patrick.net

Dan8267 says

What is Progressivism and what are it's accomplishments

"Instead of calling themselves communists or socialists they call themselves liberals and progressives. This camouflage is very old. I never once heard my parents and their party friends refer to themselves as Communists. They were progressives – and registered Democrats."

And Fox News deliberately uses the terms liberal, left, progressive, communist, and socialist all the time to brainwash people like you and FortWayne. And as FortWayne demonstrates it works.

But that does not excuse the willful ignorance of conservatives in not learning these terms and the real American history. I could ask any fifth grader in any blue state what progressivism is and he would be able to answer it immediately and correctly. If adult conservatives cannot, they are idiots and thus their opinions don't matter.

One of the most unpatriotic things you can do is failed to learn American history. No amount of flag waving makes up for that. And conservatives still peddle the bullshit that the Civil War was fought for states rights and economic differences rather than slavery. That's how bad conservatives are at history, and that is why they suck at government. You cannot properly run a government if you are ignorant of history, especially your nation's history.

Pets are a liberal conspiracy? Does this mean that conservatives do not own pets, only attack animals.

georgeliberte says

Pets are a liberal conspiracy? Does this mean that conservatives do not own pets

They do, but they use them as sex slaves.

Dan8267 says

Now, let's get back to your 5th grade lesson. What did the Progressive movement accomplish? Don't Google it. You should be able to answer this question by yourself.

Still waiting...

Dan8267 says

P N Dr Lo R says

David Horowitz grew up in a family of communists

Completely irrelevant to what progressivism is or the the fact that FortWayne doesn't know the meaning of any of the things he complains about.

But hey, why don't you take a crack at it. What is Progressivism and what are it's accomplishments?

Still waiting for you as well.

Dan8267 says

What is Progressivism

Sounds familiar:

"The first of these features is their alienation from country: If you ask progressives about their patriotic feeling, they will tell you that they don’t think of themselves first as Americans but as “citizens of the world.” That even has a Harvard imprimatur. They are, in fact, so profoundly alienated from their country as to be in some sense foreigners to it. They are hostile to its history and to its core values, which they see as reflections of a society that has been guilty of racism and oppression on an epic scale. And they are fundamentally opposed to its constitutional arrangements which the framers specifically designed to thwart what they deemed “wicked projects” to redistribute income and share individual wealth"

So you don't even know what the single greatest social, political, and economic movement in American history is. That's just sad. And it's unpatriotic to be so ignorant of your country's history, especially the most important parts.

Dan8267 says

Gay marriage is a Constitutional right under the 14th Amendment just like interracial marriage is and for the exact same reasons.

It's not the same thing. Homosexuality is not covered by the 14h. You get equal protection under the law, you can't be a slave, but there is nothing that says homosexual marriage is fine and must be recognized by everyone.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Gay marriage is a Constitutional right under the 14th Amendment just like interracial marriage is and for the exact same reasons.

It's not the same thing. Homosexuality is not covered by the 14h. You get equal protection under the law, you can't be a slave, but there is nothing that says homosexual marriage is fine and must be recognized by everyone.

The 14th Amendment says nothing about interracial marriage, per se, but the case of Loving v. Virginia, decided by the Supreme Court in 1967, upheld that marriage is a human right available to all persons and cannot be denied by the state because doing so violates the 14th Amendment. The case dealt with interracial marriage, but the opinion of the court applies without modification to same-sex marriages.

So no, you are wrong. The very principle of the 14th Amendment and the Supreme Court decision in Loving v. Virginia demands marriage equality. The idea of taking away a human right like marriage from people simply because of what kind of genitalia they have is incompatible with the principles of our nation, particularly the freedom to pursue happiness and to have equal standing under law.

Marriage affects taxation. That alone mandates marriage equality. How can you possibly justify taxing same-sex couples more than opposing-sex couples? How can you justify denying the survival benefits rights of a soldier's widow simply because both the soldier and his or her spouse are the same gender? That's just unamerican.

Dan8267 says

The very principle of the 14th Amendment and the Supreme Court decision in Loving v. Virginia demands marriage equality.

Yes we all have an equal right to marry someone of opposite gender within certain "socially acceptable" parameters. Marriage is a society made up thing, it's an idea that society wants to promote, it's not a right. Hence society can determine what should be considered a "marriage".

FortWayne says

Yes we all have an equal right to marry someone of opposite gender

Why should I accept your assertions that we have a right to marry a partner of the opposing sex but not the same sex? You have said nothing to justify that statement. I have given several rock-solid reasons why this assertion is not true, none of which you or anyone else have refuted.

FortWayne says

Marriage is a society made up thing, it's an idea that society wants to promote, it's not a right.

According to our laws and the Supreme Court, marriage isn't just a right, it's a "fundamental human right". Since the Supreme Court ruled this, it's the law of the land whether you agree with it or not.

