patrick.net

tts says

You’re effectively brainwashed by your employers and/or mildly sociopathic so it was probably a waste of time to type this all out per se since you probably won’t change your midn but maybe others can read this and learn a little something.

Amen. I was thinking to also inform mdovell that he is most likely a brainwashed corporate robot & a sheep.

I also think sheep are generally stubborn in seeing other points of views and it's not worth even trying to help sheep because they attack you. That's why I backed out on even bothering to discuss the debate any further - I have found some people to be permanently a sheep.

bubblesburst says

A high school degree is nothing.

Majority of college degree holders have no intrinsic value either. They only know how to get but don't know how to earn.

"Because everyone has a wrong idea of what a college degree really means. Understand that I don’t think all college degrees are worthless."
Well that's the impression I get from the discussion.

"Self-education is the best education because it comes from inner motivation & not because you are feared into studying something because of authority & tyrants."

But no one forces people to go into college. There's a huge difference between going to high school and going to college. Students don't have to pay for high school since it is largely public..you have a fair amount that don't want to be there. When people pay money for something they take it much more seriously.

"People don’t read textbooks because they want too - it’s because they are pressured by others into studying it or otherwise something “terrible” will happen to them. It’s a form of following the orders and desires of others instead of using your own brain."

Have you actually attended a college before? Personally I have read textbooks for the heck of it. Professors do not automatically tell students to read all of a given textbook. More importantly not everything assigned *IS* a textbook. Basic political philosophy on the left and right is not written as a textbook. Literature is not written as a text book etc.

"Education is something a person must do themselves. Of course - teachers and mentors are sometimes necessary but the motivation must come from within. Otherwise the motivation is not really motivation - it’s weakness by following other people’s own wishes of what you are cleverly disguised as motivation."

OK but anyone that has to have a job must always obey as there's not creative structure. Remember Bill Hicks? "Hey Hicks why aren't you working?" "Because there's no work to do" "Well pretend your working!" "How about you pretend I'm working, creativity was not in the job description!"

"But to answer your question - Medical school is flawed to begin with anyway. It’s curriculum is heavily controlled by the pharmaceutical companies which are largely dependent on the petroleum industry. (pharmaceuticals are mostly if not completely synthesized from petroleum by-products these days )"

In the end, the drug industry is all about organic chemistry. Petroleum is a rich source of organics, and I suspect we'd synthesize everything from crude oil if it were viable. In fact many drug precursors probably come indirectly from petroleum, now that I think about it. A link to said harangue would be helpful. My whacko-sense tells me that this may be partly about linking two hated industry to create the shock value of "no blood for Prozac".

"Who largely controls the petroleum industry? The Rockefellers and yes they still control that industry despite the fact that they try to show that they don’t."

Based on what? Where is Rockefeller here?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=PFE+Major+Holders
There's the organizations and large individual shareholders of Pfizer...

"The American Medical Association main goal is to limit they amount of doctors regardless of whether they are competent in order to artificially drive up the prices of medical care."

Ok but how is that relevant? I agree but on that same note plumbers unions lobby the state of mass all the time to limit the laws to allow people to do their own plumbing work. In Mass you cannot do work in walls ceilings and floors, only if it is exposed outside of it. So you tell me that groups think within their own self interest..that's just a basic.

"Mcat exams and applications are mainly looking for people who are going to only further establish and promote the pharmaceutical companies. If you give them the impression that you want to be a doctor because you want help people, cure diseases and care for sick people - they will take your application and throw it right into the trash."

Again it is obvious that the money is in the medicine.

"The Federal Drug administration’s main goal is to suppress cures and only approve drugs that treat the symptoms of a condition - not the condition itself. Many drugs that are approved have very little testing and many dangerous drugs are continually being approved."

You just contradicted yourself though. So if the FDA then is in a paradox. If they test a drug that holds promise what should they do? Release it hopeing it will save lives or wait for a longer trial and watch people suffer more without knowing the side effects? Fenfen did work in helping people lose weight...but it caused heart attacks later on.

