patrick.net

>> you think Obama is going to downsize government?

I doubt it .....

If you hate mortgage banksters and Realtwhores for exploiting people's emotions for a home, read this article. It will make them look like petty thieves compared to our esteemed population of Washington DC.

The Fannie Mae Gang
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121677050160675397.html

They are raping us and telling us that its for our own good.

You can bookmark this for some unforeseen future need to induce vomiting.

I have every reason to think that the financial mess that our country is in will be job one for Obama. If taxes have to go up, so be it.

I don't have any respect for someone who thinks that smearing someone with their own brush is contributing to healthy discourse. TOB sounds and acts like a hit and run thug, complete with threats.

There is just no talking sense to you TOB. This is an election, and people say things. What is so shocking? I could say that John McCain supports amnesty for illegal aliens and has a drug adict wife and childeren of other races. Does that make it true?

The federal budget and deficit have risen consistently in the Bush years, and it is certain that the day of reconing is approaching.

So why do you say that Obama is the next phase in big government? This makes no sense, since the current pumping does not seem sustainable.

This is the same Big Government lie that is repeated so often. Just a trired cliche and talking point, with no meaning behind it.

It looks like Surfer-X also now has a gig writing for the Guardian.

www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/23/mediamonkey

FWIW, there was also a bit a speculation in Los Banos real estate due to the specter of high speed rail. Currently, AB3034 has passed the Assembly and gone to Senate. A bill from Assemblywoman Cathleen Galgiani, D-Stockton, would begin to address some of the most pressing problems with the rail system. It would placate some environmental concerns by excluding the possibility of placing a rail stop in Los Banos (Merced County), with its protected grasslands. No train station, for you!

So what? McCain wasn't born in this country -- he was born in Panama, and probably does not even fit the minimum requirements spelled out in the constitution. Just for your information, if you look around, you may notice that there are many people who haven't grown up in this country either.

A politician who is a liar? Say it ain't so. Yes, Clinton was a great liar, but he at least inspired investment in the US due to good financial housekeeping.

Yes, I read it. I observe a year when the deficit was $17 billion.

$17 billion? When the headline today is $490 + 80 billion that they are not even counting? You are complaining.

[Insert repeated republican slogan and talking point here.] But you are "independent." Wink.

I have another interesting statistic about the Clinton years.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average went up by 8000 points under Clinton.

I have a prediction about the DOW. I will soon fall below the 10,587.59 on the day that Bush took office.

Tell me what terrible managers the democrats are again.

The abiding lesson here is what happens when you combine private profit with government power. You create political monsters that are protected both by journalists on the left and pseudo-capitalists on Wall Street, by liberal Democrats and country-club Republicans. Even now, after all of their dishonesty and failure, Fannie and Freddie could emerge from this taxpayer rescue more powerful than ever. Campaigning to spare taxpayers from that result would represent genuine "change," not that either presidential candidate seems interested.

I see. McCain's military skills got him captured and held prisoner for five years. I think that is just the kind of leadership that we need in wartime.

Obama learned the Koran? And ths is a disadvantage in the Global War on Terror because...?

I remember John & Robert Kennedy, which is why I can actually hope.

It seems that responsible sellers now have another thing to compete with thanks to this administration. Here is a link to the housing bailout plan. In it there is a $7,000 tax credit for buying a foreclosed home. Again I have to restate that this is a bank bailout, not a home debtor bailout. Someone selling a house competing with a comprable bank owned house now has to drop their price $7,000 below the bank's asking price.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR03221:@@@D&summ2=m&

Reading one of the news links today, I saw that the estimate now is 25 million homeowners are potentially upside down. Basically this means that suddenly the problem has just multiplied 10 fold because originally there were only 2 million homeowners at risk. I might add that pretty much all 2 million eventually did go into foreclosure.

Sorry, I look forward to peace and prosperity, respect by the world and financial discipline that involves more than making sure that wages decline. With all due respect, if you don't like it, tough shit.

Someone selling a house competing with a comprable bank owned house now has to drop their price $7,000 below the bank’s asking price.

At least there is the silver lining of a $7k downward pressure on houses, adding to the real affordability.

So, does that mean a first time buyer who is buying a forclosed house gets $14,000 in tax credit?

It's $7500.00 max and they have to pay it back to the tune of about $500.00 a year added to their income tax if I understand it right. It ain't no gift.

I see, more like an interest free loan.

Something like that, I tried to find the article that I read so I could link it, but it's long gone and I can't seem to find it. I'll keep looking.

For the 1st time buyer of a forclosed home, it seems:

$7,000 tax credit for the forclosed home part

Up to $7,500 15 year interest free loan (principle delivered as a tax credit) for the 1st time buyer part.

To actually use a tax credit of $14,500 would require a Federal Taxable Income of around $90k, assuming no MID or medical deductions.

I am interested in that credit. I see the dollar going to hell fast. If I can make use of the money now and pay it back with depreciated dollars, this could play to my advantage. I see America being looted all around me and feel now I may be stupid and regret it latter for not grabing what I could when I had the chance.

I have been saving money up for the last 4 years for a down payment and have enough now to get about a 150k home with 20% down. With the crap in this bill I could get 20% "down" on a 200k home.

This money was not easy to save. It is amazes me how people are so cavalier about money when they would have no hope of ever saving that much on their own. They have no problem barrowing and spending it however.

I live in Ohio and meet the above in Headset's post. I have to run the numbers on my discounted cash flow spreadsheet, but under the inflation rate of 10% a year (realistic amount), I could come out ahead.

Neutron,

That just might work. Neat idea. I like it. The one problem is the equity give - back. Any equity you earn, should you sell or re-fi, is split with Gummy Man.