Furthermore, "society" does not promote things. Individuals do. Just because you want society to be structure one way doesn't mean everyone else does. Over half of Americans support same-sex marriages

Based on polling in 2015, a majority of Americans (55%) support same-sex marriage, compared with 39% who oppose it.

So if we're going by what "society" wants, you already lost.

You claimed that same-sex marriage was going to destroy our nation because society was entirely based on heterosexual marriage. Well it's been seven months since marriage equality became the law of the land and I haven't noticed even a slight change in day-to-day life and certainly no collapse of civilization like you predicted.

FortWayne says

Hence society can determine what should be considered a "marriage".

And our society has determined that same-sex marriages are marriages equal under law to opposing sex marriages.

Dan8267 says

Why should I accept your assertions that we have a right to marry a partner of the opposing sex but not the same sex? You have said nothing to justify that statement.

I guess the health reasons don't seem to matter, Dan ignores info that is inconvenient. Back to that selective hearing again champ?

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, "society" does not promote things. Individuals do. Just because you want society to be structure one way doesn't mean everyone else does

Liberal media promotes homosexuality, drugs, and stupid behavior quite often. Prop 8 in CA was passed by popular vote if you haven't noticed, you let people vote and all this liberal bullshit goes away very fast.

FortWayne says

I guess the health reasons don't seem to matter, Dan ignores info that is inconvenient. Back to that selective hearing again champ?

Marriage is bad for health? Yep, being able to file taxes jointly causes cancer.

You do realize that everybody has sex without getting married. Any health concerns you have -- which are bullshit anyway -- don't apply to the legal institution that is marriage. Are you really so fucking stupid to think that gay men are going to have any less sex because the state doesn't let them marry?

FortWayne says

Liberal media promotes homosexuality, drugs, and stupid behavior quite often.

1. There is nothing wrong with promoting homosexuality. It's not evil like Christianity is.
2. Liberals don't promote homosexuality. We promote civil rights for all including gays.
3. There is nothing wrong with promoting drugs. Have you seen a t.v. commercial in the past 40 years. Drugs are promoted all the time.
4. Promoting an end to the war on drugs and the legalization of pot isn't promoting drugs. It's opposing unjust laws that do harm but no good.
5. Anyone who thinks that Trump is qualified to have the nuclear codes does not get to talk about stupid behavior.

Dan8267 says

You do realize that everybody has sex without getting married. Any health concerns you have -- which are bullshit anyway

Its not bullshit, homosexuality leads to a lot of terrible STD's. It's a health hazard, not to mention it's purely retarded and shouldn't be acceptable.

Dan8267 says

1. There is nothing wrong with promoting homosexuality.

Everything is wrong with it.

Dan8267 says

2. Liberals don't promote homosexuality. We promote civil rights for all including gays.

Marriage is not a right, because you are not entitled to it.

Dan8267 says

3. There is nothing wrong with promoting drugs.

Everything is wrong with promoting drugs, once you grow past the rebelling teenage years you'll understand.

Dan8267 says

5. Anyone who thinks that Trump is qualified to have the nuclear codes does not get to talk about stupid behavior.

There is no such thing as "nuclear codes". One man can't make that decision, it's all a myth bud.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

1. There is nothing wrong with promoting homosexuality.

Everything is wrong with it.

Oh you expressed a bigoted opinion. We should all accept it as a fact.

FortWayne says

Marriage is not a right, because you are not entitled to it.

According to both the Supreme Court's interpretation of the 14th Amendment in Virginia V. Loving, yes it is. According to the recent Supreme Court decisions, yes gay marriage is too.

Whether or not you think it should be a right is another matter. I don't think practicing a religion should be a right.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

3. There is nothing wrong with promoting drugs.

Everything is wrong with promoting drugs, once you grow past the rebelling teenage years you'll understand.

You do realize that pharmaceutical is just a fancy marketing term for drugs, right?

www.youtube.com/embed/KDarqCVXUoQ

There is nothing special about illegal drugs other than that they are illegal, mostly for political reasons. Legal drugs are just as dangerous and often more. People die from these marketed drugs. People don't die from pot.

FortWayne says

There is no such thing as "nuclear codes". One man can't make that decision, it's all a myth bud.

No. It takes two. The president and his Secretary of Defense, which he appoints. Wow, I feel so much safer with Trump having that power and being commander in chief of the armed forces.

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

1. There is nothing wrong with promoting homosexuality.

Everything is wrong with it.

Oh you expressed a bigoted opinion. We should all accept it as a fact.

Your opinion is bigoted because you and your homosexual friends are anti-human.

Dan8267 says

No. It takes two. The president and his Secretary of Defense, which he appoints. Wow, I feel so much safer with Trump having that power and being commander in chief of the armed forces.