"Doctors also often have a conflict of interest due to monetary incentives they are given by pharmaceutical companies and medical lab companies. (Expensive dinners, vacations and pressurization by the companies to push their services & products on to patients with a commission incentive.)"

How is that different from any other industry?

"And by the way - college in some states is not needed to become an attorney. You can apprentice under a attorney and take the bar exam from his approval. Many people frown at this way to become attorney - when actually this is how attorneys were all trained in the old days and they were trained damn good."
Although that is true how many clients will take on someone obtaining it that way?

"Your argument contains an oxymoron. Experience teaches you completely different curriculum than contemplating. Not that contemplating isn’t valuable but often contemplating teaches you misinformation or information that has no application or use. Do you understand now, why your question is the wrong thing to ask?"

So someone with experience cannot create their own inventions or creations? Contemplating does not teach misinformation. Competition often drives businesses to improve their product. We don't still drive Model T's and use rotary dial telephones.

"how can you quantify application that a degree teaches you? If you really want an answer instead of a question, here it is; You can’t tell how competent, valuable and skillful someone is until they start working and you judge their results."

But that's the rub. You are implying that every employer would give a potential employee a chance. While that was true decades ago it is harder now since it is an employers market. When unemployment is low (remember around...summer of 2000?) companies will hire headhunters and offers will be there. Now it's the opposite. An employer knows there's ample amounts of people applying so they want to maximize who they can get.

"And if training is needed - companies should be providing it through apprenticeships since they know more about their business and it’s required knowledge to run it rather than some money hungry private organization which has never stepped foot in the business- which many jobs had done in the past."

Technically I can agree with that...BUT employers do NOT want to each people beyond the basics days. Training costs time, money and energy. If a employer is looking for a chemist they aren't going to teach basic chemistry to someone from the ground up.

I read the creature book years ago..still have it but Griffen just writes to make money there's not much substance that is accounted for. I've seen the videos..heck I have that grandaddy of a book Tragedy and Hope that eventually I'll crack open.

I've googled you a bit..I'll admit some of it is interesting. I didn't know you wrote a book.

"We need affordable colleges, not payment plans or more undischargable debt, or any other gimmicks. Just make it cheaper, its not rocket science."

I don't think you understand. It WAS cheap until we were convinced that we should subsidize it with student loans. Let me use a better case here. In Boston's Fenway Park almost all the Red Sox games sell out (they won two world series in the past 10 years). Now from their perspective is there any real need to lower ticket prices? Heck no because the demand is guaranteed. But what they'll do is they'll add to the number of seats over and over again. Student loans guarantee demand..but the supply is limited.

If we eliminated the student loan program less students would be able to go to school but prices would start flattening or start going down since they'd have to compete with one another rather than take a pseudo blank check. The other problem with the student loan system is even if it did work and prices were put in check having higher percentages with degrees would lower the value of them.

^ I respectfully disagree...

The American collegiate system is broken because it's a super retail business PERIOD!

Pupils are Pigeons to be plucked, more than minds to be fed, and don't you forget it.

Nomograph says

The lesson here is that the Internet gives people a louder voice than they might arguably deserve. Be very careful who you listen to and take advice from; you just might turn out like them.

Oh you mean like Berkeley!? I respectfully agree.

mdovell says

I don’t think you understand. It WAS cheap until we were convinced that we should subsidize it with student loans.

That is a part of it but its not the only part. Payment gimmicks and undiscarhable debt will also allow them to jack prices up.

Subsidies in of themselves do not automatically guarantee that prices will go up.

@Nomograph

What I find more attention worthy  is how vested you are to dodge they issue at hand and  pounce on  insignificant  things unrelated.

It indicates that you can't think of anything to debate so you resort to cheap attacks personally.

But to be clear; Yes, I have a wide amount of knowledge & interest in many many different subjects which many sheeple would consider to be taboo.

If anyone is also jealous its usually the sheep. They always get into a negative state of mind whenever they find out someone is extremely wealthy - begin to think how "lucky" that person is... And how impossible it is with what they achieved. They are easy to follow orders but also easy to become jealous of others who are leaders.

