalnacht in one very locked-down and heavily policed country where you can't go out with an anti-war placard but Jews are literally being chased around an airfield by the angry mob is TOTALLY NOT NAZI.

Now back to the loony tunes about KHAZARIAN MAFIA.
2188   Reality   2023 Oct 30, 2:55pm  

RWSGFY says


Loving all the Nazi apologists who are falling over themselves to say that having a Kristalnacht in one very locked-down and heavily policed country where you can't go out with an anti-war placard but Jews are literally being chased around an airfield by the angry mob is TOTALLY NOT NAZI.


So you are saying Israel is a Nazi country because some Muslims chased Jews down for a few hours in southern Israel on October 7th? While Zionists are indeed Nazis (both on Nationalism+Socialism, and their eventual goal of killing Jews in Israel to harvest their bank account balances just like the historical German Nazis did to European Jews), I wouldn't say Israel is a Nazi country per se, simply because most Israelis are not aware of the real goal of Zionism.
2189   Patrick   2023 Oct 30, 2:56pm  

Reality says


IMHO, Christianity was Judaism marketed to non-Jews of Roman Empire


Jesus' teachings were not all that Jewish, but basically I agree. It first spread among the Greeks, and whether they had to get circumcised as a major problem. The lifting of various Jewish rules like circumcision and the prohibition on pork made Christianity more acceptable, and more separate from Judaism.

Reality says


Islam was Judaism marketed to sand-people


Yes, Judaism and Islam are really very similar. Much more so than Judaism and Christianity, in spite of the Christians' inclusion of the "Old Testament".

Reality says


Didn't Netanyahu just quote the paragaphs from Jewish bible (Samuels specifically, IIRC) about the merciful Jewish God commanding the slaughtering of all men, women, children and livestock (camels, asses/donkeys, etc.)?


I was kind of shocked when I saw that he did that. It's the very worst bit of Judaism, requiring that slaughter of innocent people who lived in the land before them.

Still, it's not as bad as Islam, which considers the whole world as its property instead of taking over just one country. And I've read that at first, Muslims did slaughter all who refused to convert, and it was only a bit later that they got the bright idea of taxing instead of killing. Good revenue source.

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