patrick.net

Hasn't anyone seen the movie "Lord of the Rings"? Man can't be put in the position of wearing the ring, because his inner self will always be revealed when push comes to shove. You say you can't imagine that and that you do put your clients interests first, but will you pull your client out of a bad deal, when your mortgage is also due, and the money must come it, or will you just let one, or two slip by? Or, will you take the bullet for sake of what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong? If you are that exceptional individual, then maybe we all need to stop waiting for Superman too, because you're already here.

Hi,

I've been reading this blog for a few years and have been looking since about 2005. Duh, to me this mess was obvious and bound to happen when hi tech people started getting laid off in around 2001 after the dot com bust lame bs. I was witnessing the carnage first hand as private equity firms bought up companies and jobs were flipped to India by the thousands at a time. I'd inherit years of other guys work and watch them leave literally crying, with McMansions and kids in college, bitchy wives too... bye. I learned not do do it, salaries were too low and at huge risk for hi tech folk. If so many of us were at risk even that was enough to start to break things down.

Anyway, it's awesome that real estate agents come here, they must HATE this site! lol

I never thought to look at the comments but I'm finding it hilarious how many reeealtors seem to come here. They must hate this site that comes up first for "housing market" in Google.

Susan, thanks for writing lengthy posting. I enjoyed reading it. Your posting cleared up some of my suspicions regarding DC housing market and what realtors think about certain things. That does not necessarily mean I agree on every point you made or I disagree on everything though, I appreciate your posting and your time here in this forum.

I think you're specialized in upper mid to high end residential property in better part of DC and northern VA, and you don't seem to mind what cloth they wear or what car they drive. If so, that's good. My wife and I went to openhouses numerous times, and what we were looking for was the realtor, not the house itself. We're blue jeans and slipper kind of people, especially in Sunday afternoon. We don't really know why those realtors we've seen so far like to talk only with those people that wore tie and shinny shoes in Sunday afternoon though, we didn't really care either.

And you know what? All the business card we recieved for years, except only 3, went directly to trash can. I think you're relatively better than most of them, and I do hope someone is keeping your card in his/her wallet.

Lol!! You write well, Solver. I will take the bullet, and have quite a few times, maybe because I'm older and I was raised with the standards of the Cleavers, Reeds and the Greggs, I don't know. If I had to depend on a pending closing for my mortgage payment, that would be my problem, not my clients'... and that wouldn't make me superman, just logical (and a bad budgeter, I suppose!)

Things seem to be a lot worse where you are and perhaps thats why I find these scenarios foreign. We're lucky to be in a region that has a consistently good market.

I don't hate this site, icape, I'm learning a lot! I subscribe to Patrick's newsletter and post a lot of his links on my site for my buyers. Thanks for letting me participate.

Well thanks, seaside! I actually specialize in the under 750K pricepoint. I spent more time this week with two 170K - 190K buyers than those in the 4's to 7's because those homes are much harder to find here. It's hard to give everyone the same amount of time every week if I just tour on weekends, so I tour 7 days a week. I'm glad my clients don't mind MY car... it doesn't get washed as often as I'd like due to the crazy schedule. My first tour tomorrow is at 8:30 a.m. an 1.5 hours from my home in seriously bad DC morning rush traffic, so I'm going to BED now! lol

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216?source=patrick.net&print=true#main

Has anyone read from one of the new links? Rolling Stone did a piece on Wall Street and Patrick just posted it.

Not to throw this forum off on a tangent, but this is a really good article. It's just to bad that that America is no longer a fair nation. Truth, justice, freedoms... are all gone. We're doomed and we allowed it all to happen.

solver says

It’s just to bad that that America is no longer a fair nation. Truth, justice, freedoms… are all gone. We’re doomed and we allowed it all to happen.

Of course America still has all of them... on it's own convenient way. :)

Convenient is right. It's to bad we can't program a good conscience into our children. Maybe then we'd have more responsible and honest adults.

