patrick.net

smaulgld says

if people want a low cost high deductible plan why force them to take a more
expensive one. Like making someone buy a more expensive car because the
government thinks you should have a better car and the dealer needs the extra
money

Rather poor analogy. A better one would be, the government requires you to carry sufficient minimum car insurance, because that tempting low cost, high deductible, capped payout plan will not protect innocent others if you hit a row of BMWs, or a group of pedestrians incurring 7 figures of medical bills.
Nobody thinks they will hit the row of BMWs or get leukemia, but when they do, they'll be glad the government prevented them from buying a worthless policy from shysters- and even more importantly, so will the people who incurred losses.

Automan Empire says

smaulgld says

if people want a low cost high deductible plan why force them to take a more

expensive one. Like making someone buy a more expensive car because the

government thinks you should have a better car and the dealer needs the extra

money

Rather poor analogy. A better one would be, the government requires you to carry sufficient minimum car insurance, because that tempting low cost, high deductible, capped payout plan will not protect innocent others if you hit a row of BMWs, or a group of pedestrians incurring 7 figures of medical bills.

Nobody thinks they will hit the row of BMWs or get leukemia, but when they do, they'll be glad the government prevented them from buying a worthless policy from shysters- and even more importantly, so will the people who incurred losses.

We can debate the efficacy of the mandate but the part I see no value in is creating the web site to supposedly facilitate the purchase with a private insurance company.

Automan Empire says

A better one would be, the government requires you to carry sufficient minimum car insurance, because that tempting low cost, high deductible, capped payout plan will not protect innocent others if you hit a row of BMWs, or a group of pedestrians incurring 7 figures of medical bills.

It would be better one if in RL you were required to carry insurance enough to cover hitting a row of BMW or a group of pedestrians. California minimum is what 10/30?

smaulgld says

There is no shortage of losing causes to pursue!

Which is fine with me because it keeps the GOP constituency busy chasing after witch hunts and other things unrelated to actual government. Meanwhile we'll just keep on winning elections.

Automan Empire says

but when they do, they'll be glad the government prevented them from buying a worthless policy from shysters-

Here we go with the nanny state mentality- the government knows best, people are dumb and need gov't to protect them against themselves.

Yahoo just ran this article: Health Care Shoppers Aren't as Dumb as Obama Thinks They Are:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/healthcare-shoppers-aren%E2%80%99t-as-dumb-as-obama-thinks-195824524.html

edvard2 says

smaulgld says

There is no shortage of losing causes to pursue!

Which is fine with me because it keeps the GOP constituency busy chasing after witch hunts and other things unrelated to actual government. Meanwhile we'll just keep on winning elections.

"WE" yes I suppose when the Dems win "we" win!

Dems or Reps- Every way you look at it we lose.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9C1BCAgu2I8

smaulgld says

but the part I see no value in is creating the web site to supposedly facilitate
the purchase with a private insurance company.

Again, the states embraced the ACA and made their own websites are not having the problem. The Federal website had to be built out to fit 30+ different states. I don't disagree that the launch has been bollixed badly, but it is quite disingenuous of right-wingers to refuse to set up their own state's site, then point fingers of blame when the federal site to cover 30 states' asses doesn't launch smoothly. The right wing slogan should be, "Government doesn't work- elect us and we'll prove it!"
smaulgld says

Here we go with the nanny state mentality- the government knows best, people
are dumb and need gov't to protect them against themselves.

Insurers were selling people CRAP policies, resulting in personal bankruptcies, and burdening the various social safety nets, for the selfish act of choosing to get sick. What is your better solution, if not the ACA?

If Mitt Romney won and was implementing Romneycare nationally, how would you be behaving now?

Automan Empire says

If Mitt Romney won and was implementing Romneycare nationally, how would you be behaving now?

I am very amused that any criticism of Obama or Democrats results in a knee jerk reaction/assumption that the person doing the criticism is a Republican.

It really clouds your logic.

