patrick.net

NuttBoxer says

Dan8267 says

He did however kill many Americans in order to let slavers continue to own, beat, murder, and rape slaves including children.

Dan, you've already been owned on this point by many direct quotes, and historical data. Your false beliefs matter little in the face of truth. You should spend less time attempting to re-write three month old threads, and more time reading what people who RESEARCHED this topic have written.

Think about this. If I'm right, then you have been suckered into one of the biggest government propaganda efforts in this countries history. I don't think your ego could take the hit, so continue burying your head on this one.

As much as I disagree with Dan, this is one of the few times he is right.

Rew says

Pay attention to this phrase ... "... defended the rights of his people in meetings in Vincennes with William Henry Harrison, Governor of the Indiana Territory."

A very American ideal? No? An honorable voice of civic opposition and further a warrior that we look to as a symbol of fighting against the oppression of a people. He has many Warships named after him. Interesting, no? He is seen was upholding American ideals relevant to the communities and things that bear his name and image.

Rew, do you know jack shit about the War of 1812? And his battles with US Forces?

Tippecanoe? and Tyler Too? That at least one US President got to the White House largely on their record of fighting his forces?

He fought the US Government, with violence, leading an armed force, and received aid for the main enemy of the US in that war, the United Kingdom.

So did General Lee (well, the UK almost sent him aid, but a well-timed friendly visit from the Russian Baltic Fleet scared off the UK and France from helping the CSA).

If Lee comes down, so should Tecumseh, if you go by the Armed Insurgent against the USA rationale, no?

If the White Male Southern Rebel comes down, so does the Native American Male Rebel. It's a way of signalling unity, anything less is "Picking and Choosing", seemingly about Skin Color.

As for Margaret Sanger, she spent much of her time pushing for mandatory involuntary sterilization, and pseudoscience like anthropometry (somebody is a criminal because their brow shape is a certain way, or their ears abnormally large or whatever). She was incredibly influential in the Government involuntarily sterilizing people, most of whom were poor whites and blacks. Her close associates included Lothrop Stoddard, who praised the Third Reich's eugenics policies, and ABCL (later merging into Planned Parenthood) Dr. Laughin who said "bad strains" had to be purified from America, including the "shiftless, ignorant, and worthless class of antisocial whites of the South."

In 30 States, Margaret Sanger and her cronies got involuntary Eugenics laws passed in 30 states. Most "Coastal Elites" of the time loved Eugenics and thought opposition to it (correctly) mostly came from Religious Fanatics and those who would destroy the country over excessive adherence to annoyances like Civil Liberties.

"Freeze Peach" "No right to hate Speech" "Three Generations of Idiots Imbiciles is enough"

Nevermind the idiot was an ace student who married and entered the middle class from bone-grinding poverty, only to find she was infertile after she got married.

Some victims didn't even know they were sterilized until they unsuccessfully attempted to have children and saw a doctor; they sterilized girls as young as 11.

Hamilton star open to removal of Jefferson and Washington statues. That was quick. What is next renaming Washington D.C and Washington state-liberals have reached the edge of craziness.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/08/17/hamilton-star-leslie-odom-jr-open-taking-statues-washington-jefferson/

Liberals taking advantage of the Mentally ill.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

As for Margaret Sanger, she spent much of her time pushing for mandatory involuntary sterilization, and pseudoscience like anthropometry (somebody is a criminal because their brow shape is a certain way, or their ears abnormally large or whatever). She was incredibly influential in the Government involuntarily sterilizing people, most of whom were poor whites and blacks. Her close associates included Lothrop Stoddard, who praised the Third Reich's eugenics policies, and ABCL (later merging into Planned Parenthood) Dr. Laughin who said "bad strains" had to be purified from America, including the "shiftless, ignorant, and worthless class of antisocial whites of the South."

In 30 States, Margaret Sanger and her cronies got involuntary Eugenics laws passed in 30 states. Most "Coastal Elites" of the time loved Eugenics and thought opposition to it (correctly) mostly came from Religious Fanatics and those who would destroy the country over excessive adherenc...

