patrick.net

LOL DinOR. That salespitch is even easier. How much is your current housing payment? Well with the Kangaboom RV you can have all the conveniences of a house, live in high cost areas for and easy $800 monthly payment.

Boomers don't add all of those other costs you so elequently mentioned, we just have to sell them on the payment. If they ask about gas, the answer is "Well, how often do you move your house around? Think how expensive it would be to move your stucco house just 100 feet? With this RV you just turn it on and drive to the new location. It's a no brainer."

Oh, you have to have some jocky looking former athlete boomer telling them the pitch in a tough guy voice. For some reason boomers seem to love having these guys talk down to them in the marketing.

Malcom,

www.the7thfire.com/debt_elimination/mortgage_elimination_proof.htm

That should get you started.

Administrator Says:
February 29th, 2008 at 9:05 am
"Hey, I got a 76 on the Canada test! I feel wanted, in a good way. The score is probably due to my wife’s education, but whatever."

My girlfriend's early childhood education certificate puts me in the mid 70s, we'd probably have to get married. I'm a 69 without it. Like I said before I squeak by, thanks SDSU!

Peter P Says:

> Where have all the blog trolls gone?

The number of "licensed real estate professionals" in California went from about 300K to over 500K in the last few years so at the top of the bubble we had about 200K people who had never sold a home sitting in open houses with nothing to do but blog on their laptop or Treos trying to make themselves feel better about their decision to leave a job with a steady paycheck for the “big easy money” of real estate. Since I have been a "licensed real estate professional” for over 20 years and spent three years actually selling investment property full time I know that the money in real estate is rarely as “big” or as “easy” as people think it will be and I’m certain that most of them are back doing a job that does not give them the time to blog. I suspect that many more former REALTORs © will soon join us to talk about the bubble as bears…

@Malcolm: I love StickItToEm.com, but the name needs to address any possible feelings of guilt borrowers may have about sticking it to banks (silly, but there are those who think banks are people).

Maybe something like defendYourRights.com, so they can feel they are the ones being attacked, rather than the other way around?

Spin like that worked for the war in Iraq (we attacked Iraq, but spun it completely the other way) so maybe we can learn something from Bush...

Some webmaster in Canada is scratching his head wondering, why is there all of a sudden a spike in people visiting the site?

I agree, that's why I like this group because it is a good brainstorm session. I actually like that name better, I'd be astonished if there are any domains avaiable even remotely resembling it. Damn lawyers! (Dennis excluded)

Just FYI: the AARP already has a petition to SUPPORT the bailout.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/747606327

Home Foreclosure Crisis can be Stopped! Support S. 2636 in This Week's Senate Vote

Dear Senator [Name],

I am supportive of S. 2636, the Foreclosure Prevention Act, and in particular want to emphasize our support for Title IV, which would allow families in bankruptcy to modify their home mortgages through the courts. This provision is a commonsense solution that will help families save their homes without any cost to the U.S. Treasury, while making sure that lenders recover at least what they would have in foreclosure.

Abusive lending practices and slumping real estate markets are causing hundreds of thousands of American families to lose their homes to foreclosure. As devastating as foreclosures have been to date, the worst is yet to come. Foreclosures are expected to accelerate dramatically during 2008, when interest rates are scheduled to rise on a large number of loans.

This nationwide crisis affects not only individual families, but neighborhoods, entire communities, and our national economy. One solution to this serious problem is to give people on the brink of losing their homes more flexibility to restructure their loans in bankruptcy. This solution would not let people "off the hook" in paying their full mortgages; it would simply allow them to work with a judge to figure out how to pay what they owe while staying in their homes. The bankruptcy safety net that permits loan modification to save a yacht, vacation home, commercial real estate or family farm currently is not an option for a family seeking to save a primary residence. In a manner that is both fair and also urgently needed, S. 2636 would eliminate this inequity in the treatment of American homeowners.

It should be understood that the narrowly crafted remedy contained in S. 2636 does not reopen the Bankruptcy Act of 2005. Rather, it addresses 1978 bankruptcy legislation that excludes loans for primary residences from those loans that may be modified in a Chapter 13 bankruptcy. At that time, mortgage loans were nearly all fixed-interest rate instruments with low loan-to-value ratios and were rarely themselves the source of a family's financial distress. This is no longer the case. Preventing the modification of home loans for primary residences makes no sense in an age of subprime exploding ARMs where the mortgage itself causes financial crisis.

While the various voluntary programs that the industry has announced in recent weeks and months are a welcome acknowledgement of the magnitude of the situation, they do nothing to negate the urgent need for this legislation.

[Your comment here]

I applaud you and your colleagues for addressing the foreclosure crisis with the urgency it deserves. I support the court-supervised modification section of S. 2636 and urge speedy passage of this urgently needed reform.

Sincerely,
[Your name]
[Your address]

Sorry to multi-post, but the above is why we need something opposing the bailout.