To answer your question I would be complaining and I am sure Republicans would attack me as an unamerican democrat

Automan Empire says

Nobody thinks they will hit the row of BMWs or get leukemia, but when they do, they'll be glad the government prevented them from buying a worthless policy from shysters- and even more importantly, so will the people who incurred losses

Yet still another post from an anti-choice liberal.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/healthcare-shoppers-aren%E2%80%99t-as-dumb-as-obama-thinks-195824524.html

Under Stadler’s expiring policy, his premiums are $411 a month, for coverage that always seemed adequate to him. “It’s not a substandard policy,” he says. “I thought it was a great deal.” The premium for the new policy offered by his insurer will be $843 a month.

The thing that gets me,” says Stadler, who voted for Obama in the 2012 presidential election, “is I thought Barack Obama was the only guy I could trust in Washington. He ended up lying to me because he said, if I like my insurance, I could keep it.”

http://www.youtube.com/embed/pKG4hF2xj0Q

Die hard Democrats refuse to face the facts about Obama care being a far bigger issue than the republicans "shutting down the government (i.e. the national parks)

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/10/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-big-trouble

PAY ATTENTION DEMS- From Mother Jones- hardly a Republican propaganda outlet

In Democratic districts, net incumbent approval has plummeted by 11 points, from +8 approval to +3 disapproval. In Republican districts, incumbent approval has gone down only 4 points.

smaulgld says

How do you know what I know perfectly well?

She has explained what she meant many times. Don't feign obtuse. Not buying it. This is why the repubs are going to lose big time in the next election. Everything you do is disingenuous. Thanks to the repukes, we now have a new word in the English language: "swiftboating".

Obamacare hits at integrity (you can keep your plan!), government competence (website doesn't work after$700 million spent) and the economy (healthcare costs rising and jobs becoming part time due to Ocare) far more than the Republicans' hissy fit over the budget that ended up with a harmless closing of the national parks and monuments

Homeboy says

smaulgld says

How do you know what I know perfectly well?

She has explained what she meant many times. Don't feign obtuse. Not buying it. This is why the repubs are going to lose big time in the next election. Everything you do is disingenuous.

Seriously, I have never heard her explain it. Please link to me what she meant.
I really could care less if the Dems or Reps are in power.I think they are both up to their eyes in hypocrisy and backed by drone like unthinking supporters

Homeboy says

This is why the repubs are going to lose big time in the next election.

Funny you think I care if the republicans get their clocks cleaned?
I hope they and their false rivals the Democraps both lose

smaulgld says

Obamacare hits at integrity (you can keep your plan!),

Disingenuous. You KNEW there were going to be minimum standards for insurance, and that scam plans that don't cover anything would no longer be allowed. They've been saying it for 4 years. Yet you pretend that you didn't know that.

smaulgld says

government competence (website doesn't work after$700 million spent)

Repubs are being disingenuous on this too. They pretend that the federal site is the total of EVERYONE who has signed up for ACA, when actually the federal site is only for the red states whose leaders tried to sabotage the law by refusing to set up their own exchanges. Exchanges are working just fine in the blue states.

smaulgld says

(healthcare costs rising and jobs becoming part time due to Ocare

This one's just an outright lie. The number of part time jobs as a percentage of all jobs has gone DOWN, not up, and premiums have risen LESS than they were rising before ACA, and that's before you even take the subsidies into account.

Homeboy says

Thanks to the repukes, we now have a new word in the English language: "swiftboating".

swiftboating for your Dem hero "Let's Bomb Syria" John Kerry
Gaslighting for the Repuke hero "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" Colin Powell

Who cares?Childish party politics -all lies and they get you all excited to hate dems or reps while they both laugh all the way to the bank

Homeboy says

This one's just an outright lie. The number of part time jobs as a percentage of all jobs has gone DOWN, not up, and premiums have risen LESS than they were rising before ACA, and that's before you even take the subsidies into account.

Of course the economy is fine and if it isn't its george bush's fault
The economy went off the rails 30 years ago when we decided to outsource everything and print the difference.

I can't argue with a Democratic National Committee talking points because I am not on the Republican national committee

smaulgld says

swiftboating for your Dem hero "Let's Bomb Syria" John Kerry

Gaslighting for the Repuke hero "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" Colin Powell

Who cares?Childish party politics

Sounds like an admission of guilt if I've ever heard one.

smaulgld says

Of course the economy is fine and if it isn't its george bush's fault

The economy went off the rails 30 years ago

Disingenuous again. We weren't talking about whether the "economy is fine", we were specifically talking about whether ACA has increased the percentage of part time jobs. It has not.