Well you've managed to bring ignorance of the subject to an art form. Clearly you know nothing about Sanger other than some crap you read on some blog or a wiki post. Don't let the facts like compulsory sterilization laws were passed between 1907 and 1915 while Stanger didn't even address eugenics until after WWI when she joined the Birth Control Review enter into your world. She either was in school, a suburban housewife or a nurse on the east side when most of the laws were passed. She spent very little time pushing for involuntary sterilization. It was a small part of her career. Eugenics was a concept supported by many very prominent people, as well as a big part of the general population, at the time. You do know Sanger was highly praised by Martin Luther King for her work in the black community don't you?

Should her statue come down because of writing in support of a popular concept at that time in history as a small part of her career? Maybe. . Should it happen because you and the right wingnuts in congress are desperately casting around to prove somehow Sanger writings are morally equivalent to taking up arms and actively going to war to further the institution of slavery in the last place in the civilized world slavery was practised. Look she is just as bad because we say so. I don't think so.

I have a copy of Kennedy's biography Birth Control in America: The Career of Margaret Sanger on my bookshelf. If you ever want to actually know what you are talking about then pick up a copy. But why would you want that?

Curiosity overwhelms me. Why is it that right wingnuts have so much trouble with proportion. Breitbart just makes a bunch of shit up it's a minor editing error. CNN misplaces a comma and it's a major fake news conspiracy. Going to war, killing and maiming millions of people, destroying billions of dollars in property to keep millions of people enslaved is pretty much the same as writing in favour of eugenics. Interesting phenomena. Is it something you are born with or did you take some kind of special training?

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Here's your chemical sprays. I see a fat guy who seems to fit a white supremacist, and a black guy who I have a feeling isn't a White Supremacist.

Those 2 opposites aren't fighting, they are working together like brothers, trying to swat away some mosquitos.

Rural whites: Those liberals in the cities should stop telling us how to live in our states.
Rural whites: Those liberals in the cities better not take down the statutes in their cities.

YesYNot says

Rural whites: Those liberals in the cities should stop telling us how to live in our states.

Rural whites: Those liberals in the cities better not take down the statutes in their cities.

More and more these statues and monuments are being torn down because cities are afraid of being seen as racists. Over the decades Washington and Jefferson statues will be torn down too. If that's what the future generations want, that's what the future generations will get.

Strategist says

Over the decades Washington and Jefferson statues will be torn down too.

The only reason we are even talking about that is because Gingrich said it on Fox news, and Trump repeated it in his outburst. Now, it's on the table. The right is arguing that Washington and Jefferson are to Lee. Crazy. You may or may not be right that the left will eventually want that, but it's clear why we are talking about it today.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

It's important to banish ignorance

Strategist says

Your false beliefs matter little in the face of truth.

G.W. Bush & Republicans killed American servicemen & innocent women & children based on the LIE of WMD.
Now many are less ignorant than before & no longer have to believe Republican LIES,which are not false beliefs but simple LIES. Retard Republicans believe anything they are told?

Trolling with facts is fun & Republicans have nothing.
Nothing after they are all boycotted.

Strategist says

cities are afraid of being seen as racists.

I think you mean that politicians are afraid of being seen as racists.

This speech explains exactly why the statues are coming down. I think it's very arrogant to assume that Landrieu thinks that the statues should remain, but he's afraid of being seen as a racist, so he comes up with this. Not everybody who agrees with 'liberal' politically correct ideals is virtue signaling or afraid of being judged. Some people just think this is the right thing to do.

www.youtube.com/embed/csMbjG0-6Ak

NuttBoxer says

Dan8267 says

He did however kill many Americans in order to let slavers continue to own, beat, murder, and rape slaves including children.

Dan, you've already been owned on this point by many direct quotes, and historical data. Your false beliefs matter little in the face of truth. You should spend less time attempting to re-write three month old threads, and more time reading what people who RESEARCHED this topic have written.

I'll call your bluff. Show me the evidence the American slavers did not beat, murder, or rape their slaves including children. Show citations.

NuttBoxer says

Think about this. If I'm right, then you have been suckered into one of the biggest government propaganda efforts in this countries history. I don't think your ego could take the hit, so continue burying your head on this one.