 College will not make you rich... Attorneys & doctors - the majority of them are just pathetic yuppies with huge debts, hardly any savings & excessive spending in proportion to their salary. It's one thing to enjoy a rich life but it's completely different to actually be rich. The doctors & attorneys that are wealthy are  not because of medical school or law school - it has to do with personal traits & the way they think which makes them successful in that career. It's easy to be something but completely different to have success at it.

But I've encountered sheep like you countless times.

I bet I can sum you up: You always follow financial advice from other sheep. You believe credit cards will make rich because it will build your credit score. You believe low interest rates are good. You will or have defiantly bought  a house with a mortgage. You expect a 401(k) will take care of your savings. You are expecting to depend on social security. You believe the FDIC will protect your money from bank runs. You believe a job is they only way to make a living & don't ever imagine being fired - you will always make that salary consistently. You are incredibly negative whenever someone close to you is going to start a business. You believe someone should never start a business. 

What I also found more pathetic is how the sheep look down on others who don't go through any formal schooling - when they very individuals who have made this system stronger grew up as poor boys who had very little school, none at all or didn't attend college... But made a huge mark in business & became robber baron tycoons.

John D. Rockefeller had some very good traits common among successful individuals. As much as you may think that I believe the elite had some special advantages which enabled them to accumulate their vast fortunes - you are wrong... I simply judge them by their actions not by whether the are wealthy & should be vilified.

Rockefellers had started their fortunes from scratch.

Rothchilds started their fortunes from scratch.

The men behind these fortunes were once poor boys who the majority of sheep at the time considered to be uneducated peasants with no hope of ever being anything in their life.

I actually used to support the plans of the elite to murder 95% of the sheeple, reduce world population, implement RFID chips, send middle class jobs overseas, go to war with iran, debase all currencies slowly & eventually, further establish the pharmaceutical companies control over the medical industry, control all food sources & criminalize growing your own food, control all energy sources, introduce international electronic currency and implement a carbon tax (make the sheeple pay for air).

I used to love these plans & couldn't wait for them to be implemented because I used to have the same philosophy as them which is: the sheep need to be put in their place & slaughtered because they are pitiable inferior idiots who deserve to it. The sheep are the real scumbags because they let tyrants rule their lives & encourage others into following tyrants. International elites laugh at Americans but even more interesting is the sheeple overseas also scorn these degenerate slaves.

I also believed in enslaving people. Screw these serfs...

But I have decided to go against the elite on the basis that although it's true that the sheep are idiots - if they want to be that way then they have a right too... But more importantly I have decided to give humanity a second chance.

I bet you also believe masturbation is healthy and probably do it a lot  .... Go learn about sex transmutation... You need to also learn about what brainwaves are before giving your uneducated opinion. (research brainwave entrainment & brainwave synchronization - gamma, beta, alpha, theta & delta brainwaves) Psychic abilities are real but disputed by non-thinking sheep - I don't care if you think otherwise so don't expect me to make any effort to enlighten you. 

And I don't need success advise - I have learned a lot about what it takes to be a success - stuff the sheep don't know anything about...

Nomograph says

MCMSinger says

Go learn about sex transmutation... You need to also learn about what brainwaves are before giving your uneducated opinion. (research brainwave entrainment & brainwave synchronization - gamma, beta, alpha, theta & delta brainwaves) Psychic abilities are real but disputed by non-thinking sheep

So basically, your message is this:
Education = Bad
Sex transmutation, djiniis, magic, brainwave entrainment = Good
Let me know how that works out for you.

Let other pens dwell on guilt and misery -- Jane Austen

No - my message is basically that what you consider to be "education" is not...

And you don't need me to let you know how this perspective on life is going to turn out. Go look around you with how many jobless/no income graduates they are...

And then go study successful people & see what qualities they possess which makes them into a success. One of the keys is directing your energy.

The entrepreneur that started the Arizona beverage company once came into the college that I attended & clearly expressed his disgust with people who hold degrees. And no - this man was not jealous from them rather he said that he usually has a problem wih them because these people always think they know everything but when it comes to walking their talk - they can't...