It takes a lot more than that to launch a missile. But you can believe what you want to believe, not like you'll ever run for president anyway.

Dan8267 says

Whether or not you think it should be a right is another matter. I don't think practicing a religion should be a right.

But freedom of religion is in the constitution, homosexuality is not. Maybe you just live in a wrong country Dan, because you constantly want to live in a country with a completely different constitution where religion is banned, homosexuality is promoted, big government is running amok... you really should try a different country. You might be happier there.

Dan8267 says

the single greatest social, political, and economic movement in American history is

That's right, Teddy Roosevelt and the Trust Busters, Upton Sinclair and The Jungle, the Suffragettes, an eight hour day, end of child labor--all honorable pursuits. The communists of the 30's, David Horowitz's parents and their associates, adopted the name "Progressives" to disguise their purpose which was world domination by the Soviet Union and it remains so today even though the system has been thorougly discredited. The malignant ideas that animated it still live on in those whom I call "Little Soviets" as they are the incarnation of that evil empire, especially its virulent denial of God.

FortWayne says

You might be happier there

Don't count on it. Those countries thrive on the sins of envy and resentment and class hatred, which don't make for happiness in anyone.

FortWayne says

Your opinion is bigoted because you and your homosexual friends are anti-human.

Yeah, nothing bigoted or anti-human about the above statement.

To all the people defending Christianity, how do you reconcile that with the example of FortWayne? Why should we tolerate religion when the religious try to use state-sponsored violence to enforce their bigoted and vile vision of the world upon others?

FortWayne says

But freedom of religion is in the constitution, homosexuality is not.

We could always amend the Constitution to revoke the protection of religion. In any case, the Constitution does not have to mention homosexuality. It does not mention heterosexual marriage, but the case of Loving V. Virginia stated unequivocally that all laws prohibiting a white man and a black woman from marrying each other were unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment. You have not and cannot address this fact.

P N Dr Lo R says

The communists of the 30's, David Horowitz's parents and their associates, adopted the name "Progressives" to disguise their purpose which was world domination by the Soviet Union and it remains so today even though the system has been thorougly discredited.

No sane person today thinks progressivism has anything to do with communism or the Soviet Union. The meaning of progressivism and the progressive movement is taught in every fifth grade history class. If you are confused, that's on you.

David Horowitz is just another asshole Trotskyite who shifted from one ridiculous ideology to another.

Trotskyites have given the West almost a century of assholery, they have all become either Neocons or SJW Identitarians.

As a Jew I can say that Jewish Trotskyites are particularly embarrassing. Please keep in mind they are a fraction of 1%, however.

Dan8267 says

We could always amend the Constitution to revoke the protection of religion. In any case, the Constitution does not have to mention homosexuality. It does not mention heterosexual marriage, but the case of Loving V. Virginia stated unequivocally that all laws prohibiting a white man and a black woman from marrying each other were unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment. You have not and cannot address this fact.

Loving V. Virginia is not the same thing as two dudes getting married. With your reasoning of anyone can do anything you can justify a 13 year old marrying a 65 year old. It's not acceptable in this society simply.

And about amending constitution to remove religious protection, good luck with that one Dan, you are in a wrong country. Try North Korea, it's everything you love, other than the gay and drugs thing.

Dan8267 says

The meaning of progressivism and the progressive movement is taught in every fifth grade history class. If you are confused, that's on you.

The only thing you people talk about is equality of outcomes and government deciding on who is the special one, regardless of once ability. That's not progressive, that's just naive child like mentality, not even new, just childish and as old as human race.

FortWayne says

he only thing you people talk about is equality of outcomes

What smart people want is equality in opportunities. Republicans want opportunities dictated by family wealth.

FortWayne says

Loving v. Virginia is not the same thing as two dudes getting married.

No two things are identical, but the principle that the court stated is the same. The state has no right to deny people equality under the law.

Cornell Law Department opinion of the Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia.

Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment provides:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

These statutes also deprive the Lovings of liberty without due process of law in violation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival. Skinner v. Oklahoma, 316 U.S. 535, 541 (1942). See also Maynard v. Hill, 125 U.S. 190 (1888). To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual, and cannot be infringed by the State.

These convictions must be reversed.

It is so ordered.

Replace the word "racial " with the word "gender" and no principle or logic is changed.

tatupu70 says

What smart people want is equality in opportunities. Republicans want opportunities dictated by family wealth.

What liberals want is equality of outcomes, it's where all the constant pandering comes out from based on faulty statistics about race, gender, or whatever other bullshit they can think of. And if you are a white male or asian, somehow they pretend that you can never be poor or down on your luck, government only cares about you if you are black or single mother of a "minority".

Dan, the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State. Without normal families society falls apart and relies on cheap labor from overseas and immigration to keep itself going, losing it's culture and it's identity, eventually falling apart as a nation when too few care for better outcomes.

