patrick.net

marcus says

But you are so sure that a woman aborting her zygote is murder that you are against her having that option.

There are laws against murder already. There is no need for a law against each, seperate form/type of murder. This is an example of black and white works just fine. If purposely killing an unarmed, naked, blind, handicapped, deaf, mute human that is 1 minute old, or 1 month old, or 10 months old, or 100 months old, or 1,000 months old -- if that is murder ... then so is killing the same human at any time shorter than 1,000 months, 100 months, 10 months, 1 month or 1 minute old. Doing abortions on a regular basis, targeting a particular sect of the population, should qualify the people that run abortatoriums for being tried under "hate crime" laws. They are making a living by murdering babies, just babies, and that shows premeditation and a bias -- an obvious hate crime if the babies were a protected class .... like sexual deviants, for example.

marcus says

MY whole point is when is it morally acceptable to kill a person for stealing from you? And your answer is that it depends on the individual’s call.

I think we may have to back up just a little bit first. Do you believe in capital punishment? I do. Do you believe that some people are just bad people and should be removed from society? I do. Do you believe that the value of the targeted item of theft should be the basis for defending the theft of the item? I do. But, the victim should have the right to place the value of an item, and also be given the choice to forgive a crime alltogether. I am pro choice for the victims.

What you may be suggesting is an item under $X is fair game, but at $1 more than $X there should be consequence. I disagree. If you have only one $5 bike and that is your only way to work each day -- that bike is worth more to you than a $50K BMW is to a rich person with 200 of those $50K BMW's in their yard. See where that whole concept of "gray" causes an issue? Poor people should have just as much protection from theft as rich people. $500 of petty theft could equal a months wages for alot of people. But, one month of a BayArians wages might be $10,000, and would be grounds to get a thief shot. So, a thief that only takes the life savins from poor people will not be a felon, but will be destroying lives.
Say no to gray!

Anyways, this has been great. Next subject!! lol

Bap33 says

Life begins when two cells join, create a new cell that splits and will keep splitting until you see a person. The point of conception begins the creation of a new, seperate, unique DNA paterned, life — but that is just my opinion. I think the Hebrew law says within 28 days of conception there is not a life yet. Not sure.

WRONG!
Life begins when the kids leave home and the dog dies. G'night everybody! I'll be here all week - don't forget to tip your waitress and try the veal!

elliemae says

try the veal

Nice.

marcus says

Nice.

@marcus (and I realize that we agree on this issue, but am asking anyway):
about grey areas... if I did order the veal and a starving man stole it before I had a chance to eat it - is he guilty? How about if I don't like veal? does that change his guilt or innocence? If I haven't ever had veal, but abhor the thought of a baby calf in a teeny cage, unable to move until it's killed for its tender baby meat - does that change things?

What if it were a loaf of bread and I was on a diet and the guy wasn't hungry - but his children were? If I weren't on a diet? What if his children were well fed but he needed money for child support so that his daughter could take dance lessons, grow up & marry a man who would take care of her so that her children wouldn't starve?

There are alway grey areas. Life isn't black & white (to me).

lol