Well Mr. Smart guy realtors. Why don't you tell us about Trulia and Zillow. After all your licenced Realtors. How about a little diligence here? Methinks your trying to hide behind Trulia and Zillow. Which makes you down low nasty hustlers to begin with. Don't lie. If I can track you down I would to see about your licences. Or maybe that National ASSOCIATION of realtors would like to comment the one that is an association not licenced that passes itself off like they are?

There are a few places like PATRICK.NET that really believe in free speaking. We all have sense of course. Most of us anyway. We can see that places like CNN money and the like have shut down their comment sections. Theres a reason. People are virally mad about everything thats going on. Tired of being stolen from. I suggest if you say free speech. You should mean free speech. Not free the free speech of someone yammering at us and we can say nothing back IN PUBLIC. I submit to you that many do not like the internet. All guys can like the internet of course. The stuff we look at suggests a lot of free speech. However when I run into 80 pages of patriotic BS. With absoulutly nothing of substance. I begin to wonder. Thank you Patrick.net for all you work for truth.

Well Mr. Smart guy realtors. Why don't you tell us about Trulia and Zillow. After all your licenced Realtors. How about a little diligence here? Methinks your trying to hide behind Trulia and Zillow. Which makes you down low nasty hustlers to begin with. Don't lie. If I can track you down I would to see about your licences. Or maybe that National ASSOCIATION of realtors would like to comment the one that is an association not licenced that passes itself off like they are?

susanisaacsrealtor says

I see your point about the system and I also see the potential for the conflicts you detail and for dishonest dealing. But again, not all people are the same. I’m responsible for my own actions. It’s not a problem for me to put the clients’ interests first. Sorry you can’t imagine that. I actually can’t imagine agents doing some of the things you all have described.

That is precisely the problem. A legitimate buyer cannot imagine that the buyer agent is working for him. Which means, the system is built to maximize "housing transactions" and not really supporting organic housing growth. Thats why housing price increase is a "bubble" because it is not reality.

The root cause for this housing market bubble is of course the amazing "Federal" Reserve, which has nothing to do about federal government whatsoever - the central monetary supply control system works for the private banks. The greedy real estate agents were just another players in the casino game.

Well, for all of those smart a_ses out there, I hope I'm one of the few on the sidelines bringing up your ship that goes down, down, down, this year and the next one. In this blogs case, the exceptions to the rulings here, are few and widely scattered.

You would think that the brokers would be cleaning their own houses. Unfortunately, it appears that the majority of them represent the tainted roots of their operations. Need I go further in explaining the trickle down affect of corruption as it extends outward from trunk to branch?

This blog is one of the best out there, simply because it's not full of the P.C. crap that has mummified our American heritage. Better to blow off steam here, then for Americans to start taking the law into their own hands, by hunting down those who are only getting spankings with foam padded paddles.

I don't know if anyone heard this, but I think I heard that anyone who bought a home in 2008 with the Obama Tax Credit, now has to pay it back in "X" amount of years, plus pay tax on it. Something weird like that, but I could be wrong.

solver says

I don’t know if anyone heard this, but I think I heard that anyone who bought a home in 2008 with the Obama Tax Credit, now has to pay it back in “X” amount of years, plus pay tax on it. Something weird like that, but I could be wrong.

Round one was a loan that must be paid back if you decided to take it.......why anyone would have taken a loan like that is beyond me, but that's what they're talking about. The second round of home credits were the $8,000 freebie with no payback required.

The first homeowner credit operates much like an interest-free loan, because it must be repaid over a 15-year period. So, for example, an eligible taxpayer who buys a home today and properly claims the maximum available credit of $7,500 on his or her 2008 federal income tax return must begin repaying the credit by including one-fifteenth of this amount, or $500, as an additional tax on his or her 2010 return.

rob918 says

Round one was a loan that must be paid back if you decided to take it…….why anyone would have taken a loan like that is beyond me, but that’s what they’re talking about. The second round of home credits were the $8,000 freebie with no payback required.

Why wouldn't you take a no interest loan??

tatupu70 says

rob918 says
Round one was a loan that must be paid back if you decided to take it…….why anyone would have taken a loan like that is beyond me, but that’s what they’re talking about. The second round of home credits were the $8,000 freebie with no payback required.
Why wouldn’t you take a no interest loan??

