patrick.net

Obozo the clown -Champion of the NSA, champion of free trade, champion of big banks, champion of drone strikes on US citizens, champion of arresting people without charges and holding them indefinitely, champion of FATCA that forces the entire world's banks to spy on Americans abroad and report back on their assets under threat of sanctions/punishment-err also Nobel Peace prize winner.

This survey is nonsense and basically fantasy for conservatives. You don't need a slide rule or basic calculator to determine who was worse for the country. I've noticed there has been a recent campaign coming almost exclusively from right-leaning sources, making generic claims that Obama is either incompetent of "weak" when there's actually no facts to remotely back that claim while there's plenty to show that Bush was in fact not only highly incompetent, but was perhaps one of the worst Presidents in US history when it came to international relations, the economy, and national politics.

The bottom line is that GW was probably the last hurrah of the "Old" GOP and as such many on the right are sad about it and the best they can do is come up with some wet-noodle, weak-ass claim.

Lastly... GW's approval rating towards the end was seriously in the single digits. Its laughable that anyone would make any claim that Obama is less competent when his approval ratings have never been even remotely close to the lowest of GW's. So if people want to make up a bunch of crap it should at least have an inkling of logic tied to it in the first place.

Call it Crazy says

We know you're a little "slow", so I'll explain that graphic for you..

It blames BOTH of them for trashing the economy but the difference was Bush had a democrat controlled Congress his last two years, while YOUR boy had full control over Congress and STILL didn't correct the issues but made them WORSE

I'm only slow because I'm waiting for you to catch up. Your graphic says Bush managed to trash the economy with a democratic house (you did read it didn't you?). Bush trashed the economy before there was a democratic house, he quite nicely trashed it with 6 years of republican house. Did you get that concept or do I need to type really, really slowly.

bob2356 says

Obama sucks, Bush sucked worse.

Where in there do I say Obama is my boy? If that isn't clear enough then I'm not really sure I can type slowly enough for you to comprehend.

You put up the liberal logic bs, but not because you are far right winger who believes sunspots are obamas fault. No of course not. Just because I reject pure bullshit like you post doesn't mean I support obama in any way shape or form. Unlike you I can dislike him for what he has actually done or not done, without having to make up shit.

It's all Obama's fault!!!

marcus says

Fox news "survey."

I'm not impressed.

CNN says essentially the same thing:
http://patrick.net/?p=1243679

lakermania says

Sigh. Completely ignore the Gallup link I provided in my post, which gives historical approval ratings for all the recent presidents at this exact point in Obama's presidency

Um, no it doesn't. This is your link:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116479/barack-obama-presidential-job-approval.aspx

It's OBAMA's approval rating, not Bush.

Dumb shit.

lakermania says

You didn't even provide the source for your Bush rating, even though you have stated it twice.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-07-09-bush-poll_N.htm - 29% in 2007

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/06/28/fox-news-poll-bush-approval-rating-hits-new-low/ - 31% in 2007

Any more questions?

lakermania says

in favor of a cherry picked date in some little, biased NY Times poll used in article written by some left wing nut job who is now a commentator for NPR and MSNBC.

Nope, it was your beloved Fox News.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

lakermania says

We are all a little biased one way or the other, but some folks like you are so hell bent on pushing for their agenda, they lose all objectivity and are completely clueless as to why most people don't accept their views and statements as gospel.

You just described yourself perfectly.

Call it Crazy says

Yep, when climb in bed with the banksters and you don't arrest and jail the crooks and thieves, the sky is the limit!!

The bailouts were done by Bush, or did you conveniently forget that?

Call it Crazy says

Sure... That NEGATIVE GDP print last quarter was wonderful!!! Yep, Over 5 years later, Obama is doing a GREAT job!!!

I guess he needs just a little more time....

Are you going to look at the charts I posted, or are you going to cherry pick some shit you heard on Fox News? Charts don't lie, my friend.

Call it Crazy says

Now, go run the graph of the Labor Force Participation Rate and get back to us..

More cherry picking, I see. So you can look at graphs of GDP, unemployment, and stock market, completely ignore them, and then blather about some OTHER thing.

