patrick.net

Or, just do like my friends. Rent an apt., send the kids to So. Pas. schools, save even more money that way...

Mr.Fantastic says

Except that 50% of the homes sold in the past 12 months in South Pasadena (as reported by RedFin) were under 800k.

Oops.

Oops...I was quoting YOUR statement that "The median household income in South Pasadena is only $80,412, and the average owner occupied home is over $800,000."

That'll teach me to take a genius's word for granted.

Mr.Fantastic says

The median household income in South Pasadena is only $80,412, and the average owner occupied home is over $800,000. 10x the median household income? You think that’s a wealthy enclave? BS. That’s a neighborhood of pretenders and future foreclosures.

Mark_LA says

Mr.Fantastic says

Except that 50% of the homes sold in the past 12 months in South Pasadena (as reported by RedFin) were under 800k.

Oops.

Oops…I was quoting YOUR statement that “The median household income in South Pasadena is only $80,412, and the average owner occupied home is over $800,000.”

That’ll teach me to take a genius’s word for granted.

Mr.Fantastic says

The median household income in South Pasadena is only $80,412, and the average owner occupied home is over $800,000. 10x the median household income? You think that’s a wealthy enclave? BS. That’s a neighborhood of pretenders and future foreclosures.

But actually, you were only off by $50k...out of ALL 181 Single Family Homes SOLD in South Pasadena in the past 12 months, they averaged $750k @$430 per sq. ft. To get a loan for a $750k home, you still need to make ~$130K+, which makes you upper-middle-class or wealthy:

thomas.wong1986 says

Liz Pendens says

“Forgive me, I must start by pointing out that three years after our horrific financial crisis caused by financial fraud, not a single financial executive has gone to jail, and that’s wrong.”

Who do you want to put in jail and why ?

Heh - Maybe Mark LA should lead the frog march? After all, check out the picture... and his alias IS two of Angelo Mozillo's initials backwards... :-)

sigh- But no one's gonna do that, though.

Do have to say i was surprised they actually pressed charges against Michael Perry...

Mark_LA says

you still need to make ~$130K+, which makes you upper-middle-class or wealthy:

That's interesting.

Mark_LA says

PasadenaNative says

It’s certainly more yup scale here now than it was when my dad bought our place in the ’60s. Used to have lots of blue collar home owners around. Once the school district became “highly rated”, home prices jumped. All of my friends that have kids here rent apartments.

Not only did South Pasadena become “highly rated”…most of the surrounding nightmare bloated bureaucratic school districts like LAUSD became “horribly rated”, so a lot of people that would’ve bought somewhere else all of a sudden will pay a premium to be able to send their kids to a good public school. It makes financial sense vs. paying for private school, or sending your kids to a bad public school…of course, if you can afford it.

That just doesn't make sense to me. And I'll explain my position. This is what I remember from the bubble in another neighborhood.

I remember during the bubble years we were visiting our friends who live out in Old Agoura and there was this strange phenomenon in a nearby area called "Agoura Hills". There was this street called Grey Rock Rd which had houses priced in mega millions, while just 200 feet away were apartments which were still in late 300's and eventually bubbled to I think 600k or something.

It seemed like some sort of real estate hype scam, since they both were going to the same school. But 200 feet makes apparently drew a magical line there. It didn't make sense. It's same people, same air, same neighbors, and same schools. Just some real estate hype that probably will/has run it's course.

Liz Pendens says

Heh - Maybe Mark LA should lead the frog march? After all, his alias IS two of Angelo Mozillo’s initials backwards

Yes Liz.. Angelo is a good start. But you can see there was lots of corruption with Angelo and members of Congress. You would think people like Dodds and Franks who serve on the Committee with oversight on Banking would think twice regarding having a conflict of interest.

Mark_LA says

A picture is worth a thousand words:

Mark,

Which site did you use to pull up the arial view of a city with each school scored?

Thanks,

Rob

Mr.Fantastic says

What was that about South Pasadena being an enclave for millionaires where prices don’t fall because everyone wants top public schools

I never stated it was en enclave for millionaires (I would only count net worth of $5 million+ as California Millionaires, $1 million net worth doesn't cut it here due to the high cost of living). An enclave for that would be Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Malibu, the nicer parts of Pasadena, San Marino, and La Canada would also be included. Very little of South Pasadena would be included.

