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Islam and Violence


 invite response                
2007 Sep 11, 1:35am   584,994 views  2,735 comments

by resistance   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Originally from http://www.faithfreedom.org/

A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

Dear friends,

The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.

What the Qur'an Teaches Us:

We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.

Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.

We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

Arabic translation الترجمة العربية

See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.

Please copy this article, and distribute it as widely as possible, both online and physically. The future of humanity depends on it.

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2674   Patrick   2024 Jun 29, 10:19am  

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/the-court-giveth-saturday-june-29


The Bible also teaches basic philosophy in an unmatched way. For just one example: does objective morality exist? Or does morality only come from democratically-based human laws? In other words, is forcible rape always wrong, even if a particular culture’s democratic majority approves of raping women who refuse to wear a head scarf? If so, why?
2675   Patrick   2024 Jul 1, 9:21am  

https://darkfutura.substack.com/p/the-hoi-polloi-are-sick



Every mosque in the West is a foreign military base.
2677   gabbar   2024 Jul 1, 10:07am  

Patrick says





Politicians have to learn to keep their words/promises to the extent possible, otherwise they are worth shit, no matter which country they belong to (even Italy).
2678   Patrick   2024 Jul 1, 10:10am  

I think she's sincere. At least we can quote her later.
2679   gabbar   2024 Jul 4, 4:21pm  

No one can be a true Muslim and a true American simultaneously. Islam is both a religion and a state, and to be a true Muslim you must believe in Islam as both religion and state. A true Muslim does not acknowledge the U.S. Constitution, and his willingness to live under that constitution is, as far as he is concerned, nothing more than an unavoidable step on the way to the constitution’s replacement by Islamic Sharia law. - Wafa Sultan, Author of A God Who Hates: The Courageous Woman Who Inflamed the Muslim World Speaks Out Against the Evils of Islam

2681   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 5, 1:10am  

Germany

Iranian stabs police intern

Why did the federal police officer shoot the Iranian knife attacker in Lauf, Franconia? It has now emerged that the perpetrator had stabbed an intern shortly before. And also that he had previously been convicted.

Lauf/Pegnitz

The public prosecutor’s office has released further details on the death of an Iranian who was shot by a federal police officer. According to the report, the attack by the 34-year-old at the train station on the left bank of the Pegnitz in Lauf, Middle Franconia, was far more dramatic than previously known.

The attacker had already stabbed an intern who wanted to become a police sergeant, reports the Bild newspaper. Only a protective vest saved him from serious injury or even death.

Iranian first attacks police car

The situation was apparently much more dangerous than previously portrayed. The man suddenly tried to open the door of the patrol car with the three federal police officers and had a knife in his hand. Then he hit the car.

The officers drove a few meters further and then got out. They used pepper spray on the armed man. Even after a warning shot, the migrant did not drop the knife, and stabbed the intern. The female federal police officer then shot him in the stomach.

Without giving any details, senior public prosecutor Heike Klotzbücher also told Bild that the tolerated asylum seeker had been charged with several criminal offenses. He had also already been convicted.

Afterword from the translator:

If he had already been convicted of crimes committed, why then was that splash of toxic feculence not flushed down the toilet? A minimum of three new INDIVIDUAL cases come to light every day. And with all the previous cases since 2015, the perpetrators are people who simply have no business being in Germany or Europe, and from whom the state deliberately fails to protect the native populace. This has nothing to do with integration “gone wrong”. After all it is very simple: whoever comes to Germany or Europe has to show respect, consideration and humility towards the country that takes him in. Then they are easily integrated. But integration is not on their agenda, conquest and subjugation on the other hand are. It should be becoming increasingly clear even to the dumbest that there is a system to this: on the one side called “tolerance” and the other “concerted attacks”, “individual cases” and whatever meaningless wordplay they can come up with. To my way of thinking this system can now justifiably be seen as a “civil war”, waged by the government against the people with the help of hostile mercenaries, paid for by the forced taxation, and can be called exactly that. What else could it be?

https://gatesofvienna.net/2024/07/are-the-gloves-coming-off/#more-57762

One will notice that Not-so-Indy Pedantic Journalists seldom cover Turd World Rapefugee Violence in the West except to accuse the police of being bad.
2684   SoTex   2024 Jul 6, 4:00pm  

Patrick says

DNA from 9 men was found inside her.