They have 7,667 signatures already.

mbwd Says:
February 29th, 2008 at 9:10 am
"Speaking of idle talent on this website, does anyone have any ideas other than to leave the country??"

I don't know why but I started laughing uncontrollably when I read this. The statement is kind of funny just as a stand alone.

The basic premise of "mortgage elimination" is precisely what that Wisconsin couple claimed in their recently established class action suit.

During the closing process the title company and lender break so many FHA, Truth in Lending Laws etc. that once brought to their attention they will buckle rather than pay the hefty fines for each infraction. I have spoke w/ this individual and he claims there are typically anywhere from 10 to 30 infractions in the avg. mortgage paperwork.

(His theory not mine) but... interesting!

Oh, correction, not mid 70s, it was just a 2 point gain which was a 71. Sorry, I don't want to embelish my Canadian score.

Canada doesn’t want me…I scored a 62. I got zero points on age: at 55 I’m too old for them.

Dennis, you are still single, right? Canada has some of the nicest women. :)

"other than leave the country??"

Completely unnecessary! Buy a houseboat in OR (no sales tax) moor it at Lake Meade (No NV income tax) I'll commute to Vegas before I'll take up Curling.

mbwd,

No matter how creative we get, the fact is that losses leading to bank failures will eventually fall on the taxpayer's shoulders. There is no reason to modify a nonrecourse loan, the bank can voluntarily take a short sale or can take the house back, their choice. This plan only adds risk to banks with no greater benefit to anyone. It is wrong and will make things much worse if a bank can't rely on a fixed note balance on a secured asset. This would open up the possibility of all sorts of abuses, and will cost more in the long run as they build the risk into pricing if they even bother to continue lending to the average Joe for a home purchase.

mbwd,
I apologize, I thought you were posting in support but reread your post below.

For anyone serious about getting out, I'd suggest once the fan start blowing stuff around it may be too late to escape anywhere. If a herd forms, which is the likely scenario should law and order evaporate, the US passé Porte may find visas difficult to come by. Perhaps the contractors building our Great Wall at the southern border, whose pilot just failed key measures and has been put on hold status btw, should begin business development efforts in Mexico City immediately.

The time to make any of these kinds of hedging arrangements is now. It’s very complicated and difficult to relocate permanently even in these times. I can’t imagine too many countries will be welcoming to Americans after a small herd of expat boomers forms. Anti-immigration sentiment against the obese Americans will run deep everywhere.

My personal two cents is that it will not get quite that bad here, even after losing the banking system, and a significant stock market meltdown. Too much valuable infrastructure here, lots of sideline capital will go to work, and the government LE community has become very technologically adept at quelling public disturbance and manipulating public opinion. Crime and poverty will skyrocket, the gap between wealth classes will grow into a canyon, and standard of living will decline, but we live in a very interesting time and place with a very malleable population that might easily be repurposed on a grand scale.

What will the life at home and abroad be like if the hawks get their way and we end up in Syria, Iran, Pakistan, or any combination of them? I can't get a handle on how much of this resource shortage stuff is real, but it is certain that food, energy, and water scarcity has the potential to cause massive instability in third world governments all over the world. And soon. Where is it safe to be in that type of environment?

FAB,

Yes, they WILL be joining the Bear Ranks! I'd LOVE to see a Realtwhore's version of "License To Steal" ( a supposed expose' of the brokerage industry ) that really was more of a composite of urban myths.

Still and all it was an easy read filled w/ inaccuracies and half-truths yet well rec'd by the public. Time for a REIC Edition!

No problem Malcom.

I agree with your post.

Let's do something to get that message out and into the media.

North,
I thought that too. It is the same Johnnycomelately mentality. We've already missed the window for a good exchange on our money, and I imagine the line is longer now than before. BUT, it hasn't become hip quite yet so maybe it is a good idea to get in line now for when things really are bad. I was seriously viewing the $500 application fee as an insurance policy. (BTW, this is a classic example of how you have to beat the herd)

Ug, leave it to the boomers to make Canada hate us as well. No offense to anyone but the age thing on the application is probably a subtle message. Sorry.

Is it safe to assume that the most derivatives-laden banks are the safest?

I suspect that many more former REALTORs © will soon join us to talk about the bubble as bears…

I suspect many already have, just as obviously some bears have capitulated and bought homes in the past couple years. Not that I blame them, if I'd pulled the trigger -- and we were all tempted if we are honest with ourselves -- then I wouldn't bother blogging about it anymore either.

This is why I'm pretty certain when I call out bullshitters on other forums like the infamous Zillow discussions. When realty types are crowing about how much money they're making investing & selling and such you can be certain the opposite is true. Anyone making money in RE today is necessarily working their living ass off.

I am happy to see that the level of discourse seems to have returned to one of reasonable civility around here. All the klan this and aryan nation that was a bit too much to take.

I am happy to see that the level of discourse seems to have returned to one of reasonable civility around here.