Nope, no bias there, LOL.

bob2356 says

Where in there do I say Obama is my boy? If that isn't clear enough then I'm not really sure I can type slowly enough for you to comprehend.

That's how the mouth-foaming right attacks.

"Bush was a better president than Obama."

"No he wasn't."

"AH HA! You're just a cheerleader for Obama."

Logic fail.

bob2356 says

Homeboy says

As for Reagan - WRONG. His approval rating was 42% in 1987.

What part of at the same point didn't you get?

Don't understand the question. Perhaps you could actually STATE it instead of posting blithe sarcasm.

2 years before the end of his term. Wasn't 1987 2 years before the end of Reagan's term? If I made a math error, please tell me.

W did prosecute financial criminals, however. WorldCom, Enron (campaign contributors, no less.)

Homeboy says

2 years before the end of his term. Wasn't 1987 2 years before the end of Reagan's term? If I made a math error, please tell me.

Reagan left office Jan 1989 so Jan 1987 would be 2 years. Obama will leave office Jan 2017 so Jan 2014 would be 3 years. My apologies if you made a simple math error rather than trying to slide something in, I'm so used to the right wingnuts throwing random cherry picked numbers around I am beginning to automatically assume people do it on purpose.

Call it Crazy says

Which is going parabolic under Obama...

Bullshit, you can't read a chart. Bush took office Jan 2001. His first budget would be Nov 2001 debt 6 billion. His last budget would have ended Oct 2009 at 12 billion or a rise of 6 billion. O went from 12 billion to projected 19 billion in 2017 or a rise of 7 billion. So 7 billion is parabolic compared to 6 billion? How does that work? Especially considering the train wreck Bush left behind. Where was you outrage about parabolic debt in 2009? Give it up. Bush and O are just as bad no matter how much you try to polish turd number 1.

Call it Crazy says

bob2356 says

Where in there do I say Obama is my boy?

That's funny... You spend a hell of a lot of time defending his actions if he ain't "your" boy??

No I don't defend his actions, Find where that happened, go ahead. I just point out bullshit being thrown around (mostly by you) trying to say O was worse than "your boy" Bush.

Homeboy says

Obama was unable to improve the economy? Let's see:

building roads is hardly the way to increase good jobs... at least with Bush we saw venture capital pick up fueling new companies and jobs...
What did Obama do to improve the economy ?

Homeboy says

Unemployment - Skyrocketed at beginning and end of Bush's term; went down throughout ObamgUnemployment - Skyrocketed at beginning and end of Bush's term; went down throughout Obama's tenure.ha's tenure.

Long Term unemployment is at record highs... many simply dropped out of the workforce... Bushs policy in the beginning of 2001 did improve hiring. There are still no Obama policies to increase hiring..

Homeboy says

Stock market - Worst crash since Great Depression at end of Bush's term, up to record highs during Obama's tenure.

Again, not something Obama can cheer about... that goes to Bush for putting in policies to recover the economy and stock market... and that he did twice... 2001 and end of term. Again what Obama policy increased GDP and the stock market.... Its the same story with his father as Bush Sr. put in policies that rebounded the economy.... but for no reason Clinton takes created for not doing anything...

Call it Crazy says

Funny... There you go defending again...

How do the words just as bad constitute a defense in your weird world?

Call it Crazy says

BTW, I was comparing chart to chart to get a comparison, just like HomeFried was... Not budget years...

Why did you edit the comment? What happened to parabolic? Are you that desperate? You still either can't read the chart or don't know what the fiscal year is.

thomaswong.1986 says

building roads is hardly the way to increase good jobs... at least with Bush we saw venture capital pick up fueling new companies and jobs...

Sorry, but I posted DATA. You are merely making blind assertions. Next...

thomaswong.1986 says

Long Term unemployment is at record highs...

Apparently you are unable to read a simple chart. Next...

thomaswong.1986 says

Bushs policy in the beginning of 2001 did improve hiring.