Millionaires don't need a good public school district, they send their kids to private schools. Someone who makes $130k-$180k per year is upper-middle-class, not a "millionaire". In California, they can afford to buy a home in a good school district, but not send their kids to private school.

rob918 says

Mark_LA says

A picture is worth a thousand words:

Mark,
Which site did you use to pull up the arial view of a city with each school scored?
Thanks,
Rob

Redfin.

Liz Pendens says

Heh - Maybe Mark LA should lead the frog march? After all, check out the picture… and his alias IS two of Angelo Mozillo’s initials backwards

Haha - What's your avatar of? It looks like a cross between Richard Simmons and Nicole Bass.

Mr.Fantastic says

True, but you did say that “South Pasadena’s Bubble has shown no signs of deflating”, but you just (perhaps unwittingly) showed that median home sale prices did drop, by about $50,000 between 2009 and now.

Wow, that's great news for me since it's one of the places I'm considering purchasing in the next 1 to 2 years :)

Mr.Fantastic says

Why don’t you buy now? You don’t want your kids in those piss poor schools, right?

My oldest is a 2 year old toddler, plenty of time to time the market just right.

Mark_LA says

Haha - What’s your avatar of? It looks like a cross between Richard Simmons and Nicole Bass.

Heh.

I have no idea, frankly I was looking for a screaming pic on Google. Was the best i could find. Heh.

Mark_LA says

Mr.Fantastic says

Why don’t you buy now? You don’t want your kids in those piss poor schools, right?

My oldest is a 2 year old toddler, plenty of time to time the market just right.

So you are betting on housing to go down until your little one is ready for primary school. Isn't it?

Pasadena is bizarro-land. It wants to be 1910 quaint but with contemporary hipster parent attitudes. Yet, please, I can shop at Banana Republic and pay $12 for mediocre ice cream cones anywhere in SoCal--what's so special about Pasadena for that?

Oh, yes, school districts. The children!, the children!

We only go to Pasadena when we want the "How Fake is LA" tour to extend another couple zipcodes when friends are in town and can't believe how much soullessness there is.

SF ace says

Mr F living in Irvine, you should know Irvine has fantastic schools in a setting built for children. But boy, that drive highway 5 north/south to/from LA is brutal with no alternatives.

Life is brutal. If your kid cant handle the streets, you think he/she will be able to handle the work environment when they hit the career track.

bubblesitter says

So you are betting on housing to go down until your little one is ready for primary school. Isn’t it?

I could afford in 2006 without funny loans and a good DTI ratio, I can afford today as well. The current price of homes in good school districts is fine for my income. If it goes down further, then of course, I love a good deal as much as anyone else.

I would like to see RE prices flat or up at least at the same pace of inflation year-over-year for 18 months in a row before I purchase my next home, which will likely be where I stay at least until my kids start college. That'll tell me we're past any fake bottoms in the market. Even if I miss the exact bottom by a bit, it won't matter because I'm purchasing a home to live there long-term, not as an investment.

Mark_LA says

bubblesitter says

So you are betting on housing to go down until your little one is ready for primary school. Isn’t it?

I could afford in 2006 without funny loans and a good DTI ratio, I can afford today as well. The current price of homes in good school districts is fine for my income. If it goes down further, then of course, I love a good deal as much as anyone else.
I would like to see RE prices flat or up at least at the same pace of inflation year-over-year for 18 months in a row before I purchase my next home, which will likely be where I stay at least until my kids start college. That’ll tell me we’re past any fake bottoms in the market. Even if I miss the exact bottom by a bit, it won’t matter because I’m purchasing a home to live there long-term, not as an investment.

Okay. According to some here the market is flat since early 2009.

Mr.Fantastic says

SF ace says

Mr F living in Irvine, you should know Irvine has fantastic schools in a setting built for children. But boy, that drive highway 5 north/south to/from LA is brutal with no alternatives.

