patrick.net

pkowen says

I guess it’s the weather.>

I am thinking of camping all my life in CA. :)

bubblesitter says

pkowen says

I guess it’s the weather.>

I am thinking of camping all my life in CA.

I am thinking of living in a teardrop trailer.

http://www.teardrops.net/

In one of my condo properties in Old Pasadena the three highest expenses for the HOA are earthquake insurance, two full-time maintenance people and water (hot included). The earthquake insurance alone costs $40,000 a year to cover 100 + units and that is only the structures, bridges, parking garage, etc., and then you have gardeners twice a week, electricity to power 100s of walkway/porch and parking garage lights, pool people twice a week, cleaners twice a week, garbage pick-up 3 times a week, $34,000 a year for a management company, etc.

The earthquake rate went down two years ago from $70,000 so there was no HOA fee increase for that year. It's not cheap to run a complex in CA and maintain a $600,000 + reserve fund.

Why? Cause they can. Most HOA's have less to do with taking care of the common good of the community and more about making money. And why? There big money in it. With sweet heart deals for sub-contractors charging inflated fees for work to "special" assessments that cost every homeowner in the development thousands of dollars. In many cases it's not event he HOA board that running things they are manipulated by lawyers and the HOA management company to do pretty much what they want. The Management company are the masters, HOA are puppets and the average HOA resident are sheep to be fleeced.

Most HOA's are determinable to the community then a benefit. There's a few links of out of control HOA's.

http://www.ccfj.net/HOAEagleRes.html

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/real-estate/homeowner-horror-stories-associations-are-heaven-or-hell.aspx

http://www.city-data.com/north-carolina/6461-hoas-horror-stories.html

http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/src/news/sub/qa/action/ShowMedia/id/1041

TechGromit says

Why? Cause they can. Most HOA’s have less to do with taking care of the common good of the community and more about making money. And why? There big money in it. With sweet heart deals for sub-contractors charging inflated fees for work to “special” assessments that cost every homeowner in the development thousands of dollars. In many cases it’s not event he HOA board that running things they are manipulated by lawyers and the HOA management company to do pretty much what they want. The Management company are the masters, HOA are puppets and the average HOA resident are sheep to be fleeced.

My folks live in an HOA area, total f******* nightmare too. Money gets spent frivilously, questionnably. You get liars and swindlers who try to gain the system constantly.

Scary part is that it's basically a representation of federal government corruption just on a much smaller level.

bubblesitter says

I am thinking of camping all my life in CA.

Move into a foreclosed home, I hear it takes 6 month for a sheriff to show up.... which means you just move to another house next door.

Why are we paying so much for earthquake insurance in California? In an event of a major earthquake, everyone will make a claim, so the insurance company would not be able to pay everyone, and they will go bankrupt. So, earthquake insurance should be much much cheaper than what these companies actually charge, because they are really not insuring you.

Insider info. 90% of HOA money go to administrative/staff salary. Only 10% actually spent on fixing stuff, insurance etc...

My friend is working in a HOA office for over 10 years. It's a rip off for sure. That's why I bought my house in non-HOA area.

dunnross says

Why are we paying so much for earthquake insurance in California? In an event of a major earthquake, everyone will make a claim, so the insurance company would not be able to pay everyone, and they will go bankrupt. So, earthquake insurance should be much much cheaper than what these companies actually charge, because they are really not insuring you.

If they went bankrupt that means they weren't charging enough. If they were charging enough they would have the reserves to pay all claims in full.

I think this is comparing apples to snozzberries. Maybe if you live in the sticks you only pay $300/year in the east. But if you're talking D.C., north Jersey, NYC, it can be easily 400+/month for HOA fees. For the most part, expensive areas have expensive HOA fees.

I guarantee you HOA doesn't cost $400/month in Dirtville, CA.

dunnross says

Why are we paying so much for earthquake insurance in California? In an event of a major earthquake, everyone will make a claim, so the insurance company would not be able to pay everyone, and they will go bankrupt. So, earthquake insurance should be much much cheaper than what these companies actually charge, because they are really not insuring you.

Oh they won't go bankrupt. What happened to AIG? In America everything is on tax payer, I am learning that in hard way after analyzing the causes of slow down turn...that has rewarded the deadbeat mortgage takers and punished the renter like me for not buying into bubble level property. So why are we still cursing Stalin?