Hmmm... Bush improved hiring, yet unemployment rose. Um, that doesn't make sense. Next....

thomaswong.1986 says

Again, not something Obama can cheer about... that goes to Bush for putting in policies to recover the economy and stock market...

HA HA HA HA!!!! You are as partisan as they come, my friend. Thanks for the laugh.

bob2356 says

. My apologies if you made a simple math error rather than trying to slide something in, I'm so used to the right wingnuts throwing random cherry picked numbers around I am beginning to automatically assume people do it on purpose.

No, definitely not on purpose. I screwed up. Sorry.

Call it Crazy says

So did the debt under Obama:

According to that chart, the debt to GDP ratio was 55.5% in Q4 2001, which would be the first time Bush would have had any influence over the budget, right? Then in Q4 2009, it was 84.5%. So it increased 29% under Bush. It's currently 102.9%. So it increased 18.4% under Obama.

Bush = loser.

Call it Crazy says

Having a tough time reading a chart again I see... UE went up in the beginning of Bush's term because of a recession and then dropped during his second term..

Um, no. Unlike you, I can read a chart. I said it went up at the beginning and end of Bush's presidency, which it did. What part of that didn't you understand?

So let me see if I understand your argument here. It seems to go something like this: Bush did a better job with the economy than Obama, because there was a recession while Bush was president, so any problems don't count. Is that your argument? LOL.

Call it Crazy says

Hmmm... How many of those 92 Million not in the work force (almost 1/3 of the US population) benefited from that rise in the Stock Market??

Raw numbers with no context and no comparison mean nothing. Try again.

Call it Crazy says

Climbed around 4 Trillion during Bush's 8 years versus climbing 7 Trillion during Obama's 5 years...

Um, nice try, buddy. Bush left office in 2009, not 2008.

2001: 5769 billion
2009: 11,875 billion

Increase: 6106 billion

2009: 11,875 billion
2013: 16,719 billion

Increase: 4844 billion

So Bush's record is worse.

You lose.

Bush sucked. Quit trying to polish that turd. It's not getting any shinier.

bob2356 says

Bush and O are just as bad

wat.

Obama has not thrown away trillions on new military misadventures:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/FDEFX

Debt-wise, what happened since 1999 is clear enough:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=CNw

YOY consumer debt increase (blue) artificially juiced the economy, giving us the Bush Boom that brought down deficits 2005-2008.

But it all crashed once home debtors could not longer pay the piper and the $100 BILLION PER MONTH flow directly into the middle quintiles collapsed.

Obama's recovery plan was to replace this with $1T+ of stimulus spending, and that has got us where we are, since after 2010 Congress hasn't done shit about improving the economy.

At this point I'd give Obama a C-, and I don't know what grade I can give Bush; what letter grade can represent a man that destroyed my country through demonstrated incompetent commitment to ideological stupidity?

Being the frontman for neocon adventurism, "Deficits don't matter", defending our existing hydrocarbon energy sector, deregulation and de-policing of the nation's financial system, going after gay people in 2004 (after the MA gay marriage decision made that a hot-button issue for the religious nutjobs that are the dominant faction of the GOP).

Obama's sins are largely that of omission rather than commission.

He's been a spectator since the Dems lost the Senate supermajority in late 2009 and the House altogether in 2010.

A strong president can be more than that, but given the general rightward tilt of the corporatocratic media environment, a President in the minority can push rightwards but not leftwards effectively.

On a caucus basis, conservatives have been much stronger in Congress 2000-now than the GOP/Dem party split appears to show.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/02/03/how-congress-became-the-most-polarized-and-unproductive-its-ever-been/

Conservatives destroyed this place and now they're stopping the effort to rebuild.

Well played, well played.

Bellingham Bill says

bob2356 says

Bush and O are just as bad

wat.

Obama has not thrown away trillions on new military misadventures:

He has continued to erode civil rights at an ever accelerating pace. This is much worse. Wars will end eventually. Debt will be repaid or defaulted on. Lost rights will never be recovered. No government in history has ever voluntarily reduced its intrusion into citizens lives.

