patrick.net

SF Ace, you want to feel unique with high self-esteem , i would never want that my kid is the wost in thier peers- it's a recipe for disaster.

SF ace says

San Jose State relative to Stanford is not.

You have no idea what your talking about. SV workers back than and even today are mainly SJSU grads. SJSU did far more putting many professionals into the SV from Engineering to Marketing, Production and Finance. And they still do today.

Your gonna compare some arrogant prick ass snob advertising and gaming companies to the vast number of serious hardware and software industries that created the technology/information revolution which were run by grads from local medicore universities.

Is that what your saying! Like I said Impress me!

we are digressing from the topic :

Should you be crazy about 900+ API or anything above 800 is considered good ?

I think 800+ proves that school is good enough and then it's upto the students and parents to do the rest. Everything else is a hype.

bearishbull says

I don’t know what SF Ace is smoking, but most of my colleagues now do not have Ivy League degrees

thank you for bringing a little common sense to this thread.

* Employers are a lot pickier now than 10 years ago. 10 years ago, medicore education credential led to a decent start and subsequently you can do the right things to advance in your career. Today, that mediocre credentials don’t even get a look at the resume screener. In 10-20 years, I expect things to be even more competitive. Don’t look at your 40 something colleague going to a second tier college as inspiration, every Google and Facebook recent gard employees are Ivy League, MIT caliber credentials with rare exceptions. This is going to spill over to other major corporations and professional firms doing high level work."

SF you are all over the place here. I've only seen one employer even ask for a GPA and then I searched about them and the vast majority of the information was negative (they offered me a job and to pay for relocation to the midwest). I emailed them to address the concerns brought up in said websites but as of yet they haven't.

Employers can be picky but I think you are taking this into a different direction. This is what I see already
Drug tests - since the 80's this has been true. In a sense all of the hippies of the 60's and 70's had to clean up to get jobs

Background checks - have you been involved in a crime? That can kill you economically

Credit checks (some states have made this illegal) - those that owe money are more likely to steal than ones that don't have debt. Which means they might actually be less likely to get a job. Educational loans are economic death sentences.

Sometimes times can change. I went to a school where the accrediations were a bit iffy. Then they changed..BOOM! All of the schools in the state would now take their credits..it was that simple.

I will admit that Google is the only company I've seen that has a Ph.d for a requirement but they never specifically stated from what school.

"I really articulate the point unclearly."

I think you meant "I really articulateD the point unclearly"

The other thing to remember is that many good professors at ivy league schools and others are adjuct and teach at other schools. I've had one twice that also teaches at MIT. Does anyone honestly think he makes things harder just because it is ivy league? Certainly it is more dependent on the level (102 classes 205, 340, 420 class etc) then the institution.

The comradery that people have with higher education usually goes like this.
"So you went to xyz....what professors did you have"

To discount the professors is to totally discount the entire degree. I have much more in common with actual classmates then people that were not in my classes but in the same graduation year.

As for Facebook they are private and there's no legal obligation for them to tell the truth in terms of how much they make. They might not be making a profit. I don't know anyone that has bought anything from facebook...plenty from amazon. Besides every few years the sites change..first collegeclub..then friendster...then myspace..then facebook and now linked in and disporia

Menya ,
what do you think ?

More people , please come forward and share your thoughts.

Maybe he/she already made their decision and are too busy trying to maintain the wrong one :)

Agreed, no private school for my kid. It's not a matter of money. It's that all the private school kids I knew growing up, didn't turn out well. I pin it on people spending a bunch of money on a school, who then think they are done with the job of seeing to their child's education. Pick a decent public school, and spend time yourself aside from school raising your kid. No school is a complete substitute for parental attention.

On a side note here's a few other things.

1) Private school teachers actually make less money than public school ones (at lest high school level). Unions are strong in teaching and it is much easier to organize in a public area than a private. Private schools can fail at a faster rate than public. Some states mandate that a school system must exist although that is dependent on enrollment. A cost benifit analysis determines the ratio's that must exist. Sometimes regionalization can be used in public schools to facilitate more spending to justify things. If one school has 100 students and another has 300...they combine at 400 and then the state might kick in money..