Homosexuality or promiscuity is not a "fundamental group unit of society", no one cares to protect or support irresponsible and stupid behavior. It's that simple.

FortWayne says

What liberals want is equality of outcomes

I'm the hardest core liberal you'll ever met. I do not want equality of outcomes. I want equality of the playing field. How do you reconcile your Bizzaro World view of liberals with the living breath example contradicting that view right now?

FortWayne says

Dan, the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

1. Gay Couples are a family and they are successfully raising children. See exhibit A.

2. There is nothing about same-sex marriage that even remotely threatens opposing-sex marriage. How exactly do you think two men who have been lovers for 40 years getting married is going to damage your marriage?

No one has ever called for the state to arrest heterosexual married couples. The argument that legally recognized same-sex marriages is an attack on opposite-sex marriage is as ridiculous and bigoted as the argument that legally recognized interracial marriages are an attack on same-race marriages.

FortWayne says

Homosexuality or promiscuity is not a "fundamental group unit of society", no one cares to protect or support irresponsible and stupid behavior. It's that simple.

Any real American cares about equality under law. That principle is the foundation of our society. Without it, we would have been better under British rule.

Way for you to piss on the graves of every soldier who died protecting the Constitution including the 14th Amendment.

FortWayne says

What liberals want is equality of outcomes, it's where all the constant pandering comes out from based on faulty statistics about race, gender, or whatever other bullshit they can think of. And if you are a white male or asian, somehow they pretend that you can never be poor or down on your luck, government only cares about you if you are black or single mother of a "minority".

Wow, it's amazing that you know what liberals want better than they do. How did you come by this amazing ability??

That's a really bad exhibit Dan, had to borrow from a TV show huh? In reality it looks very different.

FortWayne says

Who talks about equality all the time, and complains that wealthy have more? Democrats.

Who has all the feminists screaming that outcomes are not equal and equal salaries are required? Democrats.

Need more?

These are big points, esp. the 2nd one. We all know that administrations (and governments in general) are corrupt on both sides, always have been to some extent and will be (seems it has gotten worse but who knows), but the 2nd point is basically about codifying corruption and abolishing the meritocracy. Much worse than positive, i.e. crony corruption which is already bad enough by itself.

FortWayne says

That's a really bad exhibit Dan, had to borrow from a TV show huh? In reality it looks very different.

Jesus Fucking Christ, you're an idiot. That's not a TV show. That's the actor Neil Patrick Harris with his real life husband and their two real life adopted children.

So honey, it is fucking reality. What you just demonstrated is that your perverted sense of reality looks very different from actual reality.

Here are a few dozen more real life pictures of the Harris family that you can pretend are from a sitcom, you bigoted moron.

Yes, this is reality.

Not a promo picture.

Look how much gay marriage has fucked up children. This kid is miserable and would be much happier as a parentless ward of the state.

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Real people don't love like this. It has to be staged like the moon landing.

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Gays, destroying the family unit.

Fort Wayne, you are the biggest asshole in the world.

OK, I'll admit that this one is a bit gay.

Most awesome picture.

mell says

FortWayne says

Who talks about equality all the time, and complains that wealthy have more? Democrats.


Who has all the feminists screaming that outcomes are not equal and equal salaries are required? Democrats.

Need more?

These are big points, esp. the 2nd one.

Except it's bullshit. It's amazing that conservatives have to lie to make any points. Is your platform and your policies that bad that you cannot simply state them? Instead you have to lie and misrepresent what the other guys want?

FortWayne says

And Dan still obsessed with an actor who is on television all day long, trying hard to ignore that reality for most Americans does not involve glamor and polished image of hollywood actors.

The example is a well-documented one because Harris is an actor. If I showed you 500 examples of non-famous people it would not persuade you anyway. Plus I'd have to break into 500 Shutterfly accounts.

But what does Harris being an actor have to do with those personal family pictures? They aren't part of a TV show and Harris's spouse and children are not actors. So you're pulling bullshit out of your ass.

The fact is that this gay couple has a better relationship with their children then you have with your son. And maybe that's why your so jealous. But honey, that's one you. You have no one but yourself to blame for you poor relationship with your son. If you made the effort to reconcile with him then you'd have a better relationship, but your stupid pride won't let you. Don't go blaming gays for that.

Here's some ordinary gay families who are also happy, healthy, and wonderful. Not that any of this will matter to a bigot like you.

No, it's equal pay regardless of who works harder or better. Warming chair = working hard. 2 people can do same job different, but must be paid same. Welcome to communism where they pull you down instead of letting you achieve

tatupu70 says

Except that's a completely bogus argument even if you agree. The argument is equal pay for equal work. Not equal pay for everyone regardless of what they do.