This is impossible. You can't deconvolute mixtures of more than 3 individuals, maaaybe 4 if you're lucky. I worked on this (marketing wanted 7 and didn't like it when I told them it was science fiction) with former FBI agents that were professors at UNT and WCU - basically the two main thought leaders.

Additionally in Europe a lot of countries don't even let you use modern DNA analysis technology (not sure about Germany) at all - like Belgium.

So they are still using 50 year old techology: STRs (short tandem repeats) but even using modern DNA sequencing for SNPs (single nucleotide polymorphisms) you aren't going to be able to separate much in a gang rape sadly.

Maybe someone is using long read tech and has bumped it up since 2014 but I seriously doubt it and if so it ain't 9.
2685   SoTex   2024 Jul 6, 4:01pm  

Then again, maybe someone has video evidence of all 9 making deposits... Same problem with baseball caps worn by multiple individuals.
2687   Reality   2024 Jul 8, 9:06am  

I'm no fan of post-1960's Islamic fundamentalism. However, before we go too far on this "Two-Minute Hate" thing (reference "1984" by George Orwell), let's not forget who controlled/control the governments and media that imported the high thug-content population, and who paid for the Madrassa's that churned out the religious zealots/thugs. Islam had dominated Afghanistan for over 1300 years without blowing up the Bhuddist statues (by the Intelligence-funded groups operating under Islam flag to fight the Soviets originally). After Christianity took over Roman Empire, especially the Eastern half, after the failure of Jewish extremists (likely agent provocateurs paid by bankers who owed money to Jewish upper and middle class) to assassinate / slaughter the numerically superior Christian population in Alexandria and Christians turned on the Jews, the event that led to the death of Hypatia the female president of the world's largest university at the time, Jews were driven out of the upper echelons in Eastern Roman Empire in the 5th century. Sassanids were brought into constant war against ERE, and Judaism was marketed to the north and south side of that East-West trade corridor. The version marketed in the northern wing was what eventually became Ashkenazim, whereas the southern wing equally commercial-centric was Islam.

Islam spread successfully in its early years the same way "Barbarians" "conquered" West Roman frontiers: by offering frontier population much lower taxes. ERE was notoriously high in taxes. Further east, just think how much taxes had to be collected to build those gigantic Bhuddist statues. People converted to Islam en masse and welcomed the new regime in order to get lower taxes. The new regime left the Bhuddist statues alone for well over a thousand years; obviously, they didn't give much of a phuck about them, and didn't have any political motive to outrage locals or "the international community" to induce an invasion from far away.

The post-1960's promotion of particularly violent versions of Islam (which on started on the Shiite site by housing Ayatollah Khomeini in Paris, and on the Sunni side by funding Madrassas all over the Islamic countries) was an operation similar to globalist bankers promoting Communists/Communism in the late 19th century. That also explains why their controlled media and politicians insisted on importing those thugs.
2688   socal2   2024 Jul 8, 9:29am  

Reality says

The post-1960's promotion of particularly violent versions of Islam (which on started on the Shiite site by housing Ayatollah Khomeini in Paris, and on the Sunni side by funding Madrassas all over the Islamic countries) was an operation similar to globalist bankers promoting Communists/Communism in the late 19th century. That also explains why their controlled media and politicians insisted on importing those thugs.


Soooo......it is not Islam's fault?

It's the Jooos (bankers) once again?

Do you think the discovery of oil and making the Saudis and Iranians rich overnight after WWII might have played a natural role in Islam's radicalism over the last 50+ years? There are lots of fat and rich Sunnis and Shias kicking it on oil revenue with lots of money to spread around to extremist Muslim groups to take the heat off their hypocritical lifestyles.
2689   Reality   2024 Jul 8, 12:04pm  

socal2 says


Soooo......it is not Islam's fault?