Homeboy says

Disingenuous. You KNEW there were going to be minimum standards for insurance, and that scam plans that don't cover anything would no longer be allowed. They've been saying it for 4 years. Yet you pretend that you didn't know that.

Yeah I KNEW exactly what Obama said
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/30/if-you-like-your-plan-you-can-keep-it-_n_4175715.html

"IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH CARE PLAN YOU CAN KEEP YOU PLAN"- Barrack Obama countless times

So I KNEW otherwise?

smaulgld says

Funny you think I care if the republicans get their clocks cleaned?

Yeah, I think you care. I think you have a hard on for the republicans. You use all their talking points and catch phrases.

smaulgld says

"IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH CARE PLAN YOU CAN KEEP YOU PLAN"- Barrack Obama countless times

So I KNEW otherwise?

Ah, ignore the substance of my post and simply repeat the talking point. That's standard MO for you.

Twenty -three times from the Head of Obama Care
If you like your plan you can keep your plan

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/30/if-you-like-your-plan-you-can-keep-it-_n_4175715.html

So its my fault if I KNEW there was going to be minimum standards. I should not have listened to Obama
Same thing when he railed against the debt ceiling as a Senator-he didn't mean it right?

They have many of us trained to to support the home team right or wrong (most often wrong)

You know, I'm beginning to think that BenghaziCare is worse than Solyndra, and perhaps even than the travel-office firings!

Homeboy says

Ah, ignore the substance of my post and simply repeat the talking point. That's standard MO for you.

What talking point? Those are Obama's words TWENTY THREE times per the Huffington post.

What is the vested interest in defending an outright lie?

HydroCabron says

You know, I'm beginning to think that BenghaziCare is worse than Solyndra, and perhaps even than the travel-office firings!

You may be on to something!

Homeboy says

Yeah, I think you care. I think you have a hard on for the republicans. You use all their talking points and catch phrases.

Dems can only argue with republicans and vice versa
They are dumbfounded when some one disagrees with them and they are not a dem or rep as their argumentation technique is only capable of discrediting the other party not the argument

Homeboy says

Disingenuous again. We weren't talking about whether the "economy is fine", we were specifically talking about whether ACA has increased the percentage of part time jobs. It has not.

It has deterred hiring

If you like your plan... you can keep your plan

http://www.youtube.com/embed/wfl55GgHr5E

If you like your plan... I am not a crook
http://www.youtube.com/embed/sh163n1lJ4M

If you like your plan ...I did not trade arms for hostages but the facts and the evidence indicate otherwise

http://www.youtube.com/embed/R67CH-qhXJs

If you like your plan... READ MY LIPS NO NEW TAXES

http://www.youtube.com/embed/RZtaZTEO3jA

If you like your plan...I did not have sexual relations with that woman

http://www.youtube.com/embed/KiIP_KDQmXs

If you like your plan.... Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction

http://www.youtube.com/embed/gMStCHtUNeY

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

HydroCabron says

You know, I'm beginning to think that BenghaziCare is worse than Solyndra, and perhaps even than the travel-office firings!

No, BenghaziCare is EXACTLY like the campaign of Caligulan violence perpetrated by Charles Taylor in Sierra Leone, specifically sex slavery, conscripting and drugging of children soldiers and ritual amputations of adversaries.

Crookcare
Iran Contra Care
MyLipCare
LewinskyCare
Iraqcare
Who Cares?

In San Francisco, Apple unveiled its new products. Apple said, 'This iPad is the fastest and most vivid way to not be able to log on to the Obamacare website.' — Jimmy Kimmel

Here's my favorite part: The president said yesterday that if it's taking too long you can bypass the [Obamacare] website and enroll by mail. Only the federal government could come up with a website that's slower than sending something by mail! — Jay Leno

zzyzzx says

Only the federal government could come up with a website that's slower than sending something by mail!

If true they will close the post office for a month!