2) At least within public school there's no correlation that higher spending per pubil means higher graduation rates. The highest spender in mass is a city that pays $21,000 per student per year and yet the rate is only 77%..meanwhile there's others that don't even spend $8K and they are in the 90% and up rate.

Many teachers I know have a love/hate relationship with their union. They like the jobs but not the policies. I had a science professor in college that would love to teach more but they won't let him because he would have a monopoly over the whole subject. The budget doesn't exist for hiring more professors so they cancel classes. Other times I've heard of bright teachers reaching the kids and yet there's someone about to put in their 30th year without a care in the world because they have a pension coming to them soon.

Academica can have some real controversal topics. Just mensioning "tenure" to professors can open up cans of worms. Also there's the whole "teaching the test" idea.

The only recommendations I can give to higher ed would be the following:
1) don't be afraid of having summer classes. usually they are the same rate as the spring so this can hedge against inflation
2) a 529 plan might be a good idea as it can hedge against the raising of rates
3) online classes can be ok but don't expect them to be beyond 200 level
4) Shop around for books..heck get a ebook reader that way it's lighter - some states make it a law that institutions must release their ISBN's prior to a class. It might be a good idea to see what books were used for what ones because that can give a greater idea in terms of how the teacher teaches.
5) It's probably cheaper to commute then live in a dorm. Many schools restrict parking for those that live there since you might end up with public transport anyway
6) it can be worth it to go to a two year school first and then go to a four year. That way if someone leaves after two years they have a degree rather than credits.
7) time management - due to #5 I'd say this is important. If someone is around slackers they are more likely to..slack

francophile,

is it ISTP that you are talking about? I am looking at that for pre-school, would love to hear your feedback.

Still waiting for Menya......want to know what she thinks after reading all these stories.

Menya ??

As a non-US parent living in the Bay Area in a very similar situation, it is very nice of you Menya, to bring this up for discussion. Here is my 2 cents (apologies in advance for grammar mistakes):

1. Public school vs private school: First of all, when it is your child's future, financial motivations should always come secondary. What I mean is you shouldn't say "I will save X amount of money by not sending my kid to Y private school" as long as you have the financial ability.

Second, there is no absolute rule that a particular school will be better than the other for your child. It all depends on your child's character and capacity. If your child goes to school where he/she is not challenged at all, he/she will be bored and will loose interest. On the opposite, your child might struggle under a challenge too much for him/her.

I believe it is best for a child to have a well-balanced education (academically, socially, mentally). And that will be defined by the school environment (programs, facilities, etc), the competence of the teachers, the other students. (A big note on that: public schools are suffering from the state budget problems and it's getting worse.)

As for myself, I chose to send my daughter to a private school for a few years. This year she is going to a public school in a good district (Cupertino). I tried to choose a school where she would have to work a bit harder but not too much that she would also have fun. If your child spends more than a couple hours to do his/her homeworks every weekday, IMO that falls into the category of being "too much hard work". So far not so bad.

2. Buying vs renting: Again, there is no absolute rule that you should buy or rent, even in a time like this where the housing bubble is deflating(ed?).

I would recommend that you put off buying for a while (2 years maybe?) if there is a chance that you might move to change your child's school.

If you're certain that you'll stay put for at least 5 years (elementary school is 6 yrs already), and not move, then buying might be an option. At a time like this, 10 years is probably a better time period to stay put.

I believe that a house should not be viewed as a primary investment vehicle. A house is a primary need, a shelter at the first place. You shouldn't buy a house just because you want to make a profit so many years later when you sell it. However, the reality is that a lot of people do now and will do in the future. Due to this and some other factors, house prices in some of the nice school areas of the Bay Area probably will not decline too much, unless there is a shock of huge proportions that will alter the dynamics of this region (like an earthquake, be it financial or whatever).

It is ironic to see that the house prices being so out of whack was partly(or mostly) due to the government trying to making housing more affordable by making it easy to finance it.

So my advice to you, is to do a little bit of research, weigh the pluses and minuses of both public and private schools (don't count the money factor). Choose a school, rent a house closer to that school. See how it goes (for a couple years maybe?). By that time you'll know much better. If my prediction is correct, delaying a house purchase by about 2 years may also be a financially better decision.

I hope it makes sense. Good luck.