It's the Jooos (bankers) once again?


LOL! You are the one equating bankers with Jews, not me. Banking is fundamentally and eventually (after decades or generations in operation, as the rare early talents fade to biological average) a pyramid scheme. When Bernie Madoff ran a banking/fund ponzi scheme and most of his victims were Jewish, that was a banking crime not a Jewish crime per se; when Charles Ponzi ran a fund/ ponzi scheme and most of his victims were Italian Americans, that was a banking/pyramid scheme crime not an Italian crime per se. When bankers set up Weimar Republic and filled more than 60% of the top cabinet seats with Jews (who accounted for about 1% of German population at that time) then hired Hitler and Nazis to kill Jews by the millions in order to seize the victims' bank account balances and cumulative life insurance premiums, that was not a Jewish crime but a banking crime.

In case it was not obvious to you in my previous comment, Islam is a branch of Judaism, no less Judaism than the post 5th-century Talmudism (which had its start in Babylon after Jews were driven out Alexandria, which had been the economic and cultural center of ERE (just like NYC was to the US before BLM/AntiFa) before the incident described in my previous comment). Ezra started Torahism in the 5th century BC; that became Pharaseeism and Sadduceeism around the time of 1st Century AD. After Jews were driven out of Alexandria (likely due to a bankster crime against Jewish clients to whom the bankers owed money, false-flagging an extremist Jewish plot to massacre the majority Christians in Alexandria) in the 5th century, Judaism re-organized around (the north branch) Talmudism in Babylon then spread north to the trade route through the Steppes, and (the south branch) Islam south along the east coast of Red Sea and Arabian Sea trade route to India then the Far East, as the middle route became blocked by the long-lasting wars between ERE and Sassanids.


Do you think the discovery of oil and making the Saudis and Iranians rich overnight after WWII might have played a natural role in Islam's radicalism over the last 50+ years? There are lots of fat and rich Sunnis and Shias kicking it on oil revenue with lots of money to spread around to extremist Muslim groups to take the heat off their hypocritical lifestyles.


Iranian oil was discovered before WWI. In fact, the discovery of oil and German proposal to build Berlin-Bagdad railroad may have been a major cause of WW1, as an oil-fired German battle fleet would be able to operate on the high seas without a network of coaling stations like the Royal Navy had. In any case, after Iran gained independence after WW2, the choice of the Iranian people was democracy. After the CIA overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister Mossadeghe and his government, power went to the Shah (King/Emperor), whose decades rule was also quite secular. The streets of Iran were filled with men and women in fashions similar to NYC of the same time period. The muslim extremists didn't come into power until the CIA shipped Ayatolla Khomeini from Paris and told the Shah's military and security officers to stand down when the Shah ordered the suppression of Khomeini's Islamists. Why? Probably because by then the banks owed the Shah (and his bureaucrats, plus Iranian middle class) a lot of money in various deposit and investment accounts.

The Saudis royal house was installed by the British. Considering how cozy the Saudi royal house is with Israel, it shouldn't be surprising the the vast funding for Wahabist Madrassas all over the muslim countries of the world by the Saudis (royal house, as the rest of the population are Arabs not House of Saud) is similar to the 19th century movement to fund public schools all over the world, brainwashing youths into becoming soldiers in the Prussian model, also similar to the bankers' funding of communist revolutionaries all over the world in the late 19th century and 20th century: as a way of causing mayhem and harvesting middle-class banking accounts by killing account holders.
2690   Patrick   2024 Jul 8, 12:28pm  

Reality says

Iranian oil was discovered before WWI.


I've read that petroleum was used for lamps in that area from ancient times. Everyone knew it was there, just not exactly how much.
2691   Reality   2024 Jul 8, 12:44pm  

Patrick says


I've read that petroleum was used for lamps in that area from ancient times. Everyone knew it was there, just not exactly how much.