I personally do not like to borrow money or take out loans, I am a pay up front type of person (My grandfather and Dave Ramsey approach). More importantly to this issue though is that I do everything legally possible to keep the IRS out of my life insomuch as that is possible.

Mr.Fantastic says

That’s why your finances are probably in good shape, and why tatupu needs his wife to pay for “his” house.

I don't know about Tatupu finances, but he seems nice enough to me. I can only speak for myself, and the pay as you go financial philosophy has worked well for me over the past three decades. Paid for rental/income units, home, vehicles. I am 50 and retired with no worries except where I am going to travel or flyfishing next........Burney Falls, Hat Creek, Cassel as well as Baum Lake in Shasta County are beautiful and great fishing places for those looking to go fishing.

Wow this is truly disturbing.

solver says

Well, in all fairness to the realtor/brokers. There are a few good ones out there. However, it only takes one bad apple to ruin a barrel of good ones. If your roots are corrupt, then the branches are also corrupt.

Bad, unethical, sleazy agents/brokers aren't the exception, they're the norm. It's not about a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, the whole orchard is rotten.

susanisaacsrealtor says

for the most part, agents here in DC Metro seem to play fairly

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree there. Whenever I want to find out what a house is under contract for, I just call the listing agent. Most times they tell me, even though it is a clear violation of their confidentiality agreements with their clients. RE agents in this area are complete scum. And with a median sales price far higher than the national average, they're very well-paid scum. Places like Oakton, Vienna, Mclean, and Arlington are typically $500k-$800k single family homes. What exactly does a selling agent do to justify a $24k commission? How does the seller feel about that? And the buyer as well.... $48k in commission for transferring properties. The magic of the NAR-cartel!

If anyone suspects collusion, or just something crooked going on with their realtor, or broker, you might want to visit this site and report them.
http://www.dre.ca.gov/
Also, here's the Stat of California's Office of the Attorney General
http://oag.ca.gov/consumers
If anyone knows of another governing body that is above them, then please share.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Here's a link for California law codes. There must be something on ethics violations. It only takes one small hook to land a big fish.

Write to the AG office directly:
http://ag.ca.gov/contact/complaint_form.php?cmplt=PL

I just sent my complaint in and I'm sure if we all pass this out and if everyone puts action to the words that maybe something can be done about this loaded dice in this game.

Americas corruption is starting to make Mexico's look half way decent. At least we know where Mexico stands. Here in the U.S. the same things are happening, only it's on a level that nickels and dimes us to death. They're making damn sure that our middle class is reduced to indentured servitude for life.

We pay their paychecks with our tax dollars and that makes us their bosses. If you don't take a stand for the smaller things you believe in, then we're all doomed. We should be able to demand an investigation into the outrageous and corrupt practices that are preying upon all of us and this arena is one hell of a nice start to wage combat in.

As they say in the series "Spartacus". We should stand for our house. Our house is America and all that it represents.

susanisaacsrealtor says

I see your point about the system and I also see the potential for the conflicts you detail and for dishonest dealing.

It's not the potential. It's that the system works in such a way that the conflicts of interest are inherent on so many different levels. It's so very corrupt. For instance, what incentive does an agent have to show me a house that's only going to give them a 2% commission versus another that offers 4% commission? What if the one offering more is a lesser deal? Sure, I can do my own homework, but the agent is completely motivated to change my mind and stubbornly oppose my purchase of the lesser-commission house.

A rotten system with extremely low barriers for entry and a monopoly on the market is guaranteed to screw over people on a daily basis. It's the norm, not the exception.

klarek says

solver says

Well, in all fairness to the realtor/brokers. There are a few good ones out there. However, it only takes one bad apple to ruin a barrel of good ones. If your roots are corrupt, then the branches are also corrupt.

Bad, unethical, sleazy agents/brokers aren’t the exception, they’re the norm. It’s not about a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, the whole orchard is rotten.