True, Irvine has been voted as the top safestest city in the U.S like 2 or 3 times now, and the school district is excellent.
Technically you can get to L.A by the 405 and 5, and yes if I did commute to L.A, it would be brutal, but I’ve had an office building in Tustin (Neighboring city) for about 20 years now. It takes me about 10 minutes to get from my house to Tustin, which I do about 1-2 times a week.

I wouldn't live behind the Orange Curtain if you paid me to. Way too Republican for my tastes....

SF ace says

You worry about the carrer track if you are even on the track first. Handle the streets will not help you get into Goldmand Sachs, Google, or any of the top 100 companies listed by Forbes as best places to start a career.

Like the Bronx maybe!

CEO of Goldmand Sachs...
Lloyd Craig Blankfein
Born September 20, 1954 (1954-09-20) (age 56)
Bronx, New York, USA

Mr.Fantastic says

PasadenaNative says

Mr.Fantastic says

SF ace says

Mr F living in Irvine, you should know Irvine has fantastic schools in a setting built for children. But boy, that drive highway 5 north/south to/from LA is brutal with no alternatives.

True, Irvine has been voted as the top safestest city in the U.S like 2 or 3 times now, and the school district is excellent.
Technically you can get to L.A by the 405 and 5, and yes if I did commute to L.A, it would be brutal, but I’ve had an office building in Tustin (Neighboring city) for about 20 years now. It takes me about 10 minutes to get from my house to Tustin, which I do about 1-2 times a week.

I wouldn’t live behind the Orange Curtain if you paid me to. Way too Republican for my tastes….

That’s funny coming from someone who claims to live in South Pasadena, aka the HQ of SPRWF. I kid.
Yes, Irvine is much more conservative than most areas in the state, but it’s also safer, has a high level of educational attainment, and people here enjoy a higher quality of life (Irvine Median Household Income: $107,821 vs South Pasadena: $80,412). It was also voted #22 on CNN Money’s Top places to live, a list you probably will never see South Pasadena making:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2010/snapshots/PL0636770.html
You can’t really compare the two cities.

I know, So. Pas is even too conservative for me, but, it's where my parents settled...they have both passed on and I have taken over ownership. I like Seattle and Portland, myself, and I feel plenty safe in So. Pas. Plus, I'm childfree so I don't have to worry about schools and shit.

I abhor CNN "Money."

Well, I like CNN money.
But this particular CNN article losts me when it listed Ellicott city, MD as #2.
It's quite nice place, but #2 in US? I wonder what would be the criteria CNN is using.
If it is # of mean bitches in population or something, I can rate my area as #1 in US. :P

seaside says

Well, I like CNN money.

But this particular CNN article losts me when it listed Ellicott city, MD as #2.

It’s quite nice place, but #2 in US? I wonder what would be the criteria CNN is using.

If it is # of mean bitches in population or something, I can rate my area as #1 in US.

Well aren't you just the comedian.

DC metro area. Be corky or be bullied out is the motto.

to MarkLA:

Where can teachers (public or private) earning $75,000 annually afford to buy in these 'GREAT South Pasadena school districts???

Oh, they must be "The only ones pissed off by this are the PermaRenters with the low median incomes who can’t afford to buy in an area with good schools" that you wrote about.

And by the way, I would never buy a house from a realtor wearing a bow tie.

That house is where I had my first-ever beer, in 1980. It was awful. Bud, I think.

Philistine says

Pasadena is bizarro-land. It wants to be 1910 quaint but with contemporary hipster parent attitudes. Yet, please, I can shop at Banana Republic and pay $12 for mediocre ice cream cones anywhere in SoCal–what’s so special about Pasadena for that?

You've got it wrong. It's a great city. The consumer-hipster parent scene only developed in the past 20 years, around the time "Old Town" really took off. And Banana Republic? That's been there, what, 6 years?

thealicat13 says

to MarkLA:

Where can teachers (public or private) earning $75,000 annually afford to buy in these ‘GREAT South Pasadena school districts???

Irvine has a good school district and you can buy a condo that used to sell in 2006 for $800k (unaffordable to school teachers) for $500k now (affordable to school teachers): http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/73-Juneberry-92606/home/17473935

And by the way, I would never buy a house from a realtor wearing a bow tie.