Good point! What was discovered in Iran in 1908 (6 years before the start of WW1) was oil well capable of producing oil on an industrial scale. That led to the German proposal of Berlin-Baghdad rail-road (with possibility of further extension to oil wells); that was alarming to the British RN, which was debating switching battleships from coal to oil for fast refueling.
2692   socal2   2024 Jul 8, 2:19pm  

Reality says

Patrick says



I've read that petroleum was used for lamps in that area from ancient times. Everyone knew it was there, just not exactly how much.


Good point! What was discovered in Iran in 1908 (6 years before the start of WW1) was oil well capable of producing oil on an industrial scale. That led to the German proposal of Berlin-Baghdad rail-road (with possibility of further extension to oil wells); that was alarming to the British RN, which was debating switching battleships from coal to oil for fast refueling.


But none of the primitive Muslims had the brains or the ability to locate or extract the oil on their own. It wasn't until the West (namely Aramco) set up the infrastructure and knowhow to pump oil that made the Saudis unbelievably rich virtually overnight.

https://www.aramco.com/en/about-us/our-history

Virtually every rich and successful society on the planet took centuries of human evolution to achieve its wealth. Oil rich Muslim countries became billionaires almost instantly and now its like we have given a chimp a machine gun.
2693   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 8, 4:44pm  

John Steinbeck's ancestor was at the Mount Hope colony in Israel around 1858. His wife was raped and killed.

They too were attacked by Arab tenant farmers/sharecroppers who did NOT own the land, after overpaying for the land from absentee Damascus landlords. Sound familiar?
2694   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 8, 4:45pm  

I'm also learning about the Tegart line, a series of forts and fences built between Lebanon-Syria and Israel, by the British.

Why? The French wanted Greater Syria, so were allowing/paying Arabs from Lebanon and Syria to attack into British Palestine.

It was built before Israel, before WW2, even before the Great Depression.
2695   Patrick   2024 Jul 8, 4:46pm  

AmericanKulak says

John Steinbeck's ancestor was at the Mount Hope colony in Israel around 1858. His wife was raped and killed.


Steinbeck was not Jewish though, afaik. What were his ancestors doing there?
2696   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 8, 5:18pm  

Patrick says


Steinbeck was not Jewish though, afaik. What were his ancestors doing there?

There were Prussian/New Englanders of a Calvinist Sect looking to settle the Holy Land. Reformed Pro-Zionism is ancient.

There was also a Lutheran German colony in Haifa as well starting in the 19th.
2697   Reality   2024 Jul 9, 6:32am  

socal2 says


But none of the primitive Muslims had the brains or the ability to locate or extract the oil on their own. It wasn't until the West (namely Aramco) set up the infrastructure and knowhow to pump oil that made the Saudis unbelievably rich virtually overnight.

https://www.aramco.com/en/about-us/our-history

Virtually every rich and successful society on the planet took centuries of human evolution to achieve its wealth. Oil rich Muslim countries became billionaires almost instantly and now its like we have given a chimp a machine gun.


When the first successful oil well found oil (on an industrial output scale) in Saudi Arabia in 1938, they had to reach a depth of 1440 meters (4724 feet), which made it one of the deepest oil wells of the time, if not the deepest in the world up to that point. Obviously, not every country could domestically possess the cutting edge technology for oil drilling, as there is only 1 deepest producing well in the world at any time, and Saudi Arabia had no oil production history before that. BTW, if the Italians and Germans could drill to 2700 meters, the depth of Lybian oil well at first discovery in the 1970's, there wouldn't be World War 2 ("world running out of oil" was a major fear back then so Germans were convinced they had to seize some) or the Axis would have won WWII. So why did the world's leading experts and industrial capital in oil drilling deploy their expertise in Saudi Arabia in 1938? Because Saudi Arabia delivered one of the best investment environment, unlike earlier attempts to drill in Oman and Yemen failed due to local political instability. Regardless what you think of the later generations of Saudi rulers, the founding Ibn al-Saud was no fool. You can call him cunning and ruthless, but he was definitely not stupid.