This is true. The whole, "One bad agent ruins it for the rest" is a complete falacy. Quite the opposite is true. Trying to find a decent agent is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Here's the scams that I've found out about. Keep in mind that FHA takes more work on their behalf.
1: Holding from the MLS
ie- The listing agent/broker... get the client for the property. Lets say for $250,000 that's owed to the bank in a market that commands about that, or a little more. They do not put this on the MLS, instead they hold it in their pocket until they're able to find a cash investor, if they do not already have one ready.

The investor comes in with the intention of making money. They need a price that allows them to profit. They make a sideline deal with the broker and maybe even the appraisers. The deal is to pay them out 5k to 10k in cash... outside of the commission that's paid to them on the lower amount.

The broker and maybe even the bankers in charge are probably in on it too. 5k to 10k worth of easy cash for simply moving a number. They make a full commission on the smaller overall amount plus their cash kickbacks then they would have otherwise if they had to split the commission on a larger amount.

Then after they have the deal already squared away, they list it on the MLS to be fair (LOL). You and I the FHA buyers... of the planet log on to the MLS and spot it and it says BACKUP OFFERS ONLY, OR THAT THEY ALREADY HAVE AN ACCEPTED OFFER ON THE TABLE.

What's rigged about this?
Well, the dice are loaded from the get go. You and me and everyone else do not have a fair opportunity to bid on it and since we're not padding their pockets with cash and because it takes more time to process our paperwork, we're inevitably forced into the SILENT BIDDING WARS.

I found a property that was valued in the 300ks. The literal moment that I caught it on the refresh of the MLS it was listed for far less in the 160 range. Our broker called up on it for us and they already had an offer. We ran the comps and they came in the high 200ks, to low 300ks easily at the time. Well, the place sold for like 170k cash. The new purchaser turned right back around and listed it for $329k. I believe it's still listed.

Even my broker said that it was a pocket deal. The other party would not comment about specifics on the property. I can even supply the addresses with all of the CoreLogic information on it. It's all a scam.

THIS IS LOADING THE DICE. YOU COULD NEVER DO THIS IN VEGAS WITHOUT BEING KILLED, OR GOING TO JAIL. Now, I ask, where is our law? Where is our Attorney General? THIS IS BID RIGGING AT ITS BEST!

Is this a trick or just unbelievable stupidity? A house up the street from us sat on the market all last year for $239k, no takers, and then was lowered to $210k. The sign came down around Christmas and I checked to see the sale price, but it hadn't sold ("Listing Removed"). This month a new For Sale sign goes up, and the flyer says the previous owner left major remodeling projects unfinished, and they're asking $249k. So I'm confused: You can buy a brand new, bigger house, with everything finished, for less; the house didn't sell at $210k; and now someone is supposed to be dumb enough to buy it for $39,000 more?

@solver

>If you don’t take a stand for the smaller things you believe in, then we’re all doomed.

I agree. In New Zealand, I felt that people hold politicians, etc.. more accountable than Americans do in the US.

The only other thing that I can express is this. In the past it was an APPRECIATING MARKET with an appreciating mindset.

However, today is a DEPRECIATING MARKET with an appreciating mindset that has yet to convert from once was to what now is.

500k today, 400k tomorrow, 200k in 12 months and God only knows where in 2012. If you shop and shop and shop and never buy you'll be back in the APPRECIATING MARKET with the appreciating mindset again. At some point you need to take the plunge and ride the wave.

That being said, this depreciating market has only just begun. What we experienced in 2008/9 was only the teaser trailer. This is not just a big wave for the Kahuna to ride, this is an F__ing Tsunami coming.

Ride this wave to soon and you will be crushed. If you ride it to late, you will miss it and have to wait one hell of a long time. If you ride it somewhere in the middle, at the right time, you will have the ride of your life without a crash and burn. Either way, it will be scary, but you'll survive.

The realtors/brokers/bankers all have that appreciating mindset no matter what the economy is. That's there bread and butter. Really, I dislike almost all of them, but there are a few good ones in the mix. I think there personal goodness is extended from being human like us. Just remember that they too have a mortgage to pay too.