The government is incentivized to whitewash it's history, not to bring attentions to state-sponsored and state-protected atrocities.

bob2356 says

Don't let the facts like compulsory sterilization laws were passed between 1907 and 1915 while Stanger didn't even address eugenics until after WWI when she joined the Birth Control Review enter into your world.

MUHAHAHAH

Compulsary Sterilization laws were passed state by state continuously throughout the first chunk of the 21st Century.

Sanger wrote multiple pieces praising Eugenics after WW1:

Seemingly every new approach to the great problem of the human race must manifest its vitality by running the gauntlet of prejudice, ridicule and misinterpretation. Eugenists may remember that not many years ago this program for race regeneration was subjected to the cruel ridicule of stupidity and ignorance. Today Eugenics is suggested by the most diverse minds as the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems. The most intransigent and daring teachers and scientists have lent their support to this great biological interpretation of the human race. The war has emphasized its necessity

Heh. Notice the Triumph of the Will style glorification of Physical Fitness. "Great Racial Diseases" appears later in the Text.

That's just the first paragraph. "Eugenics - All the Smart People Support it, WW1 proved it was necessary, Subjected to ridicule of the stupid and ignorant".

Racial Health, "Great Racial Diseases", "Great Race" all the marks of a Racist Eugenicist is in there. There's even a tally of Non-Whites to scare her listeners in one of her speeches.

Yes, Coastal Elite Smarties CAN fall for horrific Pseudoscience and Fads AND call those who oppose them ignorant. "Daring Teachers and Scientists" are not immune, history has shown.

The rest can be found here:
http://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/

From the Sanger Project, at that irresponsible, unhinged tinfoil website maintained by NYU.

Here's some more bits, c'mon feel the Social Darwinism.

↑1↓ In the great movement of Social reform of the 19th century, it has been concerned with the conditions of life, and not with the quality of life itself. The expectations of this movement have not been fulfilled and its result is that it has increased the burden it was intended to remove.

Bad conditions kill off the unfit, leaving room and space for the fit to survive.

↑2↓ In the desire to protect the unfit from nature’s cruel consequences and to render the fit fitter, we have cast a burden upon the fit, which has rendered him unequal to the task. In allowing the unfit to reproduce their kind we are doing our best to lower the level of life.

The way lies open to the next great step in social regeneration (reform) which is the deliberate control of life itself.

The new social feeling which has been generated by the task of improving the conditions of life and of caring for those who are unable to care for themselves, has made possible a new conception of our responsibility to the race. We are not only our brother’s keeper, We are the keepers of our children and of the children of the race that are to come after us. Our sense of social responsibility has become a sense of racial responsibility and from this we may build upon the task of regenerating the race.

This isn't a call for Condoms. It's about society allowing the ufit to reproduce, those imbiciles, idiots, and sufferers of racial disease.

Her frightening Conclusion:

The next step will be the effort to breed for those qualities in human beings that are basic principles in any civilization. We may not know yet how to breed for the highest qualities inhuman beings, but certainly we do know how to breed out detrimental qualities, which science tells us are inheritable and transmissible. We can begin with the most obvious and say children should not be born when either parent has a transmissible disease of any kind. To adhere to this single principle alone for one generation would do more to wipe out criminality, prostitution and disease, than all the combined palliative efforts directed by church and state. This could be done by a vigorous educational campaign and a request to those who have such taint to present themselves for consultation. There could then be commissions of authorities to investigate the case and advise according to circumstances either sterilization of methods of contraception.

In case of refusal such persons should have a choice of sterilization or isolation. Under no circumstances should the state allow such parents to cast their diseased and demented progeny upon society for the normal and fit to provide for.

When she says Birth Control or Contraception, she doesn't mean just educated people buying condoms, but people being forced by government authorities to get sterilized.

It happened all over America, including Puerto Rico where a third of women were found to be sterilized under a 1937 Law - passed well after WW1 and just before WW2.

See also:
LEBENSBORN

Some 8,000 children were born in Germany and around 12,000 in Norway as part of Lebensborn, formed by SS leader Heinrich Himmler to encourage women of “pure blood” to bear blond, blue-eyed children.

Seriously there is so much in Sangers writings I can spend all day posting in-context quotes about Racial Health and Mandatory Sterilization.