100%, 0 to1 yr.
90%, 1 to 2 yr etc. until you get to 50% and it stays there.

To actually use a tax credit of $14,500 would require a Federal Taxable Income of around $90k

That's OK, President Obama will push up the poverty threshold to about that figure.

Some days I just don't understand finance.....

Jean-Pierre Buttplug is in bankruptcy, so he figures out the way to recover is to sell $670 Million in bonds to shrewd investors.

www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/454155.html

Why would anyone want to buy his bonds? :?

IIT student commits suicideAds By Google

A fourth year engineering student at the Indian Institute of Technology in Kanpur committed suicide by hanging herself in her hostel room, the police said on Saturday.

Toya Chatterjee, 23, was a student of biological science and biotechnical engineering department. She was found dead in her room late on Friday night.

The police recovered a suicide note from the room written in Bengali. The note, addressed to her father, said: "I will not be able to get B Tech degree this year. I am ashamed of it. So I am ending my life. Take care of my mother after my death."

Director of the institute Sanjay G. Dhande said that Chatterjee was a brilliant student and had recently cleared the Common Admission Test (CAT) for admission to the Indian Institutes of Management.

But she was not keeping well for the past one year and was under the treatment of a private doctor. Due to her illness, she was not attending her classes regularly, he said.

Dhande said the counsellors at the institute had informed her father thrice about her physical health and her state of depression.

Her friends also said that she was upset over her inability to submit her project work.

This is the second suicide at the institute in the last two months. On April 8, a first year engineering student had committed suicide by hanging himself.

Richmond,

I have to give any gains to gubermint if I sell? I was planning on a long 7-10 occupancy of the home and then waiting for the dallar to inflate its way up to the current levels while I save in non-dollar denominated assets.

Why would they get 50%? After paying the credit back $500 over the next few years, I should have it free and clear of them.

Republicans are also all about change.

It is the stuff that you get back when they take your piles of cash.

Well maybe someone will really win the election this fall, instead of stealing it as was the case in 2000 and 2004.
I really don't know if anyone has any ideas which will help save us. McCain strikes me as an elitist who wouldn't know a poor person unless they bit him.
Obama is a Christian. You may not like him, but don't repeat the lie about "learning the Koran in Indonesia", what crap.
Atheism is the answer, if you want to avoid wars

Trying to pick sides between Obama and McCain is like choosing between Hulk Hogan and Ric Rude. It is mostly theatrics, and who actually wins is irrelevant.

While you debate the pointless distinction between a slug and a flea, the people behind the show get paid no matter who wins.

Case Shiller is out.

SFO index now at 162.7, down 1.17% MOM and down 22.85% YOY.
From peak we have -25.5%. Peak was May 2006.

SFO is still 40% above nominal trend-line, if 4.25% is used to match historic appreciation (Inflation plus a little) since the index was fixed to 100 Jan of 2000.

We are still on pace to return to 100% index Feb of 2010. At that time we will be 43% off peak. Since nominal anticpated loss is still near 20% down (as of today), banks will still be reluctant to lend in SFO area.

To any who now see the homes you have hoped to buy, count on putting 20% down and losing 100% of that equity over the next 2 years. This means on a $700k home, you will put down $140k and lose all of it.

Neutron,

I guess that you were looking at the Firts Time Buyers Credit, only.

I was talking about the forgivness re-fi into FHA when I opened my trap.
Sorry, two different things.

>> To any who now see the homes you have hoped to buy, count on putting 20% down and losing 100% of that equity over the next 2 years. This means on a $700k home, you will put down $140k and lose all of it.

I thought so ... means buying now is complete stupidity.

Perma,

Dunno. Many would begin to compare the cost of edcating kids privately from k-12 against the backdrop of the equity loss as a trade.

The bay area also had a run up around 1997-1998, the 2000 prices was already up by 30 - 40% compared to 1997.

I see the stock market is up today despite the latest news on house prices. I guess the logic is just too tough for Wall Street speculators to figure out so I'll help:
1) 70+% of GDP comes from consumption
2) Consumption has been supported by debt from home 'equity' loans
3) Home 'equity' is disappearing and rapidly going NEGATIVE in many cases
4) Consumption will fall as home 'equity' becomes unavailable
5) A recession, at least, is inevitable
6) Recessions are BAD for the stock market
I shake my head every day as people manage to ignore these, and many other, basic facts.

The Bay Area run-up lasted just about 10 years to be exact (1996/97-2006/07) with a brief and mild Silicon Valley-only respite in 2001-2002 due to the dot-com collapse (which the rest of the Bay Area did not experience). And the run-up, by all accounts, was tremendous and unabated for just about that entire time.

Stop debating about the next 1-term Hoover candidate, one of them may not even finish the term.

There are sure very smart (and selfish) Americans around. The fact that we are reduced to choosing between McCain and Obama means that the truly wise and big picture guys are hiding out to aim for the white house AFTER the blowup.

I can't help chuckling when I see the press talking about the "strong dollar".

Strong what? Exactly one year ago, Euro was at 1.38, AUD at 0.88, JPY at 121, oil at $76, gold at $680...

And now we have a strong dollar?

Yea - the "we already factored that in 'cause we are looking 6 months out" is getting pretty old.
Wall Streets '6 months out' is like that 50 pounds a dieter just knows they will lose in 6 months.
Simple truth: stocks AND bonds are an over valued asset class. We need the credit contraction becuase there is too much money in the system making too much stuff too dear. Stocks should represnt the real ability to provide a good or service to a consumer WHO CAN ACTUALLY PAY FOR IT