I was an HOA president for 2 years in CA. I think some of these have been already said but here's why I think California is so much higher then other states:

1). Earthquake insurance - We paid $36k/yr for 64 condo units. I never wanted this but it was voted for anyway. Complete waist of money
2). California Liability - People are sue happy here making liability cost more. Owners would file claims on the HOA insurance to get a free renovation to their neglected unit!!
3). Management Companies - The higher the fees, the more they make
4). Cost of living
5). Age of Units - Fees are DIRECTLY related to how old the units are

NEVER BUY a unit with an HOA if the renter/owner ration is anything above 20%!!!! The more renters, the greater the cost to maintain the units.

kronicade says

1). Earthquake insurance - We paid $36k/yr for 64 condo units. I never wanted this but it was voted for anyway. Complete waist of money
2). California Liability - People are sue happy here making liability cost more. Owners would file claims on the HOA insurance to get a free renovation to their neglected unit!!
3). Management Companies - The higher the fees, the more they make
4). Cost of living
5). Age of Units - Fees are DIRECTLY related to how old the units are

Why more expensive west of the Bay vs East Bay ?

Percection of higher incomes. Something that didnt exist pre-bubble era(s). The costs in Santa Clara County 3x more vs Fremont yet COL, Earthquake, Age, Liability is no different.

dunnross says

Why are we paying so much for earthquake insurance in California? In an event of a major earthquake, everyone will make a claim, so the insurance company would not be able to pay everyone, and they will go bankrupt. So, earthquake insurance should be much much cheaper than what these companies actually charge, because they are really not insuring you.

Your right on spot here. The dinky quake that occured in 1989 actually bankrupted many insurance companies. Which led to higher temp sales taxes. Given the even highly inflated prices today, insurance companies will be unable to foot the bill and require a tax payer to bail out. It would be a dreadful mess.. lasting years and mega billions $$, which no one has.

Another reason you shouldnt have highly inflated prices in Bay Area.

You should look at HOA fees in NYC. Over 1000+/month even in the outer boroughs.

TechGromit says

Why? Cause they can. Most HOA’s have less to do with taking care of the common good of the community and more about making money. And why? There big money in it. With sweet heart deals for sub-contractors charging inflated fees for work to “special” assessments that cost every homeowner in the development thousands of dollars. In many cases it’s not event he HOA board that running things they are manipulated by lawyers and the HOA management company to do pretty much what they want. The Management company are the masters, HOA are puppets and the average HOA resident are sheep to be fleeced.

CaffeineAddict says

You should look at HOA fees in NYC. Over 1000+/month even in the outer boroughs.

Pretty hefty in the DC area as well.

It's a risky thing, not being able to ask the HOA Management in these communities to change how much they charge yearly. It's easy for them to take advantage. It's important to be able to trust your HOA executives. Trust me, there are some that are worthy of your trust.

thomas.wong1986 says

kroni

Not sure, I was in Southern California

francophile100 says

I’m on the board of my condo assoc. in San Jose. We’re volunteers and we’re not ripping anyone off. The sheer volume of hyperbole by non-involved parties on this topic is pretty surprising. Let’s just say my real life experience is completely different.
It’s hard for many people to compromise and work collaboratively in groups, but the effort is worthwhile. If you know that’s your personality type you should not own property with an HOA.

To his point - my buddy is the president of his HOA. He lives in 2 bed condo in Santa Monica, CA in an 8 unit building. Each unit pays an HOA of $400.00 a month. For that, they do NOT have:
- Pool/Spa/Hot Tub
- Fitness Center
- Tennis Courts

What they get for that is:
- Building Insurance (I think it includes earthquake insurance)
- 2 Phone Lines (1. Elevator. 2. Automatic Door Open Pin Pad)
- Water and maintenance of around 3 Feet of green plants around the perimeter of the building.
- Property Management Company that apparently sends letters.

Apparently, all this adds up. So while I cannot say that an HOA fee is a rip off, I will say that it is a huge cost that must be factored in when making a purchase decision.

What a lot of people don't realize is that the smaller the complex the more the individual owners have to bare the cost. Say the property pays 300 dollars a month to light the place at night... Well if you only have 8 units that's pratically 1 persons dues. God forbid you have some delinquent owners. Add your insurance which is probably 13-15k a year for around 8-10 units and you are looking at around 145/owner per month just to cover insurance. Another 300 in landscaping. Keep in mind hoas don't just pay for building insurance. They also pay for general liability, directors and officers, fire, etc. then you got to store in the reserves for roof replacement and repair, repair of other items in the complex. Possibly even termite fumigation depending on the hoa. A roof replacement for an 8 building unit is probably close to 50k. So the hoa has to be saving that money up the whole time.

