patrick.net

Don't be so sure Zionists are involved. I know in Israel, there is massive disagreement about supporting the Ukraine or Russia. If anything, the public opinion is more on Russia's side.

Could be because a large number of Jewish immigrants are from Russia, and have been exposed to a lot of propaganda.

33

Y 2014 Dec 21, 10:38am

Propaganda for the motherCitizens

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-22/china-offers-russia-help-with-suggestion-of-wider-currency-swap.html

SoftShell says

Putin says russia is doing nothing to aid the rebels militarily.

Do you believe that?

thunderlips11 says

I'm make another thread for all the "Russian Aid" the DPR is getting.

Why does Putin lie when he knows we already know the truth.

34

Y 2014 Dec 21, 10:40am

United States gets its propaganda from the mainstream media. Russkies get their propaganda straight from the horse's ass.

35

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 21, 11:07am

yup1 says

The Ruble follows the price of oil in US dollars nothing more. Oil is down in US dollars the ruble is down. Oil goes back up the Ruble goes up. Russia keeps the same $3480 ruble per barrel of oil to keep a constant flow of funds to the government. Nothing more nothing less. Russia cannot and does not want to trade oil in Ruble because they cannot take 40% less for their oil and stay solvent.

The other side is that Russian oil is priced in Rubles, so a cheap Ruble makes Russian gas more attractive. Especially if Russia is very interested in taking non-USD for it.

36

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 21, 11:20am

SoftShell says

this is my favorite part...

thunderlips11 says

Because one of them for India and both in China's case, US Carrier Battle Groups and Land Bases can shut these straits down in a heartbeat, denying all traffic:

But...
China doubles Iran Oil Infrastructure investment - to $52B
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30075807

China in Central Asia
http://chinaincentralasia.com/2014/11/27/chinas-energy-security-strategy-in-central-asia/

"Central Asia is the thickest piece of cake given to the modern Chinese by the heavens." ~ General Liu Yazhou of China's People's Liberation Army (PLA)

It's a place where the US has little to no real influence, no historic ties, no cultural ties, and far beyond the reach of gunboat diplomacy.

37

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 21, 11:38am

You're still our #1 Defense Partner, Modi tells Putin. Also, please give us more nuke plants, helicopters, and diamonds. Cut out those NYC, Antwerp and Tel Aviv middlemen, sell directly to us, Mr. Putin. And we'd love to invest in your arctic oil projects, too.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/12/11/india-russia-idINKBN0JO2CA20141211
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-2869167/Sanctions-hit-Putin-visits-India-boost-energy-trade-ties.html
(by the way, fun to watch the US MSM try to spin this as "India is more powerful" versus "Russia is obviously not isolated".)

After all, the US has a long history of being anti-India in terms of foreign policy. From Goa to the various Indo-Pak wars, the US has usually been on the side of India's enemies.
http://nixontapes.org/india-pakistan.html

Oh, and speaking of Goa, guess what the Grey Lady, that font of "moderation" had to say about the "unreasonable" annexation of Goa from Portugal.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E04E5DC153DEF32A2575AC1A9649D946091D6CF

Why, Nehru has done "irreparable damage" to India's reputation. When people speak of violence and violations of "International Morality", the "illegal" seizure of Goa is right on the tips of their tongues hahahahaha.

38

Y 2014 Dec 21, 11:39am

you fail to recognize that in the name of nuclear proliferation all of Iran's oil pipeline infrastructure will be destroyed during the coming attack destroying all of Iran's nuclear capability.

39

Y 2014 Dec 21, 11:41am

Israel will be our proxy as the oil fields of Iran burn.

40

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 21, 11:51am

SoftShell says

Israel will be our proxy as the oil fields of Iran burn.

It's all neocon tough talk rubbish. Asia won't stand for it - and China and India are absolute KEY partners of Israel as well as being the major buyers of Iranian Gas. Not to mention the prevailing winds in Iran run SW. That means Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, etc. will experience fallout.

Which will probably not make them very happy.

China and India's "Words are backed with Nuclear Weapons" also. Maybe they'll think that a little tiny state that just nixed a substantial source of their energy supply needs to vanish before it does more harm to their interests. It would only take one nuke to destroy Israel, small country.

It'll never happen anyway. It'll guarantee Israel will become a total pariah and rogue state, not just with Arabs, but worldwide.

41

Y 2014 Dec 21, 12:36pm

Israel has itchy trigger finger it won't take much to push them over the edge

42

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 22, 2:27am

China confident in Russia, offers Yuan-Ruble Swap

Two Chinese ministers offered support for Russia as President Vladimir Putin seeks to shore up the ruble without depleting foreign-exchange reserves.