This man founded a huge company & is quite wealthy - I think his experience showed him that the majority of people think they know something when they don't... And once some dumbfuck idiot gets a piece of paper called a degree, they usually try to flaunt how smart they are - when actually they are so stupid that they don't even know they are stupid... That's just how stupid they are & I think you fit that description quite well...

True... People who generally don't attend the brainwashing indocronation camps don't usually make more money than those who do... But what idiots fail to look at is why these idiots are making more money; answer: because companies want docile employees that only do on command without ever questioning.

Basically robots - let me ask - does your computer ever question you when press the command button to turn it on? No as long as it's working properly.

And you also have to look at the reason why people who don't attend college generally make less... 2 reasons 1) Because of bogus myths about graduates being more intelligent 2) Because the majority of people have no movement or goals

Majority of people with or without college are idiots to begin with. I don't neccessarily favor nograduates over graduates... But I do put idiots in there place when I see one.

I'm sorry that you will most likely be penniless at the end of your life regardless of how sweet your kindergarden teacher thought you were; that's how most sheeple end up.

And those subjects which I've encouraged you sheeple to ponder - gives you some of the qualitlies of successful people.

I hope your puny brain can now understand what I was really saying instead of putting you own idiot meanings into them.

And by the way - trying to discredit me by bringing up irrelevant taboo subjects about my beliefs on top of the subject being debated is a cheap shot but also pretty much sums up that you can't debate the subject so you need to resort to debating other things with the person. Quite pathetic actually... But hey I'm just putting similar sheep like you in their place - where they belong.

-Have a Nice Day

Ps. Google Napoleon Hill & read all his books.

"It indicates that you can't think of anything to debate so you resort to cheap attacks personally"

Within the discourse of a debate it can easily get off topic. It is not a ad ad hominem attack when this is brought up after you bring up conspiracy theories.

The problem with conspiracy theories that they make way too many assumptions. For example some believe the moon landing was faked. This is easy debunked because hundreds of thousands of people worked on the Apollo program and how can it be assured that they would all keep secrets?

Alex Jones I will admit is a good speaker. But at the same point he is a radio personality and if he didn't have such material to talk about he'd be out of work! Same with pretty much everyone that publishes a book about such things.

There is no plan to kill 95% of the population. As there's no methods to really do that unless you nuke the whole planet. If we are to believe such arguments then what is the recourse? How many groups are mentioned if you google this material? In no order of importance: Council on Foreign Relations, Ford Foundation, Trilaterial Commission, Rockefellers, Rothchilds (red shield?), Bilderbergers, Club of Rome, Green Cross, British Round Table/Fabian Socialists..some might put in Freemasons, Jesuits, Rosicrucian...and some suggest regional trading blocks are a precursor for global government (EU, NAFTA etc), others might reference aliens, bigfoot, hollow earth...the list can go on and on.

The problem in believing in such arguments is the objectives and motive are never really stated. Alex Jones for what it is worth is a non stop infomercial. If you make something up and it does not happen what do you do? You ignore what you said and make something else up.

The most obvious flaw with Alex Jones and others like him is this. If what they were saying was REALLY true then why doesn't that massive conspiracy just take him out? ...because it frankly doesn't exist!

If you want to dismiss higher ed that's fine man. There are jobs that do not require a degree..however any possible respect for you pretty much died when I found this.

www.puahate.com/showthread.php?p=1138228
"Hard work is for SUCKERS"
!

"I have learned a lot about what it takes to be a success"
By coping other peoples materials and selling it as your own. I wouldn't call that learning that's just acting like a xerox machine.

As for Arizona ice tea it appears they did do well...until the one of the founders tried to sue the other one
www.nybusinessdivorce.com/2010/10/articles/grounds-for-dissolution/50-owner-of-arizona-iced-tea-claiming-shareholder-oppression-files-for-involuntary-dissolution-of-multibillion-dollar-enterprise/

This groups sounds way too big to remain a private business.