FortWayne says

Move into a foreclosed home, I hear it takes 6 month for a sheriff to show up.... which means you just move to another house next door.

Only 6 months???

zzyzzx says

FortWayne says

Move into a foreclosed home, I hear it takes 6 month for a sheriff to show up.... which means you just move to another house next door.

Only 6 months???

6 months until the first contact. Then you got 2-3 years before you really are forced to move. If you are lucky more. I know a few friends that are saving a tonne of money living rent and mortgage free in the bay area. Lucky bastards...

CaffeineAddict says

You should look at HOA fees in NYC. Over 1000+/month even in the outer
boroughs.

I don't live in a condo, but my sub-division is an HOA (just outside of Houston). I thought my $500 a YEAR was high, but you folks are making me feel that it's REAL reasonable, wow.

I don't know exactly where in "back east" you are talking about.
But HOA fees in South Florida can be as high as $700 a month.

bubblesitter says

pkowen says

I guess it’s the weather.>

I am thinking of camping all my life in CA. :)

That's already what home ownership in CA is.

I saw a condo HOA raised its fees because the whole structures are made of wood, and also walls have a wood cover.

20yrs after being built, dry rot started spreading and it had to be replaced at huge costs. Especially if it starts going into the internal structures. Now, a more or less permanent rolling replacement of the wood is necessary.

Back in the days, they used slow growth redwoods: trees that grew slowly undercover of other trees before reaching full size. The wood core was hard and rot resistant. As a result you see old houses from the 40's and 50's in California with the original wood.

Now they have trees that grew in the open (after clear cuts) and I heard were injected some kind of growth hormones. The trees grew super quickly and the lumber is soft, rots easily and is a delicious snack for termites.

Be careful not to buy structures in wood built after the 80's unless it's covered with stucco or other material. Or buy it new and sell it before it's 20yrs old.

The wood houses built in Florida from the late 20's through the late 40's were all built using Dade county pine. It's rot resistant, and the resin gums up termites digestion so much so, they can't get hold to colonize the structure, before they all die out.

Just found the monthly fee at Greenbelt homes for a particular one 2BR is $566/month. That's in Greenbelt, MD

Now they have trees that grew in the open (after clear cuts) and I heard were injected some kind of growth hormones. The trees grew super quickly and the lumber is soft, rots easily and is a delicious snack for termites.

Be careful not to buy structures in wood built after the 80's unless it's covered with stucco or other material. Or buy it new and sell it before it's 20yrs old.

Replace the damaged wood with wood treated with boron infused glyceol (e.g. Boracare) and spray existing undamaged woods with this compound. Such treated wood becomes insect, rot AND fire resistant for the life of the wood provided the wood does not become so waterlogged so as to leech the boron out of the wood. Structural integrety of the treated woods is not compromised.

There are a few vendors which can supply pre treated wood but I can't remember them at the moment. If I remember correctly this pretreated wood was slightly more expensive ($1/sqft) to use thanks standard wood but IMHO the benefits were worth it.

What does Boron infused wood have to do with HOA fees?
And how does one get new home builders to use it? I'm inclined to think they they won't unless they are made to.

sbh says

They don't inject second growth timber with hormones

Or just use them in fertilizer?
http://www.amazon.com/SuperThrive-1-qt-Superthrive-Quart/dp/B0002N5E6A

sbh says

if not for managed stands you wouldn't have a house, printer paper, or something to wipe your ass.

I don't object to toilet paper, I object to the fact that an apartment costing close to a $million is made of materials with a life time of 20yrs, and everyone seems to think it's normal. A scam within a scam.

I guess that's part of the general trend of everything going to shit. (and not just the toilet paper)

zzyzzx says

What does Boron infused wood have to do with HOA fees?

And how does one get new home builders to use it? I'm inclined to think they they won't unless they are made to.

It has to do with HOA fees being raised to pay for the replacement of rotted wood. Using boron/glycerol treated wood prevents this type of damage and eliminate the associated fee increases.

And yes you have to specify the use of such wood in the contract and the treatment of components that may not be able to be constructed from treated wood.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-07-08/news/0007080139_1_borate-lumber-termites

HOA's are non profit. Small complexes can often be self managed , which is a huge commitment that the board makes to their community with no thanks and lots of gripping. Our dues are 345/mo but we also pay water and gas to heat the water . Complexes where each unit has their own water heater and pay for their own water, are paying at least $130/mo for hot water.