China will provide help if needed and is confident Russia can overcome its economic difficulties, Foreign Minister Wang Yi was cited as saying in Bangkok in a Dec. 20 report by Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV. Commerce Minister Gao Hucheng said expanding a currency swap between the two nations and making increased use of yuan for bilateral trade would have the greatest impact in aiding Russia, according to the broadcaster.

While the offer wonâ€™t relieve the main sources of pressure on the ruble -- capital outflow tied to plunging oil prices and sanctions linked to Russiaâ€™s annexation of Crimea from Ukraine - - the currency gained 3.1 percent against the dollar by 12:37 p.m. in Moscow.

It ain't 1975 no more.

43

Strategist 2014 Dec 22, 2:31am

China confident in Russia, offers Yuan-Ruble Swap

Russia has to turn for help to third world countries. A great state with a future when Gorbachev was the leader, has been turned into failed state with no future by Putin. It's sad.

44 Blurtman 2014 Dec 22, 4:26am

What happens when US client state Israel bombs Chinese investments in Iran? Will China, as Russia has been doing to some degree, arm Iran?

45

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 22, 4:48am

Russia has to turn for help to third world countries

Strategist, as they say in the South, "Bless your heart."

46

Peter P 2014 Dec 22, 4:53am

I thought Russia and China were enemies of each other.

47

Y 2014 Dec 22, 5:06am

with what? m80's??

Blurtman says

Will China, as Russia has been doing to some degree, arm Iran?

48

Y 2014 Dec 22, 5:10am

I believe all threads should have a color commentator...

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-watchdog-blocks-pages-calling-navalny-support-protest-142219122.html

SoftShell says

Israel will be our proxy as the oil fields of Iran burn.

It's all neocon tough talk rubbish.

49

just_passing_through 2014 Dec 22, 5:28am

Yeah, Russia a super great place to be...

"Russia's Internet watchdog is working to block social networking sites rallying support for a mass protest next month backing Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny, activists said on Monday."

Just keep telling yourself that..

50

just_passing_through 2014 Dec 22, 5:33am

Here is another pro-Russian article... I wasn't even looking for these.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-growls-across-border-lithuania-readies-euro-090922556.html

"Geopolitics plague Lithuanians at this frozen Russian border post, where a return trip by car can mean 48 hours of queuing. It is a reminder for some of why the former Soviet republic will cement its move to the West by joining the euro zone next month."

51

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 22, 6:32am

"Russia's Internet watchdog is working to block social networking sites rallying support for a mass protest next month backing Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny, activists said on Monday."

Uh huh. Tell me about the new "Ministry of Truth" in the Ukraine.

You do realize that Navalny is less popular in Russia than the Constitution Party is in the US. What does Yabloko, darling of Neoliberals, poll? 3-5%? I think last time they were just a percentage point away from getting a whole one seat in the Duma.

"Geopolitics plague Lithuanians at this frozen Russian border post, where a return trip by car can mean 48 hours of queuing. It is a reminder for some of why the former Soviet republic will cement its move to the West by joining the euro zone next month."

So unreasonable, after Lithuanians are serving in the Ukraine government itself, and they've emptied their military warehouses for the Donbass Punitive Operation.

Do you think the next time fascism rises in Europe, the Lithuanians will greet them with roses and start killing the Jews 24 hours before they see the first Wehrmacht soldier like last time? Or will they actually wait for them to arrive first and bring them double stuff Oreos?

52

Strategist 2014 Dec 22, 6:50am

Blurtman says

What happens when US client state Israel bombs Chinese investments in Iran? Will China, as Russia has been doing to some degree, arm Iran?

If they are dumb enough to invest in Iran, they deserve to lose it all.

53

Strategist 2014 Dec 22, 6:53am

Strategist says

Russia has to turn for help to third world countries

Strategist, as they say in the South, "Bless your heart."

Thanks for the blessings.
Thunder, when are you gonna stop supporting that foolish dictator Putin, and start supporting someone sensible that has values like Gorbachev?

54

just_passing_through 2014 Dec 22, 7:01am

Uh huh. Tell me about the new "Ministry of Truth" in the Ukraine.

I really don't care Mr. Lips. Maybe they are liars too maybe they aren't. I sure as shit know that Mr. Putin and his ilk are liars.

What is your fascination with the Russians anyway? I've got plenty of former Russian friends ( all in biotech ) and none of them are pro-Putin. They were warning me about him way back in 2004.