I just changed my avatar to better please your sense of style. I don't think Angelo is selling homes though.

Hi Guys,

My two cents:

We moved to SP in 2004 for my son 6th grade. He went to privet school for K-5. Yes, SP schools are decent, but do not expect miracles. MS was better than SH, although both have a very "twisted" liberal arts departments (to be fair, this is probably true anywhere in umber liberal So.Cal). Drags is a "quiet" problem, which administration is trying to keep under wraps, at both schools. All-in-all, these are good schools, IF you, the parent, know exactly what your child is up to... :-)

My son is a senior now, so I will not care as much in three month, but anybody considering moving to SP for schools, should know that the District has changed its policy, and will no longer enforce strict residency rules (used to be done every year). This will increase class size, and hurt SP property prices. Why would you pay ~ 1M for a house in 91030, when you can live in Alhambra, literary across the street, sent your kids to the same schools, enjoy the same safe neighborhood, and pay 500-600K for a similar house??? I do expect prices on nearby Alhambra and LA blocks to go up a bit, but mostly it will be SP going down.

Unrelated, SP is a very dog friendly city, which is a big plus for my family, as well as a lot of our neighbors.

Now my take on RE:

I am one of those said, angry renters, Mark_LA was talking about... :-)

We rented an apartment at first, and started looking to buy a house right away (July 2004). Prices went ballistic early in 2005 and never looked back, well until a few month ago... I'm starting to see meaningful shifts in market dynamics lately. NOT that I'm still actively looking, I am not. I've been renting a house since 2005, and I'm absolutely loving it. What's NOT to like: we live in the prime area (next to Monterey hills elem.), in a beautifully updated house, which sits on a huge lot (I mean that literally, not in So.Cal speak). I pay ~$1.40 per sq ft, and in a rare event there is a problem (ex: main line backed up a 3 weeks ago), property manager is a text msg away! This is truly a dream come true. I have to confess, listening to my friends and neighbors bitching about markets, equity, mortgage-slaves unemployment fears, etc... provides an extra entertainment.

I do not agree that SP is anything but a middle class city - I know most families with kids in SPHS senior class - most of them do not have incomes to support a LONG TERM service of a 700K+ mortgage. Especially, as prices for all essentials go through the roof.

My advise to a new comer to SP would be to rent one of the readily available houses and see what happens. My opinion is: with rates heading up, in the medium term, RE will severely under perform other asset classes in the next 3-5 years, in general, and SP will face it own, unique challenges.

What is the resume of all of this? Even though per sq ft stats imply that this house is a "deal", I agree that a person willing to part with 1.5M for a shelter, will not buy this house.

Best.

@Mark - you rock, if I were buying I'd hire you :-) I do agree with almost everything you said, except that I do believe that South Pasadena will fall. Simply because the "good school premium" is starting to reach the point where it's getting cheaper to opt for private schools. Have you noticed how the average $/sf on homes sold in the past 6 months is down to $409, while the active listings average $454 (under contract = $425)?

Average sale price history for South Pasadena according to Redfin:
12mo, 6mo, 3mo
$710k, $667k, $647k

$/sf for the same:
12mo, 6mo, 3mo
$423, $409, $406

Can you see the trend?

BTW - I think it's ironic that people from LA are complaining about OC traffic. I moved from Newport to Santa Monica 4 years ago and I really miss OC traffic. At least people there know how to drive on a freeway.

It's interesting these are the houses that sucked the banks under. Typically these kind of borrowers go to banks instead of anything with a mortgage backed security. There were a few mbs lenders who would deal in these. However the type of borrower that would get these was hip enough to go to a bank. So all the small banks that lent in these went under quick. Also they delt in construction loans for these and spec houses. Not to mention infrustructure for subdivisions.

I read today Justin Biebers locks of hair sold for 40k yea ok sure. Reality Trac is reporting sales have dropped. However most of the sales are foreclousers. Yea thats the ticket forclouser sales. Yea thats a good deal and I will tell you something else. The only people buying in a negative equity market are escaped mental patients. Next month your house may be worth 10 thousand dollars less than you put down. It's a good deal for people that like to be publicly whipped.