BTW, it's literally anti-Semitic to call Arabs "primitive," "no brains" and "chimp." Furthermore, there is a theory that Ibn al-Saud was derived from a Jewish ancestry. Seeing that almost every other country that got rich on mineral resources experienced coup/revolution every few decades to have the local dictatorship (their deposit and investment accounts at globalist banks) harvested, but the House of Saud has been ruling since the 1920's . . . it does make one wonder if they are indeed Jewish (doesn't make one immune to being harvested but tend to be put further back on the harvest target list, like every century instead of every 20-30 years but more thorough-going: decimating (killing 10% of) a population every 20-30 years might improve average IQ by 3-5 points but mass-murdering half to 90% of the population every century can result in 15 average IQ points "advantage") or working for the globalist bankers in other ways such as acting as a front-man for funding and training terrorists to generate chaos and mayhem in order to harvest other mineral rich dictators (and their middle-class and upper middle class also having account balances at globalist banks). "Mineral rich" here is an expanded term: e.g. South Vietnamese government had a gold mine in fighting communists and getting foreign aid money stolen from American taxpayers, Afghan government had a gold mine in fighting Islamic fundamentalists and getting foreign aid money stolen from American taxpayers.

The real question is: would the Saudis being Jewish change your opinion about them being "primitive," "no brains" and "chimp"? BTW, the name Saudi Arabia is a little like calling the UK "Battenberg Isles." "Saudi" denotes the House of Saud, not the Arabs living in that country, which is the only country in the world literally named as the possession of a royal house.

Also, is there any "rich and successful society" under globalist banking hegemony? Germans (and especially German Jews) were very hard-working, meticulous and highly intelligent, and they were harvested twice in less than half a century nearly 100 years ago, and now being harvested again and possibly replaced. Japanese were also very hard-working, meticulous and highly intelligent, and they were harvested 80 years ago, and harvested again in the last 30+ years, now waiting to be replaced. Even looking at NYC, London, and Tel Aviv today, do they look "rich and successful" to you? Some say being wealthy makes the population degenerate . . . however, is that really the free choice of the population or the result of massive brainwashing designed to harvest them and their forefathers' hard work fruits-of-labor? We all know what happened to Cape Town, Jonhanesburg and Salisbury/Harare. All those smart and hard-working population went through being farmed and harvested.
2698   socal2   2024 Jul 9, 8:17am  

Reality says

BTW, it's literally anti-Semitic to call Arabs "primitive," "no brains" and "chimp."


I am calling "Muslims" primitive, no brains and chimps. I know several Christian, Jewish and Baha'i Arabs in SoCal that fled Muslim persecution in the Middle East.

Islam is the ultimate mind virus that ruins civilizations and anyone unfortunate enough to live next door. The religion is incompatible with any sort of free and tolerant society.

We need to stop making fanciful conspiracy theories to somehow blame the West to explain away the massive problems of Islam.
2699   Reality   2024 Jul 9, 9:12am  

socal2 says


I am calling "Muslims" primitive, no brains and chimps. I know several Christian, Jewish and Baha'i Arabs in SoCal that fled Muslim persecution in the Middle East.


Did they flee the Middle East before 1938 oil discovery in Saudi Arabia? or 1908 (industrial) oil drilling in Iran? Because you cited those countries not having the world's most advanced drilling operations domestically as evidence for their being "primitive" "no brains" and "chimps." Do you have a set of drills in your basement that you can drive down into the ground by 1440 meters (over 4500 feet) ? If you don't, wouldn't your logic deem yourself "primitive" "no brains and "chimp"?


Islam is the ultimate mind virus that ruins civilizations and anyone unfortunate enough to live next door. The religion is incompatible with any sort of free and tolerant society.

We need to stop making fanciful conspiracy theories to somehow blame the West to explain away the massive problems of Islam.