Since the Davis Sterling act, HOA have had to place much higher priority on funding their reserves to insure that they can respond to emergencies. We have a small 6 unit complex with no pool or amenities, but our Reserve study verifies that we have $127,000 in capital items that we need to budget to replace some time or several times over 30 years.

The guidelines say that we need to have 30% of that amount saved in the reserve fund if we want our units to be eligible for some government first time buyer loans. Which make our units more attractive . The only way to get those dollars in reserve is to carve out dollars from the monthly dues for the reserve fund. So you not only have to pay for current maintenance but you also have to somehow save for the reserve as well.

Living in a Townhouse or condo doesn't mean that you have no responsibility for maintenance outside your unit. You still have to participate in the cost of maintaining the property. Try to guess what it would cost you per month if you were trying to maintain a single family dwelling.

If you think dues is so outrageous, you should volunteer to be the treasurer for your HOA. Then you can see how difficult it is to balance all the priorities and make sure you don't have to assess your homeowners for a big emergency bill.

Who the hell are you, the local NAR representative?

We are seniors. Years ago, mobile/mfg homes were supposed to be the answer for retirement because taxes were too high to pay for our homes that we paid off. We could no longer afford to live in our homes that we maintained for over 30 years. We moved into a manufactured home because there are a lot of problems with mobile home. We have had multiple problems with the mfg. home. Our HOA dues started at $$750/mo and was raised to $800/mo. What happened to the CA law of only 7% hike a year. We live in a nice park. There are only 21 units. The owner maintains our yards, we are responsible to 10 feet around the house. When we moved in, our lawn was already burnt. The mower blades are probably set too low. Our garbage is paid for, but our cans are too small. We were paying a minimal fee of $5/mo until CA was declared in a drought. Our fees went up $45.00/mo. How can a senior citizen live out their retirement anywhere. Medicare pays less; we are forced to have a supplemental insurance. If we need to be in a nursing facility past our 90 days, we are forced to get Medi-cal. If we have too many assets, we have out-of-pocket fees for Medi-cal. In the nursing facilitiy, if you are on Medi-cal, you are treated less than those who have private insurance. When is this going to stop? HOA fees, taxes, insurance on your health, home and car, food keeps rising. No wonder people are leaving America and Canada to live in other countries. We are fortunate to have what we have, but what does our future look like? We barely live now. We are not prepared for any emergency. Families are starting to live together, creating a real crunch for us all. OUR HOA FEES GO TO OUR LAWN, MINIMAL GARBAGE COSTS AND HIGHER WATER FEES. OUR PARK DOES NOT HAVE A POOL OR A COMMUNITY CENTER. OUR FEES ARE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN ANYONE I KNOW. CAN'T THERE BE A CAP???

Why are you still there, Annie? HOA fees are and should be a definite consideration in your choice of homes. I live in a townhome with an HOA but we have a pool/spa, a clubhouse, and free garbage as well as outdoor grounds being maintained and outside home repairs done when needed. The community is gated. Our bill is $310/month.

I'll chime in one more time. HOA's in and of themselves are not really the problem, it makes perfect sense to have an organized group looking out for the best interests of shared walls, roofs, and common space. Where things go downhill is generally the insurance, management company and the percentage of renters in a given complex. I'll say it, renters just don't care about a unit or complex like owners. Some might, but from the dozens I've seen most do not.

I have seen BEAUTIFUL retirement communities that are 50+ years old with a very low HOA fee. The reason I think these places do so well is the owners working with one another and the low number of renters.

Old thread, but I still have nothing but contempt for HOA's.

Folks if you read this, avoid any HOA like you would avoid plague. These people will ruin your lives, trample on your freedom and if you don't play nice with the board will make your life difficult just because they are vindictive assholes! At least most are.

FortWayne says

because they are vindictive assholes! At least most are.

No they will all be eventually.
My Brother in law lives in Red Hook New York, he owns a huge lot with a house he put on it. A few years after he built his house on that plot of land that had been in his family for a few generations.
The nieighbors came to him and talked him into agreeing in forming a "HOA" for the growing community. It started out fine until personal neighbor issues started arising. Then those that are on the board started using their power as a weapon to be the supreme final word on every neighborhood personal dispute. Not even home owner stuff. Things like someone's feelings got hurt because someone wasn't invited to a function or something as petty as that. The people on the board or those friends with people on the board, would fabricate issues to harass the residents that they were at odds with.

Every HOA I've ever seen is an out right abuse of power and is unneeded. Especially when you already should have local ordinances that specifies what you can and can't do with your property.
You certaily don't need Bill Smith making up new rules as he goes along, and defend them with poorly written vague contract clauses.