NejatK says

Public school vs private school: First of all, when it is your child’s future, financial motivations should always come secondary. What I mean is you shouldn’t say “I will save X amount of money by not sending my kid to Y private school” as long as you have the financial ability.

Unless you have unlimited resources, even from the (IMHO very questionable) position of maximizing your child's benefit regardless of your own sacrifice, one has to consider the cost of a private K-12 school vs. future college expenses vs. possibly helping your child to get started after college (such as downpayment on a house), etc. Making sure you would never have to ask your child for financial aid (even if you end up needing long-term nursing care and such) is a GREAT help to your child (guess how I know).

It is hard not to count the money factor. If I am funding $20K per year for 6 years and $35K for another 6 years, plus $45K for another 4 years, and then $80K for another 2 years, I will make damn sure my kid is heading towards WS raking in big bucks or else I would rather buy a house outright for him when he graduates from a UC, which already puts him way ahead of his peers.

Thanks everyone. It took me a while to read through all the comments.

Here are some facts:

1. My daughter is 2 so i have no way to yet evaluate her intellectual capabilities or preferences
2. I absolutely don't plan to let the schools do the work. I well realize that most of the success coems from home and plan to spend immense amount of time working with her in both academia as well as other, more fun things (travel, theatre, art...)
3. My husband and I both went through public schools (me: public, solid HS in Europe, Foothill coomunity college, SJSU for undergrad and MBA). Husband: Aragon HS in San MAteo county, SJSU undergrad. We have been working hard for the past 10 years and now in our early 30s each one makes about ~115K. We are both in marketing in rather large corporations.
4. Don't want to go a religious school route as we are atheists.
5. I'd like at least one more child in a year or two.

I don't want my kid to live in Cupertino and feel pressure of tiger mom syndrome. I was actually looking at Cambrian (95124) zip code or Almaden (95120).

My question came from the Cambrian being split into two zip codes (95118 where public schoold are not great) and 95124 (where schools are good - over 900 API).

I can buy a 4/2 house in 95118 for 570K. In 95124 the same style/size house is 770K.

Also, seems to me that tax interest deduction is a pretty good incentive to own given our income level (we just heard we need to pay extra 12K in taxes) :(

Menya,

stay away from Alamden then, it is quickly becoming another little Cupertino, 95120 is very popular among Chinese who cannot afford Cupertino. Cambrian seems like a better choice.

Menya says

Also, seems to me that tax interest deduction is a pretty good incentive to own given our income level (we just heard we need to pay extra 12K in taxes)

Ah, one more homeownership myth. Save on taxes.

Menya says

interest deduction is a pretty good incentive to own

The idea behind ID was a tax relief, when interest rates were higher. But today with Int% low and may continue to be low, there is very little reason to continue to have it on the books.

If you can get rid of CC and other consumer credit interest deduction back in 1986, it certainly makes sense to get rid of mortgage Int% deduction as well.

Menya: Well, I assumed your child was much older, about to start school (I missed if you mentioned that, sorry). You have ample time to make a decision, and this is not the best time to buy a house anyway (my opinion). As for the two zip code choices, it if were me I would choose 95124. It's not just the schools, I like that location (actually better than Cupertino). I don't know much about Almaden other than the fact that it is just as expensive as Cupertino if not more.

I think it is also important that the school demographics is mixed rather than every student being Chinese, American, Japanese, or of Hispanic origin. That provides a unique chance of learning about different cultures.

I'm a renter, but I would very much like to live in my own house if the circumstances were favorable. And I think this is not the best time to buy a house in the Bay Area.

In my opinion, No Brainer - Buy where you can send them to great public school. Instead, start putting the money for private school in a college fund. When they go to college in 15 years, you'll have a nice fund for that.

Makes sense to me. We just did exactly that. :)

The tax break is not a myth. Prop Tax + Interest is a deduction. Period. Not a myth. A myth is what all these haters here have to say. Just talk to an accountant, they'll tell you exactly.

I'd be more worried about her having fun. You can bust your hump and get a free ride to college but then in teh real world all the jobs go offshore anyways or some clueless mgr hries based on bill rate regardless of education or skill. I'm just saying.