Islam is a branch of Judaism, just like Christianity is a branch of Judaism, only more so, as both Talmudism (what most post-5th century sects marketing under the brand "Judaism" are) and Islam were Jewish reactions to the popularity of Christianity in Eastern Roman Empire. Both Christianity and Islam became more popular than Judaism (the sects that continued to market under that brand, not the more broad view of Judaism that includes both Christianity and Islam) precisely because of being more tolerant: Christianity was more tolerant (and imposed less money-changer rip-off's) than the 1st Century AD/CE dominant sects in Judaism (Pharaseeism and Sadduceeism), and Islam was more tolerant and imposed less taxes than the way Eastern Roman Empire ran Christianity after the 5th century.

The post-1960's Islamic fundamentalism is just like post-1870's Zionism/Jewish fundamentalism and post-1848 Communism: a revolutionary ideology promoted by the globalist bankers to create chaos and hate in pursuit of mass killing account holders. 100 years ago, extremely low percentage of European Jews were Zionists or wanted to relocate to the Middle East (or believed in terrorist attacks against both the British and the Arabs in order to build a "Zion" in the Middle East, something that Irgun Gang and etc. did and eventually became the IDF). A very large percentage of the average European Jews were later slaughtered by the globalist bankster engineered war and massacre in order to void their bank accounts and insurance accounts, and force the rest of them to move to the Middle East to start another human-farming cycle (as human cattle).
2700   socal2   2024 Jul 9, 9:31am  

Reality says

Did they flee the Middle East before 1938 oil discovery in Saudi Arabia? or 1908 (industrial) oil drilling in Iran?


They mostly fled in the late 1970's and early 80's when the Ayatollahs took over Iran and Saudis were spreading extremist Wahhabism around the Sunni Muslim world.

The point you seem to be missing is that the "Muslim World" did not get super rich until the 1970's when their oil production (and price) massively increased thanks to West's expanding economies needing energy. This massive increase in oil revenue just so happens to be about the same time that modern day Islamic terrorism started around the world with airplane hijackings and Olympic attacks and radical fundamentalist Islam (both Sunni and Shia) in places like Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Gulf States forcing women back into burqas and generally dumbing down their civilizations with Islam.


https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-history-of-oil-production-from-the-worlds-giant-oil-fields-The-rapid-e-xpansion-of_fig2_225365392
2701   Reality   2024 Jul 9, 10:02am  

socal2 says


They mostly fled in the late 1970's and early 80's when the Ayatollahs took over Iran and Saudis were spreading extremist Wahhabism around the Sunni Muslim world.

The point you seem to be missing is that the "Muslim World" did not get super rich until the 1970's when their oil production (and price) massively increased thanks to West's expanding economies needing energy. This massive increase in oil revenue just so happens to be about the same time that modern day Islamic terrorism started around the world with airplane hijackings and Olympic attacks and radical fundamentalist Islam (both Sunni and Shia) in places like Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Gulf States forcing women back into burqas and generally dumbing down their civilizations with Islam.



LOL! Your graph directly contradicts your statement. In the graph, oil production peaked in the 1970's, then saw a massive decline from late 1970s to mid-1980's. The rapid production growth ended in the 1970's. Have you thought of the possibility that as oil production/demand growth slowed down as a result of the closing of the gold window in 1973 and the world economic growth slowed down dramatically, all the "terrorism" etc. were excuses to raise oil revenue (by raising price) despite declining shipping volume, so that more of the oil importing nations' money could be shuffled through the oil exporter countries to the globalist banks? That is, a matter of raising taxes on the entire world population by raising energy cost despite not producing more oil.

In case it's not obvious, almost all the big wars in oil-producing countries since the early 1980's have not been about bringing new oil production capacity online but taking existing oil production off-line or banned from selling on the market. The purpose is keeping oil price high as a form of tax on the population.