.bob2356 says

t. Don't let the facts like compulsory sterilization laws were passed between 1907 and 1915

I mentioned Puerto Rico's sterilization law of 1937. But there were plenty of States, encouraged by Eugenicists like Margaret Sanger, passing involuntary sterlization laws after WW1.

Thousands of people were sterilized in California, and the peak period was the 20s and 30s. Virginia imitated California with Sterilization Laws in 1924. This is well after WW1, Bob.

As a college Freshman, I attended a lecture and later read a book by Steven Jay Gould on this very topic; it's really a hidden part of US history, and many of the victims were Rural Whites whom Sanger and others loathed as Unfit. They were the biggest danger because Poor Rural White Women might pollute the racial strain of Whites in a way the Niggers and Chinks could not.

In 1927, Buck vs. Bell, that SCOTUS recognized the Constitutionality of sterilizing the Handicapped. Oliver Wendell Holmes writing the decision:
"It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind."

Carrie Buck was a poor white teen from... Charlotesville, VA - and as I mentioned before, was no idiot but an ace student, yet diagnosed as "Feebleminded" by authorities. She later rose into the middle class. Looks like the back-patting Coastie Elites who understand everything and fight ignorance made a big mistake again.

People like Sanger got 30 States as well as US Territories to implement these laws. The 1910s-1950s were her peak years.

Do you think there should be taxpayer-funded memorials to this Eugencist? Do condoms outweigh the support of forcible sterilization of tens of thousands of people, many of whom were merely poor and not at all disabled? Her Racial Purity aspect?

Many believe General Lee's personal non-ownership of Slaves AND his aggressive campaigning for National Reconciliation don't mitigate his role as a Confederate Rebel General.

If so, Margaret Sanger's aggressive promotion of involuntary birth control for the "unfit" and obsession with Race Health, surely outweighs her promotion of voluntary birth control for the "Better People".

BTW I agree with sterilization for repeat Welfare bastard factories and repeat vio/lent felons as a requirement to recieve aid and as punishment for crimes You don't have an inexhaustible right to burden Society with endless children you can't care for, nor do we need violent assholes siring or birthing children.

You realized that at least one of the spikes in increased monument building might also correlate to when Civil War veterans started dying off en mass.
I wonder what a similar chart for Union monuments would show.

There's a great few sentences in Sanger re: Hypergamy, the wisdom of letting young women chosing "hawt guys" to sleep with, but not the other way around. Unfortunately I lost it when I cut and pasted something else after I cut it out for being superfluous.

jazz_music says

You know what?

If you have a town that owns a statue and a park, you can have a vote in that town and pretty much replace it or rename it to whatever is agreed upon by voting.

This is really nobody else' business. It is that simple!.

BOOM!

Yes - vote on it.

Don't allow crazy left-wing mobs to unilaterally tear shit down when their passions are all whipped up.

Down with all icons! Cannibal anarchy!

HEY YOU says

G.W. Bush & Republicans killed American servicemen & innocent women & children based on the LIE of WMD.

Perhaps monuments to Bush have to come down as well.

jazz_music says

Well? Didn't they vote on it?

Who - the members of the extremist pro-North Korean Communist "World Workers Party" that tore down Confederate Soldiers memorial in Durham this week?
http://abc11.com/politics/who-are-the-workers-world-party-and-why-durham/2314577/

jazz_music says

You know what?

If you have a town that owns a statue and a park, you can have a vote in that town and pretty much replace it or rename it to whatever is agreed upon by voting.

This is really nobody else' business. It is that simple!.

BOOM!

I disagree. Majority rule does not overrule minority rights.

For example, a town votes to erect a statue showing Jews being gassed with the caption "the only good Jew is a dead Jew". One could easily take that as a threat. Glorifying slavers and confederates is another way to threaten the rights and well being of the descendants of slaves. It promotes a culture of oppression, which materially affects those descendants even till this day.

Put simply, majority rule does not justify state sponsorship of different classes of citizens or any kind of attacks on people including attacks on the civil rights and equality under law of citizens.

How many time did W. & J. commit the traitorous & treasonous act of succession?

Rew says

What does it represent as a public symbol? I

Just who decides what it represents?