President Obama walked into the Bank of America to cash a check. As he approached the cashier he said, "Good morning Ma'am, could you please cash this check for me?"
Cashier:
"It would be my pleasure sir. Would you please show me your ID?"

Obama:
"Truthfully, I did not bring my ID with me as I didn't think there was any need to. I am Barack Obama, the President of the United States of AMERICA !!!!"

Cashier:
"Yes sir, I know who you are, but with all the regulations and monitoring of the banks because of impostors and forgers and requirements of the Dodd /Frank legislation, etc., I must insist on seeing your ID.

Obama:
"Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they will tell you. Everybody knows who I am."
Cashier:
"I am sorry Mr. President but these are the bank rules and I must follow them."

Obama:
"I order you to cash this check!"

Cashier:
"Look Mr. President, here is an example of what we can do. One day, Tiger Woods came into the bank without ID. To prove he was Tiger Woods he pulled out his putter and made a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup. With that shot we knew him to be Tiger Woods and cashed his check.

Another time, Andre Agassi came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racquet and made a fabulous shot whereas the tennis ball landed in my cup. With that shot we cashed his check.
So, Mr. President, what can you do to prove that it is you, and only you, as the President of the United States ?"

Obama stands there thinking, and thinking, and finally says, "Honestly, I can't think of a single thing. I don't have a clue what to do.

Cashier:
"Will that be large or small bills, Mr. President?

bob2356 says

He has continued to erode civil rights at an ever accelerating pace. This is much worse.

Depends on his successors more than he; I am not any less free in 2014 than I was in 2008, though I will concede the powers Obama has not rolled back are easily abusable by future fascists.

But this is a failure of our democracy as a whole and not one man. Should Obama fail to let the Deep State do its thing, they can easily slime him as weak and a danger to the national security, of having caused Americans to get killed.

Again, a failure of omission and not commission. We need a leader to get the people moving in the right direction, and Obama has not been this person.

No government in history has ever voluntarily reduced its intrusion into citizens lives.

There is a serious issue between our elected representatives, the powers that run the parties, the [corporate] press that sets and enforces the Agenda of what we're allowed to talk about nationally.

Like all of us, Obama's just been along for the ride, especially since the GOP took over the House in 2011.

Like when I hear people talk about a given corporation as a single entity (e.g. "Apple should XYZ . . .", it is not particularly intelligent to talk about 'government' as a single entity as in your above.

Of course the snoops are going to snoop and the sp00ks are going to sp00k.
J Edgar didn't run the FBI for decades being a nice guy.

The President is constitutionally directed to run the government as Congress directs. If Congress doesn't like what the Executive is doing, they have the power to change that through changing the law and impeachment if the President (or people below him) flouts the law.

And if we the people don't like Congress, we can work to send better representatives to that body. This is a long, long war though that cannot be won in an afternoon or bullshitting on the internet for that matter.

Homeboy says

Um, no it doesn't. This is your link:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116479/barack-obama-presidential-job-approval.aspx

It's OBAMA's approval rating, not Bush.

Dumb shit

At this point, it gives me no pleasure to correct you, in fact I literally feel sympathy for you, because locating and processing very basic information is beyond you. Hopefully it's just blind rage and not mental impairment.

Yes, the link is an Obama approval rating link, but right below his first four approval rating figures, is the header "historical comparisons" with ratings of all the recent presidents during the this same point in their presidencies. If it was in PDF format, it would be located towards the top of the first page.

Bellingham Bill says

Depends on his successors more than he; I am not any less free in 2014 than I was in 2008, though I will concede the powers Obama has not rolled back are easily abusable by future fascists

If you don't think you are less secure then you haven't been paying attention. https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/obamas_first_term_track_record_on_civil_liberties You are the frog in the pot with the temp going up slowly.

Bellingham Bill says

But this is a failure of our democracy as a whole and not one man. Should Obama fail to let the Deep State do its thing, they can easily slime him as weak and a danger to the national security, of having caused Americans to get killed.

It's Obama's job to stop the deep state. Period. His own self interest will prevent it, but it is his job.