There's a root, a trunk, a branch and the result. Everything starts at the root. Even in the banking system there is the same hierarchy. The real crooks are at the roots. Who the hell is calling the shots and playing chess with the American people using us as pawns for their game and sacrificing us to win.

These power brokers must really have a trick up their sleeve.

There are four people in this game.

Seller. Seller's agent. Buyer's agent. You the Buyer.

Only one of these four is bringing money to the party. That would be you, the buyer. The objective of the game is for the other three people to end up with as much of _your_ money as possible.

You do the math.

And yeah, every goddamn real estate agent I have met is a lying whore. All the "rules" they make up are for their own benefit. So factor that into the analysis.

Honest people make terrible salesmen. So you rarely see them in that role.

Thus the problem is structural and permanent.

susanisaacsrealtor says

Ok guys, I give up trying to convince you that all real estate agents aren’t corrupt or evil! They’re aren’t, but I can see your minds are made up. I am not, btw, “employed” by a broker. We are independent contractors who rely on our repuations for referrals. That is how we make a living. Here, anyway, reputation is very important. My license is held with a boutique DC brokerage that would sever a relationship with any agent who DID do the things you suggest in this blog. Marketing is one thing, breaking the rules, laws or acting in an unprofessional manner is another. I wish you all luck and hope things improve for you soon. : )

Susan, people are greedy. Conflict of interest makes it that much easier.

Robert--

I actually agree with you on this one. It probably would be a good idea to change the way real estate is bought and sold, but my lord. There are like 5 threads devoted to calling realtors various names or detailing how exactly to torture them. I think it's time for some of the posters to grow up.

OUCH. I'm so sorry that almost everyone here has had a bad experience with realtors. I feel your pain as I read through your stories and remarks. However, I always believe there are two sides to a story. ALWAYS.

I'm a realtor and I don't feel that I'm anything near what you guys have describe realtors to be. I also know many, many great realtors with great intentions as well.

I choose this profession because first and foremost, I like people, I like people in general(over all), I do care for people and I tend to stay away from people lack integrity and are shelfish. I like to help people and I'm a giving person. I'm very confident that it's a great profession for me because I feel I'm very qualified to help people, I've been in the business of serving people all my life. I think it's a great match for my passion and my ability. I believe people could benefit from me as a Realtor.

I know and I'm sorry that some of you have been burned by Realtors and car sales People, but please remember that Realtors and car sales mens are people too. Seriously, most are just decent people trying to make a decent honest living. You'll always have a few bad ones that ruin it for the majority of the people, but don't blanket them all to be bad. Most don't deserve it.

I'm not a shelfish person and I believe I have a lot of integrity and I'm a realtor. There are many like me out there. Many that do actually care about people and care about their customers. They work hard to earn your business and keep your business.

Please don't blanket us all as Realtors are bad. We are not all bad. Just a few. -Cathy

Somebody paid 250,000 to live in Lancaster in 2011? Did you fall for that "this is the bottom, buy now or be priced out forever"?

I know this thread is old, but if you haven't bought anything in Lancaster consider yourself lucky. The way that place is now, I wouldn't go there if someone even paid me to live there.

robertoaribas says

I got my license, partially to help spanish speakers who I saw victimized in the buying process most often by lenders, and partially for my own investment activities.

Rob just be honest about it, you did it because you wanted to buy rental properties without paying a middle man commission. Nothing wrong with it.

Salesmen never "help" people. at the very best they can be neutral, neutral in the way that they could do some of the legwork for you after taking your likes and wants and compiling a list of appropriate products and make them accessible to try out/view. For that work you may pay them a small commission, maybe at a regular hourly rate - that's it. Any other bonuses usually come from the party interested to sell, so maybe the seller can define an additional "sales bonus" if they like, but that is completely optional (as it is for any company selling stuff). Taking a couple % of the price from the buyer AND seller where both don't have any saying and cannot make adjustments (or not pay out at all if the service was unsatisfactory) is just criminal and far from "helping people".