It's really too bad that "apparently" so many Russians are buying into the whole nationalist BS Putin is slinging. I mean. It all comes from the fact that they were (and still are but don't have to be) the backwater in Europe as they have been since the time before Catherine the Great. Why can't they just get their shit together and join in with the other Europeans? Too much water under the bridge?

I get Crimea sort of. It used to be part of Russia before the Soviets gave it to Ukraine. All of the other shit Putin has been doing over the past 6 years is BS. In fact, I don't think Crimea was handled well either.

55

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 22, 7:11am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11268298/Mikhail-Gorbachev-accuses-US-of-stoking-new-Cold-War.html

start supporting someone sensible that has values like Gorbachev?

Great.
"Gorbachev blames West for new Cold War"
http://time.com/3630352/mikhail-gorbachev-vladimir-putin-cold-war/

I've got plenty of former Russian friends ( all in biotech ) and none of them are pro-Putin. They were warning me about him way back in 2004.

There were plenty of people who hated FDR and insisted he was going to become a dictator every year from 33-45. 2004 is ten years ago. In that time, the standard of living has doubled, Russia's debt is entirely gone, and it sits on a pile of foreign reserves. As for democracy, Shushter and the Moscow Times and Navalny scream at Putin in Moscow like Fox News screams at Al Sharpton all day.

The US MSM lies their ass off too. Libyans wanting "Democracy", Yellowcake, Hussein had WMDs and could use them in 45 minutes, etc.

Why can't they just get their shit together and join in with the other Europeans? Too much water under the bridge?

I get Crimea sort of. It used to be part of Russia before the Soviets gave it to Ukraine. All of the other shit Putin has been doing over the past 6 years is BS. In fact, I don't think Crimea was handled well either.

So was Donbass. Both regions were undemocratically grafted into the Ukraine by the Communists, mostly to balance out the hicks in West Ukraine with industrial workers.

56

Strategist 2014 Dec 22, 7:16am

Strategist says

start supporting someone sensible that has values like Gorbachev?

Great.

"Gorbachev blames West for new Cold War"

He is not the same Gorbachev as in the 1980's. He is old and out of touch. I bet he can't even figure out how to use a cell phone. He might also think Pussy Riot is a cat named Riot.

57

just_passing_through 2014 Dec 22, 7:20am

Right, I've maybe met 50 or so since 2004 and every single one of them hates the fuck out of Putin. All cool people. Nobody wants to go back because it's still so fucked up over there. Incidentally my Indian co-workers don't want to go back to India even though they can live like kings at this point because there is still comparatively too much fucked up crap there too vs. the US.

So you are equating Putin with Sharpton. I keep hoping someone takes his ass out. He's got blood on his hands yet again as of this week! I don't watch FOX but mostly because I don't have cable. May I assume you're an MSNBC follower - I mean of your USA sources. They sure like Sharpton on that show.

Again, what is your fascination with Russia?

Donbass right... So you think it's OK for Russia to take that industrial region with the Ukraine needs ( especially due to their economic situation ) even though it was previously agreed that they would not in the 90s. And similarly Crimea.

58

lostand confused 2014 Dec 22, 9:04am

The chance of you being jailed in the USA is much higher than Rusia.
Also for a former communist country-they have way lower taxes than we do. here we are expected to share our wealth with 300# welfare folks and every family is under control of the gubmnt-with the gubmnt mandating down to the cent how much you have to pay your ex and children. On top of that in some states, your adult child can go to any college he/she wants and you have to pay for it-no questions asked.

Oh and the nSA spying makes the KGB look like amateurs. I think we have to take a long hard look at ourselves-before we go try and change the world.

59

Strategist 2014 Dec 22, 9:33am

The chance of you being jailed in the uSA is much higher than Rusiia.

That's because no one in Russia dares break the laws we take for granted in the US. Saudi is even worse. Just try taking of your garbage bag and showing your face.

Oh and the nSA spying makes the KGB look like amateurs.

I certainly hope so.

I think we have to take a long hard look at ourselves-before we go try and change the world.

We already did. Time to change the world.

60

lostand confused 2014 Dec 22, 9:58am

lostand confused says

The chance of you being jailed in the uSA is much higher than Rusiia.

That's because no one in Russia dares break the laws we take for granted in the US. Saudi is even worse. Just try taking of your garbage bag and showing your face.

lostand confused says

Oh and the nSA spying makes the KGB look like amateurs.

I certainly hope so.

lostand confused says

I think we have to take a long hard look at ourselves-before we go try and change the world.

We already did. Time to change the world.