Bellingham Bill says

Like when I hear people talk about a given corporation as a single entity (e.g. "Apple should XYZ . . .", it is not particularly intelligent to talk about 'government' as a single entity as in your above.

Ok, then let's say that no large collection of self interested competing bureaucracies existing at the taxpayers expense has every in history volutarily reduced it's size or relinquished any of it's control of citizens' lives. Is that quibble over now? I notice you didn't name any ones that did.

It's a long war that has never been won. The power of the encumbency to game the system and self delusion of the voters believing in a chicken in every pot is a symbiotic relationship that always has the same end result.

bob2356 says

The power of the encumbency to game the system

Wrong way around.

Did we ask for the TSA? Hell yes we did! Everyone was so shit-scared of terrorists they welcomed it with open arms. Funding? No problem. Actual utility? We don't need to measure that or even think about it, it makes us FEEL safer. When I was in the aiports just after 9/11 and the National Guard were standing around everywhere with M16 over their shoulders what did people say? How comforting it was!

Now you have a generation that's grown up under it, and can't imagine anything else. Have their parents demanded an end to it? Nope, they sign up for GlobalEntry & PreCheck to minimize the problems. The few who publicly oppose are just nutters like Rand Paul not regular citizens.

Where was the citizen outrage when the Room 641A at AT&T was uncovered, where the NSA had built-in taps? Almost nonexistent! I guarantee you 99.99% of the people who read about it back in 2006 have now forgotten all about it. Only Snowden continuing to rub it in people's faces by SLOWLY dribbling out stuff, keeps the NSA in the news at all. Far more people HATE Snowden, than give him any sort of listen at all. My own spouse, who is from Europe and talks about the evils of the CIA, School of the Americas, etc. and is generally suspicious of the American gov't, left the room when a TED talk about Snowden came on the screen she thinks the guy is a traitor.

You want any of this to unhappen, you need regular people to voice their disapproval of it, not just the conspiracy-obsessed fringe.

Yes there's always some idiot with a suit who says "you've got a problem? I have a program or a system that can help", and it's your job as a citizen to think about whether that will actually help and follow up on it's effectiveness later. WE don't do that is the real problem. I don't care whether it's a contractor selling you on the idea of sharks with laser beams to hunt in the desert, or one selling Nude-o-Scan to stop shoebombers it's the same thing. We don't want to think about it, we want to outsource all our thinking and fighting and so on. Can't get enough volunteers for the military? Let's offer citizenships as a prize so we can turn the Army into a sort of French Foreign Legion.

Caveat emptor.

lakermania says

At this point, it gives me no pleasure to correct you, in fact I literally feel sympathy for you, because locating and processing very basic information is beyond you. Hopefully it's just blind rage and not mental impairment.

Ha ha. You are so funny. Yeah, that's VERY hard to see, since all the headings say "Obama", and it's a long webpage to scroll through, and they stuck the other presidents' names over on the right side.

That was before the Iran-Contra scandal came out, and after Reagan was shot, so people had sympathy for him but didn't yet realize the horrific things his administration was doing.

indigenous says

"Honestly, I can't think of a single thing. I don't have a clue what to do.

Cashier:

"Will that be large or small bills, Mr. President?

Good one !

Call it Crazy says

Boy, Still math challenged again, I see....

You're comparing 8 years of Bush with 4 years of Obama to prove your point... Duh....

Try comparing Obama's to Bush numbers after 4 years... Which I know you won't...

Where will the debt be when you tack on another 4 years of Obama?? Anyone want to take a guess??

So, who's the idiot here again???

Wow. Just wow.

Now I remember why I had you on ignore. You are completely irrational. Makes me think your account is shared by more than one person, or you have multiple personalities.

YOU are the one who posted the chart and compared Bush's ENTIRE presidency to Obama's presidency up to the present. All I did was correct your stupid fucking mistake where you credited one of Bush's years to Obama.

YOU posted the chart; I just corrected your fuzzy math. Now you're trying to turn it around. Nice try, troll.

Call it Crazy says

Are you really that fucked up in the head??

Once again, you're comparing 8 years of Bush to 4 years of Obama...

You are one fucking idiot!!!