I have to feel sorry for Ferolito. He starts a business with a friend that is worth hundreds of millions and decades later can't sell his half off. Then again Apple, Atari and Microsoft had two founders with usually one taking the limelight. If he's worth the money in private stock and cannot sell it then it should be argued to be entrapment.Even if there is a maturity date it has been a few decades now. If you really want to see an odd set look up the Menard family in the midwest.

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/3dseries/2010/2010_08441.htm
As you can see from this link above it even went to the state supreme court but Ferolito lost.

I'd highly recommend you read this book as it examines the mindset of various groups of people and largely debunks them
www.amazon.com/Them-Adventures-Extremists-Jon-Ronson/dp/0743233212

Or watch the south park episode. It uses a bit of the same logic I have tried to suggest against your theories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_of_the_Urinal_Deuce

"I'm sorry that you will most likely be penniless at the end of your life "
If someone is single and has no children wouldn't that be the optimal way to go out? you can't take it with you...

If you make decent money selling PUA books that's great man more power to you. Heck maybe this will help you sell ebooks
www.amazon.com/How-Sold-Million-eBooks-Months/dp/1935670913/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_9

Now can we get back to talking about houses :-D

@mdovell

Did I ever mention Alex jones? Only you did but I am going to give you my honest take on him: I don't believe he offers any valuable information. Just babble & I agree with your comments about some of the crazy claims some people put out.

I don't believe everything I hear or read but that doesn't mean I won't give something it's credit if presented with almost indisputable evidence. The Federal Reserve is an extremely shady operation & the evidence is almost in plain sight.

About the puahate.com - thread which you brought up - Yes that is me trolling that forum trying to see the reactions of people from that thread. I never wrote a plagizered book & I'm telling the truth - I was messing around on that forum. And how can you have respect for someone you don't even know?

Debate the subject of the debate - trying to change the subject to win on another subject shows clearly that you have nothing to debate back.

I don't disagree entirely with everything you say... Learn to see why other people think about something from a certain perspective instead of trying to just win on your ego.

-Later Mate

There isn't any globalist conspiracy.

What happened is that the wealthy reached Class Consciousness before the Proletariat, and have no shame or illusions about consistently pushing their class interests. They also own this microphone, and will be sure it carries mostly their messaging most of the time.

AJ does believe in the illuminati, but he's woken more people up to the Plutocracy than most others. He certainly reaches a crowd that wouldn't be reached by Reich, Brad DeLong, or Chomsky.

He brings attention to hyperaggressive law enforcement, security theatre, socialism for the rich (and has said that at least socialism should be for the poor), etc.

AJ is often over the top. But he's not the complete nutcase he is alleged to be, either. What other radio program in the country will have Stiglitz, Noami Klein and Ray McGovern followed by Jerome Corsci, Ron Paul, and assorted John Birchers? And finds himself agreeing with at least part of what they say?

That alone makes it unique.

Good luck finding similar segments on Fox, CNN, CNBC, PBS, etc.

mdovell says

Both of these involved having to drive to Canada to resolve the problems. But I digress."

Sounds like incompetence on the part of the mechanics. If you look at the forum someone suggested that Goldstein post on, you can see that someone found a shop in Seattle that could fix this because the dealerships were too timid or unable to do it:

http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?showtopic=22779&hl=keys

Moreover, Goldstein is driving a car that was never intended to be driven in the U.S. and is complaining about it. I don't have a lot of sympathy. When you import a vehicle, you take the risks of the importation.

mdovell says

I had a small evap leak..which is fine but even in knowing that the error message is not specific enough to indicate WHERE the leak is. I have no problem with electronics as long as it gets specific..like in the near future I think they have a mandate that cars will indicate when there is low tire pressure.

How do you think mechanics found leaks before OBD-II? You do it the same way. By the way, EVAP is more about emissions control than anything else -- those check engine lights you are complaining about don't always result in lower performance for your vehicle, but rather lower emissions. It can be hard to diagnose, but I believe having your gas cap off can throw an EVAP code.

That tire pressure monitoring system regulation has been in effect for a while -- all 2008 model year cars and later require it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire-pressure_monitoring_system). That means since at least 2nd half of 2007, or almost 4 years.