Some comments were so detached from reason that I just saw them as comics.

I am a big fan of Canada. See, I am not a blind market fanatic. :)

I think social engineering may work, but only if you have few people sitting atop a colossal pile of natural resources. It is like brothers gentlemanly sharing a huge inheritance.

Damn lawyers! (Dennis excluded)

Poll time. Which is worse about me?

1) I'm a boomer.
2) I'm a lawyer.
3) I live with several cats.
4) I took Patrick.net consensus advice and sold SJ crapshack in May 2006.
5) I took advantage of Prop 13 for 25 years but now want it repealed.
6) Now that I'm not working I want the Dems to bill the Gen Xer's for national health care

Anyone making money in RE today is necessarily working their living ass off.

Again, wit and luck are all important. Don't forget that the top of the food chain has access to hundreds of thousands of newbie wage slaves.

Dennis, one of my best friends is a boomer lawyer.

I live with several cats.

I have always been RENTER.

I would have taken advantage of ANY advantageous legislation if possible.

It is all natural to stick-it-to-em.

You are not so bad.

I was contacted this week by two newbie executive technology recruiters. Both were peddling real estate two or three months ago. I got the distinct impression they both were lost in the woods. I suppose a reasonable place to put those skillsets to work, but I suspect they don't see the wall rapidly approaching that business either.

I am thinking about getting a real estates license just for the fun of it.

I'll answer with my own poll:

Which is worse about me?

1) I’m a boomer despising Xer.
2) I’m a tech & finance entrepreneur.
3) I live with a large dog who hates cats (actually he passed recently).
4) I like to start fights with people on Patrick.net.
5) I want Prop 13 repealed, no exceptions. One reason is because I believe it will unburden high net worth personal state income taxation and corporate state taxation.
6) I think boomers should be afforded nationalized, free healthcare. The hitch is it must all be purely naturopathic from locally grown herbs. The evils of antibiotics, antivirals, vaccinations, splints and casts, aspirin, and back pain cremes will be reserved for my son's generation.

How is this for an effective protest against the bailouts:

I will set myself on fire and burn to death outside the white house/NAR/other government building.

I even just sent in for one of those $40 coupons good for a basic ATSC tuner, even though both my sets have one. www.dtv2009.gov I'll plug it into my spare-parts stereo in the garage for when I'm working on the car. Is this an abuse of the system? These coupons, like Prop 13, were billed as being "so poor granny's TV won't stop working next year".

Maybe I shouldn't mention that my federal income tax for 2007 got beaten down to around $750 total. :) With the GWB "stimulus" rebate, that should get down to around $150 net.

Sometimes I just feel guilty gaming the system.

I will set myself on fire and burn to death outside the white house/NAR/other government building.

A bunch of Buddist monks in Vietnam tried this, and see what it got them.

Sometimes I just feel guilty gaming the system.

Huh?

@Randy

Which is worse about me?

#2 for sure. Small dogs who hate cats are much better.

Dennis has followed my 'boomer retirement plan' exactly.

Who can blame them? (Dennis how much pot did you smoke while dogding draft? hehe)

Lots of doom and gloom posts today. I do not think the nation will collapse, just a reset in material standard of living. Not of the Mad Max variety, but more like the 1950s-1960s lifestyles of one car per family, smaller houses, shared rides to work, home economics like meatloaf, etc.

When Hurricane Isabel passed by here, it knocked out power for over a week. Nobody had A/C, cable, or nintendo. The result was kids went outside to ride bikes and play ball. Adults went out on the porches (too hot indoors) and actually got to know the neighbors. We shared cooking on gas grills, and one guy with a generator kept food frozen until needed. People took walks and got up and went to bed earlier. After the power came back, people went back inside and resumed their previous lifestyles with TV, A/C, lights, and kids on video games.

Maybe the "recession" will have the same effect as Isabel. People may stop spending all their time chasing material toys and put more emphasis on other aspects of life.

@DennisN,

Since you're a regular member of this blog and have common sense, you qualify for Un-Boomer(tm) status.

Headset,

Nothing like a good old "typhoon party" now is there? I happen to think it will be more like the 70's (only without all that funky music) You'll see more people that have "living arrangements" and we'll all wonder why a single gal "needed" a 3,000 sq. ft. home in the 1st place?

For the most part, this "recession" we've all been dreading/fearing will be more about jettisoning a bunch of cr@p we didn't need to begin with like a "special" pre-school for the twins and elective surgery. Some recession.

The anti boomer rantes go too far. I seem to remember the boomers said 'dont trust anyone over 30' now the next generation bashes them. Pretty normal.

IN OTHER NEWS los angeles is crashing crastacularly.

SF Valley (porn captal of the world) down 24% in 7 months.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2008/02/valley-meltdown.html?ref=patrick.net

LA times blog is totally bearish on RE. lovely to read.

Right when HARM moves to bay area, LA crashes. He is probably bringing it with him -its probably infectious that way -.