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Banks pay no property tax on foreclosures?


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2008 Jun 23, 6:56am   27,666 views  320 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

On Jun 23, 2008, at 11:49 AM, A Guy wrote:

Long time reader...and, luckily, a renter here. I would like to bounce an idea off of you. I hear that foreclosed properties don't pay prop taxes. Is that true? If yes, then is there any way you can use your contacts/site to support the idea that municipalities impose regular prop taxes on empty houses. This would:

  • increase holding costs, forcing trustee to sell more quickly, driving home values to normalized pricing levels more quickly
  • help neighborhoods by 're-populating' them more quickly
  • reduce the unfair concept that only owner-occupied houses bear the tax burden
  • ultimately deter speculation
  • reduce likelihood of municipalities facing bankruptcy

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Phil

Thanks Phil,
I've heard that as well, but it's hard to believe, since it would be so unfair that banks pay no taxes while everyone else has to.

The idea of using property tax to keep things fair (and eliminating income tax and sales tax entirely) is an old one, but not yet tried anywhere. Henry George proposed it more than 100 years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

I'll make a post out of this.

Patrick

#housing

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153   Peter P   2008 Jun 25, 4:22pm  

No Heller today. Crap…..

The decision should be out soon, right? Let's keep our fingers crossed. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

154   Different Sean   2008 Jun 25, 10:38pm  

hmm, it's been very quiet and peaceful here without me, I see...

By a coincidence I was just looking at the Mercedes-Benz diesel-electric hybrid setup for the Sprinter platform the other day, and there were a few slides of PHEV analysis by Drs in the field...

Main problems hampering efficiency in the Prius are the sheer weight of the heavy battery and electric motor combination. That's why some diesels are just as economical. And the reason for the weight is that current battery technology still can't deliver power without size. The best performer for the application is a lithium-ion battery, but it is also currently v. expensive to produce -- and hence the fuel savings can be outweighed by the initial cost of the battery over the lifetime of the battery and/or vehicle. However, with time, mass-production will bring the price per unit down.

You can charge a lithium-ion battery some 3,000(?) times, I believe, far many more than a lead-acid battery, and it potentially will last up to the effective lifetime of the vehicle.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/hybrid.html

155   Different Sean   2008 Jun 25, 10:40pm  

oh, and that was Jeremy Clarkson from 'Top Gear', a lad's show about cars. Clarkson is about as redneck as a Brit can get ; )

156   Different Sean   2008 Jun 25, 10:56pm  

STCM:
I’m more likely to buy an electric bicycle, or conversion kit. I commute by bicycle a bit today, about half of the time when the weather’s nice enough. If I had electric assist I’d probably bike to more places, and in somewhat warmer weather (I’m in Phoenix).

try my favourite: http://www.aerorider.com - it's costly, but the guy is seeking VC to try to build more cheaply say in US... anyone able to help?

157   Duke   2008 Jun 25, 11:36pm  

Looks like my models are gathering steam.

DOW at 11,600
Fed rae increases being facored in as 33% chance next meeting, 96% probable meeting after that.
Write-offs at 400b but expected to go higher
Case=Shiller showing retrace ending early 2010 back to Mid October 2000 levels.

158   Malcolm   2008 Jun 26, 1:57am  

ShortTermCapitalMgmt, now that you mention it, I recall thinking the price was pretty affordable so it might have been 10 or 14 thousand.

159   Malcolm   2008 Jun 26, 1:58am  

So, the mortgage bailout is going to be paid by fees from Fannie and Freddie?

160   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 2:35am  

Rejoice! Rejoice! Heller won.

Today is a great day for freedom and liberty.

161   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 2:45am  

Although most presidents are just politicians, today and yesterday's Supreme Court decisions illustrated the importance to have conservative appointees and hence conservative appointers.

How is death penalty a cruel and unusual punishment for child rape? I think it should be the punishment for all kinds of rape. Execution is certainly not cruel. Besides, if we widely apply capital punishment it will become very usual.

162   Richmond   2008 Jun 26, 3:55am  

Hey Duke,

Wasn't it you that called the DOW at 11,500 a thread or two ago.
You may have missed it by a few days but it still counts. Good job.

