patrick.net

Is Trump President yet?

Ironman says

BTW, did you mail in YOUR check for the $116K that YOU owe yet?

Hey, it's $166K per taxpayer. How come he gets a discount?

never start a discussion with a WaPo link if u want it taken seriously

"never start a discussion with a WaPo link if u want it taken seriously"

In this case, it's an editorial written by Bernie Sanders. It has nothing to do with WaPo other than he published his editorial on their pages.

"Trickle down works. If it did not, garbage collectors in the US would be making the same as garbage collectors in Sudan"

This is so ridiculous, it's hard to believe anyone could have written it--well, other than sarcastically like AF.

Here is why garbage collectors have good wages in the US:

https://teamster.org/divisions/solid-waste-and-recycling

joeyjojojunior says

This is so ridiculous, it's hard to believe anyone could have written it--well, other than sarcastically like AF.

Here is why garbage collectors have good wages in the US:

https://teamster.org/divisions/solid-waste-and-recycling

It does not say why garbage collectors have good wages in the US. Why don't you tell me why Sudan does not have high wages for garbage collectors?

"Why don't you tell me why Sudan does not have high wages for garbage collectors?"

Huh? Do you really want an essay on all the problems with the Sudan?

joeyjojojunior says

"Why don't you tell me why Sudan does not have high wages for garbage collectors?"

Huh? Do you really want an essay on all the problems with the Sudan?

The country has no money. Therefore there is less to go around. Therefore garbage collectors make peanuts as compared to the US.
It's called trickle down.
See, you learnt something today.

"The country has no money. Therefore there is less to go around. Therefore garbage collectors make peanuts as compared to the US.
It's called trickle down. See, you learnt something today"

You don't even understand what trickle down is, much less the issues with the Sudan.

There are a shit ton of reasons that we have a better economy than the Sudan, and garbage collectors make more here than there. You might pick a country with a more similar history of democratic governance, like say any Western European country with higher taxes than the US and see if your argument still holds. When tax rates are too high, cutting them works well. When taxes are already too low, cutting them might goose the economy a bit, but the drawbacks are greater than the benefits.

YesYNot says

There are a shit ton of reasons that we have a better economy than the Sudan, and garbage collectors make more here than there.

And the shit ton of reasons are:
Democracy
Capitalism
Secularism

"Carrier didn't want to be the subject of the bully pulpit any longer and caved in for an outline of future reform for face saving purposes"

And the money, of course. You forgot about the millions of $$

joeyjojojunior says

And the money, of course. You forgot about the millions of $$

From Indiana, if Carrier leaves they get 0 in State Income Tax, 0 in local Property Taxes, 0 in all kinds of fees and other taxes.

BTW, many Dem states let Companies keep the employee portion of the state income tax. Not a typo.

But more and more of those tax dollars aren’t funding services; they aren’t even getting to the state capital. Sixteen states now allow corporations to withhold state income taxes from employees and keep the money as an incentive to locate to or remain in a state. That means that, in effect, employees pay personal income tax to their company rather than their state government. (The 16 states are: Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, South Carolina, and Utah.)

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2012/0517/Your-employer-may-be-pocketing-your-state-income-tax

BOLD indicates Democratic Legislature control where they have the power of the purse. Note there are only 13 Dem Legislatures in the country right now.

More:

In Illinois, the EDGE program offers a special tax incentive that can divert up to 100 percent of withheld taxes into subsidies to encourage companies to locate or expand operations in Illinois when the companies are actively considering a competing location in another state.

New Jersey’s Business Employment Incentive Program (BEIP) is among the most costly of these programs, with new grants totaling more than $73 million. Ohio and Kentucky top the list of states for the number of companies they subsidize through employee personal income tax withholding.

Pots are really calling Kettles black.

Strategist says

And the shit ton of reasons are:

Democracy

Capitalism

Secularism

Those are 3 big ones. There are other things, like our immigration policies and education system, which provided a big boost after WWII. But a stable democracy with capitalism is not synonymous with trickle down economics. Secularism is linked more closely to communist regimes, although there is nothing innate about that.

But picking out some shithole and saying that our poor people are better off than their poor people is not a good argument for trickle down economics. Look at a country like Germany, and you will see why. It's not just Germany, there are plenty of other examples.