Hmmm....repeating the exact same false charge in a separate post. Is this another one of your personalities talking? This personality is kind of a potty mouth.

Homeboy says

but didn't yet realize the horrific things his administration was doing.

Its a shame the Contras didnt invade the Capital, taken Sandinista Ortega and tried and hanged him... today Ortega is turning Nicaragua into a dictatorship.

Nicaragua: On the Brink of Dictatorship
February 26, 2014

http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2014/02/25/nicaragua-brink-dictatorship

Obama’s Poisonous Fruit: Nicaragua’s Ortega Nullifies Constitutional Law, Paves Way for Dictator for life

http://pamelageller.com/2009/10/obamas-poisonous-fruit-nicaraguas-ortega-nullifies-constitutional-law-paves-way-for-dictator-for-lif.html/#sthash.BAFQfhq7.dpuf

What's your point, Thomaswrong?

Call it Crazy says

Who was the person who posted the original GDP graph and Unemployment graph showing ALL of the Bush years and then Obama years and compared the two??? Is YOUR memory that short???

All I wrote was that GDP went up throughout Obama's tenure. I did not make any numerical calculation of increase comparing 5 years to 8 years.

Call it Crazy says

Do I need to repost YOUR chart as a reminder??? How's that dementia coming along??

Go ahead. Here's a link: http://patrick.net/?p=1243641&c=1090804#comment-1090804

And when you re-read my earlier post, please note that YOU posted a stupid fucking picture saying Obama "was not able to improve the economy and was unable to keep it from getting worse." To which I replied with DATA showing the economy DID in fact get better. You're forgetting that the ONLY issue there was whether Obama was unable to improve the economy, as your stupid little fucking picture claimed.

But let me see if I understand you: It's o.k. for you to claim that Bush was a better president, based on your unfounded assertion that Obama "made the economy worse", but if I disprove your assertion with DATA, then it doesn't count because Obama's term isn't finished yet?

Yeah, that's fair. LOL.

Most people measure the economy through GDP, unemployment, and the stock market. Apparently YOU measure it by what you imagine inside your mind.

Call it Crazy says

It was the other way, asshole... I corrected YOUR fuzzy math where you compared 8 Bush years to 4 Obama years... Remember yet???

Wow, you really are a troll and a liar.

Again, MY post: http://patrick.net/?p=1243641&c=1090804#comment-1090804

Is there a chart of gross debt in that post? No, there is not.

Now, YOUR post:

http://patrick.net/?p=1243641&c=1091063#comment-1091063

Is there a chart of gross debt in your post? Why yes, there is. And what do you SAY about that chart? You say: "Climbed around 4 Trillion during Bush's 8 years versus climbing 7 Trillion during Obama's 5 years..." So you are comparing Bush's 8 years to Obama's 5 years (plus you didn't even pick the right years). Did I do that first, as you claim? How could I possibly? I never posted that chart.

You are a scum-sucking, lying fuckbag troll, who's about a hair's breadth from going on ignore again.

Call it Crazy says

All I did was correct TWO of your stupid fucking mistakes where you compared 8 Bush years to 4 Obama years...

I have noticed something about you. When you lose an argument, you completely flip out and start making up lies. Really low class, dude.

Call it Crazy says

Sure looks like you compared Bush's 8 years to Obama's 5 based on the dates of your graphs below...

Homeboy says

GDP - fell at end of Bush's term; went back up throughout Obama's tenure.

Call it Crazy says

HomeFried says

Unemployment - Skyrocketed at beginning and end of Bush's term; went down throughout Obama's tenure.

Call it Crazy says

Homeboy says

How could I possibly?

It's right there in black and white... Are you really that stupid??

The charts do exactly what he said. GDP dropped and Unemployment skyrocketed the last year bush was in office. They have been going the other way since obama took office. What do you see in black and white that's different from that? You do realize O took office Jan 2009 don't you?

You know, all you gotta read is that Fox News conducted the poll. How the questions are phrased and asked to produce the desired result is also a well-known technique. I'm no fan of the current president, but the previous one? Come on, be real.