163   jtfrankl   2008 Jun 26, 5:28am  

Bap33,

I would really like to see a source for point #3. A hi-po motor is designed for a completely different purpose than a high efficiency motor. If you build a motor with huge displacement/power and then run it at 55 mph, the throttle body/intake/exhaust will be too big for efficient power at low RPM. Modern engine management and valve control techniques can make up for some of that, but there will also be a lot of extra surface area that takes away from efficiency (more cylinders and larger pistons/valves = extra friction, extra cooling surfaces). The Corvette ZR1 makes over 600HP, and a ton of effort was put into making it "green", but it still barely makes over 20mpg highway even with a huge overdrive 6th gear.

Also, rotary engines have horrible MPG and reliability in addition to emissions problems. They are a solution to a problem that never existed.

164   Duke   2008 Jun 26, 5:37am  

Any way I can find that old thread? I did not take notes on my year end prediction. . . (how can I search the archive?)

165   Richmond   2008 Jun 26, 6:22am  

Once the mass is moving, one of the largest uses of energy is from pushing the air out of the way. The other is rolling friction. It still takes X amount of energy to move X mass to X volocity. Forget hills. If your driving habits are a constant, it's a wash. You go up. You come down.

Aerodynamics are a good place to start. A pound of air is 13.39 cubic feet @ 72F. Not a large volume. On your commute to work, you are pushing hundreds of thousands of pounds of air out of the way. If that load could be made insignificant, milage would skyrocket.

Small, high HP power plants could get the mass moving yet use little fuel to maintain motion. Coupled with decreased drag, boom, there you have it.

There was a guy in Modesto who took a Geo Metro and fitted it with aero skirts and was documented getting 50-60 MPG @ 65 MPH. He got over 70 MPG driving like a granny.

Not bad when you consider that the stock milage was in the high thirties.

166   DennisN   2008 Jun 26, 6:55am  

What's most shocking is Breyer's dissent in DC v Heller.

"The reason there is no clearly superior, less restrictive alternative to the District's handgun ban is that the ban's very objective is to reduce significantly the number of handguns in the District, say, for example, by allowing a law enforcement officer immediately to assume that any handgun he sees is an illegal handgun. And there is no plausible way to achieve that objective other than to ban the guns."

DC v Heller, Breyer's dissent, pp 32.

If there's any reason LESS appropriate for violating a Constitutional right than THE CONVENIENCE OF THE POLICE I'd like to hear it.

For by this logic, we should let the cops beat a confession out of an obviously guilty criminal, the 5th Amd. be damned. Similarly, the cops should just round up all the young black men near the scene of the crime, the 4th Amd. be damned.

167   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 7:04am  

Dennis, it was a 5-4 decision. Let's hope that the next Supreme Court judge is appointed by a conservative president.

It is fine to confer death penalty to innocent unborn children for their mothers' promiscuity, but it is NOT fine to sentence convicted child rapists to death.

What kind of world is this?

168   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 7:11am  

Anyone read this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0385511841

I saw it in a Borders and I could not put it down before finishing a whole chapter.

169   OO   2008 Jun 26, 7:11am  

EBGuy,

H3 has a special notice today for applying new seasonal factor and break factor. Is that an official notice that Fed will start "massaging" ugly H3 number?
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h3/Current/
details here
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h3/hist/annualreview.htm

170   Richmond   2008 Jun 26, 7:18am  

Gun bans only keep the guns out of the hands of honest, law abiding, people. They have no effect on criminals. And it doesn't matter if a gun is legal or illegal as far as the cops are concerned. They'll put a bullet in your head and run the serial number later.

171   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 7:18am  

For by this logic, we should let the cops beat a confession out of an obviously guilty criminal, the 5th Amd. be damned. Similarly, the cops should just round up all the young black men near the scene of the crime, the 4th Amd. be damned.

That would be wrong, Dennis. By their logic, criminals are true victims. :roll:

172   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 7:20am  

Gun bans only keep the guns out of the hands of honest, law abiding, people. They have no effect on criminals.

But many would argue (implicitly) that criminals are really the same as honest, law abiding, people. They even have more civil rights than you and me because the society has somehow wronged them.

173   Richmond   2008 Jun 26, 7:24am  

Peter,

You speak the gospel.