This is how dictatorships start. When normal citizens take freedom for granted. I am beginning to wonder if freedom will end during my lifetime in this country-we are heading there faster and faster -with both parties complicit and with citizens cheering for an end to freedom.

61

just_passing_through 2014 Dec 22, 10:05am

The chance of you being jailed in the USA is much higher than Rusia.

Maybe true but we can cut that in half by decriminalizing weed. The chance of you being assassinated by the govt in Russia is much higher than it is here.

Also for a former communist country-they have way lower taxes than we do.

You might have liked to have been a fly on the wall at lunch with my Bulgarian manager, a Georgian co-worker and my peer from Moscow a few years ago. It was discussed that yeah, nobody pays taxes in that part of the world. Well, they do sort of toss a pittance at the govt so it looks like they paid something but everyone hides all transactions as much as possible. It's built into the culture. Barter as much as possible and lie about how much you made as much as possible.

Oh and the nSA spying makes the KGB look like amateurs.

I hope so!

I think we have to take a long hard look at ourselves-before we go try and change the world.

Honest self reflection is always a good thing.

62

just_passing_through 2014 Dec 22, 10:07am

This is how dictatorships start. When normal citizens take freedom for granted. I am beginning to wonder if freedom will end during my lifetime in this country-we are heading there faster and faster -with both parties complicit and with citizens cheering for an end to freedom.

Bizaroworld lately eh?

63

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 22, 10:16am

He is not the same Gorbachev as in the 1980's. He is old and out of touch. I bet he can't even figure out how to use a cell phone. He might also think Pussy Riot is a cat named Riot.

Nice backpedal.

You may be suffering from:
http://bit.ly/syl2Fc

Pussy Riot ain't shit vs. Fergusson, Snowden, or Manning.

What are we on now, the 5th cop a prosecutor has declined to prosecute or acted as a defense attorney for during a grand jury in so many weeks?

64

just_passing_through 2014 Dec 22, 10:20am

Pussy Riot ain't shit vs. Fergusson, Snowden, or Manning.

And because those ladies did it in Russia I'd say they've got more balls than all the balls in Fergusson + Snowdens. Manning has ( or plans to ) cut his off.

65

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 22, 10:21am

Right, I've maybe met 50 or so since 2004 and every single one of them hates the fuck out of Putin. All cool people. Nobody wants to go back because it's still so fucked up over there. Incidentally my Indian co-workers don't want to go back to India even though they can live like kings at this point because there is still comparatively too much fucked up crap there too vs. the US.

This is anecdotal evidence. It's nice that you mention it, but the fact is Russia is the #2 world destination for immigrants since 2009. At least earlier this year, the unemployment rate was 5.1% - just over what is considered "Full Employment".

66

just_passing_through 2014 Dec 22, 10:22am

This is anecdotal evidence.

True...

67

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 22, 10:26am

Donbass right... So you think it's OK for Russia to take that industrial region with the Ukraine needs ( especially due to their economic situation ) even though it was previously agreed that they would not in the 90s. And similarly Crimea.

Has nothing to do with need. It's that people who identify as Russians don't want to live in a country where Stepan Bandera, a Nazi Collaborator whose UPA killed god knows how many Russians, Poles, and Jews, is a "National Hero" also with Roman Shashtaiforgetovitch.

They want to live in a country where election results are respected.

Jesus, Yankuvytch was going to call early elections anyway in mere weeks, he agreed to this in an EU-brokered deal, but the coup plotters removed him anyway.

That ain't democracy.

They want to live in a country where a president isn't unconstitutionally removed for having police battle elements within the Maiden Protests that were violent and armed, but whose successors feel free to bomb and shell cities.

Basically, what happened in the Ukraine is the Donbass Democrats had their duly-elected, world-certified free and fair elected president deposed in a coup. Now, the coup government is cutting off their pensions, bombing them, etc. because they resist this.

Why do you support an anti-democratic coup?

For all love, Poroshenko gave a speech where he basically said the children of Donbass will have to live in basements.

There is not interest in any kind of compromise to restore democracy - there is a desire to have a frozen conflict, and gain in US bribe money to keep it going.

68

just_passing_through 2014 Dec 22, 10:36am

Why do you support an anti-democratic coup?

I'm not so certain that is/was the case. In fact, I'd guess that is not true. The deposed was pretty tight with Putin no? As I was told in 04 he ain't going anywhere and he sure hasn't. Are you going to tell me Russia has had democratic elections and that's how Putin has been able to cycle back through?

Assuming you're right though: Why are NATO European countries pushing back on Russia? Are you going to tell me that it's all due to the US strong arming them?

69

MisdemeanorRebel 2014 Dec 22, 10:42am