I thought Trump was different though?? He was the one that was going to stick it to the corporations that tried to move jobs.

So, you're saying he's no different than all the other politicians?

YesYNot says

immigration policies and education system, which provided a big boost after WWII.

You mean only the latter. The Foreign Born population in the US was the lowest in past 100 years between 1940-70, half or less of what it is today. Unsurprisingly, the time of greatest economic expansion for the bottom half of the population.

Ironman says

joeyjojojunior says

And the money, of course. You forgot about the millions of $$

Exactly.. the millions of payroll dollars those 1000 employees will be spending IN Indiana, not to mention the millions Carrier will inject into the state economy.

You're finally learning.

The $7 million tax break that Carrier gets is over 10 years. It's peanuts for a multi billion company.
The benefits of keeping 1000 jobs in Indiana are a lot lot more to Indiana over 10 years.
It's clearly a net benefit.

joeyjojojunior says

I thought Trump was different though?? He was the one that was going to stick it to the corporations that tried to move jobs.

You realize he isn't President yet, right?

Ironman says

Only the people who understand economics and math will get that. A few people on this thread are utterly clueless to those points.

ha ha. I feel sorry for them.

"You realize he isn't President yet, right?"

So, what leverage did he not have as President elect that he will have when inaugurated? You think he would have been able to negotiate a better deal at the end of January?

And, if that's the case, why didn't he wait until then to make the deal?

"Only the people who understand economics and math will get that. A few people on this thread are utterly clueless to those points."

Except for the precedent that it sets. Now every company can come to Trump saying they are going to move x number of jobs to Mexico unless he gives them $millions in tax breaks just like he gave United Technologies. That's why Bernie had an actual plan with penalties and leverage. Instead of just giving away taxpayer's money.

joeyjojojunior says

"You realize he isn't President yet, right?"

So, what leverage did he not have as President elect that he will have when inaugurated? You think he would have been able to negotiate a better deal at the end of January?

And, if that's the case, why didn't he wait until then to make the deal?

As President, Trump will make it harder for companies to leave. He can't do that right now.

"As President, Trump will make it harder for companies to leave. He can't do that right now."

Yeah, I got that memo. My question was how? What can he threaten them with on January 21st that he couldn't threaten them with today? I'm pretty sure that they all know that he will be President in a month so nobody questions it.

Thunderlips is Tovbot2 says

he Foreign Born population in the US was the lowest in past 100 years between 1940-70, half or less of what it is today. Unsurprisingly, the time of greatest economic expansion for the bottom half of the population.

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/august/german-jewish-inventors-081114.html

U.S. patents increased by 31 percent in fields common among Jewish scientists who fled Nazi Germany for America, according to Stanford economist Petra Moser. Their innovative influence rippled outward for generations, as the émigrés attracted new researchers who then trained other up-and-comers.

It's not quantity of immigrants that is important. It is being viewed as a relatively attractive place for a particular type of person. We have a lot of immigrants picking vegetables. That's never going to boost long term productivity. It's just a way to boost profits for farming corps. A top tier education system with well funded research, tolerance for minorities, and respect for science help cultivate what we want.

YesYNot says

A top tier education system with well funded research, tolerance for minorities, and respect for science

This sounds a bit too much like "political correctness."

marcus says

This sounds a bit too much like "political correctness."

Good. There's a reason some things are politically correct, and some things are not :).

Thunderlips is Tovbot2 says

The Foreign Born population in the US was the lowest in past 100 years between 1940-70, half or less of what it is today. Unsurprisingly, the time of greatest economic expansion for the bottom half of the population.

Perhaps just a correlation?

But I agree that some immigration polices are not good, e.g. the green card lottery. Also the way the standards for some categories are applied are laughable. For example, I know quite a lot of postdocs who got green cards under the outstanding scientist category. Some of them quite average even as far as postdocs go.

I predict that Trump will make a deal with sanders to form a coalition to pass anti-offshoring legislation. I wouldn't be surprised to find more democrats than republicans in it, but a consummate deal-maker like Trump isn't going to pass up a tailor-made ally for his agenda, and despite his fiery rhetoric, Bernie is exactly that ally. He may have been corrupted a bit by association with Hillary and her cabal, but he still has a bully stick of lots of supporters, and an agenda. I look forward to an amalgam of policies formed between the Trump and Sanders coalitions.
I always have.