New construction is off of course. Cause well there's that competition with foreclousers and home prices that are nose diving like flipper with 5 sharks on his tail. I would personally like to slap the nose off of the faces of the people that run Reality Trac and all the other lender owned, figure pump houses. That think I am stupid enough to believe them. When I personally go out and witness every day. Vacant REO's by the score. That just sit there. Some with curtains still in the windows. Garbage cans outside the garage doors. Along with the other things they use to make them look occupied.

Mostly I am just upset. With the continuing confidence game they run on people. Trying to get homeowners to stay put. While their values plumet. Pumping up numbers. That if you do a little work you can see they are just selling bald faced lies now, not houses. The happy side of this says. This will be a really nice low these houses could hit. If people would just stop believeing their lies. Move out of your 200k house with the loan and get a 300k house for 120k. Seems off take a look at Detriot and rural areas if you want a fantastic deal. It's there now. Forget the investment potential. Get a really nice place to live cheap.

Rural area's even in the very best of times. Any realtor with experience will tell you are a very hard sale. They mostly don't have any appreciation. Typically are about 1/3 the price of the Suburbs. Somewhere around that. Now rural areas are slammed against the wall. That's something good ole Realty Trac fails to mention. Theres reasons for that. Even the lenders won't lend in rural areas many times. Why well I guess they own a lot of land near the cities. Makes you wonder why you live near a city. Anyway take a look at those. If you want an astonishingly good deal.

Woah... I screwed up the html in that last post. I meant to comment on Mr. Fantastic's comment / quote his. Instead I managed to attribute my own comment to someone else by mistake.

These are my words in reply to Mr. F.:

DING! DING! DING! When will some people learn that much of government is nothing but organized crime with a flag on the wall?

Suddenly the news was filled with "None of the bankers went to prison". I wondered about this. I konw a friend of the guy that made that statement. He told me yep its true. None of them did go to jail. Thats the bad news. The good news he said is that he's a sociopathic liar. You mean he's not telling the truth. I said. Could me maybe he said. Then again couldn't be. You can never tell with them.

Erkle was a sociopathic liar. He said there are some famous sociopathic liars out there. Who's Erkle. I wondered. Look dosen't matter. He said. I asked. You mean one of these guys makes a statement and it's carried accross 25 different newpapers and on TV. Yep he said it's almost like they are interconnected in some way. It's mysterious. However I think somethings up with that. I wondered where all the interest money went that people pay in. Goes to. Wonder who pays for all of the newspapers and television that they will never let the common guy on? Yep he said if you want to see a bunch of shills. People with fake names like Wolf Blitzer and just the biggest fast talking scammers in the country just turn on the Television. Yep I thought to myself that just could be the deal.

Mr Fantastic. Bluto rebukes you.

I'm just kidding. Everyone knows in America there is no strong arming. Still one has to wonder. Why none of Bluto's friends were in jail. Everyone that was had to pay Blutos friends in the "justice system" to get out.

Ronnie Honduras says

Mr.Fantastic says
Remember this is the government, not some crooked realtor. It seems like this level of corruption would be easy to prove and easy to prosecute.

DING! DING! DING! When will some people learn that much of government is nothing but organized crime with a flag on the wall?

Capital gains tax - 15%, income tax - 35%. (Something like that).
Should explain a lot on who is in charge of this country.

Mr.Fantastic says

You can buy a condos in the $500,000 range in South Pasadena too:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/South-Pasadena/812-Fremont-Ave-91030/unit-301/home/22927366

http://www.redfin.com/CA/South-Pasadena/1035-Arroyo-Verde-Rd-91030/unit-D/home/7003363
And some in the $400,000 range:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/South-Pasadena/1035-Arroyo-Verde-Rd-91030/unit-D/home/7003363

http://www.redfin.com/CA/South-Pasadena/1202-Indiana-Ave-91030/unit-1/home/7004781
But my question is, can a teacher afford to buy at $400k to $500k?
Maybe two teachers? But buying based on a dual income, especially in a declining field, just seems really risky and foolish.

I have quite a few teacher friends, they all rent!