Makes you think: after 8 years with the first black president, why all of the sudden must we remove all Confederate statues because of slavery? Why did Obama not champion this idea when he was in office?

zzyzzx says

Why did Obama not champion this idea when he was in office?

Perhaps because he is a reasonably intelligent person.

On a side note, the removal of confederacy statues while preserving just as vile or even worse conquistador ones is a logical continuation of idiocy that has been around for a while. It all started perhaps with Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Fin book bans in schools.

https://www.csmonitor.com/Books/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0105/Huck-Finn-Controversy-over-removing-the-N-word-from-Mark-Twain-novel

Huck Finn ('Adventures of Huckleberry Finn') is the fourth most banned book in the US. A controversial new edition would replace 219 references to the 'N-word' with 'slave.' Historical accuracy vs. censorship?

Yet Twain was particular about his words. His letter in 1888 about the right word and the almost right one was "the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning."

zzyzzx says

Makes you think: after 8 years with the first black president, why all of the sudden must we remove all Confederate statues because of slavery? Why did Obama not champion this idea when he was in office?

Interesting point. Why now?

drBu says

Huck Finn ('Adventures of Huckleberry Finn') is the fourth most banned book in the US. A controversial new edition would replace 219 references to the 'N-word' with 'slave.' Historical accuracy vs. censorship?

Which completely misses the whole atmosphere of the times and the Book.

Well, let's remove Lenin and Margaret "Regenerating the Race" Sanger. Well, maybe not. Sanger wanted to limit immigration only to Europeans with a Trade or Good Education (not even poor people from Naples or County Claire).

I don't have a meme generator and am not going to fuck around with pictures, but there's plenty of crap on the alt-right. For example, Heather Heyer has been receiving death threats, since her daugher's funeral. You wouldn't know about it from reading patrick.net, which is essentially a compendium of all of the stupid things that someone on the left did. When you see what a person is obsessed with, you find out a lot about them.

YesYNot says

but there's plenty of crap on the alt-right

No one can deny that; however, these days around me the "official" idiocy is much more of the left-lunacy type. I work at a large university. Consequently, lunacy of left is more irritating simply because I come in contact with it much more. From right-wing lunacy, only the religious stuff is around in large amount and it is irritating as hell as well.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Interesting point. Why now?

It started after some idiot shot up a church in Charleston.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_Confederate_monuments_and_memorials

As of last fall, about 40-50% of voters thought that Trump was a racist or at least somewhat racist, and I think bout 2/3 of people between 18 and 30 thought so. So, any racial resentment we saw 2 years ago, I would expect to increase regardless of the media.

drBu says

these days around me the "official" idiocy is much more of the left-lunacy type. I work at a large university. Consequently, lunacy of left is more irritating simply because I come in contact with it much more.

I don't doubt it. I'm mostly responding to what I see on this board, and I find a whole shitload of it to be racist crap. Some of it (mostly the picture memes) is mind blowingly illogical. To avoid any confusion, I'll add that I find your contributions valuable and not racist although our views contrast as much as they overlap.

Even cemetery monuments are removed:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/madison-mayor-paul-soglin-orders-removal-of-confederate-monuments-in/article_0cd509e6-3b6b-56ab-b05c-c693d84de05d.html

This crosses from understandable to vile.

YesYNot says

I don't doubt it. I'm mostly responding to what I see on this board, and I find a whole shitload of it to be racist crap. Some of it (mostly the picture memes) is mind blowingly illogical. To avoid any confusion, I'll add that I find your contributions valuable and not racist although our views contrast as much as they overlap.

Thanks, I appreciate this. People agree 100% only in totalitarian societies so some amount of disagreement is natural, but if we are polite, listen to each other, and occasionally agree with the opponent then perhaps all of us will become more logical and I dare to say better humans.

jazz_music says

You know what?

If you have a town that owns a statue and a park, you can have a vote in that town and pretty much replace it or rename it to whatever is agreed upon by voting.

This is really nobody else' business. It is that simple!.

BOOM!

The side that loses will riot. If the city wants to remove them, let them do so quietly in the middle of the night.

They just destroyed a Peace Monument in Atlanta, and elsewhere as mentioned, ruined a Lincoln Statue.