174   joelkton   2008 Jun 26, 8:25am  

Bab33: "When they really want mileage, they will no longer have power anything, no roll up windows, just plexi-glass that you slide manually. No AC. No power steering. no power brakes. no extra exhaust pipe. no radios. manual crank wipers. no cigerett plug and ash tray. A body like a salt-flats racer. No comfort, just MPG. Just the basics … like a 1944 Jeep. When I see that, I’ll think “ahhh, mileage”

Just for fun, I removed the back seat of my Camry the other day; I never use it. 60 pounds gone. I took the center console out, too, but put it back, it weighed only two pounds and is sorta useful. I will soon jettison the ashtray, glove box, air vents, etc. Anything easy to get. I thought about having the AC removed, but it would probably more money than I ever save from the weight reduction. Motors from the back door windows might be fairly easy. Lose the spare tire for a can of sealant perhaps.

My point is that I think more people are starting to take such things seriously.

175   HeadSet   2008 Jun 26, 8:34am  

Duke says:

Case=Shiller showing retrace ending early 2010 back to Mid October 2000 levels.

But I like this even better from Seeking Alpha:

You've all probably seen or heard about the recently released Harvard Housing study. Among other things, the report discusses the fact that the median wage-earner is unable to afford the median priced home and forecasts a drop in real estate prices to the 1999 level.

Savers gonna party like its 1999..............

176   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 8:35am  

Savers gonna party like its 1999

Like it is 1999. Then comes 2000...

177   DennisN   2008 Jun 26, 8:58am  

In case anyone hasn't read DC v. Heller yet....
www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

178   DennisN   2008 Jun 26, 9:01am  

Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism" is a great book.

The author has a blog here:

http://liberalfascism.nationalreview.com/

Jonah says the blog has been up for a few months and he may take it down soon.

179   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 9:02am  

Anyway, I expected the Supreme Court to issue a 9-0 decision because the Constitution was so clear about the right to bear arms. A 5-4 decision does not offer much comfort.

180   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 9:03am  

I will definitely visit his blog. Thanks!

181   DennisN   2008 Jun 26, 9:07am  

Peter,

Read the opinions. They all agree it's a personal right of individuals. The dissenters just think that the right is thin enough to encompass handgun bans.

182   Peter P   2008 Jun 26, 9:13am  

I will read the detailed opinions tonight.

183   Richmond   2008 Jun 26, 9:20am  

"Then comes 2000"

Ya haaaaaaad ta bring me down, didn't ya. :)

184   DennisN   2008 Jun 26, 9:21am  

Load up your printer. It's 157 pages long. But it's worth it to have a paper copy in order to study it properly.

185   HeadSet   2008 Jun 26, 9:27am  

I did read about how Virginia residents licenced to carry in VA were getting arrested for having a gun in their car when pulled over on the interstate in DC. I presume that will no longer be an issue.

186   Paul189   2008 Jun 26, 11:02am  

@hittybank down 1.18 to 17.67

Skankamerika down 1.80 to 24.81

What does a GM bailout look like?

GM down 1.38 to 11.43

Precedent is set, Chrysler and Bear = GM MUST BE SAVED!

187   Paul189   2008 Jun 26, 11:04am  

Seriously-

I don't have the answer and nobody is talking about it! Anybody, what do you think a GM bailout looks like????

188   Paul189   2008 Jun 26, 11:05am  

Also, does C and BAC end up in JPM?

189   Paul189   2008 Jun 26, 11:05am  

Does JPM become the USA bank!

190   Paul189   2008 Jun 26, 11:11am  

Merge all US auto makers and name them AmCar

Merger all US airlines and call them AmAir

and finally fund passenger rail in this country and call it success!

191   Busted   2008 Jun 26, 12:26pm  

Great call, Duke on the 11,500. At the beginning of the month I said there's no doubt we'll test the year's lows. Now, that we're testing them, I got the funny feeling the lows will not hold.

It's too bad that a nice guy like Skibum appears to have gone to the dark-side and bought an over-priced piece of crap Bay Area property. My wife and I will buy when the Case-Shiller shows a 25% decline. It's pretty apparent now that we have a lot further to go. I say Case-Shiller will drop 25 - 30% nationally before prices turn up. At 25% we may be 5% too early, but that's a risk we'll take. It's looking like we have a year and a half more to go. Winter '09-'10.

192   LowlySmartRenter   2008 Jun 26, 1:33pm  

I haven't read this thread fully, but the question I want to ask the Libertarian breed here is how would you see 'fees' being used to pay for our current 800+ fires burning in California? If the forrest is on fire, and there are no structures there for which a paying customer would provide the fees (and the State is not gathering the dreaded 'taxes' to pay the costs), then who exactly pays to put those out? Do we just wait for the fires to reach actual homes before the fire fighters get engaged with these 'fees'?

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