BTW, my friend's friend move his kids to a rural derelict area in 10th and 11th or so. I think both then got full rides for being the best in their area. The area is very nice scenically but not "progressive" like SF. This was "back east'. I can't reveal the location because I think its a superb idea I might use. :-)

By the way, I've heard from many people that the colleges in India are better than MIT; so, maybe they'd give you a scholarship to get some diversity there. ;-) But, really, why bother, according to videos on YouTube, there are 150M people in India who are smarter than anyone in the USA. Better just to give up now and go into government. My real point is smarts are cheap. I like what one person said, "Everyone has an unfair advantage; but most of us go through life never knowing what ours is".

More seriously though, wealth is based on who you know mostly. If your kid goes to school with some rich kids they might fund her venture later in life. It takes money to make money. OTOH, a lot of priveleged kids blow their brains out. If you don't have a good grasp on life and see some suffering then you probably won't know how good you have it or appreciate your life.

SubOink says

In my opinion, No Brainer - Buy where you can send them to great public school. Instead, start putting the money for private school in a college fund. When they go to college in 15 years, you’ll have a nice fund for that.
Makes sense to me. We just did exactly that.
The tax break is not a myth. Prop Tax + Interest is a deduction. Period. Not a myth. A myth is what all these haters here have to say. Just talk to an accountant, they’ll tell you exactly.

With no positive equity in sight it is a myth!

We're in the same situation. We have a 2.5 year old and a .5 year old. We bought in 94062 area of Redwood City, for Roy Cloud. There are houses there in the 850k range. The highschool is nothing to write home about, but it's not terrible (Woodside) but having the great grade-middle school and parents caring about their education should get them started off on the right foot, and we can deal with private highschool if we have to. Houses in this area ought to be around 650k range, and we even saw a few with not-nice lots sell in that range.

There are some areas of Redwood City that are getting gentrified, and I think it is a good buy, the same goes for part of East Palo Alto. If you buy along the western foothills, even if there are some currently blue collar neighborhoods, I think over time, they will be lifted by the general wealth concentrated along the corridor, which will be havens of safety, school, general environment etc. If I am buying today, then I will buy mediocre areas adjacent to expensive neighborhoods, and that is how Sunnyvale and Mountain View got lifted.

I remember years ago part of Redwood City along the foothills being quite undesirable because they are a part of, well, Redwood City. But today, this area has become to be known as Emerald Hills and dotted with million+ houses. I'd expect the same to happen to western Redwood City fairly soon. Another area with high potential is Campbell bordering Los Gatos and Saratoga, high school is mediocre for the time being, but give it another decade, I'd expect it to perform at the same level as Saratoga and LG. My physical therapist graduated from Lynbrook when it was still a nobody school about 20 years ago, and she said back then parents who couldn't afford Cupertino went to Lynbrook and built it to what it is now.

One concern that I wrestled with in my head was 10 years from now, there is no guarantee any public school would be satisfactory, so I have been debating whether or not to even buy in a good district.
That's a very good point which I've written about before. For a district to keep class sizes low and support diverse programming in the face of cuts from the state, they will rely on local parcel taxes. In districts with both commercial and residential, these parcel taxes will be lower for the individual homeowner. In a city like Piedmont in the East Bay, they will be higher as the city consists mostly of residential housing stock.

EBGuy,

this is a good point, because Los Altos residents are notoriously known to be saddled with a higher tax than neighboring Cupertino and Palo Alto precisely due to its lack of commercial businesses. I would assume Saratoga has the same problems.

However, buying in a good district has more to do with the profile of the residents than the schools. School performance is a product of the profile of residents. Has anyone ever seen a good school coming out of a bad, crime ridden neighborhood. If you plot a map of the best public schools in the Bay Area, it is very easy to spot a pattern, they are all along the western or eastern foothills.

bearishbull,

if you can afford 95124 and 95120, go there first, because these neighborhoods will be lifted much faster than Redwood City and Campbell. In fact, 95120 has already gotten quite expensive, particularly in the last decade. My wife who grew up here remembered 95120 as the boonies and the property price there didn't move for many years until about 10 years ago. 95120 is also much newer, so you don't have the eye sore of older neighborhoods, but the racial mix of 95120 won't as diverse as 95124, and I predict it will quickly become another Chindian neighborhood like Cupertino. 95124 will be more multi-cultural.