BTW, Iran was a much wealthier place under the Shah before his overthrow in 1979 than it has been under the Ayatollahs since then. The Islamic revolution in Iran provided the excuse to limit Iranian oil export so oil price can be kept artificially high.
2702   socal2   2024 Jul 9, 10:19am  

Reality says

LOL! Your graph directly contradicts your statement. In the graph, oil production peaked in the 1970's, then saw a massive decline from late 1970s to mid-1980's.


Please.

The price of oil dramatically increased at the 1970's and has never come down to the 1960's prices ever since. OPEC production has only come down to prop up the price of oil to account for more production from the US in response to the 1970's oil embargos.

Face it. Oil producing Muslim countries got insanely rich in the late 20th century (both in oil price and volume) thanks to Western technology, labor and demand. I also know alot of people who worked for oil companies who lived years in Saudi Arabia's gated communities to manage the oil field because the Saudis were too stupid and lazy to do manual work. All this extra money was used to fund mosques and madrassas around the world to make up for hypocritical fat Saudis and Iranians living the high life - which ended up radicalizing a huge chunk of the Muslim world we have today.


2703   Reality   2024 Jul 9, 10:30am  

socal2 says


The price of oil dramatically increased at the 1970's and has never come down to the 1960's prices ever since.


Nor have most other commodities. The real reason is dollar devaluation as the dollar became detached from the $35/ounce Brettonwoods price, officially starting in 1973. Gold today trades around $2360/ounce, please don't tell me you expect it to go back to the $35/ounce 1960's price.

socal2 says


Oil producing Muslim countries got insanely rich in the late 20th century (both in oil price and volume) thanks to Western technology, labor and demand. I also know alot of people who worked for oil companies who lived years in Saudi Arabia's gated communities to manage the oil field be
cause the Saudis were too stupid and lazy to do manual work. All this extra money was used to fund mosques and madrassas around the world to make up for hypocritical fat Saudis and Iranians living the high life - which ended up radicalizing a huge chunk of the Muslim world we have today.


The Iranians were much wealthier under the Shah before his overthrow in 1979 than they have been under the Ayatollahs since then. The game was to keep Iranian oil off world market, so the Saudi (and other Gulf emeirates) can get high prices and pass the money to globalist banks, financing all sorts Madrassas either as a way to find recruits to fight Soviets (plus Chinese and Indians) or cause trouble so another excuse to spend tax money on the military-industrial complex; eventually having the impoverished Iranians invade Saudi Arabia and other emeirates and zero out the latters' bank accounts, just like financing communist revolutions to overthrow the extremely wealthy Czar and etc. a century earlier, and financing BLM/AntiFa and etc. to destroy middle-class society in this country.
2704   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 10, 12:21am  

Drug Addict invades Detroit Trucker's Cab.



Note she has that same scream intensity modulation as the Queer EU Trans Contestant. Witchcraft!

Fortunately this guy is General Jehu.
2705   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 10, 12:24am  

socal2 says


Oil producing Muslim countries got insanely rich in the late 20th century (both in oil price and volume) thanks to Western technology, labor and demand. I also know alot of people who worked for oil companies who lived years in Saudi Arabia's gated communities to manage the oil field because the Saudis were too stupid and lazy to do manual work.

Facts.

Reality says


The game was to keep Iranian oil off world market,

Yeah no, that's definitely NOT what the US wanted to happen. It's what the USSR wanted though. They were so high off it they decided they could invade Afghanistan. The Sauds then made up the impact by cutting oil prices to the bone.
2707   Patrick   2024 Jul 10, 2:02am  

socal2 says

Islam is the ultimate mind virus that ruins civilizations and anyone unfortunate enough to live next door. The religion is incompatible with any sort of free and tolerant society.


@socal2 I strongly agree.

https://www.fluechtling.net/Islam/islamic-memeplex.html
2709   gabbar   2024 Jul 10, 5:10am  

Patrick says

Islam is the ultimate mind virus that ruins civilizations and anyone unfortunate enough to live next door. The religion is incompatible with any sort of free and tolerant society.

There is a war going on now between Islam and every free and tolerant society.

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