Almaden is like the new place to be for a lot of Chinese and Indian families because Leland High has already passed 900 API and it is still relatively affordable. So 95120 is seen as a steal.

Willow Glen is an area that I don't understand. It's got the charm and character and money, but the public schools remain crappy throughout the years, maybe all Willow Glen residents send their kids to private schools?

I am Chinese too, but I am afraid to be living in a neighborhood with too many first gen Chinese immigrants, which I am as well. The reason being, I know how hard we as a group can save and how academically demanding we can be with our kids, I don't want to be a Tiger dad whipping my kids' ass against other Tiger dads and moms. But geographically speaking, south of 85 is golden, anything that gets you as close as possible to the foothill is prime location. So if you are going to be in this area for a long time, stay south of 85 if you can, and the price is less likely to soften. If not, Cambrian will stretch your budget more.

If you have seen any house related news, you will know there are more bad news than good.
If you have been actively going to open houses, and keeping tabs...you will notice that houses are sitting longer, it is not like back in those days where the buyer had to buy "AS IS", and house went pending the day after the listing.

I would agree with NejatK

chip_designer : Totally on the money. If I could have avoided buying for longer, I would have. I wound up buying because a lowball I was sure would be dismissed got accepted. Whoops. I was lowballing to make the wife happy. Now I'm stuck exactly where I'd like to be stuck, but still stuck owning a house. 2012 was my original guess for when the bottom would be in, but it looks like it may take a year or two longer.

Rent if you can get away with it. If you've got the wife cracking the whip, lowball and hope for rejection letters. :)

Menya,
Your child is only 2. You can wait 3~4 years then buy. the downside risk is high and upside (appreciation) is slim to none.

sfbubblebuyer says

2012 was my original guess for when the bottom would be in, but it looks like it may take a year or two longer.

It will be a heck of leg down before 2012 as Debt Forgiveness Expires at 2012 year end.

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=179414,00.html

Up to $2 million of forgiven debt is eligible for this exclusion ($1 million if married filing separately). The exclusion does not apply if the discharge is due to services performed for the lender or any other reason not directly related to a decline in the home’s value or the taxpayer’s financial condition

OO says

95120 is also much newer, so you don’t have the eye sore of older neighborhoods, but the racial mix of 95120 won’t as diverse as 95124, and I predict it will quickly become another Chindian neighborhood like Cupertino. 95124 will be more multi-cultural.

Doing what, and working where ?

Vanishing Public Companies Lead To The Incredible Shrinking Silicon Valley

That’s not just less than the dot-com era, that’s well below the 315 public companies the valley had in 1994 when the Mercury News started keeping track.

chip_designer says

cloud13 says

I would say again, Look in 95124 - It’s a great neighbourhood and it’s not overpriced.

yes, indeed.

No doubt 95124 is a nice school district. I have been looking for house in this area for 5 years. To get a nice house in this area is tricky because you have to avoid the high voltage power line and underground gas pipeline. When San Bruno gas pipeline burst last year, I found out that the entire 95124 (especially cambrian school district) is surrounded by underground gas pipeline.

So, I decided to bought my house in Campbell instead.

Jeremy Lim says

I found out that the entire 95124 (especially cambrian school district) is surrounded by underground gas pipeline.

We all have underground piplines in all cities in all states. Where else do you put it.

I looked for years in 95124 and know every street in and out , so here is my take on it.

I bought near houge park , this area is marked as free zone-1 on leigh high school map.
So our high school is going to be Leigh high and elementary would be Farnham elementary and then the middle school is Price Charter middle.
Farnham elementary is the only school in 95124 whcih offers after day care until 5:00 PM (great for working parents) and it cost only $200 per day.
There is a YMCA whcih all the kids access for free who goto Farnham and ofcourse the API is 858.
One of my neighbour who is a director in Apple sends his 3 kids there and his wife volunteers in Farnham (prolly both of them don't have to work anymor :-) ).
There are some SJPD cops who send their kids to Farnham. To me After Day Care was very important because both of us are working parents.

So coming back to my original point, Look at Leigh High School's map and buy in Free Zone-1, doing this you won't have to pay too much for south of 85 and your kid will still attend the Leigh high school. Another good thing about Free Zone-1 is that All the homes here have very large lots ( around 9000 sq feet)